Nomic II - Moratorium Wins!!!

[Rhinox]

I have a rule coming that will help the lurkers out there...

Then I'm likely to vote it down.

[Lowell]

no this is a safe one, don't worry. The insane ones come later when you're all in love with me.

[animorpherv1]

yay to all

[Juls]

Rules P20-P27 have been added to the proposals on the first page.

The following proposals have been defeated:

[mrow]

P#

[col]

Author

[col]

Rule

[col]

Yays

[col]

Nays

[col]

Expires

P16

[col]

farside22

[col]

At the start of the game (the first 3 days) only one rule may be issued to ease people into the game.

[col]

(1) farside22

[col]

(11) dizardin, Drench, KaleiÃ

[farside22]

Half the rules don't even make sense. Ugh this is why I hate this game.

[Moratorium]

Ask questions, I'll be glad to answer if it's for any of my proposals.

[farside22]

P1 - 3 no
P4 - yes
p5 - no
p6 - no
p7 - no
p8 - no
p9 - no
p10 thru p17 - no
p18 yes
p19 yes
p20 thru p24 no
p25 yes
p26 yes
p27 no

Accepted but please bold...

I swear if all that corp mumbo jumbo comes into effect I'm out of here. That is just plain confusing.

[popsofctown]

Exactly 1 million dollars is a perfect win condition. It doesn't matter, you make the money producing rules around the win condition

[Moratorium]

I'll refrain from voting on P20 and P21 until I see how the wind blows with everyone else.

Yes to P22

Takes Juls long enough to do votecount updates already

For P23, the Task object, I notice that it specifies that Commodities can be a reward, but it doesn't specify what commodity, or where that commodity comes from. Are these commodities from the player who proposes the task? Or do they appear out of the void? Can someone propose a task and reward with a commodity that someone else sells?

No to P24

This should be in a proposal that fully explains the win condition, i.e. How does one become the King of Nomic.

For P25, Third arm, what happens if someone fails to describe what they are doing with their third arm? As proposed, the answer would be "nothing".

P26, It's Kinda Common, again what happens if someone breaks the rule? It's not specified as proposed.

No to P27

As proposed, "all nays" means every nay in the game, by every player. I'd say yes to this rule if it was changed to say "all nays by the dying player" etc...

[Moratorium]

I swear if all that corp mumbo jumbo comes into effect I'm out of here. That is just plain confusing.

You probably wouldn't like Agora Nomic then.

Agora started on 30 June 1993, and celebrates its birthday on 30 June each year (rule 1727). Agora is the longest-running nomic known. Agora's 15-year history includes over 5800 legislative proposals (rule 106), the enactment (rule 105) of about a thousand rules (rule 2141), almost as many repeals, and over 2200 judicial cases (rule 991).

[farside22]

For P25, Third arm, what happens if someone fails to describe what they are doing with their third arm? As proposed, the answer would be "nothing".
...

Where youre sense of humor little mary sunshine.

[Lowell]

Moratorium is all business. I'm a little scared.

[Moratorium]

Rawr.

[Perpetuum]

Nay

- P20

Nay

- P21

Yay

- P22

Yay

- P23

Nay

- P24

Nay

- P25

Nay

- P26

Nay

- P27

[Lowell]

vote YAY on 24

. Hilarious.

[Juls]

Rules P28 and P29 have been added to the proposal list.

The following rule has passed and now is a rule of the game. However, portions of this rule are unenforcable and appear in red in the main post. The portions in question are all portions referring to NB(Nomic bucks). Until there is a rule that establishes NB or discusses how NB is rewarded, these portions will remain in red. Once a rule has been established, the portions that are currently unenforcable will be enforced.

[mrow]

P#

[col]

Author

[col]

Rule

[col]

Yays

[col]

Nays

[col]

Expires

P4

[col]

Moratorium

[col]

Currency -> The Leaderboard

: Henceforth, the mod will maintain a public record of the current balance of each player entity in the game, which will be displayed in the original post. The mod will sort the list of player entities by NB total, whereas the player entity at the top of the list will be the one with the most NB’s, and the player entity at the bottom of the list will be the one with the least NB’s.

[col]

(11) Moratorium, Drench, Perpetuum, Crazy, Rhinox, chenhsi, Empking, xelada, popsofctown, animorpherv1, farside22

[col]

(2) KaleiÐoscøpe, Lowell

[col]

May 4, 2009 8:25p.m. CDT

[Juls]

Note: I made a separate thread for rules proposals to make the original post more readable.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11358

[dizardin]

Game of Corporations -> Chief Financial Officer: The Chief Financial Officer (CFO) shall be responsible for maintaining all details related to the Game of Corporations as proposed by CEO Moratorium. This shall include, but not be limited to, currency ($$$), corporation name, chief officer's title, commodities, and such. This data shall be kept up-to-date as much as possible, with no less than one update per 3 calendar days. In recognition for this service, the CFO shall receive a wage of 10 $$$ every three calendar days. If a post is not made within the 3 calendar day limit, the corporation of the CFO is subject to a Grade 2 Offense. The first CFO shall be CEO Moratorium. A new CFO can be elected by a 50%+1 vote.

I need some clarification on this proposal before voting.

Is this a proposal to grant one of the 18 proposed CEO's a new responsibility? Or all of them?

The CFO would possibly also be called the Banker in any number of games. There is only one, and it is the job of the CFO to keep tabs on status. I would prefer this to be done via post to the thread, but also possibly in the proposals thread, so as to provide data appropriately.

Juls, is it possible to amend the rule to say 'Banker' rather than 'CFO'?

[Perpetuum]

Yay

- P28

Nay

- P29

[Juls]

@dizardin: You cannot amend a rule that already has votes on it. You have two options: 1)resubmitting it with new wording and revoting on it or 2) wait until it passes and then propose an amendment to it to be voted on. I would allow it if there were no votes on it yet. I realize this change is small but it introduces a slippery precedence.

[dizardin]

Ok, let's discuss the proposals...

Moratorium:

P1-P6 are all good, they create a good basis for a game.

P7 has an interesting appendage at the end - you ought to define 'profit' in some sense, since I can think of a couple different possible interpretations. Specifically, are we talking profit as in making

$$$

, or are we talking receiving some benefit, tangible or otherwise? It makes a difference, and it maybe hard to determine at the time of an act.

P8 is good, except it doesn't address any assets other than current balance (call it 'cash on hand'). If I've got a dozen widgets, and 200

$$$

in the Bank, they should count for something, right?

P9: I already agree with that, eh? =)

P10 sets a time limit, which is generally good, but I'm curious about the dissolution clause - what was the purpose of that, if there's already a victory condition?

P11 has potential; I'm debating it with myself.

P12, well, hey, personal profit at the expense of the company is a time-honored tradition. =)

P13-14, all good.

Lawrencelot:

P19: I agree with a one-rule-at-a-time rule, but I'd prefer it weren't retroactive.

Rhinox:

P20-P21: I'm against outright banning anyone; at least, I am, until someone is proven to be an outright turd.

P22: It's a corp-laden version of my P15. Sure.

P23: Understand that a task, if this is voted it, may be rejected by the mod if the mod cannot assess the reward action has taken place.

Empking:

P24: Um, maybe.

xelada:

P25-P27: Um, no. Too silly, and difficult to deal with in the case of the last.

Lowell:

P28: Sure, sounds good.

farside22:

P29: I'd be willing to allow an opt-out with no penalty; there's nothing to prevent an alternate win condition.

So, thus reviewed, I vote:

Yay: P1-P6, P9, P13-P14, P22, P28-P29
Nay: P12, P19-21, P25-P27

Undecided on: P7-P8, P10-P11, P23-P24.

[dizardin]

@Juls:
Understood about the precedent -- would want to avoid that, and cause a problem with votes already being cast and such. It's a small issue, which is now hopefully resolved with the clarification given.

And so it goes...

[Moratorium]

P7 has an interesting appendage at the end - you ought to define 'profit' in some sense, since I can think of a couple different possible interpretations. Specifically, are we talking profit as in making $$$, or are we talking receiving some benefit, tangible or otherwise? It makes a difference, and it maybe hard to determine at the time of an act.

I see what you mean. I'd be willing to either leave it up to the mod as a judgment call, or clarify it. Either way. If it fails as a proposal, there's another proposal from Rhinox that interprets dissolution as player loss, so I'm waiting to see how the majority wants to play it.

P8 is good, except it doesn't address any assets other than current balance (call it 'cash on hand'). If I've got a dozen widgets, and 200 $$$ in the Bank, they should count for something, right?

I made the proposal so that fines are paid with liquid cash on hand, as in if I were an apple orchard farmer, I don't think my local government would be too happy with me paying my taxes in bushels of apples. If someone else wants to put a proposal together to allow commodities to be liquidated somehow, maybe at a discount, I'd probably vote yes on it.

P10 sets a time limit, which is generally good, but I'm curious about the dissolution clause - what was the purpose of that, if there's already a victory condition?

I was looking to create an "ultimate penalty" that was just shy of player death, in this case removal of all assets (cash/loans/commodities/whatever), to allow players to keep playing if they so desired, but at a significant penalty. In a game where a driving factor is player-run stores, a large base of customers is probably better for the game than a small one.

P11 has potential; I'm debating it with myself.

Well, I'm hoping that people are willing to accept several different mechanics with which to "advance" in the game. So player-run stores, Rhinox's "Tasks", little sub-games for prizes, theft, subterfuge, lotteries, auction houses, stock markets, scams, jobs with salaries, as far as I'm concerned whatever anyone can think of and propose as means to make money is fair game and just adds a new level of interesting.

[Moratorium]

Yes to P28

[chenhsi]

Yes to 20, 21, 23, 28

no to 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29