Mini 758 - Normalcy (GAME OVER)

[Atronach]

How was Caboose’s post any different from your [47]?

How are they at all similar? Post 47 points at scummy behavior. Behavior which has continued to be scummy I will add. It is not attacking someone in the same manner in which they attacked someone else a la Caboose/Lowell. Which is the crux of the argument.

Are you really trying to make the argument that context isn't important?

I am not saying context is irrelevant, I am saying that your explanation of what context your post was in is your opinion. And your opinion, when it comes to whether or not something you said is fallacious is irrelevant. The posts are practically mirrors of one another. You claim your reasoning for it is different, but that's just a claim.

Atronach wrote:
But I'm also going to random Vote: SpyreX because it's scummy to set up an excuse for later mislynches.

I too am concerned that this alignment, sets up excuses for later.

---

The 'All naughty girls will be spanked and sent to bed without snuggles...fair warning.' votecount

Votecount

SpyreX (4) - Knight of Cydonia, Dejka, Benmage, Caboose

Caboose (3) - SpyreX, Riceballtail, Lowell

Emptyger (2) - Kieraen, Plum

Juls (1) - Atronach
Benmage (1) - Juls
Lowell (1) - EmpTyger

Not voting

:
7 to lynch

[Atronach]

Sorry, hit submit instead of preview:-P Continuing...

Atronach wrote:
But I'm also going to random Vote: SpyreX because it's scummy to set up an excuse for later mislynches.

I too am concerned that this alignment, sets up excuses for later.

You are leaving out the part where I agreed with him. That was the irony, because it was a joke post. In the joke/random voting stage. Indicated further by the seriousness level, which you also left out. Purposely?

FoS: Benmage

Speaking of joke/random voting phase. Lowell, you seem to be posting as if we are still in it. Continued trend of non-substantive posts despite the call by many for more constitutes active lurking.

[dejkha]

@Dej:

Post 36 and 59 are pretty much the same thing except one mention scumpoints and the other mentioned townpoints. And post 63 doesn't imply otherwise, the way I see it.

Ok, so you are agreeing that 36 and 59 are the pretty much the same. However, you are saying 63 doesn't imply that 36 is "bad" and 59 is "good"?

Assuming I understand your usage of the words "good" and "bad", yes that's what I'm saying.

Unvote. Vote Benmage

Read his flip-flop. It wreaks of scumminess.

I voted Spyrex to see who/why people would jump on and also get reaction from Spyrex. I am satisfied with the latter but not the former.

Maybe I'm just missing it or something, but I don't see how he's flip flopping. Care to explain?

Since Lowell decided not to say much else and deadlines coming up,

Unvote Vote: Lowell

[Juls]

@Benmage: Sorry...the flip-flop comment was incorrect. I saw you on the Caboose wagon and didn't realise that your vote was still a random vote. Regardless though...your post still seems scummy and opportunistic. I find when people are extremely agreeable without really adding anything to it that more often than not that person is scum. My vote stands.

And btw...Atronach is in the same boat.

FoS: Atronach

[Atronach]

Am I being extremely agreeable? Because that was not my intention

Seriously though, I do not think it is fair to say I was parroting. I was, in fact, trying to help by explaining in a different manner. Still am. I am unconvinced that either Caboose nor Spyrex are scum. I am much more worried about players like Lowell and RBT for active lurking. Benmage was on the lurking list too, but I have my doubts about him for other reasons now.

[Plum]

Ugh. Analysis of this . . . rather pile of junk. Trying to peel apart exactly what SpyreX and Caboose and others are actually trying to

get at

is getting annoying. So, I'll reread and try to summarize for mostly my own benefit in

one sentence or less

(each)! I'll bold stuff I agree with, and underline stuff I disagree with, 'kay?

SpyreX: Caboose is being hypocritical and latching onto general sentiment re:Lowell, who has a number of players questioning him.

EmpTyger: Lowell's lack of explanation + vague implication about KoC don't make him look any good; also Caboose isn't implicated as scum by being on a wagon now at S-1 (I'll use that abbreviation for Suspicion minus-1).

Caboose:

My post re: scumpoints and townpoints =/= Lowell's, because mine was in response to RBT and Juls gushing about what they believed to be SpyreX's townieness, which I don't feel is notably strong.

Atronach: I agree with SpyreX here.

SpyreX:

Insists that Caboose's 59 was fundamentally analogous to Lowell's 36.

EmpTyger: There's no dissonance, there's no danger in putting someone at S-1, and furthermore Caboose wasn't the one to put Lowell at S-1.

SpyreX: But scum might want to latch onto a strong wagon-of-suspicion,

and its suspicious in and of itself to be on an S-1 suspicion wagon and also Lowell and Caboose's action are still fundamentally analogous and Caboose thus still acted scummy.

I really don't like Spyre's post 64. Quite frankly it seems like a bunch of BS, IMO. I don't see any point in it and he's trying to make it seem like Caboose is rushing a lynch, or something to that effect. By collecting questions and comments directed to Lowell (some suspicious, some not), he tries to make it looks like they all have the potential to turn into votes, which they do not. Some, ok maybe they do, but definitely not all, since half of them were questions.

Scenario 1:

Somebody: *random stuff*
Somebody else: *more random stuff*
Lowell: Spyrex gets townpoints, KoC doesn't

Scenario 2:

Juls: Spyrex looks town.
RBT: I like Spyrex.
Me: I don't see what people are liking about Spyrex.

There ARE differences between the two scenarios. Scenario 1 implies that KoC did something to where it was worth mentioning that he didn't get town points. Scenario 2 implies that SpyreX didn't do anything scummy, but he didn't do anything town either, like other people say he has.

So basically: SpyreX's attack is junk, and possibly scummy. Atronach seems to parrot SpyreX, which looks about as bad. EmpTyger, Caboose, Dejka (I suppose) aren't making junk attacks and look neutral/good coming out of this mess.

@ Juls: Elaborate on SpyreX and why he got your vote, please.

I really dislike the way SpyreX keeps insisting that Caboose made a preemptive crap attack on SpyreX, which does not seem to be the case.

1.) What have I done that is

scummy

? (Hint: Lots of words isn't scummy.)
2.) What are you going to get from this flip if I flip town?
3.) What are you going to get from this flip if I flip scum? (Hint: A dead scum is p nice, but I'm looking for a bit more than that).

First up, my gut doesn't like this post. But let your own guts do their own things.

1. Suspected Caboose on crap bases: That being on an S-1 wagon-of-suspicion is a scumtell (why aren't you attacking the rest of the Lowell attackers?) and that his post 59 contained the sort of preemptive crap attack on you he accused Lowell of making (it wasn't; explanation of my view here above).
2. Take a look at Juls and Atronach and Caboose, perhaps.
3. Take a look at Juls and Atronach to start. Do a reread. Drink some champagne.

Lowell's back-again post sucks for reasons I explained above (same attack on Caboose's one-liner, again as I see it not analogous to Lowell's).

SpyreX claims VT. Whoopee.

Juls says he vote was only for reactions. Honestly?

Do I see some more connections with SpyreX and Juls? I believe I do.

What I also dislike is RBT, who got asked by both myself and Dejka what he disliked about the Lowell/KoC thing and didn't respond. Hell, he's barely posted, and nothing of substance. I wouldn't mind a SpyreX lynch by any stretch of that sort of phrase, but RBT is tickling my gut and we have a few days until deadline. I say make use of 'em.

Vote: Riceballtail

FOS: Juls, Lowell, Atronach, SpyreX

Kieraen promised a post tonight. I sincerely hope he makes a good extensive one.

[SpyreX]

Juls and Atronach get townpoints. Dejkha does not. Carry on.

[SpyreX]

Apparently my use of WORDS just isn't doing its job.

I never, ever, ever, ever EVER implied that Caboose was scummy for being S-1 in and of itself.

I am saying: With a wave of obvious suspicion scum would want to move into a position to push that wagon. Cabooses METHOD for joining the suspicions was what caught my eye.

I'll get to the detailed analysis tonight then please, lord, lynch me.

[Benmage]

You are leaving out the part where I agreed with him. That was the irony, because it was a joke post. In the joke/random voting stage. Indicated further by the seriousness level, which you also left out. Purposely?

FoS: Benmage

Ah this was indeed a misquote by me...overread the 'i'm with you on this one' section. But yes my tone was serious… I certainly view it as scum to leave many openings to fall back on, or to be able to cast future claim and suspicions.

@Benmage: Sorry...the flip-flop comment was incorrect. I saw you on the Caboose wagon and didn't realise that your vote was still a random vote. Regardless though...your post still seems scummy and opportunistic. I find when people are extremely agreeable without really adding anything to it that more often than not that person is scum. My vote stands.

And btw...Atronach is in the same boat.

FoS: Atronach

I re-read my post several times... because frankly I can’t conceive of how it could be scummy. I had two quotes where I agreed with people. One with Atronach (which was actually a misinterpretation agreement) and one with Caboose, for which Cabooses statement had little backing but I do give reason for my disliking…So I did in sense there and at the bottom add something.

I don’t see how agreeing with someone really hints towards scum anyways…If I have the same sentiment regarding someone as another, I can either post unto myself (which is still going to be in agreement) Or quote and make obvious connections, quotes, which can help illustrate to the masses that I am not alone in my recognition.

So

FoS Juls

…cause omgus.

[Lowell]

I don't find one-liners, or "townpoints" or "scumpoints" scummy. I do, however, find hipocrisy scummy. Caboose looks much worse in this interaction with spy.

I also like plum's 105.

[Lowell]

ps- today is my 30th birthday. So am I the oldest on MS by 15 years, or what?

[SpyreX]

I'm 28, so no.

[Caboose]

I don't find one-liners, or "townpoints" or "scumpoints" scummy. I do, however, find hipocrisy scummy. Caboose looks much worse in this interaction with spy.

Please read the thread.

[Juls]

I'm sick and haven't read the recent posts. Consider me V/LA at least for today while I try to get over this bug.

Edit: Get well soon!

[EmpTyger]

I have some technical difficulties irl. They should be cleared up in 48 hours; in the event they are not, I will still be able to at least briefly get online to update my situation and request replacement if necessary.

Very happy to leave my vote on Lowell in the meantime. I think I disagree with every single thing he’s said (well, except that I don’t think he’s a mason or miller)

---

Plum:
…Including, I do *not* like your [105]. 4 days from deadline, you do a bunch of analysis, and then all of a sudden vote RBT? Because he “didn't respond” and “barely posted, and nothing of substance”. Well, Lowell’s all that worse, and you had found other reasons to suspect him too, and he’s at 2 votes and has others suspecting him. Instead, you vote RBT, who no one else is even voting, and I doubt a bandwagon will follow you when you spend most of [105] attacking Spyre, not RBT.

[Plum]

Plum:
…Including, I do *not* like your [105]. 4 days from deadline, you do a bunch of analysis, and then all of a sudden vote RBT? Because he “didn't respond” and “barely posted, and nothing of substance”. Well, Lowell’s all that worse, and you had found other reasons to suspect him too, and he’s at 2 votes and has others suspecting him. Instead, you vote RBT, who no one else is even voting, and I doubt a bandwagon will follow you when you spend most of [105] attacking Spyre, not RBT.

All very true. I don't know if my unconcious mentality, which seems to be that four days in this game is a fair amount of time . . . lends to this. I believe I made it clear that I thought SpyreX's case on Caboose was based on multiple fallacies and was scummy. It was also clear to me that SpyreX had already been put at L-1 or so and claimed VT - so theoretically he not only was scummy and worthy of getting lynched, but there was and is fairly strong support for the SpyreX wagon. Please correct me if I am wrong. Having said all that and made my suspicions of SpyreX amply clear, I wanted to see what a vote on a guy who has refused to answer a question asked by myself and another and has generally posted little at all and provoked fairly strong gut reaction as to his scumminess. The vote was, yes, partly there for pressure reasons and yes, having said this the pressure will be lessened, to a degree.

You really have Lowell to thank for why I’m not voting [SpyreX]

My vote is somewhat similar: You and I both find SpyreX fairly scummy. You're keeping your vote on Lowell because you're strongly convinced that he's scum and thus that your vote is most effective on him. I believe that a SpyreX lynch can and probably will be effected before the deadline. I wanted to make my vote effective by using it to strengthen RBT's reactions to my suspicions of him.

I will now unequivocally tell you that I'd like to make the most of these next three days or so, but as deadline approaches I'll be perfectly happy to help lynch SpyreX. Let's see what else we can get done.

I don't find one-liners, or "townpoints" or "scumpoints" scummy. I do, however, find hipocrisy scummy. Caboose looks much worse in this interaction with spy.

I also like plum's 105.

I find it funny that you liked my post so much you commented on the fact but believe Caboose to have displayed hypocrisy, as I firmly argue against that misconception in the post you referenced. Again, Lowell, out of the blue you gave SpyreX townpoints and impied that KoC didn't deserve townpoints. Caboose argued that doing that was scummy. In addition, more than one player had expressed sentiments re: liking SpyreX and/or his style of play, and Caboose commented that he didn't see anything particulary likable, gamewise, about SpyreX thus far. Different implications, and, importantly, Caboose's comment was not incongruous or nebulous and out-of-the-blue - it fit with the context and was not, to the degree that yours was, a preemptive scum attack.

Mod, could we get a votecount, pretty please with a cherry on top?

---

The 'But mom, I already had one at the top of this page!' votecount

Votecount

SpyreX (3) - Knight of Cydonia, Benmage, Caboose
Caboose (3) - SpyreX, Riceballtail, Lowell

Lowell (2) - EmpTyger, Dejka

Emptyger (1) - Kieraen
Juls (1) - Atronach
Benmage (1) - Juls
Riceballtail (1) - Plum

Not voting

:
7 to lynch

[Riceballtail]

Plum: Sorry if this is frustrating you, but to be quite honest, I haven't had much to say, as I tend to ignore walloftext vs walloftext arguments on D1. If you take all those out, then this day ends up being fairly contentless. Also, I did make an attempt to answer your question. I'm not sorry it didn't yield the answer you wanted me to say. Instead of saying I didn't answer, just ask for clarification, or say you didn't understand. Otherwise, it's just making you scummy.

Also, we all know that one vote on D1 is hardly pressure or scary. I'm more frustrated with your (intentional?) misrep of a reply than a vote.

[SpyreX]

Alright, time for the "SpyreX's take on this debacle before he gets hung" synopsis I said I'd do.

Atronach

:

Good: All things considered, fairly active. I really appreciate the simple, direct answer to my question. I, personally, am glad he sees what I'm saying. Consistent with his opinions thus far.

Bad: Still hasn't placed a real vote yet. Says not convinced either major wagon is on scum, but isn't offering a real alternative (although fairly understandable considering the path this game has taken). Absence of a true vote / lack of pro-active scumhunting is a little worrisome.

Verdict: Heavily-leaning town, overall. Consistency, activity and direct responses to questions / suspicion.

Benmage

:

Good: This is real hard to find. The only thing really standing out is the trying to weigh both sides on me and lowell to a degree.

Bad: Ohh nelly. 5 whole posts. Minimal content. Joins the bandwagon with this gem:

Post 64, and also 74...not going to quote...but Spyrex seems to get caught up with semantics and wording wherein I feel he is way over analyzing and complicating things with a plethora of unhelpful nonsensical jargon.

Actively states he has been skimming. Agrees with Atronarch as part of his reason to vote for me. First post does the "How many scum COULD there possibly be" which is a minor scumtell to me. FoS's juls based on an omgus.

Verdict: Leaning scum. Lurking, minimal content, bandwagon voting, absence of any individual thoughts. If he was more experienced I think I would push this towards the heavily scummy category. Lurking looks like its going to be an issue - definite vig candidate.

Caboose

Good: Active - in the quick games especially activity is very important.

Bad: (I'll leave what I've already said out of this). Hyper-aggressive in response to accusations, minimal (sans 59) contributions otherwise. Real, real bad at answering questions: read the thread is not an acceptable answer if it is already clearly there. The use of terms like "contextless" "strawman" "fallacy" et al without proper backing (and he HAS been specifically asked by at least me) is a giant red flag. Saying, regardless of my flip, going after Atronarch is really bothersome.

Verdict: Scum. The only other scenario I can see that makes sense with some of what has happened is masons with EmpTyger - however, if thats the case I am soo glad I'm getting hung right now because thats gonna be a game loser. If I could kill him, I would. I am recommending this posthumously as a serious avenue of pursuit for the town.

dejkha

Good: He is taking the time to clarify some of his reasons for my vote. Consistent (voted for me under the grounds that if Lowell didn't explain he would shift his vote and did so).

Bad: Activity still a little low. I'm still a little confused at how he can agree with my parallel but not the implications. Nothing outside the box (the only players really mentioned are Lowell and myself).

Verdict: Neutral/Leaning town slightly. If activity picks up and becomes more wide in focus I could see pushing town overall. Definitely not a "prime suspect" as it sits.

EmpTyger

Good: Very active in the main discussion of day 1. Paying attention to other players in the game. Is actively asking questions.

Bad: I can not detach Emp from Caboose in my mind - his attacks on me (and questions of other players) feel like a textbook chainsaw defense (especially considering not once has there been any suspicion of Caboose). The 'example' counter-example given is, at best, far enough off the mark that it affirms my main issue - and at worst it is an active mispainting of my stance. Most of his callouts (Lowell, dej, Kieraen) are simple lurker callouts - even his vote as it sits.

Verdict: If Caboose and Emp do not know each others alignments (masons / scum) I am flabbergasted at the way this has went down. If, as I am leaning, they are scum together then I would call Caboose being a power role and Emp being just a goon based on the way this has went down.

Juls

Good: Active. Actively questioning lurkers (RBT specifically). I, personally, love the "gambit" she pulled with her vote - that is one of the kind of risk/reward moves I really like. Didn't try to justify mis-understanding of statements with benmage showing a solid level of openness and flexibility.

Bad: Playing both sides to a small degree in regards to me (likes my style / doesn't say I am town). Her Gambit did help push my claim which does always benefit the scum.

Verdict: Town. Juls is my anti-Caboose. If she's scum she's got the wool over my eyes so hard its better you kill me now because seriously. (Note: Sorry when this gets you killed )

Kieraen

Good: He hasn't got modkilled?

Bad: Everything else. I honestly forgot he was in the game - that is how much content he has provided.

Verdict: #1 target for a vig-kill. I wouldn't even bother with an investigation because there is no reason to let him live much longer with this level of activity. If it werent for Caboose-gate I'd be very tempted to place my vote here.

Knight of Cydonia

Good: Active. Unfortunately, not much more to say than that.

Bad: For the posts, KoC hasn't "said" much thus far. I cant shake the feeling of a Lowell/KoC scum pair staging a slapfight early on. Voted for me, as far as I can tell, solely for the claim (see above with the role information being very, very useful for the scum)

Verdict: Definite target for investigation - however because I just cant get over the Emp/Caboose deal I am going to simply say Neutral/Slightly Scummy.

Lowell

Good: Definitely was key to generating a lot of discussion . I see the method behind the madness of his posts (hence why they haven't bothered me as much as some). Moreso than the other lurkers, he IS making his opinions known (even if you dont know why).

Bad: Inactive. Seriously. Last comment considering everything going on is a throwaway that I don't like. Absence of increase in activity considering he is a wagon choice is also worrisome.

Verdict: Much like KoC, Neutral/Slightly Scummy. The lurking really drives me nuts but on that front there are still MUCH WORSE lurkers (and this is really sad when you consider he has 5 whole posts)

Plum

Good: Active. Definitely not lacking on the words. Makes her opinions known and questions without a huge issue of hyper-aggressiveness. Has a definitive stance on the main issue of the day.

Bad: With the definite opinion in, still places the (for all intents and purposes) throw-away vote on RBT. FoS pretty much "the game" sans... Emp and Caboose. Unnecessary (and, IMO, wrong) "emotional" words in her last major post (RBT and Juls "gushing" about me being town, my suspicions are "crap"). Again, does the "regardless of my flip I'm looking and A and B tomorrow" business with the added side of C just to cover the bases.

Verdict: Again, the Emp/Caboose handholding bothers me. The only "wtf" moment I have is that I really doubt the whole scumgroup would be this connected this early. However, the emotional language choices and the throw-away vote with the power FoS definitely leave me at scummy.

Riceballtail

Good: Opinions (as it were) are known. The reply to Plum is fairly even-keel considering.

Bad: Not active enough. One liners aren't going to cut it. Saying "I'm ignoring the wall-of-texts" isn't really helpful. The fact that my little analysis of RBT is probably near as many words as she's posted all game is... sad and wrong.

Verdict: Neutral. If participation was higher I'd lean town. If it continues I'd start leaning scum. Investigation worthy.

So, based on little connections, etc and because well, I'm going to be dead soon and I like making words

(NOTE: THIS IS SEMI JOKING FOR THE LOVE OF)

:

Potential Scum Groupings! (3-man teams)

The "I seriously hope this is the scum because otherwise I hate you guys" Scumgroup:

Caboose, EmpTyger, Plum

I think this one speaks for itself. Caboose and Emp are entwined in my brain for the rest of this game in the kind of tryst even lovers would blush at. Plum must just be a voyeur.

The "If I was a vig, you jerks would never, ever win" Scumgroup:

Kierean, Lowell, Riceball

Seriously. I'm pushing almost DOUBLE your combined posts. I... I've got nothing.

The "Lets watch SpyreX crash and burn" Scumgroup:

Juls, Riceball, Atronarch

Mostly here because you're the ones that seem to at least give what I'm saying more than a glance..to see what I'm actually saying. Must be scum.

The "Lets just play like scum because its supersweet: Scumgroup

:

benmage, Caboose, Kieraen

Individually you are the three most scummy players at the mo'. Good work.
and, finally:

The "Porkens hates me soo much so this is probably the case" Scumgroup:

Every damn one of you sans Juls.

Seriously, maybe its 3 scum groups of 3 and an SK and then Juls and I as the only town. Wouldn't surprise me ALL THAT MUCH PORKENS

(Note: JOKE TIME IS OVER READ FROM HERE SERIOUSLY)

Final Thoughts:

Lets get this out of the way:

I, at this point, want to be hung.

It'll get the most out of any lynch sans Cabooses which I don't think is going to happen. I would rather post this and have it as at least a read tomorrow versus somehow NOT getting lynched and having this debacle again tomorrow because, get this, I want to win dead or alive.

With that said. I swear, if for some reason you don't lynch me you better just consider me confirmed. Do NOT go through this business again. I will not be a patsy for an easy lylo lynch and this day 1 + me being vanilla = I will never, ever be NK'd. WIFOM out of that all you want - kill me or confirm me, I don't care.

In general, if posting doesn't pick up (especially content) the town has a snowball's chance in hell of winning this. It'll turn into some Lord of the Flies business if the lurkers aren't dealt with. Thats NOT going to cut it.

Also: the chances of my wagon being totally town driven are minimal. There IS going to be scum on this wagon (you know who I think this is). Keep that in the front of the brainstems tomorrow.

Finally: I can not explain how irritating / sad it is that some of these votes on me aren't because you see a scum motivation for what I've said, but because you simply don't agree with it. Or as some have insinuated "too many words." Combined with the fact that the answers to the questions I asked mean my flip isn't changing anything tomorrow just makes the face behind the face die a little..and the buzzwords, my lord. Seriously.

So, hells bells - lynch me, post more, look for scum motivations versus "different" behavior and WIN.

(and kill Caboose, fyi(as it is part of the above statement of "and WIN"))

...I've just posted too many words

[Lowell]

It really needs to be caboose instead of spyrex. spy's shameless buddying in his last post notwithstanding, I can't get over caboose's repeated, and inane, defense of why though it looks like a one-liner and smells like a one-liner, it's somehow not a one-liner when caboose does it.

[Juls]

Laid it on a little thick didn't you Spyrex? Yeah, I don't have warm and fuzzies about Spyrex now.

Unvote. Vote Spyrex

L-2 I believe.

@Plum: I voted Spyrex because I did think he was doing a lot of hand-waving and trying too hard. But I also wanted a reaction out of him because the possibility that he is just town trying to find scum. I was satisfied with his answer to this. However, afterwards you can see what he has done for yourself and I hope understand why I am putting my vote back on him.

@Spyrex: If I am wrong I apologize but what I am feeling from this is you knowing how I played in the game that you modded and taking advantage of that. But my God it is so obvious...Ugh! I hope I am not reading it wrong.

[Kieraen]

Just read that Spyrex post and feel bad. Ive just kind of let this game glide by. I'm gonna post my feelings page by page. Full feelings and thoughts. Nothing barred. I've got some catching up to do.

Okay.
Apologies town. Ive been a bugger.

[SpyreX]

Just read that Spyrex post and feel bad. Ive just kind of let this game glide by. I'm gonna post my feelings page by page. Full feelings and thoughts. Nothing barred. I've got some catching up to do.

Okay.
Apologies town. Ive been a bugger.

Less apologizing, more actually doing it.

Laid it on a little thick didn't you Spyrex? Yeah, I don't have warm and fuzzies about Spyrex now.

Unvote. Vote Spyrex L-2 I believe.

@Plum: I voted Spyrex because I did think he was doing a lot of hand-waving and trying too hard. But I also wanted a reaction out of him because the possibility that he is just town trying to find scum. I was satisfied with his answer to this. However, afterwards you can see what he has done for yourself and I hope understand why I am putting my vote back on him.

@Spyrex: If I am wrong I apologize but what I am feeling from this is you knowing how I played in the game that you modded and taking advantage of that. But my God it is so obvious...Ugh! I hope I am not reading it wrong.

Not thick. I'm actually more irritated than not that, overall, I'm not getting solid town vibes from many players: its nice to come out of day 1 with at least "good" feelings about more than one player without the majority lying in neutral / scummy status. I think your play has been the most town thus far by a mile.

Don't apologize. I fully expect to be lynched. I am not going to lynch myself (unless its to stop a no lynch) so more people on the wagon the better - every vote placed is more information tomorrow.

It really needs to be caboose instead of spyrex. spy's shameless buddying in his last post notwithstanding, I can't get over caboose's repeated, and inane, defense of why though it looks like a one-liner and smells like a one-liner, it's somehow not a one-liner when caboose does it.

More posts is better. This is a start and, duh, I agree with it - although I'm not buddying. Unless Juls is a necrophiliac since you all better hang me.

[Atronach]

In light of the fact that the deadline is looming tomorrow, it looks like it will be a Caboose or Spyrex lynch.

In all honesty, Spyrex, your last post looks bad in some ways. The "I want to be hung" thing is a poor move. It always looks like an attempt to prompt a "he must be town" response. If town, as I still suspect you are, sacrificing yourself is never a good idea.

Caboose has spent the entirety of the game defending his now-infamous Mirror Post. This has been interspersed only with weak suspicion by him of myself, Lowell, and Plum. Can we really call this scum-hunting? Though it will probably not swing this way, I will

Vote: Caboose

I will be checking in frequently. If it does not look like a lynch will happen without my vote on Spyrex, I will switch it to him. I'd rather we get a read on Caboose than risk no-lynch.

[Kieraen]

unvote

Page 1

Nothing to say except that three votes on both Spyrex and Emptiger quite quickly.

page 2

spyrex gets townpoints. KoC does not. Carry on.

The quote that started a debate.

Okay I don't know if this is a joke with the 1940s war thing or not. I don't see it as inherently scummy as such a throwaway comment would surely be justified by mafia seeking to avoid attention.

page 3

So far I like Spyre. Not a fan of the Lowell/KoC thing.

I find this comment equal to the Lowell comment. It is empty and devoid of reason.



I haven't seen why KoC has detractors. He hasn't said anything to go against as yet. Then again he hasn't said anything of substance yet.



With regards to the early numbers of random voting, I'm 50:50 torn. I have a problem with random votes in general, and if you vote late you are stuck between placing a vote on someone who has no votes or someone who has a few. I'm a fan of applying some pressure, and seeing what cracks. I think mafia are probably less likely to move their vote in this situation (

shoot myself in the foot as I have had a vote on Emptiger all game

), but this is all conjecture at this point.

There doesn't need to be one for it to qualify as a crap attack. All there needs to be is a vague, nebulous statement of "I think X is scum" or "I think X is scum for this reason that's not a scumtell."

QFT
I think both Lowell and Riceballtail qualify on this point. The point of Random voting is to expand of suspicions and then to have your own reasoning for suspicions to be challenged and qualified by others.

Any reason why you sarcastically dismiss the points as arbitrary and useless instead of, say, asking what the basis for them was? IGMEOY: KOC. I'll second Caboose's question, however - Lowell,, care to explain the reasoning behind your point distribution or whatever it was?

First off, I think KoC dismissing Lowell is not a scumtell in this case. If Lowell wanted to be taken seriously, then he would've explained his attack in the first place.
Plum looks scummy here because of two things: 1) she fans the flames of Lowell's "suspicion" of KoC by calling KoC down on a non scumtell, and 2) she asks Lowell for explanation, which plays both sides of the Lowell-KoC issue.
+scumpoints for Plum

I massively disagree with this. I think plum is playing the game correctly. You challenge everyone. He isn't playing both sides of the lowell KoC issue, he is CHALLENGING both sides of the Lowell-KoC issue.

Spyrex's post 64.
I agree with a great deal of points. However I feel like you forget a comment like Lowell's whilst not explicity stating that he feels KoC is anti town, it has great implications as such. We cannot forget this. However the real question is whether this is intentional and/or part of a joke (regarding the 1940s conversation).

I also dislike this statement.

Thats 5, right there without Caboose that have expressed in some fashion questioning/negative attributes to Lowells question. Add in Caboose and you're sitting at a potential L-1. (Yes, this is under the assumption that suspicions become votes - EmpTyger's already did).

Thats a big assumption. Your stating that we shouldn't be individualy suspicious of a of, what is one of the two most suspious posts up to this point (the other being Riceballtail's equally devoid post I quoted earlier). It feels like defending a scumbuddy at this point.



I like Plum's post 69.

Preemptive crap attacks are scummy.
+scumpoints for Lowell

I don't see what people are liking about Spyre.

I don't find this quote as bad as either Lowell's or Riceball. In this he is explicity stating (albeit minimally) what he dislikes about Lowell's case. The suggestion that Spyre is anti-town is much lower than in Riceball's or Lowell's. It is similair to both but I don't find it as scummy, and his initial sentance is something that I think bares a little trueth.

When you view another players action as "bad" (36) and there is glaring similarities to your own (59) there HAS to be an underlying reason for such a shift in thought process to occur.

As previously mentioned I don't see the similairity as strongly as you do, thefore the hyprocrisy factor is not as strong.

Okay more after my bath.

[SpyreX]

In light of the fact that the deadline is looming tomorrow, it looks like it will be a Caboose or Spyrex lynch.

In all honesty, Spyrex, your last post looks bad in some ways. The "I want to be hung" thing is a poor move. It always looks like an attempt to prompt a "he must be town" response. If town, as I still suspect you are, sacrificing yourself is never a good idea.

It -can- be a poor move, but short of hitting scum today I'd prefer to at least hit a townie that gives the maximum information for tomorrow: I've put myself in that position. I've given views on most everything I can, I AM a VT so I am not the loss of a PR (nor the chance for another to claim).

Not to mention, of course, I -could- be scum. Regardless of how you slice it I am the second-best choice for a Day 1 lynch (sans scum). You can go "he must be town" all you want as long as the issue is rectified for tomorrow one way or another.

I'm glad to see Kier picking up the posting up. Even though it'd already been mentioned its good to see someone pick up the one

actual

potential scum-motive for my post (a defense of Lowell which parallels Emp's of Caboose) even if its wrong versus the shouting of fallacy. Lets see if the ball keeps rolling.