Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Sajin]

Benmage, Aes Sedai use the one power too.

Also I slept at the river. SK was the origin of the location claiming and he flipped town. Why should we not claim locations?

More later. Busy atm.

[Faraday]

Also I slept at the river. SK was the origin of the location claiming and he flipped town. Why should we not claim locations?
.

Well a lot of people have claimed locations, with the Aes Sedai powers it may be helpful. But just b/c Sk propsed it and flipped town wouldn't make him right.

I really need to re-read the thread, but mufasa continuing being useless makes me . Try and make a post longer than one sentence mufasa.

[Moratorium]

Location Claims thusfar:

River

fuzzylightning
Sajin

Stables

SpyreX

Windmill

Mufasa
Mr. Flay
MacavityLock
Kison

Barn

Albert B. Rampage
armlx
Moratorium
Faraday

Blacksmith

Kairyuu
MisterBuddyLee
Isacc

Silo

No one.

Undeclared

Seraphim
julienvonwolfe
Benmage
Tenchi
Slicey
Mastermind of Sin
Tuberkulos
Myndrunner

None of the dead players appear to have telegraphed their locations.

There were three people sleeping in the Stables last night. One of those people do not have the best interests of the town at heart.

Assuming this notice is true and not planted, it is a big advantage to scum because claiming Stables is immediately suspicious and attention-getting, and they can avoid it.

[Benmage]

They only gained an extra power if the Man who can Channel gained full power (aka became a SK)

Well crap than, get rid of him!

Benmage, Aes Sedai use the one power too.

I know, I said it could have been Black Ajah. As I’m pretty sure under the 3 oaths regular AS can only use the one power in self-defense or against shadowspawn.

[MacavityLock]

Because ABR nor anyone claimed to have gentled him. Its seems way too convenient an excuse. One death last night was done by the one power… Gentling requires 3 AS/not 100%.(Didn’t I just list this in my last post…odd…)

There is one living claimed AS. Thus, requesting AS to claim that they gentled is rolefishing.

As for location claiming, everyone should do it.

[Kison]

ABR can come out and say whether or not he and his partner attempted to gentle Syprex if he wants, but I'm fairly certain both he and Shadow Knight said they were going to attempt it.

Just because someone was incinerated doesn't mean Spyrex is responsible for it.

FoS: Mufasa

- Who are your top three suspects? Your last list was underwhelming. Two lines explanation for each of them, please.

[Mufasa]

Thanks for asking a question Kison

My list of suspects

spyrex

There is no way I can believe that claim that he was gentled last night, I find him very shifty and even if he is sane right now I believe that he is a dangerous player/role. He most definitely is my top of suspicions

ABR

I found him suspicious day one still find him suspicious and I think his 766 post was a bit odd, why would he think he wouldn't survive the night?

Issac

Although my suspicion on him is much lower than the previous two, I believe that Issac's defense even though he has said he wasn't defending Fabian, it most certainly looked like he had a tie with Fabian, and after Fabian flipped scum it made Issac look even worse.

[SpyreX]

What makes you think that 'notice' means anything?

Because it seems like a very odd, and specific, thing for scum. Easy enough to fill out though and check.

If/when we end up with TWO people claiming it, then we'll see that the note(s) have some merit.

Let's vote the MC now.

MC?

However, why the quick move. Yesterday:

Well all caught up. I’ll agree with Isaac on letting Spry live today because in agreement with MoS because I think we have a confirmed scum in Fabian. That being said I think Spry should be either gentled/vig’d or lynched tomorrow.

So, you've presented an either/or and are opting for an AND in there instead. Why are you so sure I wasn't gentled? EVEN if SK was killed before his power worked (which isn't normal) that still leaves three within the realms of the Aes Sedai we know about.

@ABR: Did you and/or your partner (whom I dont care who it is) gentle me last night?

Thanks for asking a question Kison

My list of suspects

spyrex
There is no way I can believe that claim that he was gentled last night, I find him very shifty and even if he is sane right now I believe that he is a dangerous player/role. He most definitely is my top of suspicions

ABR

I found him suspicious day one still find him suspicious and I think his 766 post was a bit odd, why would he think he wouldn't survive the night?

Issac

Although my suspicion on him is much lower than the previous two, I believe that Issac's defense even though he has said he wasn't defending Fabian, it most certainly looked like he had a tie with Fabian, and after Fabian flipped scum it made Issac look even worse.

Funny things about this post.

1.) It is terrible and shows a total lack of paying attention to the game.
2.) It actually makes me think Mufasa is town. Not "too scummy to be scum" but more a "I am so oblivious to whats going on you're gonna have to kill me at some point"

Why is there "no way" you can believe that I was gentled last night?
Critical thinking: why would ABR assume he would be a high-probability target last night?
What is wrong with your sentence regarding Issac?

[Isacc]

Alright, I really don't feel like arguing about much today, so Mastermind, my responses to you can wait til tomorrow.

Just a few observations here.

To whoever pointed it out, my FoS of Spyrex was half-minded. I had wanted to emphasize the criticism I made, but hadn't really thought far enough to keep it an criticism (for him) rather than a full on FoS.

I agree that it would be helpful if ABR admitted if he helped to gentle Spyrex (though, if not he should just leave it at "no" and not claim whatever he did do). It may not be three, and it may not be 100% likely to work, but it's extremely likely that if he admits it, it worked (because, how else would Spyrex feel safe enough to claim he was gentled, knowing he might be counterclaimed).

I really find the whole "The One Power clearly killed the KoC" kinda odd. That seems like a pretty sure statement based on "Incinerated."

One death last night was done by the one power…

This one in particular. How does he know? Slip much?


On another note.

I also think he [Isacc] was way over-defensive at too many times during day 1.

Really? Really? Did you even read the mini that we were both in? You think defensiveness is a scumtell for me? I'd suggest you look back into the meta of me that you already have.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Four pages in one night is somewhat annoying, but oh well.

I think that the Isacc-wagon has some merit, but the case against him is circumstantial at best. I do not intend to pursue it.

@Benmage: I thought you said that if Fabian flipped scum (which he did), you were going to agree with my point on Black Ajah Aes Sedai. What changed your mind? Also, claim your location already. More than half the town have already claimed locations. You cannot attempt to argue that there is no majority opinion promoting location claims. The fact that you are fighting claiming makes me think that you slept at the Stables. Furthermore, the fact that you are trying to hide said sleeping position make me think that you are scum, and therefore have reason to resist the claim.

Fos: Benmage

@all: We need more pressure on Slicey-scum. Preferably just the right amount of pressure to see him swing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Of course I didn't gentle Spyrex.

[Albert B. Rampage]

My partner claims he gentled Spyrex last night.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I have reason to believe that SK's partner also attempted to gentle Spyrex. SK might have gentled him too. I believe Spyrex for now.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, I'm going to start to try catching up on this game now.

Glancing at the most recent page, it looks like we're doing a mass "where did you sleep" claim, which I think makes sense in order to help info roles. I don't believe the mod included that information with the role PM he sent me when I replaced in last night; I'm sending him a PM now to hopefully find out where my predecessor slept.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, got the result back from the mod. I was at the river last night.

Doing a re-read now:

Page 2: Shadow Knight (dead town) looks a little iffy, with his wierd posts where he's both making assumptions, attacking other people for making assumptions, and possibly rolefishing. If I had been in the game at the time I would have thought that behavior was scummy-looking.

Page 3: I would have expected either an attack on Shadownight or questions on him at this point. I did NOT expect this :

Thanks, Shadow Knight, for being the first AS to claim. Well done.

Power role fishing a few posts into the game, Flay? Really? I mean, yes, I can see where you got that idea from SK's posts, but why share your thoughts on his role to everyone else?

Page 4: Now Mr. Flay is trying to say he didn't actually mean that he thought Shadow Knight was Aes Sedi, and it was sarcasm. I have two problems with this. First of all, SK actually was Aes Sedi, and he kind of looked like an Aes Sedi in those early posts, so I don't think "sarcasm" really makes sense here. And secondly, "sarcasm" or not, it still kind of looks like fishing, in that if you were a scum trying to find out Shadow Knight's role, his reaction to a comment like that might help you, no matter if you were being sarcastic or not.

FOS:Mr. Flay

[Seraphim]

I slept in the silo. More content later.

[Yosarian2]

Page 5: Fabien: I dislike this post.

WIt's a valid point, we're all human and we have bias, and I don't think we should have been allowed to speak before the game started, that's why I didn't, and I think what I said before is a valid point, not about this game but about mafia games in general.

I apologise for being vague before when I said we should be more clear with our questions, but I did actually have a point about the questions, I just failed to convey it.
What I was hinting at was the age old riddle.

"You stand at a fork in the road. Next to each of the two forks, there stands a guard. You know the following things: 1. One path leads to Paradise, the other to Death.
One of the two guards always tells the truth, and the other guard always lies.
Unfortunately, it is impossible for you to distinguish between the two guards.
You may ask one question to one guard. What do you ask?

First of all; when the mod opens the thread and says we can talk, then the game has started. Posting at that point can only help the town, even if we can't vote yet. The first part seems like a weak excuse for pre-game lurking; which is kind of odd, since a lot of people never bothered to post pre-game anyway.
The bigger problem, though, is it sounds like he's suggesting some kind of test where everyone lies, in order to see who can lie, or someting like that; that would out all the aes sedi for no good reason.

Fos:Fabien

...right after I typed this up, I checked the player list and realized Fabien is already dead and was scum. Ok, cool. I'll leave this here anyway; this was my first reaction to reading Fabien's post, and if I leave it here in thread I can compare it to other people's reactions.
Page 6:

The ONLY people bound to the three oaths are Aes Sedai, and the ONLY people in the entire books that could not lie were Aes Sedai. So, unless you can figure some reason why an Aes Sedai would suddenly become a SK or other non-town role, then this whole pursuit was pointless.

Well, let me delve into setup specualtion here, based on my knowlege of the books, although I haven't read them in a while. I'm not sure when exactally this is taking place. There WERE, at one point, male aes sedi, but I think that (all? most?) of them went insane and took part in the breaking of the world, and appaently this game happens after that. Also, I think the Oath Rod was a pretty recent development in the Aes Sedi; the ancient Aes Sedi, back in the days when there were male Aes Sedi, did not use it (I think.) So, no, I don't think it's likely there are any male aes sedi in this game bound by the oath rod.

Unvote, Vote: fuzzylightning

First you FoS Shadow Knight for his talk of Aes Sedai while he is trying to stop people from outing them, then you vote Fabian for trying to out Aes Sedai? This is not only inconsistent, but it smells a bit fishy to me as well.

BIG

FOS:MOS

I think it's pretty clear Fabian WAS trying to out pro-town power roles. Him attacking FuzzyLightning for pointing that out seems scummy to me, in a "chainsaw defense" kind of way.

(Albert also voted FuzzyLightning, but his vote dosn't look as bad to me)

Issac votes McCavity lock now (post 146)...I have no idea why at all.

Page 7: Fabien claims; not clear to me based on his claim if the scum have fake claims or not. Hascow votes him based on the claim.

Fabien claims some more, claims doctor.

Albert votes him...then unvotes him a few posts later? ALBERT, COULD YOU EXPLAIN THE POST 171 UNVOTE, PLEASE?

He then said it was because of "his location and signature"? Yes, yes, Irish drunk jokes; the whole unvote here still bugs me, especally since I don't think Fabien was supposed to have been drunk either when he went Aes Sedi fishing with dynimate or when he made that odd claim..

Fabian is so town (retarded town, but town nonetheless) right now it hurts.

Uh...what?
Issac then defends Fabian for the following reasons:

Next, DO NOT lynch Fabian. I have about 100 reasons for this (exaggeration...)

1. There may be other Aes Sedai with less effective healing abilities who can protect him (see WoT Mini).

2. His claim is pretty solid. Wisdoms existed simply as town healers. (Well...and weathermen).

3. With the ability to sleep in different areas, there is a chance that a killing role does not pick the same place as him and thus he may be safe from death this night.

4. Better a scumlynch and power role NK than a power role lynch and another NK.

5. Yes, he played terribly and should NOT have claimed, however I see no reason for a scum to do this.

Defending a scum ALWAYS has to be considered a scum tell, no matter what. However, at least Issac had good reasons for it; I might have been reluctent to lynch a claimed doctor at the time as well, so I suppose it's only a small scumtell in this case.

Issac then said he apperantly ment to be voting FuzzyLightning instead of McCavity Lock; dosn't make me feel any better about him.

Mr. Flay "reluctantly" unvotes Fabien after doc claim. Fair enough. Also, lol @ Mr. Flay's post 216.

I am 100% telling the truth about my role. Crazy-as-a-loon Saidar wielding secret voter.

Um...if this is true...then does this mean SpyreX may become scum or a SK or something in the future?
Ok, lots of other people pointed this out as well.

You are lynching me for being clear with my role because I -may- become a SK because in the -other- game (the one that the mod said this one isn't a mirror of) the same thing happened?

Well, I would also add to this that, flavorwise, men who channel Sadan tend to insane over time, generally in the "let's kill everyone and burn the world" kind of way. And it sounds like you're already starting to go insane. So, along with the other game, there's good flavor reasons for thinking you may turn into a SK, SpyreX. Not that town should bet too heavily on flavor, of course, but it's worth noting.
Lots of people push for a SpyreX policy lynch, for that exact reason. If SpyreX is telling the truth, then voting him for that reason is basically a null tell, IMHO, something both town and scum are equally likely to do here, so I'm not going to try to read much into all that.

On page 13, I don't see any reason for Mr. Flay's jester speculation Ugh.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I find Yosarian mildly scummy.

[Benmage]

Just because someone was incinerated doesn't mean Spyrex is responsible for it.

I know, but its worth recognizing the possibility.

One death last night was done by the one power…

This one in particular. How does he know? Slip much?

Paid attention to the fact that one also died in a firey crisp in Kinetics post.

@Kairyuu I was merely saying possible users of the one power.

and I slept in the river, for the record...i dont think any1 will claim stables for obv reasons.

[Yosarian2]

I find Yosarian mildly scummy.

Why?

Also, more importantly, answer the question I just asked you.

[Mr. Flay]

I did NOT expect this :

Thanks, Shadow Knight, for being the first AS to claim. Well done.

Power role fishing a few posts into the game, Flay? Really? I mean, yes, I can see where you got that idea from SK's posts, but why share your thoughts on his role to everyone else?

Page 4: Now Mr. Flay is trying to say he didn't actually mean that he thought Shadow Knight was Aes Sedi, and it was sarcasm. I have two problems with this. First of all, SK actually was Aes Sedi, and he kind of looked like an Aes Sedi in those early posts, so I don't think "sarcasm" really makes sense here. And secondly, "sarcasm" or not, it still kind of looks like fishing, in that if you were a scum trying to find out Shadow Knight's role, his reaction to a comment like that might help you, no matter if you were being sarcastic or not.

FOS:Mr. Flay

It's no lie to say that I was already frustrated with the roleclaims at that point in the game. And it's no lie to say that I wasn't SK's partner-mason, so while he was giving off 'Aes Sedai tells' it wasn't like I literally thought he was one. This is kinda a stretch, but I realize you've got another 30 pages or so to read. The Jester thing will also make more sense later...

Vote: Benmage

- it's not useful to stall at this point. I really don't want to comment on the notice itself until everybody either claims location or firmly states that they won't. I think there's a wealth of information in those tiny facts.

[MrBuddyLee]

And it's no lie to say that I wasn't SK's partner-mason, so while he was giving off 'Aes Sedai tells' it wasn't like I literally thought he was one.

Are you concerned that scum can eliminate possibilities for Aes Sedai now or in the future when you make statements like these?

[Benmage]

@Mr.Flay I claimed river in the post above your vote for me.

[Kinetic]

I think all of these issues date back to the time of the Lunar Eclipse.

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

I am a bit behind on prods, an impromptu move from my college apartment has me very upended. I'm getting back on my feet.

The Fourteenth Vote Count

1. (0) Mr. Flay -
   
2. (3)
   Isacc - SpyreX, MacavityLock, Kison
   
3. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
4. (0) MacavityLock -
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (1)
   Benmage - Mr. Flay
   
8. (0) Kairyuu -
   
9. (0) Yosarian2 -
   
10. (0) Albert B. Rampage -
    
11. (0) armlx -
    
12. (1)
    Slicey - Kairyuu
    
13. (0) Mastermind of Sin -
    
14. (0) Tuberkulos -
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (0) Mufasa -
    
17. (0) SpyreX - Benmage
    
18. (0) Myndrunner -
    
19. (0) Faraday -
    
20. (0) Sajin -
    
21. (1)
    MrBuddyLee - Albert B. Rampage
    
22. (0) Kison -

Votes Required to Lynch:

12

Not Voting (20): Mr. Flay, Isacc, fuzzylightning, MacavityLock, Seraphim, julienvonwolfe, Cyberbob, Yosarian2, armlx, Slicey, Mastermind of Sin, Tuberkulos, Moratorium, Shadow Knight, Mufasa, SpyreX, Myndrunner, Faraday, Sajin, Tucking Fypo, Kison

FoS Count

1. (0) Mr. Flay -
   
2. (1)
   Isacc - Mastermind of Sin
   
3. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
4. (0) MacavityLock -
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (0) Benmage -
   
8. (0) Kairyuu -
   
9. (0) Yosarian2 -
   
10. (1)
    Albert B. Rampage - MrBuddyLee
    
11. (0) armlx -
    
12. (0) Slicey -
    
13. (1)
    Mastermind of Sin - Yosarian2
    
14. (0) Tuberkulos -
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (1)
    Mufasa - Kison
    
17. (2)
    SpyreX - Benmage, Isacc
    
18. (0) Myndrunner -
    
19. (0) Faraday -
    
20. (0) Sajin -
    
21. (2)
    MrBuddyLee - Albert B. Rampage, SpyreX
    
22. (0) Kison -

Not FoSing (20): Mr. Flay, Isacc, fuzzylightning, MacavityLock, Seraphim, julienvonwolfe, Cyberbob, Kairyuu, Yosarian2, armlx, Slicey, Mastermind of Sin, Tuberkulos, Moratorium, Mufasa, SpyreX, Myndrunner, Faraday, Sajin, Kison

Current Deadline:

May 20, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 13, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: fuzzylightning

First you FoS Shadow Knight for his talk of Aes Sedai while he is trying to stop people from outing them, then you vote Fabian for trying to out Aes Sedai? This is not only inconsistent, but it smells a bit fishy to me as well.

BIG

FOS:MOS

I think it's pretty clear Fabian WAS trying to out pro-town power roles. Him attacking FuzzyLightning for pointing that out seems scummy to me, in a "chainsaw defense" kind of way.

I wasn't voting fuzzylightning because I thought Fabian wasn't trying to out Aes Sedai. I was voting fuzzylightning for flip-flopping between voting someone who was trying to stop Aes Sedai from being outed to voting someone who was tyring to out Aes Seadi.