Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Glork]

It's in your assumption that the "Imperial threat"

stops

with Casear. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, because I feel like I'm talking in circles.

[Elmo]

Well, I never thought that the Imperial threat == Caesar; like I said, I thought up a theory and felt it was flawed, and wanted input from other people to see if they could figure out what was wrong with it. It's obvious that Caesar represents at least part of the imperial threat, but I couldn't think of anything other than Caesar that would fit the description.

To be specific, I agree that the idea "The Imperial Threat must be exactly equal to Caesar" is wrong and a bad place to go, but that's not what I thought or what I said. I basically said "I don't understand what Imperial Threat can exist without Caesar, does anyone have an answer"? which is answered very neatly by what you just posted, for example. What I believed was

necessarily

true about the setup was 100% right, as far as I can see.

I simply couldn't come up with a way that the scum could reasonably be handicapped for there to be three of them. Ironically, I did actually consider something similar but less harsh than the real setup, which was essentially two goons without a kill plus one goon who could kill; I just rejected it outright. So I felt that either

So as far as I can see, we've never disagreed on that. With respect to flavour, that gets a bit hairy (I don't know exactly what you consider flavour), but it's certainly reasonable to investigate the idea that Imperial Threat = Caesar based off what I said, which is what I did. I mean, from my point of view, you were pretty much outright lying about what I said, I assumed that was just because you were scum. This would be simpler if you said what you actually believed?

[Elmo]

It's pretty obvious that A = B.

This was poorly worded, it means "it's obvious that A is strongly related to B but does not necessarily constitute the whole of B but nonetheless A = B is an interesting idea to explore that may provoke new, helpful ideas."

To be clear, I never really settled on anything related to the setup beyond we probably had two scum and charter was a pro-town power role who was useful in some unknown way. The reason I settled on two scum was that a) handicapped scum are extremely rare, I've never seen a game with them before and b) I simply couldn't come up with a way to handicap them that I felt was okay.

But this was tangential anyway, as far as I can see. My real interest is if anyone can come up with even a viable shot at winning from my position if dahill isn't the GF and I don't mislynch Yos. I'm not just curious with respect to this game, it seems to be a recurring situation; you can know who the scum are, but sometimes it's pretty much impossible to build a case because they pretty much haven't needed to do anything. So what do you do beyond call them names? Especially when most people (inexplicably) seemed to think Glork/Incog were town. I'm not moaning, I am honestly struggling to see what I "should" have done.

[Glork]

One suggestion I have might be to make specific people talk about specific aspects of your suspect.

"Charter, what do you think of X and Y that Glork said? How do you think this relates to Glork's position here?"

Forcing people to pay attention to what you want to talk about is a good way of opening eyes and ears, and if they try to blow it off or answer in a way you don't expect, you keep grilling to seek more information.

[Incognito]

Incog was good, though. I thought he was scum and tried to make a case on him day 2ish, but there was just nothing there that would have been convincing.

This actually worried me at first. I was quite shocked/relieved when you seemed to just drop it and was even more shocked/relieved during Day 3 when you began agreeing with some of the points I was making.

[Elmo]

Hm, that's probably helpful advice in general. It's more like here, I figured X was scum because they did Y which I consider very scummy. But pushing Y as a reason to lynch them will just fail horribly, and there aren't any usable reasons out there. It's not at all hard for scum to avoid doing stuff that will get them lynched in this kind of situation. I mean there is other stuff factoring in, but that's the main thing, I think, sometimes there's nothing to build a case on. That just leaves name-calling, really.

Honestly, the best success I've had in that kind of situation is just to play like scum and make shit up. Lie, cheat, steal etc. But that seemed a bad idea here.

[Yosarian2]

Hm, that's probably helpful advice in general. It's more like here, I figured X was scum because they did Y which I consider very scummy. But pushing Y as a reason to lynch them will just fail horribly, and there aren't any usable reasons out there. It's not at all hard for scum to avoid doing stuff that will get them lynched in this kind of situation. I mean there is other stuff factoring in, but that's the main thing, I think, sometimes there's nothing to build a case on. That just leaves name-calling, really.

Honestly, the best success I've had in that kind of situation is just to play like scum and make shit up. Lie, cheat, steal etc. But that seemed a bad idea here.

(nods) Yeah, I was in the same place with Glork day 2; I knew he had acted differently then he would have as town, but I had nothing to make a case on. With most people, I might have BS'd something and tried to get them run up, but the odds of that working when going after Glork are probably pretty small, especally in a group with a skill level this high.

Also, I should quote this:

So Glork can single-handedly get you lynched without ever explaining why you're a good lynch. That's amazing, does he also win Connect Four in three moves and stare down books until they give him the information he wants?

just to point out that that was, actaully, pretty much exactally what happend.

[Patrick]

I thought calling out the case he made on Corio was a good start. I'd definitely throw in the way too heavy handed approach with Xtoxm, but I guess we differ there. There were plenty of meta differences, but that's quite hard to persuade people with if they don't feel it, unless they're prepared to read alot of text, which people here weren't.

I suppose we could ask those who were town who read Xtoxm as town, what did you think of Glork pushing it with almost no backing up or second guessing at all? Did you just think he was being silly, and if so, why did you think that?

[charter]

I didn't think Glork pushing it was any more suspicious than anyone else pushing Xtoxm. He manages to get himself lynched on day one with regularity, I've seen scum and town do it to him, so I just ignored a lot of the Xtoxm scandal and tried going with those that were scummy but without their degree of involvement pushing Xtoxm (like dahill's flip flop). I thought it bad how Glork hammered then immediately said he wished he hadn't and his and Yos's claiming dahill was town with no reason, but I didn't think it meant much until we knew dahill's alignment.

Also, If Xtoxm were ever scum, I've never seen this, but I think he wouldn't act so anti town day one, and that would get him lynched anyway.

[Ether]

Logs:

(3:34:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: So yeah, we're town.
(3:35:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: I was almost excited back there. ¬_¬
(3:36:41 PM) patrickgower2006: ^_^

[...]

(4:01:02 PM) patrickgower2006: look at those two guys who haven't confirmed. Blatantly scumbuddies
(4:04:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Don't let him fool you. That was Patrick posting as Incognito. No. There is no Incognito. It's a ventriloquist act." ¬_¬
(4:05:09 PM) patrickgower2006: brilliant
(4:05:44 PM) patrickgower2006: what's the imperial threat to the republic mean
(4:05:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Uh.
(4:06:23 PM) patrickgower2006: no, it'll be more than just uh
(4:06:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm guessing Caesar.
(4:06:27 PM) patrickgower2006: yes
(4:07:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: Because, y'know, despite being a conspiracy, we don't appear to have scumbuddies, and that looks like the sample role PM.
(4:07:30 PM) patrickgower2006: it does
(4:07:44 PM) patrickgower2006: weird though, last time, the conspiracy was mafia and Caesar the SK
(4:07:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: "The Republic is on the brink of annihilation, not at the hands of its enemies, but through the ambitions of one man - Julius Caesar. But there is a conspiracy brewing which threatens the dictator's dreams, and his life."
(4:09:56 PM) patrickgower2006: only one scum to catch this time. Looks like they're going easy on us ^_^
(4:10:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: I suppose we should Wiki Caesar...find out who's working for him.
(4:10:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, Caesar invented the clone machine.
(4:10:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's not that easy.
(4:10:20 PM) patrickgower2006: I did that when playing julius caesar mafia
(4:10:27 PM) patrickgower2006: I remember none of it
(4:10:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh fuck.
(4:10:36 PM) patrickgower2006: except maybe his wife
(4:10:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: Does this mean that we retain some trace of Caesarness?
(4:10:59 PM) patrickgower2006: I am honestly not Caesar
(4:11:06 PM) patrickgower2006: any craplogic is unintentional
(4:11:09 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(4:11:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well...
(4:11:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: I did read the role PM first, so I'll believe you.
(4:11:38 PM) patrickgower2006: phew
(4:12:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: "A politician of the populares tradition, he formed an unofficial triumvirate with Marcus Licinius Crassus and Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus which dominated Roman politics for several years, opposed in the Roman Senate by optimates like Marcus Porcius Cato and Marcus Calpurnius Bibulus."
(4:13:20 PM) patrickgower2006: well, he certainly has enough cronies to form a mafia
(4:13:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: So those second two are good guys?
(4:13:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not gonna lie, this flavor is confusing to me, too.
(4:13:54 PM) patrickgower2006: it's weird that a conspiracy against him would be the majority
(4:13:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(4:14:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't think there's anything to read into it, though.
(4:14:54 PM) patrickgower2006: OGML not that smart? You're insulting the guy now? =P
(4:15:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: You are putting words into my keyboard.
(4:15:20 PM) patrickgower2006: after he allows us to double head as well
(4:15:24 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm shocked
(4:15:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: >=(
(4:15:33 PM) patrickgower2006: >=(
(4:15:46 PM) patrickgower2006: vote me and you are also voting yourself
(4:15:49 PM) patrickgower2006: :P
(4:16:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think you're acting silly, but I'm not so sure it's a scumtell.
(4:16:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: Especially not for you. :P
(4:16:42 PM) patrickgower2006: silence cheeky girl
(4:16:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: *is silent*
(4:16:54 PM) patrickgower2006: good girl
(4:16:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pfft.
(4:17:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Caesar had two sisters, both called Julia." How does that work? X_X
(4:17:50 PM) patrickgower2006: can sisters not have the same name?
(4:18:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: It seems like a bad idea.
(4:18:05 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(4:18:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: Julia, Julia and Julius.
(4:19:09 PM) patrickgower2006: Julius Caesar, the old time geezer. Got his nose stuck in a lemon squeezer
(4:19:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: I like this tactic of spreading propaganda.
(4:19:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: WAIT.
(4:20:00 PM) patrickgower2006: DOWN WITH CAESAR
(4:20:05 PM) patrickgower2006: WE ARE REPUBLIC
(4:20:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Old time geezer."
(4:20:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: So it's Incognito. ._.
(4:20:24 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito is indeed scum in this game
(4:20:40 PM) patrickgower2006: probably Glork and yos2 as well
(4:21:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Aww.
(4:21:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Googling your poem, it appears to have been his wife, not his nose.
(4:22:13 PM) patrickgower2006: see how my words get scrutinised
(4:22:20 PM) patrickgower2006: even by those that know my alignment
(4:23:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: You need to understand your facts. ._.
(4:25:08 PM) patrickgower2006: did xtoxm say he lurks as town now?
(4:25:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I believe he did.
(4:25:26 PM) patrickgower2006: damn
(4:25:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't even care. If he lurks, we lynch his ass anyway.
(4:26:21 PM) patrickgower2006: even if he's town?
(4:26:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, if he's confirmed town, then no.
(4:26:58 PM) patrickgower2006: 2 week deadlines. Can't have lurkers
(5:03:43 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

(2:05:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well this Coriolanus guy sucks.
(2:11:03 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed on.
(2:11:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: "(2:05:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well this Coriolanus guy sucks."
(2:11:32 PM) patrickgower2006: patrickgower2006 (19:06:24): yes
patrickgower2006 (19:07:20): this is stolen wireless from neighbours, could go any minute
patrickgower2006 (19:08:04): we cant get online via the desktop either now
(2:11:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Somewhat uncanny that he missed Yosarian2, let alone the rest of us, but anyway.
(2:12:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: X_X
(2:12:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm at the train station; I'll be out in 45 minutes or so.
(2:12:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Charter seems townish.
(2:12:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: I get this sense that there's someone waiting for me to blitz him, but I'm not sure who.
(2:12:59 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:13:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glork is odd.
(2:13:14 PM) patrickgower2006: it might have to be you early, if my lack of access continues
(2:13:21 PM) patrickgower2006: I've skimmed it
(2:13:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm rereading it now.
(2:13:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: If in doubt, I'll probably vote Glork.
(2:13:47 PM) patrickgower2006: I was vaguely going to vote xtoxm but then he got like 4 or 5 or something
(2:14:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: I just understood what Glork was trying to say. Eh.
(2:14:42 PM) patrickgower2006: where
(2:15:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Also, the fact that I only FoSed Yos clearly indicates that I'm not convinced dahill is town. "

[...]

(2:20:52 PM) patrickgower2006: coriolanus must be an alt or something
(2:21:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...probably.
(2:21:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm typing a post where I ask him where he'd heard of Glork and not the rest of us.
(2:22:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Erratus bugs me, but I think it's the same kind of twitch all randomvoters give me.
(2:23:00 PM) patrickgower2006: as far as I know, his vote for Glork isn't random
(2:23:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: I just saw his 13.
(2:23:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(2:23:15 PM) patrickgower2006: I though it looked like he was voting him on a slip
(2:23:50 PM) patrickgower2006: the assumption that dahill is town. Which is typical early reaching, but then I don't really get that b it of Glork;s that you quoted
(2:24:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: He FoSed him on a slip...then voted on something stupid later.
(2:24:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glork justified it, sort of; I originally thought that his comment was a complete non-sequitur.
(2:25:01 PM) patrickgower2006: I still don't get the second comment
(2:25:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm not sure where the bear/octopus stuff came from.
(2:25:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Which second comment?
(2:25:14 PM) patrickgower2006: it's called joking
(2:25:16 PM) patrickgower2006: :P
(2:25:17 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(2:25:23 PM) patrickgower2006: the one you quoted in here
(2:25:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(2:25:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: The emphasis was on FoSing as opposed to voting, not avoiding Dahill somehow.
(2:25:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(2:26:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Now that I think about it, that's still a non-sequitur.
(2:26:18 PM) patrickgower2006: well yes, I thought his first post sufficed
(2:27:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Tuberk's totally irrevelant Page 2 joke was funny.
(2:27:27 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:27:31 PM) patrickgower2006: confirmed town
(2:27:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, that's Charter.
(2:27:49 PM) patrickgower2006: what did charter do
(2:28:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: He admitted out loud that he was doing research on Caesar.
(2:28:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: We did it, out of curiosity, but scum would want to do the research for a fakeclaim. I'm not sure it'd occur to them that town would also look.
(2:29:13 PM) patrickgower2006: they'd be more self conscious
(2:29:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(2:30:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: What does the acronym IOW mean?
(2:30:57 PM) patrickgower2006: I wondered that too
(2:31:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: "In Other Words?"
(2:31:28 PM) patrickgower2006: ah
(2:31:29 PM) patrickgower2006: yes
(2:31:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(2:32:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm voting Glork.
(2:32:07 PM) patrickgower2006: what for?
(2:32:27 PM) patrickgower2006: overexplaining or something
(2:32:36 PM) patrickgower2006: because I don't put any weight in it as a slip
(2:32:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Partially that, partially I think it's uncanny the way the Xtoxmwagon built up without anyone at all acknowledging it.
(2:33:16 PM) patrickgower2006: what does that have to do with Glork?
(2:34:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: It just seems odd that no one except Erratus really brought it up and now they're looking for a bandwagon to kick the game off.
(2:35:00 PM) patrickgower2006: it's as good as anything I guess
(2:35:31 PM) patrickgower2006: I seem unable to analyse properly when on less than perfect access. damn
(2:35:33 PM) patrickgower2006: X_X
(2:36:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Charter is townish. I would be curious to know where Coriolanus learned about Glork and not the rest of us.

It is now time to place an inevitable non-random non-arbitrary

vote: Glork

.

Sincerely,
-Ether"
(2:36:08 PM) patrickgower2006: I take it we're signing our posts
(2:36:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Should I elaborate more on the nonrandomness of it?
(2:36:47 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno
(2:36:58 PM) patrickgower2006: I imagine you'll be explaining it shortly
(2:37:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Most likely.
(2:37:12 PM) patrickgower2006: might as well see who asks
(2:37:23 PM) patrickgower2006: or whjatever the normal reason is for not explaininh
(2:37:23 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(2:38:22 PM) patrickgower2006: can you still see this? my connection feels like it's failing
(2:38:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hi.
(2:38:46 PM) patrickgower2006: veeerrrry slow loading up this page
(2:39:58 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(2:40:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: Posting now. Anything else?
(2:40:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: (If you're actually away, I'm taking that as a "no.")
(2:42:35 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

[...]

(7:01:43 PM) patrickgower2006: damn, this game has been growing
(7:02:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah...I just got on.
(7:02:44 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't really think charter is particularly townish or Glork particularly voteworthy
(7:02:47 PM) patrickgower2006: X_X
(7:04:34 PM) patrickgower2006: so why does Glork have a vested interest in discerning our alignment? Is it just the whole, "double heads have an advantage" thing
(7:04:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: I haven't even caught up yet.
(7:05:15 PM) patrickgower2006: fair enough
(7:06:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Sincerely,
-Ether" I am keeping a list of signature lines I will use exactly once.

[...]

(7:11:24 PM) patrickgower2006: I do like the avatar you got us btw
(7:11:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Thanks.
(7:11:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: I was worried the blue splashy part was kinda tacky.
(7:12:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Since you're saying this, I won't point out what it says. ¬_¬
(7:12:07 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(7:12:13 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll work it out later
(7:13:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Also, hi ether. Just wondering; why'd you make an alt and then tell us who you were in like your first post?" Heh.
(7:13:40 PM) patrickgower2006: that's excellent
(7:13:49 PM) patrickgower2006: especially with our sig
(7:13:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: I guess he blocks signatures.
(7:14:07 PM) patrickgower2006: and didn't read queue
(7:15:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: And, to a lesser degree, doesn't wonder why I'm going around with a Symbolic avatar and a screenname that sounds like you.
(7:15:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I'm not really sure why you're getting so defensive about this, either." -Yosarian. Curious.
(7:16:01 PM) patrickgower2006: that's to coriwhatsit right
(7:16:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(7:16:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: To be fair, I'm not sure if Yosarian is insinuating it as a scumtell.
(7:16:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: I like defensiveness, at times.
(7:16:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know Yosarian isn't thrilled with it as a tell.
(7:17:17 PM) patrickgower2006: didn't he say in the same post that he isn't reading much into the guy
(7:17:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(7:17:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: He might later.
(7:17:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm still reading.
(7:18:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: "This last page or two has been somewhat confusing." No it hasn't.
(7:18:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Incogscum. ._.
(7:18:26 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, I can't really disagree
(7:18:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: Psh.
(7:20:35 PM) patrickgower2006: corio is weird. He talks like a noob.
(7:20:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(7:23:22 PM) patrickgower2006: this thing is a distraction, I think
(7:23:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: Definitely.
(7:23:30 PM) patrickgower2006: not that I have any better ideas, admittedly
(7:32:34 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork misinterprets your vote for him as OMGUS. That's funny how he did almost the same in satin doll
(7:33:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: He's just saying that.
(7:33:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: He knows it's not OMGUS.
(7:33:13 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(7:37:10 PM) patrickgower2006: "I think it's irrelevant who he is as long as he doesn't get so caught up about hiding the secret of who he is it ends up looking like he's hiding another secret (is scum). " this line was kind of weird
(7:38:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: I agree with it, actually, though I guess it's kinda weird if Corio is scum.
(7:38:38 PM) patrickgower2006: I agree with it too, it just seems to assume he's town
(7:39:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(7:41:54 PM) patrickgower2006: yos2 and dahill are scum
(7:42:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: I could go for Yosarian.
(7:42:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: He should know better.
(7:43:19 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, I don't have much read of anybody. We don't even know he's pushing it as a tell
(7:43:33 PM) patrickgower2006: he could be trying to see if catches on, however
(7:45:59 PM) patrickgower2006: so what is Glork on about? Do you know why he has a vested interest in determining or alignment?
(7:46:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think Primate's got it; he just hates doubleheads.
(7:46:43 PM) patrickgower2006: so it doesn't serve any productive purpose
(7:46:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: Doubt it.
(7:47:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Kinda refreshing, not to have the full extent of my meta as a crutch.
(7:47:15 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(7:47:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: I mean, Glork managed to misread you in 594. :P
(7:47:24 PM) patrickgower2006: you're weighed down by my outdated meta
(8:02:16 PM) patrickgower2006: alright, I'd better be getting to bed
(8:02:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: *waves*
(8:02:25 PM) patrickgower2006: goodnight
(8:03:54 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

(5:52:48 PM) patrickgower2006: now its getting slightly interesting
(5:53:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: I sort of wonder if Glork's early thing about the bear was a breadcrumb.
(5:53:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: But anyway.
(5:53:24 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:53:38 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not a Xtoxm fan
(5:55:09 PM) patrickgower2006: I sort of wonder if Glork's lynch-1 like that could be a space monkey's type stunt where he'd explain it away with the typical stock defence, if someone accidentally hammered, but mostly he seems like town. Meh
(5:55:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(5:55:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm kind of ignoring Xtoxm.
(5:56:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think the best way to deal with him and Corio both is to leave them alone and see what they do around other people.
(5:56:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: The Xtoxmwagon feels like a distraction.
(5:56:18 PM) patrickgower2006: from what?
(5:56:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Just...
(5:56:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: It seems totally irrelevent to everything else happening.
(5:56:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Like, "Okay, we gotta get this game rolling with a wagon now!"
(5:57:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: It already is rolling.
(5:57:11 PM) patrickgower2006: xtoxms responses just remind me of how he was as scum in newbie 581
(5:57:22 PM) patrickgower2006: I suppose maybe he's changed a bit since then
(5:57:36 PM) patrickgower2006: but I've never actually seen him as one of these unhelpful guys when town
(5:57:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(5:57:46 PM) patrickgower2006: I wouldn't lump him in with corio
(5:58:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, I know.
(5:58:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: But that's how I feel I can best read him.
(5:58:37 PM) patrickgower2006: I think corio is either pissed off at being discovered so quickly as an alt, or pissed off because he's telling the truth and not believed. I wonder what dahill finds "off" about it
(5:59:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: He's just sheeping on Yosarian.
(5:59:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: (shrug)
(5:59:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: I wonder what Yosarian's thinking, too.
(6:00:14 PM) patrickgower2006: so the corio thing is a distraction, the xtox thing is a distraction? lol
(6:00:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(6:00:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: But there's more stuff to read in the reactions to Corio.,
(6:01:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: I worded myself wrong; it was a waste of time to take that approach on Corio, but it's still influenced my opinions toward other people's alignments.
(6:01:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Xtoxm...not really.
(6:01:13 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork presumably doesn't lik tuber for hardly reacting to something designed to incite reaction
(6:01:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Filter Tuberk.
(6:01:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: I agree with Glork.
(6:01:33 PM) patrickgower2006: I have#
(6:01:35 PM) patrickgower2006: 3 posts
(6:02:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: First one a joke. Middle one sheeped on me, except, y'know, I actually did stuff. Third...actually, that did kinda say something.
(6:02:57 PM) patrickgower2006: cpu
(6:03:47 PM) patrickgower2006: why vote assmaster
(6:03:48 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(6:05:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: 87.
(6:05:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...shit, now I don't want to lynch Tuberk.
(6:06:07 PM) patrickgower2006: why would we lynch tuberk
(6:06:17 PM) patrickgower2006: that other newbie hasn't contributed anything either
(6:06:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: Rally?
(6:06:26 PM) patrickgower2006: but we're not even 48 hours in
(6:07:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: Incognito's weird.
(6:07:22 PM) patrickgower2006: just a little
(6:08:02 PM) patrickgower2006: I'd rather wait a while before doing anything there. He's often like that very early on
(6:08:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(6:09:57 PM) patrickgower2006: charter hasn't said anything either yet. I don't really get why two people demanded a post from me specifically
(6:10:22 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll do this one
(6:10:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think it's just Glork's paranoia toward doubleheading kicking in.
(6:10:42 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork is fine. Incognito, eh
(6:10:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Okay, from me:
(6:11:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ask Yosarian what he's expecting out of Corio.
(6:11:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ask thoughts on my dahill vote.
(6:11:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: You can add my opinion about the Xtoxmwagon, too.
(6:11:48 PM) patrickgower2006: I was going to ask dahill what he finds alignment telling about corio's reactions. because he;s repeated like 3 or 4 times that it's just weird or off
(6:11:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(6:12:07 PM) patrickgower2006: which do we ask
(6:12:09 PM) patrickgower2006: both?
(6:12:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yours.
(6:12:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Though you can note the lack of reactions as well.
(6:12:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wait, yeah, both.
(6:12:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Dahill first.
(6:13:10 PM) patrickgower2006: so am I put, I don't much like xtoxm, his responses remind me of how he played as scum before, but my other head doesn't agree with me again X_X
(6:15:02 PM) patrickgower2006: Corio overreacting doesn't do much for me either way: I'd say either he's an alt who's annoyed that everyone's worked it out so easily, or he's frustrated because he's telling the truth and not believed. dahill, can you elaborate on what feels off or alignment-telling to you?

Glork seems ok so far. Not a fan of Xtoxm's responses to being probed, which reminds me a fair bit of the unhelpful Xtoxm-scum I've played with; unfortunately it seems I don't have agreement with my other head on that one, again :P
(6:16:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: I wouldn't say I disagree...
(6:16:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's kinda the wagon thing.
(6:16:44 PM) patrickgower2006: do you think his reactions look scummy?
(6:17:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...hmm.
(6:17:14 PM) patrickgower2006: well, not meant as a leading question
(6:17:19 PM) patrickgower2006: just my opinion
(6:17:26 PM) patrickgower2006: based on what little he's done, that is
(6:17:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Kind of, but I think that's far from the simplest way to read him.
(6:17:45 PM) patrickgower2006: whats the other way again?
(6:20:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: See his activity toward other people.
(6:20:53 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't really understand, isn't that what I just observed?
(6:21:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well...yeah.
(6:21:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: But I'd give him more time.
(6:21:29 PM) patrickgower2006: you say we just act like nothing happened?
(6:21:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well...
(6:21:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: With a bandwagon this far, pretty much. ¬_¬
(6:22:34 PM) patrickgower2006: isn't ignoring the xtoxm thing what you just found tuber scummy for?
(6:23:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(6:23:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: More the reactions to the Corio stuff.
(6:23:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: He reacted to the Xtoxm wagon.
(6:23:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: I applaud him.
(6:23:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wait, what?
(6:24:10 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, what?
(6:24:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: "(6:21:29 PM) patrickgower2006: you say we just act like nothing happened?" Did you mean toward Xtoxm or what?
(6:24:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh, just post. ¬_¬
(6:24:36 PM) patrickgower2006: towards xtoxm
(6:25:28 PM) patrickgower2006: I just didn't really want to get stuck trying to post an opinion that isn't mine as though it is mine
(6:25:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Nah, no pressure.
(6:25:58 PM) patrickgower2006: ok, I'll just put we slightly disagree on that
(6:29:33 PM) patrickgower2006: yeah, I do like this avatar
(6:29:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: :P
(6:29:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: That word isn't "Town."
(6:30:05 PM) patrickgower2006: scum?
(6:30:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(6:31:09 PM) patrickgower2006: NEUTRAL
(6:31:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: That's not four letters.
(6:31:23 PM) patrickgower2006: no kidding
(6:33:05 PM) patrickgower2006: what dyou think of the putting xtoxm at lynch-1 without warning
(6:33:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh. Xtoxm was selfvoting.
(6:33:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think Glork was just posturing to make him react. I don't mind.
(6:34:58 PM) patrickgower2006: I wonder if I'd realise if Glork is scum

[...]

(6:40:34 PM) patrickgower2006: "it's not necessarily alignment-telling but just the idea of overreacting to this to type of accusation seems strange to me." meh
(6:41:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: CPU.
(6:41:04 PM) patrickgower2006: mm
(6:41:10 PM) patrickgower2006: that was dahills reply
(6:41:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Good thing we're voting him.
(6:41:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm, I could have put "CPU" into the avatar, too.
(6:41:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Maybe in gold text to round it out.
(6:41:51 PM) patrickgower2006: sure
(6:42:02 PM) patrickgower2006: he didn't really say anything there
(6:43:15 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(6:57:48 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.
(7:30:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I agree. Also, every time I read this name I just see pathetic, you should have thrown some more letters in there." Heh.
(7:31:02 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(7:31:26 PM) patrickgower2006: CPU
(7:31:47 PM) patrickgower2006: I said put a k on the end
(7:31:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah, but that would've been tacky.
(7:32:36 PM) patrickgower2006: so yos2 does actually find corio scummy
(7:34:32 PM) patrickgower2006: BouncyElmo (00:35:03): honestly the hosting people need to be taken out and shot
BouncyElmo (00:35:06): what is this bullshit
(7:35:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: But if they died we wouldn't have a host. ._.
(7:35:18 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(7:35:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: I am scared that it has escalated to a point where Elmo is advocating violence. ._.
(7:36:30 PM) patrickgower2006: is it still bluehost
(7:36:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(7:37:07 PM) patrickgower2006: not to be confused with bluesoul
(7:38:05 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito agrees with me
(7:38:05 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(7:38:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: I like the things he put into questions.
(7:39:10 PM) patrickgower2006: see, I told you he was just weird naturally
(7:39:12 PM) patrickgower2006: ;P
(7:39:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: I didn't disagree.
(7:39:53 PM) patrickgower2006: I know
(7:41:30 PM) patrickgower2006: so does yos2 use overreacting as a scumtell?
(7:42:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't know.
(7:42:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know he hates "defensiveness."
(7:42:21 PM) patrickgower2006: I know, so do I, but I guess he can draw a distinction

[...]

(3:26:47 AM) patrickgower2006: just quickly looking, dahill's tuber vote is weird
(3:27:08 AM) patrickgower2006: surely like both his reasons apply to other people too
(3:27:26 AM) CaffieneDeity: I still need to force myself through my other games. ¬_¬
(3:27:32 AM) patrickgower2006: agreed
(3:28:05 AM) patrickgower2006: but "voting assmaster for no reason" is weak sauce, especially when Glork put someone at lynch-1 for no stated reason
(3:28:21 AM) patrickgower2006: and failing to comment on Xtoxm, yos2 is guilty of the same, and probably someone else too
(3:28:37 AM) CaffieneDeity: Trying to remember the guy who sheeped on Glork's thing with ZazieR recently.
(3:28:55 AM) patrickgower2006: glork's thing with zazier?
(3:29:00 AM) patrickgower2006: zazier isn't playing
(3:29:20 AM) CaffieneDeity: !
(3:29:23 AM) CaffieneDeity: It was Dahill.
(3:29:36 AM) patrickgower2006: onto tuber?
(3:29:45 AM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(3:29:49 AM) CaffieneDeity: Something somewhere else.
(3:30:04 AM) CaffieneDeity: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1399708
(3:30:16 AM) patrickgower2006: oh, I see
(3:30:34 AM) patrickgower2006: well why take issue with tuber's unexplained vote then
(3:30:35 AM) patrickgower2006: psh
(3:30:44 AM) CaffieneDeity: I like our vote.
(3:31:08 AM) patrickgower2006: i'll ask him this stuff later
(3:31:12 AM) patrickgower2006: but I have to go now
(3:31:16 AM) CaffieneDeity: *waves*
(3:31:33 AM) CaffieneDeity: I might post later myself. Or not.
(3:31:46 AM) patrickgower2006: thanks for letting me know
(3:31:50 AM) patrickgower2006: :P
(3:31:51 AM) CaffieneDeity: Any time, man.
(3:32:08 AM) patrickgower2006: :-)
(3:32:11 AM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

(3:37:18 PM) patrickgower2006: what does hand waving mean anyway
(3:37:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Dismissing something as lighter than it really is.
(3:38:18 PM) patrickgower2006: primape accused Incognito of handwaving

[...]

(7:22:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: The next sig-line in the pattern I've been using in 720 is "Secretly." I am unsure how to pull this off.
(7:22:35 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(7:22:38 PM) patrickgower2006: how many have you got?
(7:22:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Sincerely,
Reminiscently,
Patiently,
Apologetically,"
(7:23:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Secretly,
Hopefully yours,
Commiseratingly yours,
Loyally,
Forcefully,"
(7:23:11 PM) patrickgower2006: yes, I remember those
(7:23:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: And that's it for the Chip's Challenge references.
(7:24:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Then I have a list of other lines, like "Spartan Warror" and "Your sistah in soul" to use when I run out.
(7:24:22 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(7:24:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: *Warrior.
(7:24:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not Warror.
(7:24:39 PM) patrickgower2006: I kind of see what you mean on the early claim
(7:26:48 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't get dahill's reply. He seems to have just said he didn't see the unexlained vote as telling alignment wise, but didn't he use that as a reason to vote?
(7:26:56 PM) patrickgower2006: or am I misunderstanding that
(7:27:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...aparently.
(7:28:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wow, I can't spell tonight.
(7:28:41 PM) patrickgower2006: I guess it possibly is true he was only putting forward an opposing viewpoint in that MD thread
(7:28:46 PM) patrickgower2006: still seems weak
(7:29:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: That was my original interpretation, but then he said, "i dislike using info outside of mafia games in general, so i don't consider this telling of any particular alignment." Don't get that.
(7:29:53 PM) patrickgower2006: thats my point
(7:30:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: Whatever. Good thing we're voting him.
(7:30:30 PM) patrickgower2006: CPU
(7:30:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not wild about Rally's vote for Erratus, either.
(7:30:59 PM) patrickgower2006: meh, I don't agree with it at all, but not sure it's scummy yet
(7:31:07 PM) patrickgower2006: I was going to read that post again
(7:31:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: "unvote
vote: Erratus Apathos

EA votes Yosarian for "not liking his 'contributions' ", but doesn't back it up. It just looks like some random activity to me until he finds a better target. I don't see anything wrong with Yosarian so far. Testing the waters with the alt question was also of interest for me. I'm curious in which way Coriolanus will react to a different subject in the future.

Glork's vote on Xtoxm also doesn't strike me as bad. I don't think anyone would have hammered Xtoxm at this early stage of Day 1, so this could hardly be called an attempt to get him lynched.

Xtoxm's self vote looks kinda fishy. I fail to see what the purpose could have been. The wagon on Xtoxm wasn't really threatening, it wasn't backed up with suspicions based on facts. So why would he vote himself to L-2? The only reason I can think of is to prevent someone else do it, thus hindering the gain of more information from it. " Enjoy.
(7:31:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(7:32:25 PM) patrickgower2006: last sentence is something I considered
(7:32:59 PM) patrickgower2006: middle paragraph is likely a repeat of what someone else said
(7:33:17 PM) patrickgower2006: first paragraph is weird
(7:33:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Xtoxm doesn't like us. ._.
(7:33:39 PM) patrickgower2006: me, actually
(7:33:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Actually, he just doesn't like you.
(7:33:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(7:33:50 PM) patrickgower2006: not sure why
(7:34:02 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe I should make this post too
(7:34:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: Enjoy.
(7:34:42 PM) patrickgower2006: all I have to say atm is to ask dahill wtf he voted tuber if what he cited isn't telling of alignment
(7:36:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i don't see how agreeing with others' cases is a bad thing " You might want to add how this is a strawman, the stances themselves were crap (Glork never said anything specific on his Tuberkhate; Dahill wrote his case on his own), and note that he's still voting Tuberk, ask why.
(7:36:58 PM) patrickgower2006: I think that refers to his yos sheeping no?
(7:37:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, that was also crap.
(7:37:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm being asked to play a game in the Spogg chat.
(7:37:36 PM) patrickgower2006: enjoy
(7:37:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: But not yet; you can still talk.
(7:37:58 PM) patrickgower2006: why thankyou
(7:41:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well fine.
(7:41:18 PM) patrickgower2006: ;P
(7:41:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: You are also free to not talk.
(7:41:26 PM) patrickgower2006: well
(7:41:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh. Now Incognito's randomizing.
(7:41:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Psh.
(7:41:56 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm interested in his answer on the first part about his tuber vote, depending on what it is. I wonder why he spared Glork the same suspicion
(7:42:21 PM) patrickgower2006: if you see an unexplained vote as a crime, surely an unexplained lynch-1 is worse
(7:43:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: This is probably one of those double standards in favor of ICs Primate is always going on about.
(7:43:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh fuck two people messaged me I'm probably scum.
(7:43:17 PM) patrickgower2006: trust the IC
(7:43:22 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(8:01:40 PM) patrickgower2006: primate seems kind of town, but I think he's wrong about Incognito
(8:11:21 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(10:02:22 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.
(5:39:19 AM) patrickgower2006 has signed on.
(5:39:29 AM) CaffieneDeity: Yosarian is scummy.
(5:39:58 AM) CaffieneDeity: "Interesting point Yos makes against Erratus." "Interesting."
(6:01:40 AM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.
(6:35:28 AM) patrickgower2006 has signed on.

(6:49:08 AM) patrickgower2006: dahill's response kind of makes sense. I don't see what "interesting" point yos made on EA
(6:49:13 AM) CaffieneDeity: "(5:39:29 AM) CaffieneDeity: Yosarian is scummy.
(5:39:58 AM) CaffieneDeity: "Interesting point Yos makes against Erratus." "Interesting."" Did you see this?
(6:49:19 AM) CaffieneDeity: ...wait, it does?
(6:49:32 AM) patrickgower2006: wait, who did you say that too before
(6:49:35 AM) CaffieneDeity: You.
(6:49:38 AM) patrickgower2006: oh
(6:49:41 AM) patrickgower2006: I didn't see it
(6:49:56 AM) patrickgower2006: I don't see how he made an interesting point on EA at all
(6:50:02 AM) patrickgower2006: weird that Glork QFT that
(6:50:05 AM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(6:50:37 AM) patrickgower2006: well, I saw dahill as just contradicting himself before, but what he's saying could be the truth
(6:51:11 AM) CaffieneDeity: I still don't get it.
(6:51:18 AM) CaffieneDeity: What was his Tuberk vote for?
(6:51:19 AM) patrickgower2006: what part don't you get?
(6:51:25 AM) patrickgower2006: because he found him scummy
(6:51:36 AM) CaffieneDeity: Why did he bring up the lack of explanation on the Primvote?
(6:51:46 AM) patrickgower2006: he didn't like it
(6:51:55 AM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(6:52:12 AM) patrickgower2006: it was definitely a vote switch to follow momentum though
(6:52:36 AM) patrickgower2006: he didn't say a word about tuber before Glork said he'd lynch tuber and before Incognito was somewhat criticsl of him
(6:52:52 AM) patrickgower2006: so keep an eye on that
(6:53:31 AM) CaffieneDeity: I still like our vote.
(6:53:40 AM) patrickgower2006: I can't think of a particular better vote atm
(6:53:47 AM) patrickgower2006: but don't tunnel vision on this
(6:53:49 AM) CaffieneDeity: Yosarian would be a decent bet.
(6:54:01 AM) patrickgower2006: yos2 blowing up about the claim like that is expected
(6:54:07 AM) patrickgower2006: it's his weird policy thing
(6:54:10 AM) CaffieneDeity: I know.
(6:54:13 AM) patrickgower2006: I don't like his response to EA, really
(6:54:16 AM) patrickgower2006: thats kind of cheap
(6:54:20 AM) CaffieneDeity: That.
(6:55:59 AM) CaffieneDeity: His second post wasn't a "pointless question" that early. Erratus was lurking, but it was, like, two days, and two wrongs don't make a right. (It also ignored that there was a bit more in Erratus's post that voted him, though to be fair, only a little.)
(6:56:39 AM) CaffieneDeity: Oh, Erratus posted.
(6:56:45 AM) patrickgower2006: let me see
(6:56:53 AM) CaffieneDeity: Wheeeeeeee Pathetric being on GMT is confusing to me.
(6:57:20 AM) patrickgower2006: his response is ok
(6:57:30 AM) patrickgower2006: don't think I'd have switched to RV though
(6:58:14 AM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(6:58:29 AM) CaffieneDeity: Chainsaw defense is silly.
(6:58:43 AM) patrickgower2006: is chainsaw meant as a scumtell or an associative tell?
(6:59:08 AM) CaffieneDeity: Um. I think Tar means it as a really scummy associative tell. I don't know.
(6:59:20 AM) patrickgower2006: well, I've never really looked into it
(7:00:17 AM) patrickgower2006: is Glork really this sold on Xtoxm?
(7:01:02 AM) CaffieneDeity: I think so.
(7:01:15 AM) CaffieneDeity: Dunno what I think of Corio.
(7:01:29 AM) patrickgower2006: oh, he made that comment that if xtoxm is scum we'll get him later
(7:01:51 AM) CaffieneDeity: I basically agree, except, y'know, meta.
(7:02:17 AM) patrickgower2006: you agree with corio's comment
(7:02:26 AM) patrickgower2006: except meta? What meta?
(7:02:51 AM) CaffieneDeity: I think if Xtoxm is scum, he'll be scum in a manner reminiscent of Newbie 581 and PYP3.
(7:02:58 AM) patrickgower2006: oh, I know
(7:03:14 AM) patrickgower2006: that could be what corio is saying, but we don't know if he knows about xtoxm or not
(7:03:18 AM) CaffieneDeity: We catch on, we lynch him, the day is saved aside from the other filthy Julius supporters.
(7:03:20 AM) CaffieneDeity: Exactly.
(7:03:27 AM) CaffieneDeity: I doubt he does.
(7:03:56 AM) CaffieneDeity: (I believe the CC thing.)
(7:04:06 AM) patrickgower2006: what's CC again
(7:04:22 AM) CaffieneDeity: Conquer Club, a Risk site where they play mafia.
(7:04:31 AM) patrickgower2006: oh
(7:05:02 AM) CaffieneDeity: Glork and some other ScumChatters invaded it at some point and messed around, so I believe Glork would stand out in particular for him.
(7:05:10 AM) patrickgower2006: h
(7:05:12 AM) patrickgower2006: makes sense
(7:05:34 AM) patrickgower2006: has yos2 dlone any scumhunting yet
(7:05:44 AM) patrickgower2006: I don't remember any
(7:05:45 AM) CaffieneDeity: Aside from the Erratus stuff? Not really.
(7:05:56 AM) patrickgower2006: did he call erratus scum
(7:06:10 AM) CaffieneDeity: Um.
(7:06:13 AM) CaffieneDeity: Not explicitly.
(7:06:39 AM) patrickgower2006: he's on close watch
(7:07:05 AM) patrickgower2006: I would guess Primate is town
(7:07:11 AM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(7:08:20 AM) CaffieneDeity: Primate, Tuberk, probably Erratus...probably Xtoxm.
(7:08:58 AM) patrickgower2006: no charter?
(7:09:13 AM) CaffieneDeity: I'll wait for Dahill's alignment.
(7:09:21 AM) patrickgower2006: lol
(7:09:43 AM) CaffieneDeity: Hey. Let's be honest, I get burned a lot with this sort of thing.
(7:10:06 AM) patrickgower2006: I was actually referring to your early town tell on him. not the location of his vote
(7:10:13 AM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(7:10:16 AM) CaffieneDeity: I forgot that.
(7:10:20 AM) patrickgower2006: I'm far from sold on dahill being scum anyway
(7:10:35 AM) patrickgower2006: we'll see if he continues following people
(7:10:52 AM) CaffieneDeity: I'd be willing to move to Yosarian.
(7:11:06 AM) patrickgower2006: maybe soon
(7:11:10 AM) CaffieneDeity: But I don't like Dahill's excuse, no.
(7:11:22 AM) patrickgower2006: we'll stay on the wagon a while then
(7:11:44 AM) patrickgower2006: see who yos2 places his first vote on
(7:11:58 AM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(7:12:07 AM) CaffieneDeity: So we can clear it?
(7:12:16 AM) patrickgower2006: more to see if he's scumhunting
(7:12:30 AM) CaffieneDeity: Psh, fine.
(7:12:38 AM) patrickgower2006: I don't want to clear people on day 1 based on hypothetical alignment that might be busing or might be wrong
(7:12:59 AM) CaffieneDeity: I said "clearing" in a light sense.
(7:13:11 AM) patrickgower2006: no, you were 100% serious and needed to be told off for it
(7:13:15 AM) patrickgower2006: :P
(7:13:35 AM) CaffieneDeity: Dammit.
(7:13:59 AM) patrickgower2006: I feel slightly burned out too. Really should take a short break after this
(7:14:17 AM) CaffieneDeity: I like this game.
(7:14:21 AM) CaffieneDeity: Now, those other two...
(7:14:22 AM) patrickgower2006: if we push yos2 enough, he'll kill us tonight
(7:14:31 AM) CaffieneDeity: I laughed.
(7:14:33 AM) patrickgower2006: lol

[...]

(4:06:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: Aaaaaaactually, Erratus's moving on so quickly is kinda weird.
(4:07:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: And Xtoxm is silly.
(4:07:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...did he just get hammered?
(4:07:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: Can you see this?
(4:09:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: Fine.
(4:09:06 PM) patrickgower2006: wait a sec
(4:09:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(4:09:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: He wasn't hammered; he's back at -2.
(4:09:44 PM) patrickgower2006: I keep forgetting that when my computer turns on, aim is opened automatically
(4:09:48 PM) patrickgower2006: and you gave me a fright there
(4:09:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(4:10:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(4:10:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hello, Patrick.
(4:10:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: This is a powerful virus.
(4:10:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Your computer is now under my control.
(4:10:58 PM) patrickgower2006: ;p;
(4:11:06 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(4:11:29 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(4:11:31 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(4:11:33 PM) patrickgower2006: nope
(4:11:36 PM) patrickgower2006: still seems ok
(4:11:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm letting it seem okay.
(4:12:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: "On Patrick - He said he spoke with Ether about finding me scummy for meta reasons, and Ether disagreeing. I have never played Ether, so I see no reason why she would overrule his opinion on my meta, whcih makes me think they are scum and were infact discussing whether to attack me for my play fitting my scum meta." He doesn't remember me. ._.
(4:13:20 PM) patrickgower2006: thats not what I expected
(4:13:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh, well.
(4:13:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: At least it's easy to make him shut up with it.
(4:13:49 PM) patrickgower2006: I fucking hate yos2 here
(4:13:50 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(4:13:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: "The people i'm calling scummy are all voting me... " He doesn't remember you, either. :P
(4:14:00 PM) patrickgower2006: and dahill voted too
(4:14:04 PM) patrickgower2006: fudge
(4:14:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm fine with moving our vote to Yosarian.
(4:14:18 PM) patrickgower2006: but dahill moved too
(4:14:20 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(4:14:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think Dahill's excuse is flailing, but they'd both work.
(4:14:46 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(4:15:14 PM) patrickgower2006: am I just being dumb over this yos/EA thing? Glork seems to agree with yos2 and thinks he's contributing??
(4:15:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(4:16:53 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not sold on xtoxm being town. I hate those last two votes though
(4:17:09 PM) patrickgower2006: if Glork is going to stay on there he can be the third scumbud
(4:17:38 PM) patrickgower2006: corio might be town
(4:19:07 PM) patrickgower2006: Xtoxm's suggestion that yos2 slipped and knows he's town is baseless, though. But then yos2's vote for him looks like an excuse to vote
(4:19:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(4:21:04 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito mentioned the EA/Yos2 thing without really saying anything
(4:22:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ooh. I just saw there were new posts.
(4:22:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Corio wins.
(4:22:46 PM) patrickgower2006: corio is confirmed town
(4:22:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pretty much.
(4:28:50 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(4:29:20 PM) patrickgower2006: was EA attacking yos2 for "lack of contribution" or for not scumhunting in his contributions? Is there a distinction to be drawn there?
(4:29:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think it's the latter.
(4:29:52 PM) patrickgower2006: well, so do I, but Glork seemed to strawman it
(4:30:05 PM) patrickgower2006: yos2 as well, maybe
(4:30:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: The behavior around Yosarian is more sinister than the behavior around Dahill.
(4:30:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh.
(4:30:38 PM) patrickgower2006: who's behaviour?
(4:30:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glork's, Rally's, the fact that he doesn't have a wagon.
(4:31:07 PM) patrickgower2006: ah
(4:31:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hell, the way Erratus backed off is slightly weird, though I don't think I'd use that on its own.
(4:31:48 PM) patrickgower2006: could be OMGUS
(4:32:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
(4:32:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(4:32:09 PM) patrickgower2006: I mean, OMGUS towards his voter
(4:32:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(4:40:33 PM) patrickgower2006: you didn't even disagree with me on the meta aspect, I thought
(4:41:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think my stance was mostly like his second paragraph there.
(4:41:25 PM) patrickgower2006: ah
(4:46:27 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not sold on Xtoxm being town, but dislike the last two votes on him. Xtoxm's accusation that Yos2 slipped and revealed knowledge of his alignment seems baseless to me; but Yos2's response and vote is full of hyperbole. I don't see the manipulation in Xtoxm's post that he claims too at all, and dahill's vote just looks like opportunism.

(4:46:44 PM) patrickgower2006: how's that? I don't want some silly semantic debate with someone, is why I ask
(4:46:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm fine with that.
(4:47:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: I actually have a somewhat longer post typed up.
(4:47:10 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(4:47:16 PM) patrickgower2006: I had more there
(4:47:21 PM) patrickgower2006: but if you typed one up
(4:47:40 PM) patrickgower2006: lesse it here please?
(4:48:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm trying to fit in that you aren't as sold on Xtoxmtown as I am.
(4:48:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm. This has mostly responses.
(4:48:51 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(4:48:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I really think Dahill is flailing. Apparently Patrick thinks it's an acceptable excuse but still isn't wild about him anyway. We both agree that Yosarian's and Dahill's Xtoxmvotes

really really suck

.

On Patrick - He said he spoke with Ether about finding me scummy for meta reasons, and Ether disagreeing. I have never played Ether, so I see no reason why she would overrule his opinion on my meta, whcih makes me think they are scum and were infact discussing whether to attack me for my play fitting my scum meta.

Uh. Remember when I researched into Incognito's previous extensive meta on you and overruled his conclusions to get you lynched as scum in PYP3? I think I know what I'm doing.

By the way, you called us scummy and we're not voting you. ^_^

Tuberk: I thought your Primvote was for advertising a wagon to "kick off" a game that had already been kicked off, denying previous material. (I'm fine with his fishing for reactions response.)

Interesting point Yos makes against Erratus.

"Interesting" is pretty ambiguous. Personally, I'd move my vote to Yosarian without batting an eyelash.

The next sig-line in the pattern would be "Secretly," but that doesn't actually fit with this post,
-Ether"
(4:48:56 PM) patrickgower2006: PM it to pathetrick then
(4:49:39 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(4:49:58 PM) patrickgower2006: is it worth saying that he hasn't really summed it up well at all
(4:50:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
(4:50:33 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork says EA voted yos2 for lack of contributing. I think that's subtly different to the truth
(4:51:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...yeah, I'd mention it.
(4:52:25 PM) patrickgower2006: do you want to post or shall I
(4:52:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't care.
(4:58:38 PM) patrickgower2006: are you sold on xtox town
(4:58:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm. I'm trying to make this eloquent and failing.
(4:58:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: And I'm pretty close.
(4:59:32 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(5:01:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Deconstructing Glork's response, I mean.
(5:01:26 PM) patrickgower2006: so you're close to being sold on xtox town
(5:01:40 PM) patrickgower2006: and you're being eloqeuent in deconstucting glork
(5:01:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm not being eloquent.
(5:01:53 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:02:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't think this sums it up at all. I got the impression EA voted Yos2 because he didn't see how his contributions were helpful to hunting scum. I don't see why EA's not posting much before then should undermine his point, and I see where he was coming from. Although, I'm a little surprised that EA moved so quickly onto Rally Vincent after that.

(5:02:50 PM) patrickgower2006: thats what I have written down
(5:03:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: That works.
(5:03:13 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll post mine then
(5:03:33 PM) patrickgower2006: you can add that bit about primate and tuberk that I haven't looked at if you like
(5:03:37 PM) patrickgower2006: :P
(5:04:34 PM) patrickgower2006: there we are
(5:04:38 PM) patrickgower2006: perfectly eloquent
(5:04:42 PM) patrickgower2006: ;P
(5:14:56 PM) patrickgower2006: oh, I can open boost
(5:15:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: ^_^

[...]

(7:18:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: "As for dahill...I haven't played much forum mafia with him, but from my recollection of how he played in person at Starkadium, my impression is that he tends to follow people he thinks are "good players" a lot, irrespective of alignment. Glork and Ether will probably both agree with me about his in person play." I don't remember this, but I could believe it.
(7:19:04 PM) patrickgower2006: who said that
(7:19:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yosarian.
(7:19:24 PM) patrickgower2006: there's hope yet
(7:19:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Aww. I wanted to lynch him.
(7:19:52 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(7:20:27 PM) patrickgower2006: well, he has followed alot
(7:20:33 PM) patrickgower2006: it's possible it's a meta of his
(7:20:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(7:22:56 PM) patrickgower2006: "And you didn't have a problem with me when I said that. The only reason I didn't vote him was because I thought he was close to a lynch due to all the "lynch -2" talk, although he really was only at 3 votes out of 7. "
(7:23:02 PM) patrickgower2006: this isn't really true though
(7:23:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
(7:23:15 PM) patrickgower2006: the first sentence that is
(7:25:13 PM) patrickgower2006: RV doesn't seem that bad to me
(7:25:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: Rally is eh.
(7:26:20 PM) patrickgower2006: I sort of doubt both yos2 and dahill are scum. dunno
(7:26:28 PM) patrickgower2006: not scum together, anyway
(7:27:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Same.

[Patrick]

Wow.

[charter]

That broke the page for me

[Ether]

Yeah, I AIMed OGML asking him to delete that last post so I can try chopping it up better.

Wow.

Half of that was you. >=(

[Primate]

Chatty little beggers ain't you.

[Ether]

You know, Primate...

Glork gets really lonely in those CT games sometimes. ._.

[OhGodMyLife]

Ether, you broke my thread. Try again.

[Ether]

Trying again.

(2:50:16 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork is probably scum btw
(2:50:35 PM) patrickgower2006: trouble is, I'm getting bad vibes from most of the experienced players now
(2:50:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(2:50:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm reading.
(2:50:39 PM) patrickgower2006: it's worrying
(2:50:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: There was a game at Starkadium with Glork/Yosarian.
(2:51:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: We won, but only because like all of us had power roles.
(2:51:12 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:51:19 PM) patrickgower2006: I wish we were a vig
(2:51:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I tracked Yosarian successfully!
(2:51:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glork bussed him first. ¬_¬
(2:51:35 PM) patrickgower2006: good girl
(2:51:37 PM) patrickgower2006:
(2:52:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I happen to agree with Patrithetic;"
(2:52:18 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:53:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Also, I've seen scum fake-claim pro-town power roles on D1 often enough that I used to give D1 Vanilla claims extremely high credence. Recent experience has made me feel differently about this though."

[pondering whether an ongoing game might be the context of this]

(2:59:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: You know what'd be funny?
(2:59:44 PM) patrickgower2006: if they are all 3 scum
(2:59:45 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(3:00:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: If we were a vig and we killed the other ICs and everyone decided we were a serial killer who had it in for ICs.
(3:00:21 PM) patrickgower2006: dayvig
(3:00:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: I stab Glork in the face.
(3:00:35 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(3:00:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: Man, it's been almost 6 months since I got to do that.
(3:00:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Time flies.
(3:01:01 PM) patrickgower2006: have you read it all? I don't like the thing on corio at all.
(3:01:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not yet.
(3:01:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm on Incognito's 203.
(3:01:14 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(3:01:18 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't much like that either
(3:01:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(3:01:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm his Xtoxm-reading superior now.
(3:01:49 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(3:01:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: He should bow to my judgement.
(3:02:11 PM) patrickgower2006: well, he seems too ready to stay on the wagon in bad company. His comments on Yos2 and dahill's votes seem very routine
(3:02:25 PM) patrickgower2006: however, as so many experienced players seem to hate xtoxm, it's a bit worrying
(3:02:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: Primate unvotes. Wonder how he'll react.
(3:02:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: Very.
(3:02:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: We are the only sane ones left, Patrick. ._.
(3:02:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: And Primate.
(3:02:52 PM) patrickgower2006: oh, I meant that kind of thing makes me doubt myself
(3:02:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(3:03:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: THEY ARE WRONG.
(3:03:05 PM) patrickgower2006: or scum
(3:03:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: THEY ARE WRONG AND SCUM.
(3:04:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh god. I remember talking with Incognito about 530...let me find something.
(3:04:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...
(3:04:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm.
(3:05:06 PM) patrickgower2006: oh, yes that!
(3:05:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: It was about Iceforge's selfvote.
(3:05:25 PM) patrickgower2006: well, he saw it as protown
(3:05:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: God.
(3:05:31 PM) patrickgower2006: he believes self voting newbies are town
(3:05:37 PM) patrickgower2006: Xtoxm isn't a newbie
(3:06:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hasn't it been said in thread that Xtoxm's selfvote is something he does regardless of alignment?
(3:07:02 PM) patrickgower2006: dahill said it I believe
(3:07:22 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't actually really get why Incognito is voting him
(3:07:30 PM) patrickgower2006: did he give a reason?
(3:08:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: It was originally a random vote.
(3:08:07 PM) patrickgower2006: well, yes
(3:08:12 PM) patrickgower2006: you know what I mean by reason
(3:08:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Xtoxm, your play so far just seems bizarre to me and distinctly reminds me of the type of play I remember seeing from you in NG 581 where you ended up self-voting and admitting to being scum after being called out for non-contributiveness. Why exactly would following the advice of placing yourself at L-2 at the request of someone whose alignment you supposedly don't know be more beneficial than actually commenting on some of the relevant happenings that have occurred in this game? Do you have anything to say about anyone so far? "
(3:08:33 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(3:08:48 PM) patrickgower2006: meh
(3:08:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(3:08:53 PM) patrickgower2006: I still don't like his last post
(3:08:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Second the vig thing.
(3:09:15 PM) patrickgower2006: read the rest too, though
(3:09:18 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm very concerned
(3:10:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: So what do we post?
(3:10:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: "There are 3 scum in {dahill1, Glork, Incognito, Yosarian2}, unless there is a serial killer, in which case there are 4 scum in {dahill1, Glork, Incognito, Yosarian2}."
(3:10:49 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(3:10:54 PM) patrickgower2006: it's your turn
(3:10:55 PM) patrickgower2006:
(3:11:01 PM) patrickgower2006: have you read the other posts though?
(3:11:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm tempted to actually post that.
(3:11:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, still reading.
(3:14:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: I really want to see how Incognito reacts to the shrunk Xtoxmwagon.
(3:14:39 PM) patrickgower2006: mm
(3:19:42 PM) patrickgower2006: well, I don't see anything in the case against Corio. He's a dick and all that, but he's done plenty
(3:19:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pretty much.
(3:20:20 PM) patrickgower2006: but primate joined in as well
(3:20:22 PM) patrickgower2006: ughrfrgh
(3:20:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i might as well take pictures of me dancing a tango on my desk." I'd look.
(3:20:42 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(3:21:47 PM) patrickgower2006: I could see Glork/Yos2
(3:21:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(3:22:02 PM) patrickgower2006: not yos2/dahill, not corio/Xtoxm
(3:22:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(3:22:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Does this mean we should lynch Glork?
(3:22:41 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno
(3:22:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Because I'm always cool with lynching Glork.
(3:23:02 PM) patrickgower2006: you're not, you are against lynching Glork on day 1
(3:23:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not this time!
(3:23:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm against lynching Glork for fucking around on Day 1.
(3:23:28 PM) patrickgower2006: so who's the sleaziest
(3:23:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: When he does produce content and it is bad....
(3:23:51 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't even agree with his response on the EA/Yos thing
(3:24:19 PM) patrickgower2006: unless I'm missing something obvious, he's saying a player who hasn't yet contributed to the game is not allowed to say they dislike someone elses contributions
(3:24:25 PM) patrickgower2006: how else would they get into the game?
(3:24:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(3:24:40 PM) patrickgower2006: am I missing something obvious?
(3:24:48 PM) patrickgower2006: that position seems absurd
(3:24:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: I agree with you.
(3:26:40 PM) patrickgower2006: why is primate joining in though
(3:26:54 PM) patrickgower2006: he called it a bandwagon vote, could it be a trap or something
(4:25:30 PM) patrickgower2006: xtoxm dropped that point
(4:25:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(4:26:27 PM) patrickgower2006: still not impressed with the case on corio
(4:27:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...I really just want to unvote; vote: Glork.
(4:27:36 PM) patrickgower2006: tsk
(4:28:08 PM) patrickgower2006: you probably don't want to hear it, but I doubt that's the best approach here
(4:28:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know it's not.
(4:28:59 PM) patrickgower2006: the last little bit in Glork's last post is semantics

[...]

(4:36:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: Man. I'm never accurate on Day 1. ¬_¬

(totally taken out of context)

[...]

(5:57:27 PM) patrickgower2006: assmaster is making a little more sense again
(5:57:55 PM) patrickgower2006: yos2 continues to look scummy
(5:59:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i think pathetric has been providing the greatest insights in this game so far (particularly the ether half), and i view ass and charter as very town." Awesome dude.
(5:59:10 PM) patrickgower2006: corio?
(5:59:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(5:59:15 PM) patrickgower2006: winner
(5:59:33 PM) patrickgower2006: you should post now when the iron is hot, or whatever it is
(5:59:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(5:59:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm just...not sure how to say eloquently that I'm suspicious of three credible ICs.
(6:00:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: And Dahill.
(6:00:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: At the same time.
(6:00:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Oh please god don't let Glork, Incognito and Yosarian2 all be scum." is all I have.
(6:00:55 PM) patrickgower2006: well, you could just post your reply to Incognito and point out how Glork's cases seem off and anthing else
(6:01:05 PM) patrickgower2006: you don't actually have to say, "i think these 4 are scum" immedistely
(6:01:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(6:01:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: I guess,
(6:53:55 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(7:31:14 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.

[...]

(8:29:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: You're of legal drinking age. You could totally post drunk in 720.
(8:29:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: It'd be great.
(8:30:14 PM) patrickgower2006: we are going to have to convince people to lynch Glork, Yos2 and Incognito. Drunk posting hurts the cause
(8:30:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Fine.
(8:30:30 PM) patrickgower2006: I think posting in a cute way will help though
(8:30:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wait.
(8:30:35 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(8:30:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: No one takes me seriously as it is. ¬_¬
(8:31:01 PM) patrickgower2006: just settle for one
(8:31:08 PM) patrickgower2006: we're not uunreasonable
(8:31:09 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(8:31:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: Drunk posting has this mystique to it.
(8:31:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Like, you post, and I say,
(8:31:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: MY OTHER HEAD HAS HAD A VISION.
(8:31:47 PM) patrickgower2006: he's feigning drunkeness!
(8:31:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: A VISION.
(8:32:10 PM) patrickgower2006: I think you're more of a visions person
(8:32:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah, but I'm not legal.
(8:32:30 PM) patrickgower2006: irrelevant
(8:32:40 PM) patrickgower2006: fos: Ether for distracting with irrelevant issues
(8:32:55 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe you hid the real role from me
(8:33:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: Good luck lynching Glork, Incognito, Yosarian and Ether.
(8:33:17 PM) patrickgower2006: you help me, and I'll let you off
(8:33:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.

[...]

(4:53:31 PM) patrickgower2006: are you still there?
(4:53:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(4:54:00 PM) patrickgower2006: so what's this all about
(4:54:02 PM) patrickgower2006: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 43#1411543
(4:54:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: No clue.
(4:54:23 PM) patrickgower2006: it's tempting to ask why the fuck he's voting corio
(4:54:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: I have a post typed up that rages at Incognito.
(4:54:42 PM) patrickgower2006: rages?
(4:54:43 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(4:54:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'd rather see what his next move is, though.
(4:56:17 PM) Unable to send message: The message is too large.
(4:56:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: "

This strikes me as odd coming from Ether. In that very same game you're referencing, it felt like, to me at least, Ether couldn't pick up on Xtoxm-scum any sooner than she did; I felt like she nabbed him almost immediately upon his entry to the thread, and she pretty much gave me hell for it the entire rest of the game because I didn't pick up on him soon enough. Why does she now believe that we haven't seen enough from him to be able to come to a definitive conclusion about his alignment? Further, I'd say in NG 581, figuring him out 3 pages in is hardly a large stretch of time to give someone to become involved in the game.

I don't

now

believe we haven't seen enough; I believed it when Patrick made post 104, when Xtoxm's selfvote was literally all I had out of him. I've already said that I think he's easier to read when he doesn't realize anyone is watching: I didn't have that luxury this time around. And even in PYP3, I only voted him like 12 days after he replaced in, and his predecessor had given me a bad feeling as well. So yeah.

I could see why selfvoting ought to be sinister, hypothetically, but it's actually been

said

at some point that he selfvotes indepently of alignment--a behavior you've

seen

him do. (To be fair, I read just enough to note that he was putting himself at -1 here, and I suppose the context could be different.)

Xtoxm is town this time: I hope I've picked up on his alignment early enough for you. As with last time, the associations with him--yours included--are certainly factored into my read. His wagon was and still is shit.

That last post of yours keeps making me flare up. It feels like you know full well that your vote sucks and are determined to cling to it anyway."
(4:56:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: There's a bit more that's too large to send.
(4:57:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: (But that's what's addressed to Incognito.)
(4:57:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: The problem is, I'm saying a lot, but the Xtoxmwagon is already dying, so it's overly dramatic.
(4:57:54 PM) patrickgower2006: how about just addressing other stuff and and not being too dramatic to him?
(4:58:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: "The Corwagon is pretty stupid."
(4:58:49 PM) patrickgower2006: that's a start
(4:59:06 PM) patrickgower2006: mind, only 2 votes on him
(4:59:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know.
(5:00:03 PM) patrickgower2006: are we voting Glork or waiting for what Incognito does, or what?
(5:00:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'd rather do the latter.
(5:00:42 PM) patrickgower2006: you could post about corio and ignore Incognito for now, then see how he reacts to that
(5:00:58 PM) patrickgower2006: if he puts too much stock in it and ignores the corio thing, he's scummy
(5:01:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, the Xtoxmwagon is dying.
(5:01:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: If he stays on it, at least he sort of believes what he's saying.
(5:01:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(5:01:57 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't see how that cuts accross what I said
(5:02:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, my idea is if he puts too much stock in it and ignores the Corio thing, he's better.
(5:02:28 PM) patrickgower2006: if he's town, I have a hard time believing he buys the corio case
(5:03:08 PM) patrickgower2006: I understand the need to get reactionas, but it fidgets me just sitting around/ We're on 2 week deadlines, are we really going to try to outlurk?
(5:03:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Fuck.
(5:03:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: Two week deadlines.
(5:03:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Point.
(5:03:42 PM) patrickgower2006: I think you can still post without necessarily ruining reactions from him
(5:03:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh, wow. We're almost a week in.
(5:03:48 PM) patrickgower2006: yes
(5:03:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Didn't realize that.
(5:42:28 PM) patrickgower2006: "@Pathetric: Would you mind giving me a basic overview of the main discussion topics between the two of you pleeeeesssssseeeeeee. "

(5:43:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'd be willing to give him pretty much everything except the extent to which we're planning to watch Incognito's next move.
(5:43:47 PM) patrickgower2006: go for it
(5:43:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(5:43:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Damn.
(5:44:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: *gets out the logs*
(5:44:12 PM) patrickgower2006: why?
(5:44:16 PM) patrickgower2006: you've forgotten already?
(5:44:17 PM) patrickgower2006:
(5:44:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, I think the main summary is "Holy shit they're all scum except us."
(5:44:43 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:45:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: And you're all "Maybe we're the crazy ones. ._." and I'm all "Ahahahahah that's how I like it die die die."
(5:45:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: Basically.
(5:45:31 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe it'll help him get a read on us
(5:45:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know.
(5:45:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: I will answer.
(5:45:54 PM) patrickgower2006: before deadline?
(5:45:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(5:55:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm typing this in a weird format.
(5:55:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pick a color for dialogue exclusive to you.
(5:55:46 PM) patrickgower2006: whats your colour?
(5:55:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Gold, obv.
(5:55:55 PM) patrickgower2006: blacks fine
(5:56:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: Black would be general.
(5:56:12 PM) patrickgower2006: blue
(5:56:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(5:56:53 PM) patrickgower2006: don't get us modkilled
(5:56:54 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(6:09:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: This is going slowly.
(6:10:06 PM) patrickgower2006: hmm
(6:10:28 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe you're trying to do it too weirdly, or something
(6:10:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Pregame: The nature of Caesar || a conspiracy is the good guys, but this probably isn't Space Monkeys

Dec. 17th: Corio is a horrible human being how dare he discount my experience || that defense was kind of weird from Glork || I hate Erratus's joke excuse for a vote / no, wait, that vote sort of makes sense considering what he'd already said || let's vote Glork / sure, whatever \/||/\ good work on the avatar, Ether / you don't want to know || How does Incognito find this game confusing? / he's kinda weird early on || Primate's thing on Corio came off weird / I guess if Corio's scum... / I meant if Corio's town... / heh || Glork hates us because we are a hydra just deal with it

December 18th: Xtoxm's selfvote is scummy, but Glork's vote is Space Monkeyish / Ether is ignoring Xtoxm she will read him and Corio later but in any case the Xtoxmwagon pisses her off || Dahill is weird / Yosarian is weird || why does Glork hate Tuberk / filter him I don't blame him / wait never mind that Primvote is townish I do blame him"
(6:10:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: I figure I'll reformat it afterward.
(6:11:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: Tables won't work...lists might.
(6:11:36 PM) patrickgower2006: interesting format
(6:11:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(6:11:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't get who's perspective that comes from
(6:11:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know.
(6:11:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: I might or might not add the coloring in later.
(6:12:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: First I have some more days to get through.
(6:12:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: We talk a lot.
(6:12:40 PM) patrickgower2006: we do
(6:12:50 PM) patrickgower2006: dunnpo if dates are strictly needed#
(6:13:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I just need a way to block it up.
(6:13:08 PM) patrickgower2006: ok
(6:19:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: Finished the 18th! ^_^
(6:19:56 PM) patrickgower2006: yay
(6:20:03 PM) patrickgower2006: only a few to go
(6:25:07 PM) patrickgower2006: "also, i think assmaster might be high. maybe. "
(6:25:09 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(6:25:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: ^_^
(6:26:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm, Destructor is a music major, right? Maybe I can hand my song off to him. ¬_¬
(6:26:46 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(6:34:42 PM) patrickgower2006: CPU
(6:34:45 PM) patrickgower2006: watch the cpu
(6:34:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm still going through logs.
(6:35:14 PM) patrickgower2006: seems very time consuming
(6:35:22 PM) patrickgower2006: didn't he just ask for broadly?
(6:35:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: On the 20th.
(6:35:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: X_X
(6:35:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: I could distill this afterward?
(6:35:39 PM) patrickgower2006: true
(6:35:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: Two seconds, though.
(6:35:43 PM) patrickgower2006: ok
(6:39:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wow, I'm glad I dragged in this heating device.
(6:39:42 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(7:08:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Their opinions are seem more like positions they are imho, a little too hasty in adopting, and Pat's posting in particular seems wary" Man, you're dragging me down.
(7:08:26 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(7:08:50 PM) patrickgower2006: this is why you should post!
(7:08:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: I am!
(7:09:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, previously I was reading something else, but now I'm back to posting.
(7:09:30 PM) patrickgower2006: mm
(7:10:00 PM) patrickgower2006: also, I bet he is using some crappy outdated meta
(7:10:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Possibly.
(7:26:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: Tuberk's not doing much again. ._.
(7:27:17 PM) patrickgower2006: he's voting voting xtoxm or corio
(7:27:26 PM) patrickgower2006: in this climate, that virtually confirms him
(7:27:34 PM) patrickgower2006: not voting*
(7:27:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(7:28:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah...the fact that Glork is attacking Corio specifically bugs me.
(7:28:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: I mean, we disagree with him, but we're hard to lynch.
(7:28:28 PM) patrickgower2006: beyond the fact that the case is crap?
(7:28:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: That is closely related.
(7:28:55 PM) patrickgower2006: well, corio is an easy type of target
(7:29:05 PM) patrickgower2006: excessive swearing and ad hom makes you a more appealing vote
(7:29:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(7:29:26 PM) patrickgower2006: I actually don't really get why primate isn't voting us
(7:29:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(7:29:46 PM) patrickgower2006: does he see anything remotely scummy about corio?
(7:30:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I think you're stretching it a bit there Glork. First point. Second, Third are fine. "
(7:30:13 PM) patrickgower2006: see, by rights, he should be scum too
(7:30:15 PM) patrickgower2006: but he's town
(7:30:18 PM) patrickgower2006: argh
(7:30:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: "First, I still can't find any protown reason for the "if X is scum, we can lynch them later" comment. Why the fuck would you want to keep a suspected scumbag alive? It really sounds like a way of saying "yeah, he should be scum, but we should lynch elsewhere." He mentions in his original post that "Xtoxm seems harmless," but no scumbag -- no matter how good or bad their play -- is harmless.
Now, he's going ridiclous out-of-his-way to defend Xtoxm. It's interesting that, just after telling me he'd rather hunt for scum than "defending himself over one comment." Yet he just spent an entire page defending Xtoxm, rathar than hunting scum. Now granted, there are some differences there (namely, that there is more substance behind the Xtoxm wagon than there was behind my FoS of him).
Thirdly, I actually thought exactly what dahill thought about the whole "post restriction" comment... I'll just QFT Post 185 (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 35#1409235) here. "
(7:30:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: (For reference.)
(7:30:43 PM) patrickgower2006: that's glork's case, I know
(7:30:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: He meant post 184.
(7:31:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i know it was a joke about the PR
but you were trying to make the point that i'm mimicing yos "
(7:31:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...why is that scummy?
(7:31:18 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't get that either
(7:31:27 PM) patrickgower2006: kill plz
(7:31:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Want me to move my vote?
(7:32:00 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, it seems like at least as good a bet as dahill
(7:37:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: "The Corwagon is stupid. Glork bugs me a lot; I'd move my vote to him without batting an eyelash. Actually, there are a few people that's true for.

Here's a summary for Primate, though it doesn't cover everything. We talk a lot.

Dec. 17th: that defense was kind of weird from Glork || I hate Erratus's joke excuse for a vote / no, wait, that vote sort of makes sense considering what he'd already said || let's vote Glork || How does Incognito find this game confusing? || Primate's thing on Corio came off weird but we disagree on why and agree with the sentiment

December 18th: Patrick thinks Xtoxm's selfvote is scummy, but Glork's vote is Space Monkeyish / Ether doesn't find Glork's vote too sinister and she is ignoring Xtoxm she will read him and Corio later but in any case the Xtoxmwagon pisses her off || Dahill and Yosarian are weird || Tuberkulos || seriously Xtoxm can wait || Dahillvote is good

December 19th: oh wow Dahill was the guy in the Worst 5 thread who sheeped on Glork die die die || Ether likes Chip's Challenge

*

|| Rally's Erratus vote || Dahill's nonresponse to Glork's unexplained vote is a double standard / that's null

December 20th: Erratus is townish Yosarian is scummy what is up with Glork's response || the acceptability of Dahill's response || wait, Erratus's not voting Yosarian anymore? || Glork is too smug about Xtoxmscum || not enthusiastic about Glork's Corhate || If we are counting his railing on Erratus then Yosarian has scumhunted so far this game otherwise he has not || the bottom of Ether's list at this point, in order: {Primate, Tuberk, Erratus, Xtoxm} || we are still voting Dahill and not Yosarian || actually, Erratus's quick voteswitch was kinda weird, never mind || silly Xtoxm / scary Xtoxmwagon / Corio wins || Glork is scummy || Yosarian is probably not scum with dahill?

December 21st: Incognito's Xtoxmhate is weird / Holy shit there are a lot of scummy ICs in this game / maybe we're crazy. ._. / no Patrick we are messengers of TRUTH.

*

Secretly,
-Ether"
(7:39:06 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
(7:39:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: That work?
(7:39:25 PM) patrickgower2006: a bit confusing, but seems ok
(7:39:36 PM) patrickgower2006: did I find xtomxs self vote scummy
(7:39:46 PM) patrickgower2006: more just his reactions after, dunno
(7:39:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Early.
(7:40:00 PM) patrickgower2006: passable
(7:47:38 PM) patrickgower2006: are you colour coding it?
(7:47:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm adding

• tags.
  (7:47:52 PM) patrickgower2006: ah
  (7:48:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: It covers more topics than who thinks what, mostly.
  (7:48:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I have no real clue how it'll look laid out, I awai
  (7:48:18 PM) patrickgower2006: await it
  (7:48:21 PM) patrickgower2006: with interest
  (7:48:46 PM) patrickgower2006: we haven't disagreed too much on important stuff, at least
  (7:49:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
  (7:49:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wonder what it'd be like to doublehead with someone I can't agree with at all.
  (7:50:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Also, this is proof that daymasons are awesome.
  (7:50:11 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll take up contrary positions to everything you say if you like
  (7:50:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
  (7:50:27 PM) patrickgower2006: it would be too painful for me to do in this game, anyway
  (7:51:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I feel like it affects how I post a bit though, dunno
  (7:52:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
  (7:53:20 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, it just seems kind of weird after we've talked to prepare something to post
  (7:53:55 PM) patrickgower2006: I suppose its normal in double heads that play fairly equal role - if we both just posted as usual we'd probably repeat alot and it would be pointless.
  
  
  [...]
  
  
  (8:26:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: Whew. Done colorcoding.
  (8:26:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Lucky I have a lock.
  (8:27:04 PM) patrickgower2006: pretty is it?
  (8:27:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's mostly uncolored; we agree a lot. ^_^
  (8:27:23 PM) patrickgower2006: ^_^
  (8:27:40 PM) patrickgower2006: you are going to make me look like an idiot aren't you
  (8:28:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm...
  (8:28:51 PM) patrickgower2006: no, that was not a cue to change the colours to make me look like an idiot
  (8:28:54 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
  (8:29:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: I slacked off for the 21st bit.
  (8:30:05 PM) patrickgower2006: didn't we pretty much agree on everything anyway?
  (8:30:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pretty much.
  (8:30:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: There were times when one of us said something and then the other corrected it.
  (8:31:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Tuberkulos - Yeah, he's scummy / Wait, no, that Primvote is townish, never mind" Things like this.
  (8:32:25 PM) patrickgower2006: you corrected yourself there
  (8:32:37 PM) patrickgower2006: I didn't find him scummy or his primate vote townish, I don;t think
  (8:32:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
  (8:33:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Should I fix it to, "Tuberkulos - Yeah, he's scummy / Eh / Wait, no, that Primvote is townish, never mind"?
  (8:34:00 PM) patrickgower2006: sure
  (8:36:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Is it ethical to do things like this?
  (8:36:45 PM) patrickgower2006: like what?
  (8:36:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh. This seems like it'd be difficult to fake.
  (8:37:09 PM) patrickgower2006: have you quoted stuff?
  (8:37:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
  (8:37:22 PM) patrickgower2006: can't really think of a problem then
  (8:37:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's still lengthy.
  (8:37:34 PM) patrickgower2006: does it break any rule
  (8:37:50 PM) patrickgower2006: it just seems like a steam of consciousness type thing
  (8:37:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Technically, no, and I don't think it'd be possible to legislate this, but...
  (8:43:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm PMing this to you.
  (8:44:03 PM) patrickgower2006: to Patrick?
  (8:44:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
  (8:44:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: Sent.
  (8:46:39 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
  (8:47:01 PM) patrickgower2006: well, are you asking me to check content or asking me to pass judgement on whether it's ethical or something
  (8:47:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Both.
  (8:47:17 PM) patrickgower2006: content is fine
  (8:47:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mostly the former.
  (8:47:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
  (8:47:31 PM) patrickgower2006: I can't think of any obvious reason why it';s dubious
  (8:47:40 PM) patrickgower2006: lots of things are hard for scum to faje
  (8:47:41 PM) patrickgower2006: fake
  (8:49:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Posted.
  (8:49:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh. It's weird being on a GMT account.
  (8:49:56 PM) patrickgower2006: heh
  (8:50:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: 1:49. X_X
  (8:50:36 PM) patrickgower2006: I like how it has me in blue saying glorks vote is space monkeyish, on the same day I say in thread that glork is ok
  (8:51:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well your mind changed.
  (8:51:10 PM) patrickgower2006: it did
  (8:54:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Luckily, now that I've done it once, I can say that I will probably never consent to type something like this again. So my meta still gives me leeway.
  (8:54:38 PM) patrickgower2006: corio asked if it's quoted
  (8:55:14 PM) patrickgower2006: doesn't really look like an aim convo, lol
  (9:00:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Odd question.
  (9:01:18 PM) patrickgower2006: well yes, since no convo would go like that
  (9:05:42 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
  (9:42:39 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.
  
  
  [...]
  
  
  (9:48:50 PM) patrickgower2006: charter kind of lurked it today. Then again, so has Incognito thus far, and he posted elsewhere
  (9:48:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
  (9:49:04 PM) patrickgower2006: then again, so did you
  (9:49:08 PM) patrickgower2006:
  (9:51:52 PM) patrickgower2006: dahill was scum with Erg0 in this newbie game
  (9:52:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: So Corio is an Erg0 alt!
  (9:52:18 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
  (9:52:41 PM) patrickgower2006: newbie 561, epando city
  (9:52:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: I just clicked the link.
  (9:53:02 PM) patrickgower2006: which game?
  (9:53:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: To Epando.
  (9:53:10 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
  (9:53:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I didn't even realise

(12:39:53 PM) patrickgower2006: erratus is ignoring too much of the game for my taste
(12:40:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: He and Rally are in their own little world.
(12:40:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: I agree.
(12:40:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm. We mention Glork Glork Glork?
(12:41:00 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno
(12:41:21 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't really get how he got the impression we're disagreeing on dahill

[...]

(12:43:53 PM) patrickgower2006: if needed, you're required to forcefully persuade OGML to grant an extension
(12:44:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: Forcefully?
(12:44:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Like, drive to his house??
(12:44:21 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll leave the details up to you
(12:44:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Shit. Two question marks. That was accidental.
(12:45:44 PM) patrickgower2006: well, it is christmas
(12:45:50 PM) patrickgower2006: remember what happened in your game last year
(12:46:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(12:46:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: True.
(12:46:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: OGML and I are both Jewish. We're pitiless like that.
(12:46:56 PM) patrickgower2006: that's irrelevant, he's the mod, and you're doubleheading with someone who isn'
(12:47:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: You can try to convert him.
(12:47:36 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not anything
(12:47:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, then.
(12:48:26 PM) patrickgower2006: by default, that means I celebrate christmas
(12:48:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Don't get me wrong; I appreciate Christmas.
(12:49:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: I mean, out from school, extended deadlines, what's not to like?
(12:49:23 PM) patrickgower2006: exactly
(12:51:14 PM) patrickgower2006: you think rally vincent is scummy?
(12:51:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh.
(12:51:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: He's kinda neutral.
(12:51:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think the ICs are scummier.
(12:51:43 PM) patrickgower2006: I think so. You gave me the impression you found him scummy
(12:52:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: He's odd. I feel like his spat with Erratus is a distraction.
(12:52:24 PM) patrickgower2006: pretty much
(12:53:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I want Incognito to weigh in on yos2/EA though. He called it interesting
(12:53:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(12:54:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: It'd be funny if he starts attacking Glork. ¬_¬
(12:54:36 PM) patrickgower2006: then maybe he'd be town
(12:54:43 PM) patrickgower2006: I doubt he will, though

[...]

(3:11:11 PM) patrickgower2006: charter lurking
(3:11:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(3:11:34 PM) patrickgower2006: Xtoxm isn't a scumbuddy of his

[...]

(4:39:12 PM) patrickgower2006: dahill limited access until the 5th, doesn't comment on anything
(4:39:22 PM) patrickgower2006: we really need that extension
(4:39:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...yeah.
(4:40:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: AIMing OGML now.
(4:40:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: He doesn't seem to be on.
(4:40:50 PM) patrickgower2006: if it's inactive until deadline we can conceivably lynch dahill, but the scummy ICs need roughing up
(4:50:41 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.[/size]

(4:23:40 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito looks better, I'm far from convinced on Xtoxm's innocence
(4:23:55 PM) patrickgower2006: he's giving me meta scum vibes again
(4:25:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm not really sure what to think right now.
(4:25:42 PM) patrickgower2006: Corio being Simenon gave me a small sinking feeling
(4:25:56 PM) patrickgower2006: not sure why
(4:30:39 PM) patrickgower2006: more fun when the enemy is obvious, heh
(4:30:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: ¬_¬
(4:31:41 PM) patrickgower2006: with Xtoxm it's not so much the case Yosarian posted but more than he's made what looks like 3 deliberate fluff posts during a time of what should be high interest
(4:32:02 PM) patrickgower2006: and we know he likes to do that as scum
(4:32:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know.

[...]

(8:05:48 PM) patrickgower2006: you were supposed to convince OGML to extend the deadline, rather than pull out the stubborn crap he has
(8:06:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: He wasn't on at the same time I was.
(8:06:22 PM) patrickgower2006: he keeps normal hours
(8:06:24 PM) patrickgower2006: =)
(8:06:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmph.

[...]

(8:16:04 PM) patrickgower2006: primate had better post something today
(8:16:15 PM) patrickgower2006: he's been lurking around coney island all day

[...]

(8:58:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: So I said that thing about any game I'm not replaced in not being a total embarrassment, but Simenon posting that link was kind of awkward. ¬_¬
(8:58:38 PM) patrickgower2006: where's this
(8:58:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: In 720, to Normal 70.
(8:58:57 PM) patrickgower2006: o_O
(8:58:59 PM) patrickgower2006: yeah
(8:59:02 PM) patrickgower2006: >.<
(8:59:05 PM) patrickgower2006: I meant >.<
(8:59:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: You're totally covering up feelings of surprise.
(9:00:28 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm surprised nobody attacked him for pointing to meta like that

[...]

(9:24:27 PM) patrickgower2006: rally vincent seems ok
(9:25:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I should reread the last day more thoroughly.
(9:25:07 PM) patrickgower2006: yes
(9:25:11 PM) patrickgower2006: it's kind of interesting
(9:25:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: I could tell.
(9:25:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: So interesting it might require thought.
(9:25:49 PM) patrickgower2006: sorry about that
(9:25:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
(9:26:02 PM) patrickgower2006: forcing you to think
(9:26:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(9:26:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: I forgive you, Patrick.
(9:26:20 PM) patrickgower2006: you can even post if you like
(9:26:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
(9:26:37 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(9:26:41 PM) patrickgower2006: be ambitious
(9:27:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: For once, I didn't mean that sarcastically. I need to decide where I stand first.
(9:27:43 PM) patrickgower2006: I know
(9:28:42 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm basically wanting to see if Xtoxm posts content in reply or takes the chance given to him to argue with me an irrelevant issue

(4:35:39 PM) patrickgower2006: did you form any impressions in OMGL's game?
(4:35:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not new ones?
(4:36:01 PM) patrickgower2006:
(4:37:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: My ethical side wants to treat Simenon the way I previously was, except calling him annoying names.
(4:37:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: ¬_¬
(4:37:26 PM) patrickgower2006: ethical?
(4:37:39 PM) patrickgower2006: you're saying it's unethical to take into account that it's him?
(4:37:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: A sort of "Stop running around on alts! It's okay, little guy."
(4:38:14 PM) patrickgower2006: tsk
(4:38:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think it's wonderfully pretentious moral high ground; not that it's wrong to act otherwise.
(4:38:18 PM) patrickgower2006: these alts
(4:38:39 PM) patrickgower2006: it's nice to have moral high ground on certain things
(4:39:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: It is nice. ._.
(4:39:19 PM) patrickgower2006: I still don't really see any great case against him
(4:39:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(4:40:48 PM) patrickgower2006: I want to make various demands for content. But I don't think I can do it on christmas day
(4:41:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: So ask polite questions?
(4:41:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: You could hand it off to me. I'm Jewish.
(4:42:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: I have no Christmas cheer in my heart.
(4:42:07 PM) patrickgower2006: be my guest
(4:42:10 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(4:42:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: Did Incognito actually address Dahill's contradiction?
(4:42:48 PM) patrickgower2006: can't remember
(4:42:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't think he did.
(4:43:04 PM) patrickgower2006: I saw tuber/dahill debating it. Can't say I read it as closely as I should have
(4:44:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: "and even there you all you said was that you thought I was "streaching it"" We have never used the word "streaching."
(4:45:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't even know what it means!
(4:45:17 PM) patrickgower2006: terrible, terrible
(4:45:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: Him or me?
(4:45:58 PM) patrickgower2006: him
(4:46:18 PM) patrickgower2006: you are not terrible!
(4:46:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: ^_^

[...]

(5:01:18 PM) patrickgower2006: I forgot to the give the usual tip about at least one scum lurking when a game is on strict deadlines
(5:01:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: What about at least one scum lurking otherwise? ¬_¬
(5:02:14 PM) patrickgower2006: odds are there usually is. These conditions tend to make it even more likely though
(5:02:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: Fair enough.
(5:03:16 PM) patrickgower2006: of course, if everyone is lurking...

[Ether]

Dammit. I hate Mafiascum's smiley.

(5:55:18 PM) patrickgower2006: so we should think about stuff in SPQR
(5:55:26 PM) patrickgower2006: it's probably your turn to post
(5:55:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(5:57:42 PM) patrickgower2006: so Xtoxm
(5:57:48 PM) patrickgower2006: the guy worries me
(5:57:52 PM) patrickgower2006: better or worse than dahill?
(5:58:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh. His wagon still scares me.
(5:59:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm looking at Yosarian's 283.
(5:59:27 PM) patrickgower2006: the case?
(5:59:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(5:59:43 PM) patrickgower2006: tell me what you think when you have
(6:00:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Or, to put it another way, "Yos is doing X instead of scumhunting" isn't a valid attack if no one else is really scumhunting yet either." Grr hiss backpedal I am tunnelvisioned.
(6:01:26 PM) patrickgower2006: is that a backpedal?
(6:01:42 PM) patrickgower2006: I didn't read his response there too closely, but can't say it convinced me much
(6:01:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think his original statement was that he was scumhunting and Erratus specifically wasn't.
(6:02:07 PM) patrickgower2006: well, yes
(6:05:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not completely done, but judging by statements like "Why wouldn't he unvote himself during those "Several hours", if he really thought there was a risk someone would hammer? And if he knew there wasn't, why did he think Glork didn't know that? Did he think Glork was a moron or something?", this case is padded.
(6:06:34 PM) patrickgower2006: what's the accusation there again
(6:06:37 PM) patrickgower2006: was it contradiction?
(6:06:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: Exactly.
(6:06:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: To the first part.
(6:07:32 PM) patrickgower2006: well, the accusation is that Xtoxm finds Glork scummy for putting him at lynch-1 because he could be in danger of a hammer, but that he didn't unvote himself to take himself out of such danger
(6:07:49 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(6:08:15 PM) patrickgower2006: and I think he also said that he doesn't disaprove of a page 4 hammer
(6:08:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know.
(6:10:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ooh, Xtoxm has a title now.
(6:10:22 PM) patrickgower2006: I know
(6:12:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Those name-based titles are stupid, but anyway.
(6:17:01 PM) patrickgower2006: so have you read it?
(6:17:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm going through the rest.
(6:17:28 PM) patrickgower2006: oh, ok
(6:18:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's based on contradictions that I'm trying to wrap my head around with mixed success. Obviously this is mostly about my read on Yosarian; for Xtoxm I'd be more inclined to either filter his posts or shrug it off and complain about his wagon.
(6:19:25 PM) patrickgower2006: well, I've looked at his posts and he's not doing much scumhunting
(6:19:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know. ._.
(6:19:40 PM) patrickgower2006: I completely agree Yos2 seems off
(6:24:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Searching all of Xtoxm's posts is odd.
(6:26:07 PM) patrickgower2006: presumably posts 8/9 is the explanation for the alledged contradiction
(6:26:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: 720, 720, MD, 720, other game, 720, 720, 720, 720, GD, other game, other game, other game, other game, other game bunch of other games.
(6:26:34 PM) patrickgower2006: hm
(6:29:11 PM) patrickgower2006: is his thought process contradictory?
(6:30:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes, but I'm not sure it's scummy.
(6:31:27 PM) patrickgower2006: "2. You need to explain the contradiction between your claim that you knew no one would hammer you, and your logic that Glork was scummy because he thought someone would hammer you when he put you at -1."
(6:31:37 PM) patrickgower2006: did xtoxm say that he knew nobody would hammer him?
(6:32:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Yeh, I also left my vote on for several hours just to prove you wrong on that front. I was here when you voted me. No one hammered though. I unvoted not to protect myself but because discussion had moved away from that and i'd found a good place to put my vote. " Now looking at what "that front" is.
(6:32:59 PM) patrickgower2006: I think Glork's front was that xtoxm would unvote himself
(6:33:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(6:33:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Most likely.
(6:33:47 PM) patrickgower2006: "It's less effective when you do it to yourself, because we know that vote won't really stick around for very long."
(6:33:51 PM) patrickgower2006: I think that's it?
(6:34:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Based on past experience, I would have been absolutely floored if Pathetric, dahill, or Yos2 had hammered you." That would have been funny.
(6:34:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: ¬_¬
(6:34:08 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(6:35:20 PM) patrickgower2006: "1. You need to explain why you thought i was "assuming you were town" or whatever, when my post pretty clearly said nothing of the sort " - I'm not a fan of this
(6:35:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(6:36:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: When in doubt, I disagree with Yosarian2.
(6:36:18 PM) patrickgower2006: well
(6:36:44 PM) patrickgower2006: I suppose xtoxm's point is more that his post reads like lecturing or critisising poor play
(6:36:50 PM) patrickgower2006: rather than an outright slip
(6:37:48 PM) patrickgower2006: "Yos is scummy because his post is directed at someone he either knows or believes to be town, he expresses anndoyance at the fact i'm town and claimed my role, rather than finding me suspicious for it (which later changes to once he realises his mistake). "
(6:38:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: I wonder if I could get away with saying something like that. ¬_¬
(6:39:02 PM) patrickgower2006: to who?
(6:39:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: Good question.
(6:41:43 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not a fan of xtoxm's play or yos's case against him
(6:42:11 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't understand why RV voted corio
(6:42:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: I still find myself thinking Xtoxm is town, but I worry that I wouldn't be able to catch him if he wasn't.
(6:43:14 PM) patrickgower2006: my only concern with that is your read is probably largely not based on what he's done at all
(6:43:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: Exactly.
(6:44:42 PM) patrickgower2006: if dahill is scum and has buds trying to distract from it, they're being awfully relaxed about it
(6:44:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm?
(6:45:31 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito, Yos2, Glork. All of these have basically dismissed the case against him entirely
(6:45:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(6:46:14 PM) patrickgower2006: if any of these are scum, they seem more like they're defending a townie than a buddy to me, just based on how they're doing it
(6:46:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(6:46:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: I kind of see where you're coming from.
(6:47:29 PM) patrickgower2006: there isn't exactly a huge pool of alternatives though. HHim or Xtoxm or Corio
(6:47:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Charter's odd.
(6:47:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I still think the case against corio is alot of noise
(6:47:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: "226 - I don't like Corio's extreme buddying up and apologizing for something he doesn't need to apologize about. Sounds like he just wants to please everybody. "
(6:48:30 PM) patrickgower2006: what did he apologise for?
(6:48:38 PM) patrickgower2006: apologising doesn't seem like his thing this game
(6:49:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: "quotations were a mistake and i apologize for them. the point still stands." That can't possibly be it.
(6:49:53 PM) patrickgower2006: why?
(6:50:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i do suffer from tunnel vision. and maybe you're right; maybe i haven't engaged enough or have been aggressive enough. but i think that's an indication of a mistake, and not of being scummy. because the intent is certainly there. " Also apologetic tone.
(6:51:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: "i don't think this is an accurate depiction of my behavior. " You can practically smell the "I could be wrong" disclaimer here. :P
(6:51:21 PM) patrickgower2006: actiually that first point. Why he did he apologise on that?
(6:51:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Oh.
(6:51:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Who is this directed at, and where did that person refer to the wagon as "useless"? Nowhere between pages 6 and 9 was that word ever used, aside from your post. For someone who just bitched to me about "oratorical gymnastics," you have chosen your misquote rather poorly." was the question.
(6:52:11 PM) patrickgower2006: I thought that was mere semantics
(6:52:17 PM) patrickgower2006: unless I'm missing the point
(6:52:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: If that doesn't answer your question, I think it's--yeah, pretty much.
(6:52:42 PM) patrickgower2006: so charter's point is valid
(6:52:47 PM) patrickgower2006: he didn't need to apologise
(6:52:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: But stupid.
(6:53:07 PM) patrickgower2006: eh, unecessary apologising could mean something
(6:53:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh.
(6:53:32 PM) patrickgower2006: why not?
(6:54:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: It just seems unimportant.
(6:54:45 PM) patrickgower2006: dunno, funny contrast after all the stick he gave him
(6:55:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: Still eh.
(6:56:41 PM) patrickgower2006: might worth asking corio what changed his mind on primate from very town to not notworthy and could possibly be wagonned
(6:59:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Note to self: deadline is the 30th.
(6:59:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm being encouraged to go downstairs and eat.
(7:01:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: I still think Dahill's contradiction is really bad.
(7:01:34 PM) patrickgower2006: please do post something though. It seems better if you do this one
(7:01:42 PM) patrickgower2006: something today*
(7:01:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(7:02:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: I probably will.
(7:02:41 PM) patrickgower2006: enjoy your meal

[...]

(10:36:36 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't like EA's last post btw
(10:37:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think when I do make a post, it'll be mostly questions.
(10:37:59 PM) patrickgower2006: that;s fine, I'm just saying
(10:38:18 PM) patrickgower2006: he completely misrep the case against dahill
(10:39:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm creeped out by the lack of attention to Dahill's contradiction.
(10:39:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know you sort of accept it, but I don't really get why.
(10:40:02 PM) patrickgower2006: well
(10:40:23 PM) patrickgower2006: he says he was just acknowledging a different point of view in the MD thread
(10:40:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(10:40:42 PM) patrickgower2006: not that he agrees with it
(10:41:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: That's just not how the context of the post reads at all.
(10:41:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1399708
(10:41:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: You don't do something like that when you actually agree with a person.
(10:41:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: *disagree
(10:42:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: *agree
(10:42:17 PM) patrickgower2006: disagree
(10:42:25 PM) patrickgower2006: is what you want in there
(10:42:27 PM) patrickgower2006: ?
(10:42:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: By "a person," I meant Animorpherv.
(10:42:41 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(10:43:01 PM) patrickgower2006: well, I agree it's an iffy explanation
(10:43:21 PM) patrickgower2006: feel free to hammer it in again
(10:44:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: I guess if people are arguing that he has a really really powerful compulsion to kiss Glork's ass at every possible turn...
(10:44:21 PM) patrickgower2006: wouldn't surprise me
(10:44:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: Even then, it wouldn't explain the lack of reaction.
(10:45:01 PM) patrickgower2006: you're the one who called that null!
(10:45:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: I did?
(10:45:23 PM) patrickgower2006: his lack of reaction to Glork casting unexplained vote
(10:45:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: I didn't mean that.
(10:46:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: I mean how EA and Glork and Incognito and Yosarian aren't actually addressing this contradiction.
(10:47:01 PM) patrickgower2006: hammah it in again
(10:47:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(10:47:17 PM) patrickgower2006: I can't help but dislike xtoxm's play
(10:47:39 PM) patrickgower2006: he's not trying to convince anyone that yos2 slipped at all. He's being obstinate and trying to avoid fleshing it out
(10:47:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: I know. X_X
(10:48:11 PM) patrickgower2006: not that dahill/xtoxm is impossible, of course
(10:48:24 PM) patrickgower2006: nothing to make me doubt it
(10:48:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(10:48:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: I wasn't even considering that.
(10:49:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh.
(10:49:07 PM) patrickgower2006: well, no reason not to
(10:49:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: I guess the deadline has its plus points after all.
(10:49:30 PM) patrickgower2006: dahill's xtox vote is late and with crap reason. Xtoxm doesn't want to vote dahill
(10:50:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah...
(10:50:15 PM) patrickgower2006: anyway, I'd better get to bed
(10:50:18 PM) patrickgower2006: goodnight
(10:50:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: *waves*
(10:50:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: It's not even 4 there. :P
(10:50:36 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(10:51:12 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

(6:29:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: Probably just gonna find all the people who have not referenced Dahill's contradiction and ask them about it.
(6:30:04 PM) patrickgower2006: mm#
(6:30:44 PM) patrickgower2006: why is Incognito on board with a corio wagon
(6:31:02 PM) patrickgower2006: why do his posts seem alternately protown then sleazy
(6:31:13 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'd guess the Simenewb thing.
(6:31:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think I'm going to start calling Corio that now.
(6:31:29 PM) patrickgower2006: newb thing?
(6:31:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Simenewb.
(6:31:43 PM) patrickgower2006: no, I mean what is that
(6:31:52 PM) CaffieneDeity: Corio being an IC.
(6:32:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't agree with Incognito's take, though.
(6:32:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Coriolanus's reveal as Simenon really bothers me as I know Simenon is an experienced player and therefore I'm really questioning what it was he was trying to get at earlier when he mentioned that the lack of Glork death "really disappointed" him. "
(6:32:43 PM) patrickgower2006: that's just trying to stir the pot early
(6:32:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: As an IC, it's less scummy that Simenon acted the way he did, since he knew it wasn't gonna work. Certainly not under our playerlist.
(6:33:12 PM) patrickgower2006: that's worth questioning too
(6:33:20 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Kay.
(6:33:27 PM) patrickgower2006: just early game trolling, hardly seems that concerning
(6:33:43 PM) patrickgower2006: he obviously wasn't actually trying to kill Glork
(6:52:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: What's the difference between Simenon's town and scum play?
(6:52:35 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(6:52:48 PM) patrickgower2006: well, as scum he uses certain common words alot more
(6:52:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hey, you've seen him as both.
(6:52:58 PM) patrickgower2006: it makes it trivially easy to tell his alignment
(6:53:15 PM) patrickgower2006: as scum, I've always seen him as a buser
(6:53:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah.
(6:53:47 PM) patrickgower2006: he also likes to stand strongly against townie lynch on day 1 without doing too much about it (Miztef in communique, Zeppo in mafia 70)
(6:54:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: ¬_¬
(6:54:37 PM) patrickgower2006: for these reasons I don't see him being scum with Xtoxm unless there's a very conscious effort to go against a meta he thinks people have on him
(6:55:31 PM) CaffieneDeity: That qualifier doesn't really work since he was initially not known to be Simenon.
(6:56:04 PM) patrickgower2006: unless he intended to be found or was just worried he'd slip eventually
(6:56:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(6:56:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't think they are scumbuddies anyway
(6:56:35 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't have a good alignment telling meta on him really

[...]

(7:32:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: What was Simenon like as town in Freedom Force?
(7:33:16 PM) patrickgower2006: not bad
(7:33:40 PM) patrickgower2006: got bored at some point in the middle, but so did alot of people
(7:39:07 PM) patrickgower2006: he did stand against the day 1 town wagon too
(7:39:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yay.
(7:39:21 PM) patrickgower2006: mind, the aioqwe wagon was obviously bull
(7:41:04 PM) patrickgower2006: lol, I remember this, he attacked wile on entry for making a joke that was worded badly
(7:41:29 PM) patrickgower2006: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 93#1086193
(7:42:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: What joke?
(7:42:46 PM) patrickgower2006: hm
(7:42:49 PM) patrickgower2006: not sure actually
(7:43:26 PM) patrickgower2006: oh, posts 24 and 26 in the game
(7:46:03 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(8:07:56 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.
(8:12:03 PM) CaffieneDeity: Made a small post.
(8:12:12 PM) patrickgower2006: SMALL
(8:12:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Small.
(8:12:24 PM) patrickgower2006: small
(8:12:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(8:14:07 PM) patrickgower2006: good call on primate
(8:14:19 PM) patrickgower2006: however, I don't actually know why
(8:14:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.
(8:14:40 PM) patrickgower2006: well, he's certainly been fairly useless lately
(8:14:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...true.
(8:15:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh. Still don't think he's scum.
(8:15:31 PM) patrickgower2006: no, that's exactly my point

[...]

(8:59:56 PM) patrickgower2006: yos2 asked you for clarification
(9:00:09 PM) patrickgower2006: seems like he's bobbed right over the main point against dahill again
(9:01:53 PM) patrickgower2006: Corio weird, responds to charter's comments which are clearly against dahill, seems to think they're meant against him
(9:02:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Heh.

[...]

(9:08:25 PM) patrickgower2006: charter saw your point on dahill
(9:08:30 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe everyone just missed it
(9:08:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(9:08:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: It kept coming up.
(9:09:08 PM) patrickgower2006: you'll be surprised what people can miss
(9:09:45 PM) patrickgower2006: as far as I can tell, yos2 just quoted your last and didn't even seem to acknowledge that point, instead just saying that he has no problem with dahill sheeping
(9:09:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Pretty much.
(9:10:14 PM) patrickgower2006: that seems odd coming from him. Encouraging anti-town play

[...]

(9:33:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Posted again.
(9:34:13 PM) patrickgower2006: did we win
(9:34:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Not yet.
(9:34:30 PM) patrickgower2006: =(
(9:34:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: ._.
(9:34:42 PM) patrickgower2006: still, you're guaranteeing we will win
(9:35:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: I make no promises. ._.
(9:36:29 PM) patrickgower2006: he'll probably ask you to clarify
(9:36:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'll probably scream.
(9:36:52 PM) patrickgower2006: and he'll explain that dahill always sheeps
(9:37:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: And punch something.
(9:37:18 PM) patrickgower2006: poor, poor sisters
(9:37:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: They deserve it. ¬_¬
(9:37:43 PM) patrickgower2006: in on the conspiracy seems likely
(9:37:53 PM) patrickgower2006: of course, we're in on the conspiracy and we're town...
(9:38:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: We could drive OGML west.
(9:38:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: So that the deadline would hit a few hours later.
(9:39:56 PM) patrickgower2006: or kill him
(9:40:51 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't think it'll come to that.
(9:40:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: Unless he is Caesar.
(9:40:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...is he?
(9:41:01 PM) patrickgower2006: >.>

(6:04:52 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed on.
(6:11:37 PM) patrickgower2006: you there?
(6:11:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(6:12:01 PM) patrickgower2006: interesting reply from yos2, not what I expected
(6:12:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Trouble is, Dahill isn't actually here.
(6:12:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: Forgot that.
(6:12:51 PM) patrickgower2006: and out of nowhere he agrees that Glork looks suspect but says Glork isn't likely with Xtoxm. Interesting too
(6:13:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(6:13:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't really see Glork with dahill or Corio. I could see him with Xtoxm
(6:14:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Yes, I understand the case against him. You're trying to say that there's a contradiction between dahill1's reasoning that he used to vote for Tuberkulos and what he mentioned in the forum topic you found in Mafia Discussion. I don't see the contradiction though; in the Mafia Discussion topic, dahill1 doesn't seem to lean one way or another on Glork's post that he quoted from ZazieR's GTKAS thread. He doesn't mention anything about "endorsing this product and/or service" or anything like that. He seems to just be presenting the alternate viewpoint." Déjà vu, but wow.
(6:14:42 PM) patrickgower2006: to be fair, this was what I suggested too
(6:14:59 PM) CaffieneDeity: Bah.
(6:15:03 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't think it's open and shut as he seems to claim here, but I could see it
(6:15:33 PM) patrickgower2006: one of Glork's defences for dahill was weird, I recall
(6:15:56 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe even both since I don't remember dahill using either of them himself
(6:16:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: Correct.
(6:16:26 PM) CaffieneDeity: His defense was basically "I quoted Glork for the hell of it but I don't agree with him."
(6:17:12 PM) patrickgower2006: see, this I could see possibly being true, but it's still kind of odd. If he acknowledges it as a major opposing point of view, it's a lame reason to vote someone in a game
(6:20:45 PM) patrickgower2006: I had this outside feeling EA and RV could be scumbuddies because of the dissonance and because EA is just sparring with him but not trying to get anyone to vote him
(6:21:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm like totally blanking them out. X_X
(6:21:27 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm trying to get more out of EA
(6:21:33 PM) patrickgower2006: don't blank them out.
(6:21:39 PM) patrickgower2006: EA is playing weirdly
(6:21:43 PM) patrickgower2006: RV is neutral
(6:22:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: I agree that I shouldn't.
(6:22:17 PM) patrickgower2006: not todays lynch or anything. just looking for more info there
(6:22:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(6:22:29 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm curious why yos2 suspects glork
(7:09:01 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(7:45:46 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.
(8:00:19 PM) patrickgower2006 has gone away.
(8:08:43 PM) patrickgower2006 is no longer away.
(8:35:45 PM) patrickgower2006: so is dahill completely away now?
(8:35:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: I believe so.
(8:36:00 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm iffy on lynching someone without a claim
(8:36:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: ...true.
(8:36:24 PM) patrickgower2006: interesting that EA voted him
(8:36:38 PM) CaffieneDeity: Last post anywhere on the 23rd. All right.
(8:37:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: Can we lynch Incognito? ¬_¬
(8:37:27 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(8:37:31 PM) patrickgower2006: wouldn't happen
(8:37:34 PM) CaffieneDeity: Aww.
(8:37:46 PM) patrickgower2006: what's he done to upset you anyway?
(8:38:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Yes, I understand the case against him. You're trying to say that there's a contradiction between dahill1's reasoning that he used to vote for Tuberkulos and what he mentioned in the forum topic you found in Mafia Discussion. I don't see the contradiction though; in the Mafia Discussion topic, dahill1 doesn't seem to lean one way or another on Glork's post that he quoted from ZazieR's GTKAS thread. He doesn't mention anything about "endorsing this product and/or service" or anything like that. He seems to just be presenting the alternate viewpoint."
(8:38:29 PM) CaffieneDeity: I just find it extremely difficult to believe that he'd accept this as town.
(8:39:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I agree it seems rather definite
(8:39:20 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork is the same
(8:39:38 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't see either of them partnered with dahill
(8:39:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glork's defense wasn't what Dahill actually said.
(8:39:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: Eh.
(8:39:54 PM) patrickgower2006: I know. That's whats weird
(8:39:58 PM) patrickgower2006: he put words in his mouth
(8:43:53 PM) patrickgower2006: so what do we do?
(8:44:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(8:44:47 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm willing to vote Xtoxm, but I still kinda think he's town.
(8:45:36 PM) patrickgower2006: alternatives are to stay on dahill, which I'm not thrilled with if he cant even defend himself or claim, or to vote Corio, against whom I don't see a case
(8:51:33 PM) patrickgower2006: either way, what dyou plan on saying to Incognito for why you think primeape is town?
(8:52:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: Uh.
(8:52:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Probably (shrug).
(8:52:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: Or "There is this noise I make in real life that I would replicate here if I could."
(8:54:22 PM) patrickgower2006: he urgently needs to post something worth reading though
(8:55:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm now filtering his posts and not seeing a good response.
(8:55:55 PM) patrickgower2006: I'm not surprised

[...]

(9:41:26 PM) patrickgower2006: I'd better get to bed. Are you posting in SPQR?
(9:42:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(9:42:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: If you don't, I will.
(9:42:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: But I'd rather not.
(9:42:50 PM) patrickgower2006: why rather not? I thought you were enjoying it
(9:43:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: The post will require me to eat a lot of words.
(9:43:46 PM) patrickgower2006: why?
(9:43:55 PM) patrickgower2006: have ypu changed your mind on something
(9:44:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Voting Xtoxm, mostly.
(9:45:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: I feel kinda bad having to combine that and "Actually, filtering Primate's posts for content, disregard that," though I wouldn't be too bothered with either independently.
(9:47:11 PM) patrickgower2006: eh, just post your other observations and we'll decide about the vote tomorrow. You're clearly not sold on switching to Xtoxm, so the fairer compromise is to stay on dahill, except for the complication that he may not be able to claim
(9:49:31 PM) patrickgower2006: alright then, goodnight
(9:49:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: *waves*
(9:50:58 PM) patrickgower2006: there was I hanging on for that last bit :P
(9:51:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: I'm bugging OGML again realizing the lack of claim.
(9:51:22 PM) CaffieneDeity: Obviously it won't work, though.
(9:51:41 PM) patrickgower2006: if it doesn't ask him to clarify when deadine hits exactly if he hasn't yet
(9:51:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(9:52:03 PM) patrickgower2006: night
(9:52:07 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.

(1:58:59 PM) patrickgower2006: I have to admit I feel no more comfortable on Xtoxm than I did on dahill
(1:59:18 PM) patrickgower2006: stupid deadline
(2:00:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: I honestly expect him to be town.
(2:00:17 PM) patrickgower2006: gah
(2:00:30 PM) patrickgower2006: would you be on dahill if on your own?
(2:00:34 PM) patrickgower2006: despite the no claim
(2:00:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(2:00:57 PM) patrickgower2006: who then? If asked to vig someone I'd probably kill Glork, but I don't see him being lynched
(2:01:40 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(2:01:45 PM) CaffieneDeity: Probably Xtoxm.
(2:01:59 PM) patrickgower2006: his last post read town to me
(2:02:09 PM) patrickgower2006: can we kill OGML
(2:02:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Or I'd freeze up and not post since it was so close to deadline anyway. Knowing me. (shrug)
(2:02:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, we can't. ._.
(2:02:21 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(2:02:36 PM) patrickgower2006: I'll let you skip off anyway
(2:02:42 PM) patrickgower2006: we can lament this later
(2:02:44 PM) patrickgower2006: X_X
(2:04:54 PM) CaffieneDeity: "I've not really been as certain of his scumminess as i've been making out, but I could see him being scum." This just reminded me that Xtoxm probably has a funny accent.
(2:05:06 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:05:16 PM) patrickgower2006: I wonder where he's from
(2:05:21 PM) patrickgower2006: in the UK
(2:05:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Don't think I've ever seen an American using the phrase "I've not." Though I could be wrong.
(2:05:55 PM) patrickgower2006: what does Glork's question to you mean?
(2:06:14 PM) patrickgower2006: I've not may be good english speak
(2:06:19 PM) patrickgower2006: ^_^
(2:06:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think it's exactly what it stated, which is trivial and he didn't answer my question.
(2:06:43 PM) patrickgower2006: so it's....
(2:07:09 PM) patrickgower2006: if you had a problem with dahill's excuse (which you did), why are you now asking us to look at his contradiction?
(2:07:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Apparently.
(2:07:21 PM) patrickgower2006: that makes no sense
(2:07:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: It definitely doesn't have anything to do with penguins.
(2:07:53 PM) patrickgower2006: thats a bizarre question
(2:07:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(2:08:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes, it is.
(2:08:44 PM) patrickgower2006: oh well, we'll be nightkilled soon
(2:08:47 PM) patrickgower2006: X_X
(2:10:02 PM) patrickgower2006: glork just posted
(2:10:33 PM) patrickgower2006: still don't get the point of his question, lol
(2:11:00 PM) patrickgower2006: nor do I really agree with the second paragraph
(2:11:09 PM) patrickgower2006: damn this is bothersome
(2:17:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: Posted.
(2:17:50 PM) patrickgower2006: did dahill vote cor?
(2:18:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(2:18:44 PM) patrickgower2006: does that refer to tubervote or xtoxmvote?
(2:19:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: Tuberk.
(2:19:46 PM) CaffieneDeity: I posted.
(2:19:58 PM) patrickgower2006: your sig in your last post is too plain
(2:20:01 PM) patrickgower2006: tsk
(2:20:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Psh.
(2:20:28 PM) patrickgower2006: "I will also point out that Xtoxm's apathy towards his apparent lynch reads MUCH more scum than town. If he were genuinely town and he were genuinely "leaning scum" on Dahill, he would be voting Dahill instead of me. Xtox + Corio + Pathetric + Tuber would be six on Dahill, and hill would be the lynch of the day. "

(2:20:39 PM) patrickgower2006: this reason applies equally if xtoxm-scum dahill-town
(2:20:53 PM) patrickgower2006: this can only be used to argue for a xtoxm/dahill connection, at most
(2:22:27 PM) patrickgower2006: by that I mean I feel like the paragraph could easily be used to argue Xtoxm is town, as well
(2:22:53 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(2:34:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well.
(2:35:08 PM) patrickgower2006: well?
(2:35:10 PM) CaffieneDeity: Xtoxm's dead.
(2:35:16 PM) patrickgower2006: he is?
(2:35:17 PM) patrickgower2006: shit
(2:36:48 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork is scum
(2:37:05 PM) CaffieneDeity: So scum.
(2:37:05 PM) patrickgower2006: I don't see any protown gut at all
(2:37:15 PM) patrickgower2006: even if xtoxm is scum, Glork is scum
(2:38:09 PM) patrickgower2006: how would that be minus points for us anyway if xtoxm is scum? we moved back onto him when dahill was bigger
(2:38:11 PM) patrickgower2006: bullshit
(2:39:00 PM) CaffieneDeity: You field this, I'm getting a late breakfast.
(2:39:05 PM) patrickgower2006: what do I say
(2:39:14 PM) patrickgower2006: are we allowed inbtwilight
(2:39:25 PM) patrickgower2006: Glorkscum regardless of xtoxm's alignment
(2:39:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: I don't see anything to the contrary.
(2:40:04 PM) patrickgower2006: ok
(2:40:05 PM) patrickgower2006: good
(2:40:44 PM) patrickgower2006: he posted to you again
(2:40:45 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(2:41:36 PM) CaffieneDeity: Shit. I misread "for the lulz" and now I don't get to have breakfast.
(2:42:03 PM) patrickgower2006: what did you think for the lulz meant
(2:42:24 PM) CaffieneDeity: I sort of ignored it.
(2:42:52 PM) patrickgower2006: oh
(2:43:39 PM) patrickgower2006: he's still scum. He's distracted from the xtoxm lynch as much as anyone with the corio thing. He's full of shit
(2:43:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(2:45:32 PM) patrickgower2006: he didn't even hang about to hear from primate
(2:45:39 PM) patrickgower2006: he is so getting tanked tomorrow
(2:48:34 PM) patrickgower2006: we even bought up the biggest reason to come off dahill, that he wouldn't be able to claim. How the fuck can he see us as pushing that as an easy distraction?
(2:48:48 PM) patrickgower2006: Xtoxm and dahill town, Glork scum is my guess
(2:49:01 PM) CaffieneDeity: Glorklynch > dahilllynch.
(2:50:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Wheeee he just signed out of AIM.
(2:50:36 PM) patrickgower2006: I know
(2:50:40 PM) patrickgower2006: still needs saying
(2:50:43 PM) CaffieneDeity: Ah, well. Go get him, Patrick!
(2:50:50 PM) patrickgower2006: I could see us being killed if xtoxm is town
(2:51:07 PM) CaffieneDeity: You and your aura of nightkill-drawing. ._.
(2:51:11 PM) patrickgower2006: ._.
(2:51:37 PM) CaffieneDeity: Anyway, my breakfast will need to be placed in a toaster first for a few minutes, so I don't have much time.
(2:51:54 PM) patrickgower2006: have you typed a response to what he asked?
(2:51:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(2:52:04 PM) patrickgower2006: if you just post that I can explain why he's scum
(2:52:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Explain it anyway.
(2:52:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think my misreading it covers my answer fine.
(2:52:42 PM) CaffieneDeity: Phone. Bye.
(2:52:44 PM) patrickgower2006: bye
(3:19:57 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed off.
(5:03:32 PM) patrickgower2006 has signed on.
(5:07:43 PM) patrickgower2006: no surprises with xtoxm
(5:09:05 PM) patrickgower2006: the mod is trying to make his alignment seem uncertain, which is odd
(5:09:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: He is?
(5:09:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: He did put him in green font.
(5:09:38 PM) patrickgower2006: he asks what side was he on?
(5:09:46 PM) patrickgower2006: our side
(5:09:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: Then he put him in green font.
(5:09:51 PM) patrickgower2006: hm
(5:09:51 PM) patrickgower2006: ok
(5:09:55 PM) patrickgower2006: Glork dies tomorrow
(5:09:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah.
(5:10:02 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito is probably with him
(5:10:03 PM) patrickgower2006: or yos2
(5:10:05 PM) patrickgower2006: or both
(5:10:06 PM) patrickgower2006: shudder
(5:10:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: ._.
(5:11:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Now I'm all wondering about my strategy of letting Xtoxm die.
(5:11:19 PM) CaffieneDeity: Dahill had better be a cop or something. ¬_¬
(5:11:26 PM) patrickgower2006: I feel stupid to be on this lynch at all
(5:11:32 PM) CaffieneDeity: Meh.
(5:11:32 PM) patrickgower2006: but I'm not sure there was a better option
(5:12:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: These heartless Jewish mods.
(5:12:06 PM) patrickgower2006: why did Glork hammer immediately? I could see what xtoxm suggested there being correct
(5:12:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well, if we die, then there you go.
(5:13:01 PM) patrickgower2006: well, we've said what we can
(5:13:06 PM) patrickgower2006: we need Incognito to be town, really
(5:13:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: Mm.
(5:13:10 PM) patrickgower2006: or yos2
(5:13:25 PM) patrickgower2006: by what he's said, yos2 should move onto Glork
(5:13:56 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yosarian as town would be nice.
(5:14:12 PM) CaffieneDeity: He started out badly in S&S2, too.
(5:14:21 PM) patrickgower2006: we need elmo or Thesp to replace into this
(5:14:23 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(5:14:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: We can get Thesp in while we're still alive!
(5:14:55 PM) CaffieneDeity: It'll be great. ^_^
(5:15:04 PM) patrickgower2006: maybe there's a doctor
(5:15:09 PM) CaffieneDeity: Unless he's scum. Thespscum scares me.
(5:15:47 PM) patrickgower2006: well, we're trying to ensure that at least one IC other than us is town
(5:15:56 PM) patrickgower2006: Glorkscum scared me, until I realised how obvious he is
(5:15:58 PM) patrickgower2006: <.<
(5:16:21 PM) CaffieneDeity: ^_^
(5:16:44 PM) CaffieneDeity: I liked it when Incognito was civilized.
(5:17:12 PM) patrickgower2006: I hope this isn't one of those games where scum are obvious and we can't get people to vote them
(5:17:30 PM) patrickgower2006: that's when we'd need to be two seperate players, for more weight
(5:18:04 PM) CaffieneDeity: We get nightkilled, and then each of us replaces in separately.
(5:18:08 PM) CaffieneDeity: It'll be great. :P
(5:18:10 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:19:04 PM) patrickgower2006: we'd never go after all the ICs as scum
(5:19:22 PM) patrickgower2006: thus it's obvious we're town. Probably inadvisable to make that argument though ;P
(5:19:41 PM) CaffieneDeity: ._.
(5:19:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: I think everyone except Glork thinks we're town anyway.
(5:20:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: And Glork also thinks we're town.
(5:20:05 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:20:19 PM) patrickgower2006: Incognito and corio are the only ones I recall saying it
(5:20:25 PM) CaffieneDeity: Like, unless we're a serial killer or something.
(5:20:30 PM) patrickgower2006: primate fosed us
(5:20:50 PM) CaffieneDeity: Well that was dumb.
(5:20:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: "Don't let him off the hook; he hasn't felt right today at all." You sound like MBL. :P
(5:21:02 PM) patrickgower2006: lol
(5:21:06 PM) patrickgower2006: what else to say?
(5:21:08 PM) patrickgower2006: it's true
(5:21:16 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yeah, but you still sound like MBL.
(5:21:26 PM) patrickgower2006: well, MBL would be right
(5:21:30 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes.
(5:21:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: MBL could replace in. ¬_¬
(5:22:00 PM) patrickgower2006: it's a shame he disappeared, I'd have loved to see him try to justify the theory that we were distracting from a xtoxm lynch by using dahill
(5:23:02 PM) CaffieneDeity: I didn't get that breakfast. ._.

[Ether]

There we go.

[Yosarian2]

I thought calling out the case he made on Corio was a good start. I'd definitely throw in the way too heavy handed approach with Xtoxm, but I guess we differ there. There were plenty of meta differences, but that's quite hard to persuade people with if they don't feel it, unless they're prepared to read alot of text, which people here weren't.

I suppose we could ask those who were town who read Xtoxm as town, what did you think of Glork pushing it with almost no backing up or second guessing at all? Did you just think he was being silly, and if so, why did you think that?

Hmmm...I donno, I kind of thought the Xtoxm thing was just what Glork would have done as town, and I thought the "Is corio an alt" thing was what he would have done as town. I really think the only big moment of divergence day 1 Glork made from his town playstyle was what he did after the "alt" thing; right at the point I started to think Corio was town, Glork suddenly started going after him harder, and that seemed like a scum mistake to me. Only reason I didn't go after Glork day 1 was because I was certain that Glork could not be scum with Xtoxm, and I was having a hard time seeing Xtoxm as possible town, especally when he just kept evading simple questions for no reason.

(5:07:43 PM) patrickgower2006: no surprises with xtoxm
(5:09:05 PM) patrickgower2006: the mod is trying to make his alignment seem uncertain, which is odd
(5:09:28 PM) CaffieneDeity: He is?
(5:09:33 PM) CaffieneDeity: He did put him in green font.
(5:09:38 PM) patrickgower2006: he asks what side was he on?
(5:09:46 PM) patrickgower2006: our side

That threw you guys too?

For like an hour after I saw the lynch, I was happily convinced we had lynched a scum, then I suddenly remember that "conspiritor" meant "townie" in this game.

[Ether]

Nah, just Patrick. :P

[Glork]

Yeah, not reading any of that anytime soon.

[destructor]

whereas Des seems to always think I'm scum

It's funny you mention that, he said your play was really close to Crackers, and I argued it was totally different.

I've only played with Yos twice (including this game). heh

I thought the way you were pushing the Xtoxm case had similarities to how you pushed the case on me in Crackers. There was a lot of denials and statements of arguments without elaboration, like you were hoping repetition would convince others or something, which I think is scummy.

But that was mostly minor. My entire list of suspects stemmed mostly from what happened with dahill in day 1 (and a bit of the Corio-alt thing). I couldn't see how anyone that was town could give dahill a pass for something he did that made no sense. It seemed pretty obvious that he was BS'ing, for whatever reason.

[Yosarian2]

whereas Des seems to always think I'm scum

It's funny you mention that, he said your play was really close to Crackers, and I argued it was totally different.

I've only played with Yos twice (including this game). heh

I thought the way you were pushing the Xtoxm case had similarities to how you pushed the case on me in Crackers.

(shrug) Perhaps. I think did mention after the game that I would have wagoned you the exact same way if I was town; perhaps you believe me now.

[destructor]

I checked the Crackers thread and you hadn't left any comments after the game. But yeah, I think Elmo mentioned that at some point to me, but I still thought I was onto some nuance of your play =/. I'll be more careful about reads of you in the future. I seems like I might have pushed the right lynch for some of the wrong reasons in Crackers. heh.