Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Jebus]

And you would have speculated because I'd asked, and if it has to do with watching mindset, that doesn't make a difference at this time, being so close to deadline.

I don't understand what you are saying. Please re explain.

Sekinj would have made speculations about why you were withholding your protection because watching for reactions on it doesn't make much difference, being so far away from that and so close to deadline.

Really, you guys have been beating around the bush as to why for a while, with me on the outside, getting more and more confused >.<

[springlullaby]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

Well, I can tell you that you are far from marking townie point with me and I don't remember giving you any such credit at any point in the game.

[springlullaby]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

[sekinj]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

Well, I can tell you that you are far from marking townie point with me and I don't remember giving you any such credit at any point in the game.

I'm just talking specifically about that one post. Do you think my clarification was necessary in our conversation, or just fluff on my part? post 525.

[sekinj]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

well, the deadline has been effective in my mind since it is actually making you play instead of lurk. if we get closer and are active, I'm sure we will be able to request an extension.

[TonyMontana]

Deltaflyer

replaces

DO

[springlullaby]

@spring: Do you think my post 525 was just me trying to be townie, or did you think that in our conversation the clarification was necessary?

sekinj, why are you asking me this?

because several players are saying that my 525 was just a chance for me to get townie points. however, in the context of our conversation, I felt like it was important to point out that I was pressuring you to play, NOT pressuring you to reveal. Being the other person involved, I was wondering if you felt that that distinction was necessary or if from your point of view I was simply getting townie points as well.

Well, I can tell you that you are far from marking townie point with me and I don't remember giving you any such credit at any point in the game.

I'm just talking specifically about that one post. Do you think my clarification was necessary in our conversation, or just fluff on my part? post 525.

I think it may be either and think it's hard to tell.

What strikes as more potentially scummy here is you asking me for my opinion. Because my being part of the conversation doesn't necessarily mean that my opinion would be more correct. And I think you may be fishing for arbitrage from me to avoid speaking up for yourself, which is definitively scummy.

[sekinj]

I've already spoken up for myself.

[sekinj]

in 527 and 538 I defend myself. but people still questioned it, so in 545 I asked what you thought sinc eyou were involved. As yes, sinc eyou were involved I thought you'd be able to give a better answer on whether you thought the clarification was necessary. however, i had to ask you 3 times before you answered clearly.

[springlullaby]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

well, the deadline has been effective in my mind since it is actually making you play instead of lurk. if we get closer and are active, I'm sure we will be able to request an extension.

Oh so for you getting me to play was a priority? If so, you are verily full of shit.

1. Whether I play or not doesn't impede you from playing.

2. If you think that the deadline has worked while the only person who has reacted to it is the one person you believe "wholehearted" to be town amidst a cluster of lurkers, then you are either a really crappy player or scum.

[springlullaby]

in 527 and 538 I defend myself. but people still questioned it, so in 545 I asked what you thought sinc eyou were involved. As yes, sinc eyou were involved I thought you'd be able to give a better answer on whether you thought the clarification was necessary. however, i had to ask you 3 times before you answered clearly.

This is from my perspective misrepresentation.

I addressed you directly the first time you asked, asking you to justify your question.

Upon your explanation, I gave you an answer.

You seem to be unsatisfied with my answer and asked for more precision, I deemed the request sufficiently justified and clarified.

Now tell me, is there a point to your pique here?

[sekinj]

I'm totally miffed by the fatalism about deadline.

It is an easy thing to vote for an extension if people are so willing, you guys are so fucking lazy.

well, the deadline has been effective in my mind since it is actually making you play instead of lurk. if we get closer and are active, I'm sure we will be able to request an extension.

Oh so for you getting me to play was a priority? If so, you are verily full of shit.

1. Whether I play or not doesn't impede you from playing.

2. If you think that the deadline has worked while the only person who has reacted to it is the one person you believe "wholehearted" to be town amidst a cluster of lurkers, then you are either a really crappy player or scum.

If there is someone I know is town, then YES, they are the person I want to play the most, because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

I've never commented that my play quality has been high or otherwise.

[sekinj]

in 527 and 538 I defend myself. but people still questioned it, so in 545 I asked what you thought sinc eyou were involved. As yes, sinc eyou were involved I thought you'd be able to give a better answer on whether you thought the clarification was necessary. however, i had to ask you 3 times before you answered clearly.

This is from my perspective misrepresentation.

I addressed you directly the first time you asked, asking you to justify your question.

Upon your explanation, I gave you an answer.

You seem to be unsatisfied with my answer and asked for more precision, I deemed the request sufficiently justified and clarified.

Now tell me, is there a point to your pique here?

I'm a little irritated with how you chose to respond. First of all, I made a few low level comments addressing the concerns that people had with 525, and then I decided to ask your opinion of the exchange sinc eyou were involved in it. It was fine that you needed follow up questions and clarification. However, then you call me scummy for tryign to get your opinion on a conversation. You say that I am the one fishing (when in fact I was just replying to your need for clarification) and that I'm not speaking up for myself which is completely untrue (see posts 527 and 538 as mentioned before).

I posted 525 because I felt the need to clarify, and I just wanted your take on it, that's all.

[springlullaby]

If there is someone I know is town, then YES, they are the person I want to play the most, because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

This is pinging strongly.

1. It has a quality of underhanded obsequiousness to it, in sharp contrast to earlier persona. Contrast "You are a retard" to "I would be upset because of loss of valued opinion and judgment".

2. The whole wanting the towniest player to play the most is simply full of crap. That's not how scumhunting is done.

I've never commented that my play quality has been high or otherwise.

So your defence is that you are a crappy player?

[sekinj]

your mother is pinging strongly. you are retarded to be almost confirmed and lurking. you shoudl be using your towniness to the towns advantage, but no you sit back and let everyone else play. why? what is the point in that?

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?


You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.


you are impossible to play with sl.

[springlullaby]

your mother is pinging strongly. you are retarded to be almost confirmed and lurking. you shoudl be using your towniness to the towns advantage, but no you sit back and let everyone else play. why? what is the point in that?

Dear sekinj I have already explained my play but since you insist so charmingly,

1. I am using my towniness to the advantage of town:
a. My being mostly confirmed means that my lurking is less hurtful to town than in normal condition: I am in fact not actively hurting town and I am also getting out the way.
b. I have also explained that given the fact scum probably deliberately choose to leave me alive, I wanted to avoid creating a situation in which I walk right in scum play by being vocal and being wrong right off the bat. Because being most town doesn't mean most right. This I think is actively helpful to town by making scum game harder.
c. I will add here that in a manner, still working on the assumption that scum choose to not NK me on purpose, not killing me have also effect of placing more pressure on me, I'm simply resisting that pressure.

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?

2. This is what you said:

If there is someone

I know is town, then YES, they are

the person I want to play the most,

because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

Emphasis on the underlined part. It is just bullshit and scummy, because as town, I have certainly less interest for people I think are low risk.

You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.

3. What happened to you valuing my opinion? If I'm wrong on you being scummy, why isn't it bothering you?

you are impossible to play with sl.

And what is the purpose of that comment?

[sekinj]

your mother is pinging strongly. you are retarded to be almost confirmed and lurking. you shoudl be using your towniness to the towns advantage, but no you sit back and let everyone else play. why? what is the point in that?

Dear sekinj I have already explained my play but since you insist so charmingly,

1. I am using my towniness to the advantage of town:
a. My being mostly confirmed means that my lurking is less hurtful to town than in normal condition: I am in fact not actively hurting town and I am also getting out the way.
b. I have also explained that given the fact scum probably deliberately choose to leave me alive, I wanted to avoid creating a situation in which I walk right in scum play by being vocal and being wrong right off the bat. Because being most town doesn't mean most right. This I think is actively helpful to town by making scum game harder.
c. I will add here that in a manner, still working on the assumption that scum choose to not NK me on purpose, not killing me have also effect of placing more pressure on me, I'm simply resisting that pressure.

a)I would rather you

help

the town by being involved, than trying to just

not hurt

the town by lurking. I just can't see lurking as a good strategy ever.
b) you are double guessing scum, I don't think you can win doing that.
c) given your early play in this game, it really just looks like you'd rather lurk.

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?

2. This is what you said:

If there is someone

I know is town, then YES, they are

the person I want to play the most,

because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

Emphasis on the underlined part. It is just bullshit and scummy, because as town, I have certainly less interest for people I think are low risk.

then we disagree. I woudl rather have the help of almost confirmed townies than have them lurk.

You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.

3. What happened to you valuing my opinion? If I'm wrong on you being scummy, why isn't it bothering you?

you saying I'm scummy, and saying I'm a crappy player are two different things. one is relevant to the game, the other is your opinion about me personally. I woudln't be continuing my argument with you if I wasn't concerned that you think me scummy. however, I'm not concerned if you just think I'm a bad player.

[

you are impossible to play with sl.

And what is the purpose of that comment?

[/quote]
it's an observation that I can never win with you. you always think I'm scummy.

[Jebus]

Seriously, you two, cool it. This is becoming like the Ice/Spolium bout earlier on.

unvote, Vote: Spring

Major ping here, you were so damn intent on argueing with sekinj that you didn't even make a single comment on why I thought your claim was bull. After all, you'd been so eagerly asking it.

[springlullaby]

a)I would rather you

help

the town by being involved, than trying to just

not hurt

the town by lurking. I just can't see lurking as a good strategy ever.
b) you are double guessing scum, I don't think you can win doing that.
c) given your early play in this game, it really just looks like you'd rather lurk.

a) I have explained why my play is actively helping the town.
b) This statement makes no sense. The entire game of mafia is double guessing scum. Even more so as doc.
c) What do you mean here? That you do not believe me when I say that my play is purposeful?

why woudl I not want the towniest player to play and not lurk? If I think someone is town, then why woudln't I want their opinion on others and their reaction?

2. This is what you said:

If there is someone

I know is town, then YES, they are

the person I want to play the most,

because I know our alignments are the same. I would value their opinion and judgement and would be upset with them for lurking. that has been my point from my very first post in this game.

Emphasis on the underlined part. It is just bullshit and scummy, because as town, I have certainly less interest for people I think are low risk.

then we disagree. I woudl rather have the help of almost confirmed townies than have them lurk.

Why? What does my being most confirmed change? It doesn't make me more right.

And you are sidestepping the issue here.
I can understand people me wanting to play. But what you said in reality is that the person you would want to see post

the most

would be a confirmed player.

And that is scummy because it isn't a scumhunting state of mind.
Surely, if you were genuinely interested in scumhunting, you'd rather see more from people you think are scum.

You can think what you want about my play, it doesn't bother me. I myself have made no comments either way.

you saying I'm scummy, and saying I'm a crappy player are two different things. one is relevant to the game, the other is your opinion about me personally. I woudln't be continuing my argument with you if I wasn't concerned that you think me scummy. however, I'm not concerned if you just think I'm a bad player.

Fair enough.

it's an observation that I can never win with you. you always think I'm scummy.

The last time that happened I was right, so your statement is pretty queer here.

[springlullaby]

Seriously, you two, cool it. This is becoming like the Ice/Spolium bout earlier on.

unvote, Vote: Spring

Major ping here, you were so damn intent on argueing with sekinj that you didn't even make a single comment on why I thought your claim was bull. After all, you'd been so eagerly asking it.

Jebus, what is the purpose of your vote?

Are you voting me to signify that you think I'm scum?


What is scummy in my focusing my gaze on sekinj at the moment?

And to answer, I have read your reply. I find the whole post to be nonsensical.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 15#1550015

1. You offer very little explanation as to why you think my claim is bull. From what I can gather:
a. Explain why my pointing out budja's post is scummy? what 'look at me' is supposed to mean?
b. Then you go on to say that 'pretty everything on that page' is scummy from me without explaining why.

2. The rest of your post I don't even understand. You base an entire read on DO who presumably "seems to know" that I'm not doc. What does that even mean?

[sekinj]

a) I have explained why my play is actively helping the town.

---> I disagree with your conclusions. I believe discussion (like this) is what helps the town.

b) This statement makes no sense. The entire game of mafia is double guessing scum. Even more so as doc.

----> I mean you are basing your play on what you think the scum want you to do. I don't think that is a good choice.

c) What do you mean here? That you do not believe me when I say that my play is purposeful?

----> I believe that you think lurking as doc is the best way to play. I am trying to convince you otherwise.

Why? What does my being most confirmed change? It doesn't make me more right.

----> It makes you more trustworthy. I know you are not trying to lie to me or twist my words. you have the town's best interested at heart.

And you are sidestepping the issue here.
I can understand people me wanting to play. But what you said in reality is that the person you would want to see post

the most

would be a confirmed player.
And that is scummy because it isn't a scumhunting state of mind.
Surely, if you were genuinely interested in scumhunting, you'd rather see more from people you think are scum.

--->As in I would want the almost confirmed townie's comment or reaction to everyone else's post. If 3 other people are posting, I would like to know what the townie thought of all of those, meaning they would be posting the most. I know that isn't always realistic, but I'm saying that yes I would want to know what they thought about everything in order to compare it to my thoughts and therefore work together to find scum.

The last time that happened I was right, so your statement is pretty queer here.

--->but you are missing the point that you just think "I" am scummy. I understand that this point will not be proved to you until my alignment is revealed by the mod, but the things that you point out as scummy about me are things that I do regardless of alignment. those things are 1) not understanding you questions and therefore 2) ignoring those questions.

[sekinj]

^mine is bold

[Jebus]

Seriously, you two, cool it. This is becoming like the Ice/Spolium bout earlier on.

unvote, Vote: Spring

Major ping here, you were so damn intent on argueing with sekinj that you didn't even make a single comment on why I thought your claim was bull. After all, you'd been so eagerly asking it.

Jebus, what is the purpose of your vote?

Are you voting me to signify that you think I'm scum?


What is scummy in my focusing my gaze on sekinj at the moment?

And to answer, I have read your reply. I find the whole post to be nonsensical.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 15#1550015

1. You offer very little explanation as to why you think my claim is bull. From what I can gather:
a. Explain why my pointing out budja's post is scummy? what 'look at me' is supposed to mean?
b. Then you go on to say that 'pretty everything on that page' is scummy from me without explaining why.

2. The rest of your post I don't even understand. You base an entire read on DO who presumably "seems to know" that I'm not doc. What does that even mean?

I wanted to avoid this, but I really couldn't come up with any good reason to refute your claim. So fine, I'll come out and say the real reason. I'm the doc. You are not. At first I didn't want to have three doc claims in the air, so I held off. I thought Spring was pretty scummy then, but we already had Budja. I realize that in retrospect I probably should have claimed then, but meh, it worked out how I wanted. I protected Spring, on the off chance that she was town. I thought at first that I'd stopped the kill and that Spring was town, but now I'm having second thoughts.


tl;dr - I'm the doc, Spring is not.

[Jebus]

And yeah, my post trying to say your claim was bull was bull in itself. Good for teh lulz.

[springlullaby]

Lol what?

Ok. Let's do this slowly. I can actually see if you are doc, why you would have voted Budja instead of counter-claiming me since he claimed scum.

But if you are doc, what made you change your mind about you stopping the kill?