Mini 747 Over.

[Hoopla]

I am incredibly offended, but I would like to see you even

attempt

to justify it, given how it has no truth whatsoever.

Easy tiger, it's just a game. The main reason I think this is from an ongoing game we are now both dead in, and from reading through some of the newbie games you've IC'ed in. I encourage you to prove me wrong and show me your worth throughout this game. Maybe I have unreasonable expectations of people, but I have nothing to appologise for.

[SensFan]

I am incredibly offended, but I would like to see you even

attempt

to justify it, given how it has no truth whatsoever.

Easy tiger, it's just a game. The main reason I think this is from an ongoing game we are now both dead in, and from reading through some of the newbie games you've IC'ed in. I encourage you to prove me wrong and show me your worth throughout this game. Maybe I have unreasonable expectations of people, but I have nothing to appologise for.

So you can't link to a single game?

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla

[Hoopla]

Are you really voting me just because I think you're a bad player?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Count Number 9- "Remember the Alamo". And the deadline:
Khelvaster- (3)- Charter, ZazieR, Panzerjager
ZazieR- (2) -Cephir, Khelvaster
nicoliosgotpolio- (1) - Hoopla
ZEEnon- (1) - geraintm
Panzerjager - (1) -nicoliosgotpolio
SensFan- (1) - Erratus Apathos
Erratus Apathos- (1)- Shadow Knight
Hoopla- (1) -SensFan

Not Voting: ZEEnon
With 12 alive, 7 will lynch.

Deadline March 10 at 4:02 PM EST

[SensFan]

Are you really voting me just because I think you're a bad player?

Because you called me a bad player without being able to back it up at all, and because you are also scummy, irrelevant of that.

But humour me. Are you really saying its unacceptable for me to not have any completely new world-shattering views after replacing in to a 10+ page game?

[Hoopla]

Are you really voting me just because I think you're a bad player?

Because you called me a bad player without being able to back it up at all, and because you are also scummy, irrelevant of that.

But humour me. Are you really saying its unacceptable for me to not have any completely new world-shattering views after replacing in to a 10+ page game?

I'm not saying you need 'new world-shattering views', I'm stating it's simple to make a bunch of random assertions (see these types of posts;

this

,

this

,

this

etc) on the basis of other people's analysis. This is the luxury replacements have in games, picking and choosing what they want to respond to (it's essentially a lurk-pass) - and I'm not impressed with what you've chosen to submit when you joined, and since. Outside an OMGUS-based attack on EA, you haven't backed up

anything

, which is hilarious when your mantra when debating seems to revolve around definitive proof.

Why do you think I'm scummy?

[SensFan]

This is the luxury replacements have in games, picking and choosing what they want to respond to[/color]

Either point out specific things you want me to respond to, or shut the fuck up about me being a shit player. Preferably both.

Why do you think I'm scummy?

I don't have the time for a large post right now, but largely this attack on me, where you have fabricated every part of it. You claim I am lazy/shit player, you claim my attack on EA is OMGUS, you claim replacements are 'lucky' or 'have it easy'.

Let me guess...next you're going to claim the fact I'm Canadian positively influences people's perspective of me and that it should be held against me?

[Hoopla]

It's frustrating isn't it? Seeing statements being made with justification your peers just can't follow. I can imagine the way you feel now is similar to how I feel when I see you try and justify your claims (or dodge them).

I will give you credit though, for a crafty play of sneaking a vote on me, without ever mentioning suspicion of me prior to me 'insulting' you - and then leaving it there (presumably until deadline) without providing any reasons at all. Lets just cut to the chase - you're voting me because you're upset I don't think you're good at mafia, and you're now scrambling to find suspicion on me (or dodge it completely).

Anyway, this is becoming an unnecessary tangent considering you aren't even my lynch choice for today. Since you're pressed for time - don't reply to this and spend it finding a reason for your vote on me.

[charter]

Mod, how long until deadline?

FOS Hoopla. The only reason I can think that you could possibly get this worked up over one vote on herself, regardless of the reason, is being scum.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, how long until deadline?

24 hours and 38 minutes

[charter]

Ok, enough time to change to Hoopla. I'll vote Hoopla if others will too. Either Khelv or Hoopla is a great lynch today (also very possible scumbuddies as well if you go look at Hoopla's questioning of Panzers daycop claim).

[Cephrir]

I think I'm going to end up voting for Khelvaster or Zazie today. I'm pretty confident that at least one of them is scum and I don't like the other three-ish options.

[Hoopla]

Mod, how long until deadline?

FOS Hoopla. The only reason I can think that you could possibly get this worked up over one vote on herself, regardless of the reason, is being scum.

What do you think about Sens' and to a lesser extent Theinin's play so far?

[Shadow Knight]

I gotta say I also recognized the name sensfan and I don't recall him being a bad player at all. With that being said, I don't see how an assertion of a player's skill can/should be used against them, nor do I see why that assertion is worthy of a vote (or unvote if its good for that matter). I mean would you *not* vote for Hoopla if she started kissing your butt sens? Now, with *that* being said, if you want to form a cohesive case against Hoopla citing how she is acting scummy, I wouldn't mind reading it.

[charter]

I've seen nothing in Sens' to indicate scum. Theinin could maybe be scum, but nothing strong either way.

[SensFan]

With that being said, I don't see how an assertion of a player's skill can/should be used against them, nor do I see why that assertion is worthy of a vote (or unvote if its good for that matter). I mean would you *not* vote for Hoopla if she started kissing your butt sens?

Its not that she said it, persay. Its the way she said it. Especially given that I just replaced in near a deadline, it looked very much like she was trying to tell people I'm completely useless, which would probably (if anyone believed her) subconsciously affect what I say.

Now, with *that* being said, if you want to form a cohesive case against Hoopla citing how she is acting scummy, I wouldn't mind reading it.

Just got back from class, getting one done now.

[SensFan]

Why I am voting Hoopla, in no particular order:

*Trying to downplay me as a useless/shit player
*Saying Town should pressure useless/shit players
*Saying she doesn't want to lynch Scum D1
*Trying to generate a wagon on me, based on absolutely nothing
*Not voting me

In particular, look at the link between the first and second points. Then look at the hypocrisy between the fourth and fifth points. And the third point speaks for itself.

[Hoopla]

How am I trying to generate a wagon on you, when I'm not voting you? The reason this became so drawn out is due to your enquiry as to why I could be persuaded to vote for you. The point being I have higher priorities, but am open to other player's takes on your behaviour.

The third point - I'd love to lynch scum, but I'm more stating it can be a lottery sometimes without major slips, which makes other lynch factors come into play more.

[SensFan]

Who are you more likely to catch slipping up as scum, a weak player, or someone well established in the game? There is an element of 'panicked townie' that I've already talked about, and that should be taken into consideration.

[snip]

Activity, and potential helpfulness

should

weigh into a lynch decision on D1, when these lynches are closest to random.

I could be persuaded to SensFan

I know you have meta of being a shit/lazy

Maybe I have unreasonable expectations of people

I will give you credit though, for a crafty play of sneaking a vote on me, without ever mentioning suspicion of me prior to me 'insulting' you - and then leaving it there (presumably until deadline) without providing any reasons at all. Lets just cut to the chase - you're voting me because you're upset I don't think you're good at mafia, and you're now scrambling to find suspicion on me (or dodge it completely).

What do you think about Sens' and to a lesser extent Theinin's play so far?

No, not trying to generate a wagon on me at all...

[Erratus Apathos]

I'd still rather lynch Sens, but that's clearly not happening. I will respond before deadline, but I'm switching to my preferred wagon now just in case I

lose track of time playing marathon games

don't for whatever reason.

Unvote, Vote: Khelvaster

[geraintm]

I've seen nothing in Sens' to indicate scum. Theinin could maybe be scum, but nothing strong either way.

when he first joined, he put up a list of 4 people with no explanation really of why they were scummy. that was the worst thign he has done

vote hoopla

it is getting close to deadline and i am not here after mid-day today till friday, so i really wanted to get a proper vote in and i am afraid hoopla is the scummiest person i have seen in the game, mainly for his posts 16 and 19.

Khev, looked back over his posts, again like niclio trying to find out why everyone else thinks they look bad.

his post 11, well i wrote the same pretty much.
post 14, seems a contradiction with going after shadow who voted for the same person he did.
post 17, anotehr switch of a vote

but overall, i don't see much he has written i didn't agree with at the time. erratus' vote in post 319, i just can't see a reason except that erratus wants to be on the winning band wagon. really not impressed erratus.

[Erratus Apathos]

I couldn't care less if its page 1, 2, 3, 4, or 30. If someone should be lynched, they should be lynched.

I don't disagree (it's kinda hard to disagree with tautology). What's scummy is the way you acted

surprised

that she wasn't lynched on page four, when you've played way more than enough to know how rarely that happens.

I'm very confidant. You forget that I replaced in on page 10. Pretty much all there was to say about why she was very scummy had been said several times. That's what people do when they replace, they look back at what happened previously, and share whether or not they agree.

Yeah, and if they want to help the town, they share more than just "Why isn't so and so lynched yet? He's very obviously scum. Vote: so and so". I never fault a replacement whose initial posts are little more than QFTs, but this isn't even that. This is vote-and-run.

(Of course, losing confidence here seems to make sense - she hasn't been lynched, so of course it isn't self-explanatory that she should be lynched. And yet, Sens maintains that it is, just in a much more waffly way.)

You really aren't reading my posts, are you? You asked me for reasons why I thought nicolio should be lynched. If you didn't notice, about half the players in the game gave great reasons BEFORE I REPLACED IN. Do you really want me to go look for those posts, and copy-paste?

No, I'm really not reading your posts. I can't believe you caught me.

If you don't want to even copy and paste your reasons for lynching Nicolio, be my guest. It only serves to show how little effort you're willing to put into lynching extremely obvious scum.

There is almost no way that Sens is town and honestly believes he is contributing to a Nicolio-scum lynch with posts like these. Today's lynch is still up in the air - if he was even half as certain that Nicolio is scum as he's indicating, there's no way in hell he'd be content to say so little to actually get her lynched, especially now when it's close to deadline and the votes are very close. Bottom line: SensFan isn't interested in lynching scum, he's interested in staying out of the spotlight.

You have a very promising career in reporting or politics ahead of you, because that's some absolutely amazing spin-doctoring. I made 4 posts on Thursday (when I did my read), 3 more posts are Friday, to quickly answer questions on why I suspected people. I didn't post yesterday because I have a life, and all of a sudden 'I'm staying out of the spotlight close to deadline, and not interested in lynching Scum'? What about geraintm who has posted no content at all since Thursday, and really hasn't done much at all but jump on people for using their votes?

You didn't post in this game on Saturday because you have a life? That didn't stop you from playing in Mini 738, Newbie 748, or Open 121, nor from playing a couple games of Magic.

But that's beside the point. You did indeed make seven posts before your off day. All seven of which read like you're trying to post as little as possible. And I don't mean that in the sense that you're keeping your points concise, I mean that in the sense that you're avoiding making them altogether.

But yeah,

Unvote, Vote: EA

. Sorry, but next time you want to pull together a deadline lynch of someone who replaced in, you might want to pick someone else, or at least try to make decent points.

No thanks, I think I'll stick with trying to make shitty points

@Sens- I've been reading along. If I had a reaction to something, I would have said so at that time. With that being said...

You know, after that last post from EA, I'm gonna have to

unvote, vote EA

I refuse to believe that you *could* misread what I wrote so badly. I never said not to press lurkers to talk, I said they shouldn't be hunted and voted out. Even if you weren't blatantly misrepresenting what I just said, I'd be voting you for the rest of that post.

Ugh. If I had a dollar for every time I was accused of misrepresenting someone, I'd go to the dollar store, buy the sharpest items there, and throw them at anyone who accuses me of misrepresenting them. It's a stupid horse shit tell. Even when I'm scum, if I know what another player was trying to say, I don't intentionally misrepresent them. You know why?

Because it's fucking impossible to accomplish anything at all by misrepresenting a player.

Think about it... the misrepresented player would simply clarify what he meant, rendering anything based on the misrepresentation invalid. It's a terrible, god-awful plan and almost no scum actually use it.

Conversely, honest misinterpretation happens all the time. If you really think you're above being misinterpreted, you seriously need to get the fuck over yourself.

I am incredibly offended, but I would like to see you even

attempt

to justify it, given how it has no truth whatsoever.

Easy tiger, it's just a game. The main reason I think this is from an ongoing game we are now both dead in, and from reading through some of the newbie games you've IC'ed in. I encourage you to prove me wrong and show me your worth throughout this game. Maybe I have unreasonable expectations of people, but I have nothing to appologise for.

So you can't link to a single game?

Unvote, Vote: Hoopla

Everyone, pay close attention to this. SensFan said he was "very confident" that Nicolio was scum, going so far as to say he should be lynched page 4. Then he hopped off to OMGUS me, and now he's hopped off that to OMGUS Hoopla, forgetting his suspicion on Nicolio entirely. "Very confident" my ass, Sens has been hopping votes every time the wind changes direction. It's painfully obvious how full of shit he is.

FOS Hoopla. The only reason I can think that you could possibly get this worked up over one vote on herself, regardless of the reason, is being scum.

So townies always quietly accept their own lynch?

but overall, i don't see much he has written i didn't agree with at the time. erratus' vote in post 319, i just can't see a reason except that erratus wants to be on the winning band wagon. really not impressed erratus.

My reasoning was in 271. No matter how unimpressed you are with my vote, I'm less impressed with yours. Or anyone voting Hoopla for that matter. Lynching people for having "wrong" opinions is dumb as dirt. People don't display different opinions as scum than as town; they definitely behave differently as scum, but they don't come right out and say "hey everyone I'm using my scum-logic". Even if he's scum (I highly doubt it) his opinion is an emulation of his town play. Learn how tells work please.

[Erratus Apathos]

Actually, I'll save you the effort and just repost my reason for voting Khelv.

Cephrir, you are definitely on to something. It seems Zazier and EA both thought Hoopla was fine while Nicolios was scummy, despite the relative similarities of their slipups. Zazier was much more blatant about defending Hoopla, whereas EA didn't mention him once, so I'll

Vote: Zazier

Teaming up on noobs is a classic scumtell.

Erratus Apathos, while not voting for Nicolios, still suspected her while letting Hoopla off the hook. He decided to target the other noob, SK.

Not only does Khelv not even know why I voted Nicolio (it was because she wasn't answering that one question), but he baselessly assigns me another reason altogether. And then he keeps harping on about how Nicolio and SK are newbies for no good reason at all. Newbies are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, so I assume he pulled this dumb "suspecting newbies is a scumtell!" shit out of his ass.

Unvote
Vote: SensFan
FoS: Khelvaster

[SensFan]

Everyone, pay close attention to this. SensFan said he was "very confident" that Nicolio was scum, going so far as to say he should be lynched page 4. Then he hopped off to OMGUS me, and now he's hopped off that to OMGUS Hoopla, forgetting his suspicion on Nicolio entirely. "Very confident" my ass, Sens has been hopping votes every time the wind changes direction. It's painfully obvious how full of shit he is.

After my read, Nicolio was most likely Scum.
After the pile of BS you pulled on me, you were most likely Scum.
After Hoopla's even worse points against me, she was most likely Scum.

Its not OMGUS at all.

[Khelvaster]

Uhm, Khel? Please explain your vote again after you've taken a look at my quote:

As for now, I'm going to Vote Nicoliosgotpolio
In my opinion she deserves it more than Khel and Hoopla for the reasons given.

Above you see my top 3 of scummy players after I had read the game. I also gave my reasons why I thought that Hoopla is scummy. So where did you get the impression that I thought that Hoopla was fine?
Also, a 'I think W is (newbie)town, therefore I think Y is scum' comment is a classic scumtell, while my vote has a basis. Besides, from the look of your post in which you voted me, you didn't even look at my case against Nicolios.
It's also interested to see that you, just like Cephrir, only make a drama out of it much later after I voted. Why is that?

Actually, you're so damn lying and making BS cases against me and eratus.

Unvote Vote Khelvaster

Look at this:

So, essentially what you are saying is that voting for the worst players and the noncontributors is scummy, even on the first day.

I must disagree. If you don't vote for the people who made the scummiest slips, who do you vote for? Those who made the second scummiest slips? The best players? Those who are most active?

You're way too experienced for me to reasonably chalk this up to noobness.

Vote: Shadow Knight

Khel, do I need to make a detailed version of your lie from this post and the one where you voted me, or can you spot it yourself? I think you can also find out why your case against me and Eratus is BS from this quote, right? Start explaining!

You're totally right. After seeing you defend yourself, I can't really justify a case against you. When looking at your posts, I didn't see that you had a second page to your posts. Going back and looking at your posts again, you suddenly got *much* less scummy in my eyes.

unvote

@EA- Are you seriously telling me that you've never been town and gotten talked into lynching a lurker? If so, I guess I have to give you props, but I know I've been on both sides of that one. I have been both scum trying to get a lurker lynched and town being duped into lynching a lurker.

Yes, I've been talked into lynching lurkers. (I haven't been talked out of lynching lurkers yet, incidentally. That means you Cephrir.) But, if town can be talked into lynching lurkers, that must mean there is logic that can convince a townie to vote off lurkers. Why can't the player leading the way be a townie guided by this logic?

Not saying he can't be. I'm saying he shouldn't be. Town is here to hunt scum, not lurkers. While the two groups are not always mutually exclusive, neither are they always synonymous.

Okay, so if your point is just that townies

shouldn't

attack lurkers, rather than

don't

or

rarely

, why are you voting Hoopla for doing it?

Read through page 4. How is Nico not lynched yet?

"We're on page four and it's still day one? Do you guys even know how to play this game?"

nico still needs to be lynched.

Probab;y pretty self-explanitory, I would think.

Amazing: a six word sentence where one word serves as the message (the message being that he doesn't have to explain why he's voting for nicolio ) and

all

other words serve to dilute that message. For someone displaying shock that she wasn't lynched four pages in, SensFan doesn't appear all that confident.

(Of course, losing confidence here seems to make sense - she hasn't been lynched, so of course it isn't self-explanatory that she should be lynched. And yet, Sens maintains that it is, just in a much more waffly way.)

There is almost no way that Sens is town and honestly believes he is contributing to a Nicolio-scum lynch with posts like these. Today's lynch is still up in the air - if he was even half as certain that Nicolio is scum as he's indicating, there's no way in hell he'd be content to say so little to actually get her lynched, especially now when it's close to deadline and the votes are very close. Bottom line: SensFan isn't interested in lynching scum, he's interested in staying out of the spotlight.

Cephrir, you are definitely on to something. It seems Zazier and EA both thought Hoopla was fine while Nicolios was scummy, despite the relative similarities of their slipups. Zazier was much more blatant about defending Hoopla, whereas EA didn't mention him once, so I'll

Vote: Zazier

Teaming up on noobs is a classic scumtell.

Erratus Apathos, while not voting for Nicolios, still suspected her while letting Hoopla off the hook. He decided to target the other noob, SK.

Not only does Khelv not even know why I voted Nicolio (it was because she wasn't answering that one question), but he baselessly assigns me another reason altogether. And then he keeps harping on about how Nicolio and SK are newbies for no good reason at all. Newbies are just as likely to be scum as anyone else, so I assume he pulled this dumb "suspecting newbies is a scumtell!" shit out of his ass.

Suspecting newbies who really are playing badly, but still town, is a scumtell. You were trying to extort an answer from her out of one question that wasn't answered. She had no idea what you were talking about, iirc. Anyway, I shouldn't have mentioned you as being as scummy as I said. That was a mistake on my part. You've defended yourself more than adequately.


With that said, I'll vote for the guy I should have been voting for all along. You can reference my post on page 11 to see why.

vote: hoopla