Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[camn]

camn in Post 64: This is just asking for trouble. I'm leaning towards bad play on this one.

I like asking for trouble.

camn in Post 68: Same questions/thoughts as above.

I don't know what that means.

camn in Post 109: You seem to refuse to believe that charter can be anything but scum. I feel like you are bringing too much of your past with him to this game and not enough of the current.

How exactly does post 109 say to you that I think charter is scum?

camn in Post 112: This may sound weird, but I want to ask for a reason for your unvote. "You rule" just doesn't cut it for me.

GC was, and is, acting INCREDIBLY town. In my experience. . scum don't drop atom bombs on people day 1.

=======================

Page 8 Votecount

camn (1/7): Korts,
charter (0/7):
DizzyIzzyB13 (3/7): Ether, Incognito, charter
Ether (0/7):
Green Crayons (0/7):
Incognito (0/7):
Korts (0/7):
OhGodMyLife (0/7):
Patrick (3/7): Xdaamno, camn, OhGodMyLife
skitzer (0/7):
Xdaamno (3/7): Yosarian2, Green Crayons, Patrick
Yosarian2 (0/7):

Not voting (2/12):

skitzer, DizzyIzzyB13,

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Countdown To Deadline
============================

[Yosarian2]

In my experience. . scum don't drop atom bombs on people day 1.

Oh, speaking of which, I'm a miller.

[OhGodMyLife]

Well that makes things easy.

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I may or may not fully explain myself in regards to Patrick today, but in all likelihood I'll still be gunning for him tomorrow so it can probably wait. Yosarian2 just claimed scum.

[Yosarian2]

Well that makes things easy.

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

I may or may not fully explain myself in regards to Patrick today, but in all likelihood I'll still be gunning for him tomorrow so it can probably wait. Yosarian2 just claimed scum.

No, I'm not a scum, I'm a miller.

I had to claim miller day 1 because the odds of me getting investigated are too high to risk not claiming. Note I did the same thing last time I was a miller.

Why, do you really think claiming miller day 1 is a bad move for a miller, especally one who gets investigated a lot?

[OhGodMyLife]

I think claiming miller day one

in your very first post

is the right move to make as miller. If you don't, you're better off just being pro town and hoping you don't get investigated. You haven't been the latter, and you didn't do the former. You're scum. There's no miller.

[Yosarian2]

I think claiming miller day one

in your very first post

is the right move to make as miller. If you don't, you're better off just being pro town and hoping you don't get investigated.

That's dumb, though. It dosn't make any difference if you claim "in your first post" or if you claim a little later in the day at all, so long as you claim before the first night.

I was going to wait until the game stalled, or I had a chance to get a good reaction, or something, but screw it; I can never resists a good streight line like that. Still, dosn't matter; there is absolutly no difference between claiming miller "in the first post" or doing it some other time before the end of the day. And "hoping I don't get investigated" would be a stupid move for me.

[Yosarian2]

So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?

[camn]

LOL!

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian

I have to see how you get out of this.

Why would we want a claimed miller of your caliber alive in endgame?
The risk of you being scum is too big to leave you alive.

And besides, My Day 1 town-meta on you includes multiple bandwagons on townies.... which I have yet to see.

[OhGodMyLife]

So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?

This is no policy vote.

[camn]

Question... why not just crumb it and deal with it if someone comes at you with an investigation?
It seems like claiming would tell everyone more about the setup than we would like at this point....?

I ask as a student of the game, sir.

[charter]

*Goes off on a rant about hypocritical bandwagon votes*

You seem to be implying once again that I was only ever voting you for bandwagoning, which is still a strawman.

Can you list it for me, cause before all you said was "Oh, look, charter is hypocritically voting Izzy for something along the lines of active-lurking/not scumhunting. Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?" when you voted. YOUR EXACT WORDS WERE "HYPOCRITICALLY VOTING" SO HOW IS IT A STRAWMAN AT ALL?

skitzer, who do you find most suspicious right now?

Haha, a game I was in just ended like five hours ago where a "miller" claimed day one, not in his first post. Was scum.

unvote, vote Yos

[Incognito]

I'll have more later specifically directed at skitzer, but Yos2, how do your thoughts currently match what you mentioned in the Miller-claiming MD thread, specifically in this post:

(shrug) The one time I was a miller, I didn't claim miller, although I breadcrumbed it heavily, on the theory that if I claimed miller town would probably waste a lynch on me, whereas if I didn't, scum might kill me and/or cop might not investigate me; basically, the goal of my play that game was to try and play in such a way so that the cop wouldn't investigate me.

Do you still feel the same way? If not, why?

[OhGodMyLife]

charter, the hypocritical part of your vote was not that it was a bandwagon vote, it was that your stated reasons were active lurking/not scumhunting, which up to that point described you just as well as they described Izzy.

Also, re: Incog's post 186, I thought I remembered some kind of MD comment from Yos on miller claims, I'm glad someone took the time to dig it out.

Incog, given your particularly juicy piece of information pertaining to Yos2, why do you abstain from actually taking some kind of stance on him?

[charter]

charter, the hypocritical part of your vote was not that it was a bandwagon vote, it was that your stated reasons were active lurking/not scumhunting, which up to that point described you just as well as they described Izzy.

No, I voted because Dizzy claimed she was scumhunting, when she wasn't, and then contradicted herself in the next sentence. If she had been like "yeah, I could be doing more" then there would be nothing to vote for.

[OhGodMyLife]

Yosarian2 in Ludd: A One-Act by OhGodMyLife

Yos: Meh, I say. Meh! Also, vote X
Others: Why so Meh? Was your X vote random?
Yos: Random? Why of course not.
Yos: While I'm at it, let me defend my use of the word meh. It was not wishy washy. It just means I am not making any definitive statements about the alignments of any players involved in any debates so far.

Oh, thats what wishy washy is? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Others: So then, what nonrandom reason do you have for voting X?
Yos: Ummm... everyone had posted already, so my standard random vote would not apply. *Cough* Let me just reiterate that I still haven't found anything to comment on in the ongoing debates between other players. But X's only post so far was like totally not townly. Srsly.
Yos: Also, I will now give a reason for why my reads on Patrick can't be trusted and therefore I probably will never meaningfully comment on Patrick's alignment.
Others: Wishy washy. Like, on the fence.
Yos: Not on the fence. But while I'm at it, let me also make excuses for why my reads on charter are probably not going to ever be valid either.
Others: More questions about meh.
Yos: Defend, defend, defend about my mehs.
GC and camn: Have an argument with each other.
Yos: I'll just fan the argument flames from the sidelines.
OGML: Bring up Patrick re: Yos' nonread on him
Yos: I'll just rehash statements about not reading Patrick. And question why anyone would think he is scum
Yos: Ah, the perfect moment to finally make some comment about something going on around me. I'll begin by joining the growing chorus of people who find Green Crayons to be strikingly town. And devilishly handsome. I'll follow that up with a quick buddy up to camn, because you can never have too many friends. Finally I'll throw in some unsolicited support for Ether v. Xdaamno with a boxing metaphor just to make sure that keeps going while I sit over here comfortably on the sidelines. To finish, let me just tell Xdaamno that we most certainly have enough information now to better-than-random vote someone (so you should probably get off Patrick already). Don't mind that my vote hasn't moved since my barely better than random initial vote for you.
...
Yos: I'm a miller!

Thank you, thank you. I'm holding auditions for the part of Yosarian2 starting at the end of the upcoming night phase. I think that Patrick and possibly Incognito have the requisite experience of "being Yos' scumpartner" that I'm looking for in a leading man.

[OhGodMyLife]

Yosarian2 in Ludd: A One-Act by OhGodMyLife

Yos: Meh, I say. Meh! Also, vote X
Others: Why so Meh? Was your X vote random?
Yos: Random? Why of course not.
Yos: While I'm at it, let me defend my use of the word meh. It was not wishy washy. It just means I am not making any definitive statements about the alignments of any players involved in any debates so far.

Oh, thats what wishy washy is? Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Others: So then, what nonrandom reason do you have for voting X?
Yos: Ummm... everyone had posted already, so my standard random vote would not apply. *Cough* Let me just reiterate that I still haven't found anything to comment on in the ongoing debates between other players. But X's only post so far was like totally not townly. Srsly.
Yos: Also, I will now give a reason for why my reads on Patrick can't be trusted and therefore I probably will never meaningfully comment on Patrick's alignment.
Others: Wishy washy. Like, on the fence.
Yos: Not on the fence. But while I'm at it, let me also make excuses for why my reads on charter are probably not going to ever be valid either.
Others: More questions about meh.
Yos: Defend, defend, defend about my mehs.
GC and camn: Have an argument with each other.
Yos: I'll just fan the argument flames from the sidelines.
OGML: Bring up Patrick re: Yos' nonread on him
Yos: I'll just rehash statements about not reading Patrick. And question why anyone would think he is scum
Yos: Ah, the perfect moment to finally make some comment about something going on around me. I'll begin by joining the growing chorus of people who find Green Crayons to be strikingly town. And devilishly handsome. I'll follow that up with a quick buddy up to camn, because you can never have too many friends. Finally I'll throw in some unsolicited support for Ether v. Xdaamno with a boxing metaphor just to make sure that keeps going while I sit over here comfortably on the sidelines. To finish, let me just tell Xdaamno that we most certainly have enough information now to better-than-random vote someone (so you should probably get off Patrick already). Don't mind that my vote hasn't moved since my barely better than random initial vote for you.
...
Yos: I'm a miller!

Thank you, thank you. I'm holding auditions for the part of Yosarian2 starting at the end of the upcoming night phase. I think that Patrick and possibly Incognito have the requisite experience of "being Yos' scumpartner" that I'm looking for in a leading man.

[OhGodMyLife]

I see that the site was so moved by my penmanship it found it necessary to hiccup and make it a doublepost.

[Ether]

Patrick, I worried about you very early on in i10, too, before moving on, even if I didn't say it out loud. There it was more anxiousness for you to post; here your posts on Page 1 actually bugged me a bit. I twitched at your apathetic acknowledgement of my Incogvote, and again at that vagueness with Skitzer in your 20. Yeah, I dismissed it, but it was there.

I'mma

unvote; vote: Yosarian2

. Filtering his posts, there's just not a lot there. And I hate the claim. (I don't think Incognito is scum. The Patrick/Yosarian connection is too blatant for my tastes as well.)

Having said that, I would

still

like Izzy's and Xdaamno's top threes, and I am

still

eagerly awaiting Korts's catchup post.

[Xdaamno]

If you think he's town and if you're town, why would you want people to choose sides on your back-and-forths?:

Actually, you know, I would be fine if you just read a few of our back-and-forth points before you took sides, because I honestly believe I have defeated each and every argument he has presented.

So it could end quicker.

[Yosarian2]

LOL!

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian

I have to see how you get out of this.

Oh, I probably don't; if I don't get lynched today, I expect to get vig killed. Which, of course, is why I would never be stupid enough to claim miller as scum, but you're going to cry WIFOM and lynch me anyway.

Why would we want a claimed miller of your caliber alive in endgame?

Because I'm town.

[Yosarian2]

I'mma

unvote; vote: Yosarian2

. Filtering his posts, there's just not a lot there. And I hate the claim. (I don't think Incognito is scum. The Patrick/Yosarian connection is too blatant for my tastes as well.)

Hmm. Surprising, Ether was the one person I didn't think would vote for me on a knee jerk reaction just because I'm a miller.

I guess Incog is right; she's probably scum; town Ether generally knows better then this.

Vote:Ether

[Yosarian2]

Really, though, if people actually think I'm scum and this isn't just a "der lynch the miller der" policy vote, I'd really like someone to explain why they thing I would do something this godawefully stupid on day 1 as scum, or find one example in all the hundreds of games I've played of me EVER doing a hugely risky gambit on day 1 for no reason, or to give SOME kind of logical reason why I would want to to do this as scum.

Do people think I'm a VI now or soemthing? Because I'd have to be to claim miller if I wasn't one.

[charter]

So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?

This is no policy vote.

This is a lie by the way. OMGL voted right after he claimed, giving virtually no hint of moving his vote onto Yos before the claim.

[Yosarian2]

So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?

This is no policy vote.

This is a lie by the way. OMGL voted right after he claimed, giving virtually no hint of moving his vote onto Yos before the claim.

(nods) No one did. I was clearly in absolutly no danger at all before my claim. And he also has yet to explain how claiming on page 8 when I'm in absolutly no danger is any worse then claiming on page 1, unless with his little play there he's seriously trying to suggest that I'm trying to get myself lynched in order to protect my scumbuddy, and that's just

[Green Crayons]

I disagree with Yos that the placement of his claim within the day has absolutely no impact on our perception of his claim. The very fact that it has impacted my perception proves that this is false.

Regardless, I don't know why Scum-Yos would put his neck out like this on page 8. As others had pointed out, he was sliding by without much content or input (scummy) - but he could have easily modified his behavior without having to claim miller (easiest/safest path for scum to take). He hadn't had any real suspicion lobbed against him up until his claim. If we are to assume Yos is scum fake claiming miller when no attention was on him in the first half of D1, then I'm also supposed to assume that Yos was putting his neck on the line for a really shitty fake claim. I don't know if I can assume such a monstrosity of a risky gambit would be undertaken by any seasoned player - especially one who could probably convince the town that he was town simply through normal play.

That said, I think the reasons for Yos revealing miller status are lame and short-sighted (and a bit self-centered). Apart from the fact that there are plenty of other investigation-worthy players based off of the "normal" standards, if he showed himself to be pretty solidly town during the days he probably wouldn't fall under any investigator's watchful eye.

I'm not going to switch to a Yos vote in the foreseeable future.