Mini 745 - Moving Day Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[ZEEnon]

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Interesting statement, this. Kindly explain.

Oh, and:

unvote, vote: dejkha

by the way Plonky, he was quoting someone else .

Top of page 3 vote count:

Herodotus 2 (Tovarish, Zer0ph34r)
Erratus Apathos 2 (dejkha, ZEEnon)
killa seven 1 (don_johnson)
dejkha 1 (Herodotus)
ZEEnon 1 (Erratus Apathos)
don_johnson 1 (Jazzmyn)
Tovarish 1 (q21)
dejkha 1 (Plonky)

Not voting: killa seven, ac1983fan

With 12 still packing it takes 7 to lynch.

Note: this vote count should be accurate as of this post.
I will start checking for prods tomorrow.

[Erratus Apathos]

Unvote
Vote: ZEEnon

Four way ties suck. Wagons are the path to victory!

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Unvote

Vote: Erratus

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

Scum already know who town is and it's not uncommon for them to just get on a bandwagon. They just want town to lynch themselves, so hopping on a bandwagon because "[they] are the path to victory" is a little scummy.

Okay then. Where on earth did you get the idea that I know who town is?

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Interesting statement, this. Kindly explain.

Oh, and:

unvote, vote: dejkha

unvote

FOS: Plonky

I have no issue with him asking to explain himself, but voting him? I know we're still early on, but you unvoted just to vote for him on one thing he said in response to what I would consider pretty scummy behavior, regardless of when it happens.

This is a scummy post. AC says he agrees with dejkha that my behavior is scummy. So what does he do about it? Vote me, FOS me, or even question me? No, he does nothing about it. Sounds like not what a townie does when he sees suspicious behavior.

Instead, AC attacks Plonky for voting dejkha. It's a pretty nonsensical attack - he acts like voting for someone on flimsy evidence on page 2 is out of the ordinary. Moreover, the phrase "...you unvoted just to vote for him..." implies that he thinks a townie wouldn't abandon his random vote. Or at least that's the closest interpretation I could get out of this, he doesn't really explain at all why he thinks Plonky's vote is scummy. He looks more interested in defending dejkha than attacking Plonky.

i don't think i have to explain myself

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Serious voting time

Unvote
Vote: ac1983fan

[killa seven]

@killa seven: Please elaborate. If you already know that someone is scum, we'd like to hear why.

.

when did i say i knew who was scum? i said allmost everyone looks scummy.

[q21]

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Interesting statement, this. Kindly explain.

Oh, and:

unvote, vote: dejkha

by the way Plonky, he was quoting someone else .

Who was quoting someone else. Plonky's post contains a direct quote from dejkha. Post 40.

Also, if you genuinely suspect someone, as you seem to with you EA vote you do need to explain yourself.

[q21]

EBWOP: Oops, left the / out of the last quote tag...

Fixed

[Plonky]

Scum already know who town is and it's not uncommon for them to just get on a bandwagon. They just want town to lynch themselves, so hopping on a bandwagon because "[they] are the path to victory" is a little scummy.

Uh, well, that's all well and good, but how else does the game of mafia start? I'm very open to your ideas, but frankly the prospect of sitting around and singing 'kum-bay-ya' for 10 pages is

not

my idea of beneficial.

You do understand the benefits of bandwagonning, yes?

unvote
FOS: Plonky

I have no issue with him asking to explain himself, but voting him? I know we're still early on, but you unvoted just to vote for him on one thing he said in response to what I would consider pretty scummy behavior, regardless of when it happens.

I have a number of issues with this post:

1.) Your action: instead of placing a vote, you place a FoS, which doesn't really make sense. Your vote at the time was random on Jazzmyn, with the reasoning being that she was the first to confirm. Honestly, is that random reason more suspicious than what you saw me doing? Really, that makes no sense whatsoever in my eyes.

2.) Your words: you seem to agree with the bandwagonning ideas of dejkha. I have already made my opinion to this above, please respond to why you agree with him.

3.) Why are you critical of me moving my vote. It is, in my view, far preferential to using a FoS at this time.

Let me just draw you to my reason for voting ZEEnon:

His avatar is almost as cute as mine!

So you honestly think it is better for me to keep my vote on someone

for a random reason

than to use it in a way to express suspicion?

I would also like Zeenon to respond to what I said about dejkha.

[Plonky]

Uh, quote tag errorz.

Fixed

[dejkha]

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

That doesn't disproved what I said. It still stands.

Okay then. Where on earth did you get the idea that I know who town is?

I think you could be scum for bandwagoning just because you could. Hence I think you know who is town because you might be scum.

This is a scummy post. AC says he agrees with dejkha that my behavior is scummy. So what does he do about it? Vote me, FOS me, or even question me? No, he does nothing about it. Sounds like not what a townie does when he sees suspicious behavior.

Instead, AC attacks Plonky for voting dejkha. It's a pretty nonsensical attack - he acts like voting for someone on flimsy evidence on page 2 is out of the ordinary. Moreover, the phrase "...you unvoted just to vote for him..." implies that he thinks a townie wouldn't abandon his random vote. Or at least that's the closest interpretation I could get out of this, he doesn't really explain at all why he thinks Plonky's vote is scummy. He looks more interested in defending dejkha than attacking Plonky.

I'd also like AC to respond to this.

Uh, well, that's all well and good, but how else does the game of mafia start? I'm very open to your ideas,

but frankly the prospect of sitting around and singing 'kum-bay-ya' for 10 pages is

not

my idea of beneficial.

You do understand the benefits of bandwagonning, yes?

For my response was to why I'm making a discussion out of it, read the bolded.

[dejkha]

@killa seven: Please elaborate. If you already know that someone is scum, we'd like to hear why.

.

when did i say i knew who was scum? i said allmost everyone looks scummy.

Exactly, state the reasons you thought so. Say why you thought certain people were scum.

[ac1983fan]

Unvote
Vote: ZEEnon

Four way ties suck. Wagons are the path to victory!

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Unvote

Vote: Erratus

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

Scum already know who town is and it's not uncommon for them to just get on a bandwagon. They just want town to lynch themselves, so hopping on a bandwagon because "[they] are the path to victory" is a little scummy.

Okay then. Where on earth did you get the idea that I know who town is?

Wagons are the path to victory for scum. Especially when you're on that wagon just because you can be.

Interesting statement, this. Kindly explain.

Oh, and:

unvote, vote: dejkha

unvote

FOS: Plonky

I have no issue with him asking to explain himself, but voting him? I know we're still early on, but you unvoted just to vote for him on one thing he said in response to what I would consider pretty scummy behavior, regardless of when it happens.

This is a scummy post. AC says he agrees with dejkha that my behavior is scummy. So what does he do about it? Vote me, FOS me, or even question me? No, he does nothing about it. Sounds like not what a townie does when he sees suspicious behavior.

Instead, AC attacks Plonky for voting dejkha. It's a pretty nonsensical attack - he acts like voting for someone on flimsy evidence on page 2 is out of the ordinary. Moreover, the phrase "...you unvoted just to vote for him..." implies that he thinks a townie wouldn't abandon his random vote. Or at least that's the closest interpretation I could get out of this, he doesn't really explain at all why he thinks Plonky's vote is scummy. He looks more interested in defending dejkha than attacking Plonky.

i don't think i have to explain myself

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Serious voting time

Unvote
Vote: ac1983fan

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

Also,

By the way mod, I unvoted back on page two...

But I'll

unvote

again.[/b]

What are you talking about? I so updated that

[Plonky]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form.

I don't think it's bad form at all. I had one bit of evidence against dejkha. I had no evidence against my random vote. For me, one bit of evidence is enough to swap votes on page 2.

I really don't understand what you find suspicious about that.

[Erratus Apathos]

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

That doesn't disproved what I said. It still stands.

Like hell, it never stood to begin with! You just come in with some smartass "yeah it's victory, FOR SCUM!!!!! burn" that doesn't prove dick, and then when (despite the burden of proof being on you here, not me) I show that wagoning is in fact not victory for scum, thus crushing the nonexistent basis your shitty comeback had, all you say is "lol, no"? I couldn't fail that much if I tried.

Okay then. Where on earth did you get the idea that I know who town is?

I think you could be scum for bandwagoning just because you could. Hence I think you know who is town because you might be scum.

So I know who town is because I might be scum, and I might be scum because I know who town is. That's so circular that even circles say "

Damn

, that's circular."

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

Also,

By the way mod, I unvoted back on page two...

But I'll

unvote

again.[/b]

Why do you hate early voting? Do you think all early votes are scummy, or just Plonky's? Why is Plonky's question foolish?

Why I switched to ZEEnon is simple. Spreading out the random votes evenly is the fastest method of killing a game there is. If nobody stands out, there's nothing for the town to jump off of. Everyone just sits around doing nothing, waiting for someone else to do something scummy. BOOOORING. On the other hand, randomly wagoning someone is always an excellent way to start the real discussion. I've never seen it fail. Hence, when the vote was a four-way tie, I broke it up and put one player in the spotlight.

[q21]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form.

And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

Also,

By the way mod, I unvoted back on page two...

But I'll

unvote

again.[/b]

The underlined bit. It's bollocks. The rest isn't particularly good either.

One bit of evidence >> No bits of evidence

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Or was he supposed to just sit around and wait for more.

[q21]

How exactly is an L-4 random vote the path to victory for scum? If I'm scum and ZEEnon is town, I would need to convince four players to vote for him,

without evidence against him

, to get a mislynch. Some path to victory that is.

That doesn't disproved what I said. It still stands.

There was never any reason to disprove anything you said. It wasn't applicable tot his point in the game.

[don_johnson]

vote: ac1983fan

i don't get it. you are suspicious of someone for voting with one piece of evidence. are you FoSing anyone else for this?

dejkha: if you are town, please note you are simply being stubborn and that is not going to help.

to all: if you are using quotes, please get the tags right. i am hella confused.

erratus: i think you are misunderstanding what dej said about you knowing who town is. it's not circular logic. you are missing the word

if

. it could apply to any one of us.

if you are scum then you know who town is.

its fact.

[Herodotus]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

It looks like you are confusing Erratus Apathos with Plonky. EA was the one who placed the third vote (on Zeenon,) and Plonky was the one who asked dejkah about the response.

Besides what Erratus Apathos said in post 51 and Plonky said in post 55, I can't understand ac1983fan's decision to use a FoS instead of a vote. Plonky had no votes at the time, but acfan is unwilling to place the first (L-6) vote? There may also be significance to his unvoting right before FoSing, but I don't know what it is.

At this point, though, Zeenon is more interesting to me. Two OMGUS votes against random votes? And calling something obvious that isn't?

Vote: Zeenon

FoS: acfan

@killer seven: You're right, you didn't claim to be certain. But the request for more detail stands.

[dejkha]

Like hell, it never stood to begin with! You just come in with some smartass "yeah it's victory, FOR SCUM!!!!! burn" that doesn't prove dick, and then when (despite the burden of proof being on you here, not me) I show that wagoning is in fact not victory for scum, thus crushing the nonexistent basis your shitty comeback had, all you say is "lol, no"? I couldn't fail that much if I tried.

Congratulations. You weren't trying and you pulled it off. That's the key.

So I know who town is because I might be scum, and I might be scum because I know who town is. That's so circular that even circles say "Damn, that's circular."

Care to quote me on where I said you know who town is and that's why you're scum? I'm quite interested.

dejkha: if you are town, please note you are simply being stubborn and that is not going to help.

Stubborn about what?

[ac1983fan]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

Also,

By the way mod, I unvoted back on page two...

But I'll

unvote

again.[/b]

Why do you hate early voting? Do you think all early votes are scummy, or just Plonky's? Why is Plonky's question foolish?

Why I switched to ZEEnon is simple. Spreading out the random votes evenly is the fastest method of killing a game there is. If nobody stands out, there's nothing for the town to jump off of. Everyone just sits around doing nothing, waiting for someone else to do something scummy. BOOOORING. On the other hand, randomly wagoning someone is always an excellent way to start the real discussion. I've never seen it fail. Hence, when the vote was a four-way tie, I broke it up and put one player in the spotlight.

I think that early voting with one piece of evidence (which, I might add, was particularly flawed) is particularly scummy. He was voting someone for questioning a scummy act. That's silly.

[ac1983fan]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form.

And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

Also,

By the way mod, I unvoted back on page two...

But I'll

unvote

again.[/b]

The underlined bit. It's bollocks. The rest isn't particularly good either.

One bit of evidence >> No bits of evidence

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

Or was he supposed to just sit around and wait for more.

That doesn't mean that it's alright to vote because of something silly like that. Why vote for someone who was questioning a scummy act...

[ac1983fan]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form.

I don't think it's bad form at all. I had one bit of evidence against dejkha. I had no evidence against my random vote. For me, one bit of evidence is enough to swap votes on page 2.

I really don't understand what you find suspicious about that.

You voted someone who was questioning a scummy act. And that was all the reason you had to vote for him. Don't always rush to vote, a quick day one will almost always lead to a town loss.

[ac1983fan]

I wasn't defending anyone, I was simply stating that I thought plonky's question was foolish. He took one bit of evidence, and decided to make a vote on it. I know it's only page 3, but it's still bad form. And I figured that dehjka had already covered why you were suspicious, but I wasn't about to vote for you over one thing, because that's exactly the thing which plonky did that I was FOSing him for. But to clarify, I found the fact that you saw that there were several people with two votes, and the unvoted to vote for somebody who already had several votes on him, while saying wagon's are the path to victory. I think dehjka was jumping the gun on voting for you, zeenon's vote is clearly OMGUS, however, please explain your reasoning, if any, for changing your vote the way you did.

It looks like you are confusing Erratus Apathos with Plonky. EA was the one who placed the third vote (on Zeenon,) and Plonky was the one who asked dejkah about the response.

Besides what Erratus Apathos said in post 51 and Plonky said in post 55, I can't understand ac1983fan's decision to use a FoS instead of a vote. Plonky had no votes at the time, but acfan is unwilling to place the first (L-6) vote? There may also be significance to his unvoting right before FoSing, but I don't know what it is.

At this point, though, Zeenon is more interesting to me. Two OMGUS votes against random votes? And calling something obvious that isn't?

Vote: Zeenon

FoS: acfan

@killer seven: You're right, you didn't claim to be certain. But the request for more detail stands.

Nope, I was responding to EA's staatements towards me. I was FOSing plonky in regards to his response to dehjka's response to EA.

The reason why I didn't vote is because I don't think there is enough evidence to make a real vote yet. I unvoted because my vote on page 1 was, like all others, a joke vote. It was page 2. It is no longer the time for joke votes by page 2.

[q21]

That doesn't mean that it's alright to vote because of something silly like that. Why vote for someone who was questioning a scummy act...

If you don't believe EA's act was scummy then its a perfectly good reason.

[ac1983fan]

That doesn't mean that it's alright to vote because of something silly like that. Why vote for someone who was questioning a scummy act...

If you don't believe EA's act was scummy then its a perfectly good reason.

I guess, but I assumed it was universally scummy to vote like that.
Guess I should remember what they say about assuming:
it makes an

ass

out of

u

and

me

.

[q21]

Put it like this:

To be scummy an action has to be intentionally beneficial to the scum. Were that the case EA would have had to be voting someone to L-4 with in the hope that that led to a quick-myslynch on the second (or soon thereafter) page of the game. - Not likely to happen.

To be townie his action would be with the intent of helping the town. Applying this to EA's bandwagon vote he would be trying to spark off some meaningful discussion amongst the town. Even if this discussion is about that very vote its still a positive move from random voting.

All in all, since EA's vote was the catalyst in moving toward constructive town play and, so far as I can tell, was always intended that way, I think it was a more townie act than scummy.

[Zer0ph34r]

Unvote

And people don't want to make an ass out of u?