Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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SensFan Fortuna Ex Deus
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Sorry I'm late, guys. Life's been busy.
mykonian is wrong about the slip again, and its odd that Panzer didn't get a result.Vote: Zilla, for now. I think this is the third vote.(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record-
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Dourgrim Yep. Again.
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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I apologize for the quadruple-post, but as Sensfan ended the day so abruptly, I want to get as much of my thoughts out there as possible. I never got the chance to talk more about mykonian today, so I will do so below:
mykonian was quite defensive of qwints, although again leaving the other side open in his typical wishy-washy fashion. mykonian says "on the other hand" a LOT, because he's trying to keep his opinions open on both sides, depending on who gets lynched. He wants to stop a qwints lynch, but not so strongly that it's obvious to point back to later, so every time he is defensive of qwints, he throws in a "but on the other hand."
More wishy-washiness towards qwints. He is "not against" a qwints claim, but he also doesn't want to get too many people to claim.
Yet another post where mykonian tries to gently and subtly steer us away from a qwints lynch. He tells me I should question B_B, and that if I can't change my mind about qwints, then asking for a claim was pointless. But after this, of course, he says things like "at least this is better than a Panzer lynch" and "I'm not happy with qwints' play." Gotta leave that back door open, in case the "front-door" plan of switching lynch-targets doesn't work, right?
In mykonian's vote for Zilla today, he says she played a very aggressive, anti-town game, and left it at that. He didn't sayanythinglike this earlier in the thread. In fact, as you will remember, yesterday he was AGAINST a Zilla lynch as he didn't find her scummy, yet FOR a Zilla claim.
Zilla was NOT on mykonian's "pseudo-vote" list, and mykonian has never FOS'd or voted Zilla. Yet her 4 or 5 posts on day 2 were enough for him to put her at L-2, with nothing else to say but "she has been aggressive and anti-town"? Why didn't you say that yesterday, when she exhibited 95%+ of her aggressive, anti-town behavior? Or were the 4 posts you saw today enough to completely change your opinion of her and sneak on her quick-growing wagon at L-2?
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And Sensfan, I'm very pissed off you made me get all this out tonight and stay up too late due to your premature hammer. I appreciate you replacing into such a daunting behemoth of a game, but you can't spare the 20 seconds to check up on vote counts? Not even when someone posts TWICE IN A ROW that we should be careful that Zilla is at L-1? In the post IMMEDIATELY BEFORE YOURS AT THE TOP OF THE FRICKIN' PAGE? Seriously?-
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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To put my money where my mouth is:GIEFF wrote:mykonian says "on the other hand" a LOT, because he's trying to keep his opinions open on both sides, depending on who gets lynched.
- mykonian wrote:About pantzers early game: it is undoubtely protown.But on the other hand, it barely can hurt scum. I don't know how panzer starts his games normally.
He tries to keep both me and Panzer open as scum, and uses this "back door" later in the day, when he abruptly switches from voting me all game to calling me townie and voting Panzer. Good thing he pretended to be so conflicted!mykonian wrote:GIEFF's case, how hard it is to disprove now, still doesn't explain why Panzer must be town.But on the other hand, Panzers play makes absolutely no sense, and what I think to know about him, that is not normal for him.
(also note mykonian calling both Goat and Zilla townies here - we already know Goat is a townie, and if Zilla is townie, we will know that very soon, too).mykonian (talking to Goat) wrote:If you look at how I played while Zilla had me as target, you can see I was not that interested. Keep in mind that her arguments are not strong. However, that doesn't mean that Zilla can't be useful to town: Just look at the reactions of people to her. As I already stated, I don't think she has brought anything up that makes me think you are scum, goat, and this reaction makes you likely town, it looks sincere.
But on the other hand, you don't bring anything more with your case. Sure, it is easy to point out that her accusations are wrong, we all know. She picks, and then something comes out: I don't think anyone else has thought you scummy because of Zilla. But do you really think that contradictions, strawmen, etc. make a good case? I have seen too many mislynches that way. It is simply too easy for scum to sit back while townies don't understand each other.
- mykonian wrote:I think I have been pretty clear: the actions you made against Panzer felt to me like you wanted to take out an aggressive player early based on one of his mistakes.
Buton the other hand, Panzers actions cannot be explained, and I don't like that. Means something is wrong there.
So he agrees, but on the other hand, he disagrees.mykonian (to militant, about not lynching a lurking springlullaby) wrote:agreed, it won't be better then a random lynch.But on the other hand, what do we lose when she is a towny? close to nothing. Otherwise scum will just leave her in the game, and we'll be sitting here with an inactive player.
- mykonian wrote:not impressed. GIEFF nitpick against his "targets", goes way too far, and then you get accusations that he is tunneling, as his behaviour against someone doesn't make sense. I think that explains the contradiction partly.
On the other hand, to lie as scum that way makes little more sense then it does as town, isn't it?
WIFOM and fence-sitting - the hallmark of scum. But on the other hand, why would scum act so scummy?mykonian wrote:ok, I read it wrong the first time, obviously.
But again, if I was scum, and I would try to look as protown as possible, I would refrain from changing stances a lot, and I would tunnel more, just to avoid this problem. If you change stances as scum you can wait for this.
Buton the other hand, as towny, if you think things over/reread and you come to a different conclusion, wouldn't you change? Tunneling is antitown.
- mykonian wrote:If I work from the assumption that GIEFF is scum, then Panzer is most likely town. And while BB has had not a good start (the panzer wagon... later the vote for zilla on little reasons), he makes valid points against GIEFF later. Zilla is simply annoying in my mind. Looks too much on little things, but at least has not gotten anybody too close to a lynch by this.
On the other hand, this whole thought is based on the fact that GIEFF is scum. If he is not, then he could be right about Panzer, but I don't think this likely. - mykonian wrote: I thought we should go with the pseudovotes, as they show the majority of us was in favor of a BB lynch: but I'm afraid qwints is just the easy target just before the lynch, and I don't know if I should be that happy with it.On the other hand, a lurker lynch is better then a random lynch.
And if you think these are "just slips" or if you think calling Zilla a townie THREE TIMES are "just slips" you are vastly underestimating the power of the subconscious, and the amount of information scum have to pretend to hide with every single word they write.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I think I have been defending zilla too long with the too scummy fallacy. I bet I talked about that with goat yesterday. Some people here look so precisely at every post, that if someone is scum in their minds, they will find contradictions, slips etc.. But you can make such cases just as easily on town as on scum.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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GIEFF Internet Superstar
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Zilla Mafia Scum
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From what I've seen of Sens, he has a fetish for quicklynching. It's still completely nuts to abruptly end a day like that. Does anyone want to unvote on the off chance that wasn't hammer?Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele-
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Zilla Mafia Scum
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And you know this with certainty, eh? I'm just pointing out how BB is using a double standard, that when I don't buy a case, I'm buddying up to town, but Qwints can't be buddying up to town, he must be defending scum.Dourgrim wrote:Zilla, you're either wrong or trying to mislead.
vote: ZillaAware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele-
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Zilla Mafia Scum
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Also note no reasoning here, just tossing a vote on the heap.SensFan wrote:Sorry I'm late, guys. Life's been busy.
mykonian is wrong about the slip again, and its odd that Panzer didn't get a result.Vote: Zilla, for now. I think this is the third vote.Aware of that. However, you are attacking him repeatedly. Assault and battery can lead to death if sustained over a period of time. ~ Cybele-
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PJ. Hell in a Cell
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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SensFan Fortuna Ex Deus
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Oh my God...
I only read to page 52, and thought that was it...so sorry, guys.
Unvote, on the off-chance it wasn't a lynch.(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record-
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SensFan Fortuna Ex Deus
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Given the right circumstances, I absolutely think a quicklynch is warranted. This is not one of those circumstances.Zilla wrote:From what I've seen of Sens, he has a fetish for quicklynching.(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Dourgrim Yep. Again.
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Zilla was on my list yesterday, she was still on my list going into today, and I voted in accordance. Didn't realize I was putting her at L-1 (although that wouldn't necessarily have prevented the vote had I known), and I certainly didn't expect anyone to not read the entire thread before voting. Very curious to see how she flips (unless GIEFF screwed up and we're not in twilight).
mykonian/Panzer: I get that you don't like GIEFF all that much, and I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not a huge fan of his playstyle myself, but he was instrumental in the qwints lynch yesterday... that has to count for something. qwints flipping scum at the end of the last day alleviated many of my suspicions of him. Not defending him (he can still be annoying), but it's hard to refute what he's done for the Town so far.[size=75]The point of the journey is not to arrive...[/size]-
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SensFan Fortuna Ex Deus
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. I read to the end of 52, and thought that was the end of the thread.Dourgrim wrote:I certainly didn't expect anyone to not read the entire thread before voting.(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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