Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Albert B. Rampage]

A live townie is a townie we need.

You just want to keep him around for a while longer so you have an easier time attacking me. Don't think that I don't see through your little game here.

[SpyreX]

Alas, I am undone. My cruel machinations, my elaborate schemes, all destroyed by the piercing arrow of "effing dumb".

My mistake, no matter how you cut it, has no actual motive for scum much less for an SK.

Nor am I pleading "Please let me live I'll never, ever use my powers again" because, well, that'd be a lie and easily setup for scum machinations.

I will die. I have to die. There is no way I can live to lylo. That as a given, changing my win condition from possible to do to impossible due to my own actions is more than just "effing dumb" - it makes absolutely no sense.

And that's what you are holding on to. That I am actively playing against my win condition.

My questions have meaning - when looked at with more than a cursory glance, they in and of themselves put it in perspective. Yet, they are pish-poshed aside.

If Shadow Knight is scum, he's doing a good job of it at this point. I dig the thought process.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That I am actively playing against my win condition.

That you aren't competent enough to play to your

future

win condition.

Alas, I am undone. My cruel machinations, my elaborate schemes, all destroyed by the piercing arrow of "effing dumb".

I'm liking you more and more.

If Shadow Knight is scum, he's doing a good job of it at this point. I dig the thought process.

Just because he's in bed with you doesn't mean he's scum. He might be a townie thinking that I'm scum, and wants to keep you alive to kill me because he thinks it will be harder to convince people that I am scum if you're gone.

[Kinetic]

I do so loath meatloaf.

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

The Sixth Vote Count

1. (0) Mr. Flay -
   
2. (0) Isacc -
   
3. (3)
   fuzzylightning - Kison, Mastermind of Sin, Isacc
   
4. (0) MacavityLock -
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (1)
   Cyberbob - MacavityLock
   
8. (0) Kairyuu -
   
9. (0) Tenchi -
   
10. (5)
    Albert B. Rampage - SpyreX, Mr. Flay, Seraphim, Shadow Knight
    
11. (0) armlx -
    
12. (0) Slicey -
    
13. (1)
    Mastermind of Sin - Mufasa
    
14. (0) Tuberkulos -
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (1)
    Shadow Knight - Kairyuu
    
17. (0) Mufasa -
    
18. (5)
    SpyreX - Sajin, xxFabianxx, Faraday, Moratorium, Albert B. Rampage
    
19. (0) xxFabianxx -
    
20. (0) Myndrunner -
    
21. (0) Faraday -
    
22. (0) Sajin
    
23. (0) hasdgfas -
    
24. (0) Knights of Cydonia -
    
25. (0) MrBuddyLee -
    
26. (0) Kison -

Votes Required to Lynch:

14

Not Voting (12): julienvonwolfe, Cyberbob, Tenchi, armlx, Slicey, Tuberkulos, SpyreX, Myndrunner, Knights of Cydonia, MrBuddyLee, hasdgfas, fuzzylightning

FoS Count

1. (0) Mr. Flay -
   
2. (0) Isacc -
   
3. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
4. (2)
   MacavityLock - Seraphim, Mr. Flay
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (0) Cyberbob -
   
8. (0) Kairyuu -
   
9. (0) Tenchi -
   
10. (1)
    Albert B. Rampage - Isacc
    
11. (0) armlx -
    
12. (0) Slicey -
    
13. (0) Mastermind of Sin -
    
14. (0) Tuberkulos -
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (2)
    Shadow Knight - Cyberbob, Knight of Cydonia
    
17. (0) Mufasa -
    
18. (1)
    SpyreX - Mastermind of Sin
    
19. (0) xxFabianxx -
    
20. (0) Myndrunner -
    
21. (0) Faraday -
    
22. (0) Sajin -
    
23. (0) hasdgfas -
    
24. (0) Knights of Cydonia -
    
25. (0) MrBuddyLee -
    
26. (0) Kison -

Not FoSing (20): MacavityLock, julienvonwolfe, Kairyuu, Tenchi, Albert B. Rampage, armlx, Slicey, Tuberkulos, Moratorium, Shadow Knight, Mufasa, SpyreX, xxFabianxx, Myndrunner, Faraday, Sajin, hasdgfas, MrBuddyLee, Kison, fuzzylightning

Current Deadline:

May 15, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 1, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

[Shadow Knight]

Just because he's in bed with you doesn't mean he's scum. He might be a townie thinking that I'm scum, and wants to keep you alive to kill me because he thinks it will be harder to convince people that I am scum if you're gone.

What? This makes absolutely "no effing" sense. If he's already turned and is a SK then why would I continue to try and get you lynched? If he isn't turned then you just pushed for a townie's lynch and I shouldn't *need* to work to build a wagon on you. This post reeks of scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

God, how old are you SK?

[Shadow Knight]

Is that question relevant to this game?

[Sajin]

I don't agree. A live townie is a townie we need. I don't know how this theme is going to work with cops and such, but we can always check him later. Did insane people automatically become darkfriends?

In the mini the sk gained a NK immunity and investigation immunity power.

Why would you want to keep this role around again?

[Shadow Knight]

I haven't read the mini. Can someone answer whether all insane people became darkfriends? The point is that if he turns SK then we'll see extra kills. *Then* we can lynch him. I don't think he is scum at this point in time. Should that change, I'll gladly vote him.

[Shadow Knight]

I also think we should claim what room we're planning to sleep in. If Fabian has the ability to detect Saidar usage, others might have it too and this can help us narrow down what room nasty things came from.

[Sajin]

I haven't read the mini. Can someone answer whether all insane people became darkfriends? The point is that if he turns SK then we'll see extra kills. *Then* we can lynch him. I don't think he is scum at this point in time. Should that change, I'll gladly vote him.

Presumably they become insane (which is generally a solo 3rd faction), the man who could channel in the mini died early.

Your theorizing in a small sand box. "Extra kills" could happen from so many things including but not limited to: more sks, vigs, bomb death, triggered abilities, warder trigger (see mini) etc etc. And healing could construe the "true" number as well.

It would be difficult to confirm. Less night kills means more lynches which is protown. Why not nip it off at the bud?

[Shadow Knight]

What about that gentling thing? Wouldn't that effectively neuter him and confirm some people at the same time (if they were forced to claim)?

[Seraphim]

I don't agree. A live townie is a townie we need. I don't know how this theme is going to work with cops and such, but we can always check him later. Did insane people automatically become darkfriends?

Let me clarify...

In the last game, the male channeler eventually went insane and became an SK the more he used his power. Also, this marks the second time that I've outed the male channeler in almost the exact same way.

In the last game, we were forced to kill him because it required two Aes Sedai to gentle...and one of them already had claimed, forcing him to protect himself from attack.

I say we see what tomorrow brings...but I would much rather lynch the obvscum ABR.

[Seraphim]

And no, insane people are not Darkfriends.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I believe Fabian claimed the ability to still people if an Aes Sedai teaches him. I don't know if this extends to gentling saidin channellers, but regardless, it would be interesting to see what happens to SpyreX, because as well as insanity, saidin channellers inevitably fall to a flesh-rot disease, meaning that SpyreX may well not have a chance to harm teh town. However, I think SpyreX made a major slip that is going to push me to vote for him:

1.) Using my power multiple times day 1 until I am actually an SK and get whatever shiny SK powers I might have (which, as will be seen, I can do).

This, to me, sounds like it comes from a role PM, and that SpyreX knows, or at least guesses, that he

will

become an SK, and this is a huge double bluff. I think this is almsot directly from his role PM because in the Wheel of Time novels, it is clearly stated multiple times up until the Cleansing of the Taint that the process of going mad as a saidin user is time-dependent, not dependent on the amount of times the role is used - Rand regularly uses saidin before the Cleansing, implying that the insanity is a process neither sped up or abated by the use of saidin. This suggests to me that Kinetic has included this quirk in the role PM in order to give SpyreX a certain leverage as to when he becomes an SK/whatever when he goes insane. Therefore, I shall

unvote; Vote SpyreX

because the danger of having a male channeller who will inevitably go mad and do some damage to the town is far too great, especially given the current information on his current abilities, which do not strike me as greatly townie in any way.

[Seraphim]

Kinetic must be crying...the male channeler was his favorite role in the last game and it got lynched day 1 because of the exact same thing happening here.

[Knight of Cydonia]

It's the only avenue we can take though. Do you want an investigable, un-NKable SK running around? No. Do you want that to be SpyreX? Double no.

[Seraphim]

He can be gentled, still.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Gentling generally results in an early death - which suggests that SpyreX would live for a day or two, then die anyway. And as yet, we have no confirmed gentlers - we have a stiller if Fabian is trained, but we have no idea if Fabian can stop SpyreX. I suggest no-one hammers until Fabian gets mod-clarification on this.

[Faraday]

I also think we should claim what room we're planning to sleep in. If Fabian has the ability to detect Saidar usage, others might have it too and this can help us narrow down what room nasty things came from.

I'd agree w/ this.

What about that gentling thing? Wouldn't that effectively neuter him and confirm some people at the same time (if they were forced to claim)?

It would neuter him, possibly. I see seraphim has raised points about it happening in the last game.

It would confirm them as Aes Sedai, yeh true but once again not neccessarily their alignment. I still think a lynch is probably the best plan, though.

Edit by preview: Gentling could work, but oth how would we know if he's been gentled? Would it require Aes Sedai to out themselves? That's a big no no.

[Seraphim]

In the last game, two Aes Sedai working together can still or gentle any channeler in the game. I am working under the assumption this is still the case.

[Faraday]

Hmm although I suppose there might be downsides to claiming rooms too. I can't think of any but it's possible.

Anyway.

@ KOC; Fabian is of no use at the moment in that regard too. And the longer we leave it would it make it harder to gentle him? Especially if he learns to use the power. I don't see how we can be sure he's gentled though, which is my problem with that.

[SpyreX]

This, to me, sounds like it comes from a role PM, and that SpyreX knows, or at least guesses, that he will become an SK, and this is a huge double bluff. I think this is almsot directly from his role PM because in the Wheel of Time novels, it is clearly stated multiple times up until the Cleansing of the Taint that the process of going mad as a saidin user is time-dependent, not dependent on the amount of times the role is used - Rand regularly uses saidin before the Cleansing, implying that the insanity is a process neither sped up or abated by the use of saidin. This suggests to me that Kinetic has included this quirk in the role PM in order to give SpyreX a certain leverage as to when he becomes an SK/whatever when he goes insane. Therefore, I shall unvote; Vote SpyreX because the danger of having a male channeller who will inevitably go mad and do some damage to the town is far too great, especially given the current information on his current abilities, which do not strike me as greatly townie in any way.

Sigh, KoC you know better than this. You are definitely on my "after I die and am town I would -really- like you to look at this person".

I am insane. If I even reasonably guessed that I would become an SK, playing this way makes absolutely no sense.

Being honest about my role shouldn't be an indictment of some huge double-bluff if I am to become a role that wins by killing everyone (which, AGAIN, my doing this would make no sense to.)

Not to mention the flavor/anti-flavor of "Male channellers go insane and thus make sense for an SK / it is Time-dependent not dependent on number of times the role is used" which amounts to I believe you/I dont believe you.

And you have said that a doublevoter is not a town role - who does it make sense for? Scum is overpowered. SK -could- make sense... but not when they actively out themselves day 1.

That you aren't competent enough to play to your future win condition.

Did I know I was going to be an SK for sure? Then, again, you're saying its just a base of incompetence that lead to this which, as this day continues, will make less and less sense.

Now, if I didn't. Then, again, you're pushing for the lynched based on "he could be a huge threat" which although potentially valid loses a lot of steam when, after my lynch, things come up the way they do.

Just because he's in bed with you doesn't mean he's scum. He might be a townie thinking that I'm scum, and wants to keep you alive to kill me because he thinks it will be harder to convince people that I am scum if you're gone.

... I said pretty much that I do not think he is scum at all. Twice. He feels genuine through and through and is looking at this from the view of "We need to find SCUM." not "We better eliminate possibly potential threats that, really, have no chance of winning."

Hence, if he is scum, he's doing a damn good job.

@Sera:

I dub thee my scion after I'm lynched. Do NOT let KoC / ABR get away with this dance. Like I've said that is just being slid under the rug - I am the type of day 1 lynch scum salivate over and can't help but at least have a few bite into.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Since Fabian is *supposedly* specifically told he/she is a stiller alone, does this mean we may actually not have that option for Aes Sedai in this game?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yeah, ninja'd but SpyreX, I'm not saying "I believe you/I don't believe you" at all, I'm saying I believe you're going to go insane, and I think your "use power X times then go crazy" thing you've talked about is also true, because it deviates slightly from the theme whilst still being coherent enough to make sense as both thematic and a game mechanic.