Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nvm, read that one wrong.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote armlx

[Albert B. Rampage]

The Flay scenario is interesting. If he was scum, odds are he could just tell his partners as there's presumably "day" talk given this is Deep South. Its also possible he's some traitor role (Black Ajah maybe?) not in on a day talk, so....

Why "presumably"?

Unvote

Vote armlx

[Kairyuu]

@Mr. Flay:

Until this last post, though, you haven't really made much of a case on him. I don't like Slicey's behavior any more than you do, but just saying "row row row lynch!" isn't pushing for a lynch in any more than the most rudimentary way.

He has contributed almost nothing. Until he posts more content for me to analyze, this is all I can do.

I'm not sure it's really scummy of you because it may just be your style (a poor man's Xylithxm/IS), but it's not terribly helpful.

My playstyle tends to fluctuate. I get like this when I either have few other leads I see as valid, or I haven't really gotten immersed in a game yet to the point where I'm confident in my reads. This is a combination of both. I'm hoping to be able to latch onto a few solid reads soon, as currently I'm only confident that Albert and SpyreX are town, and that Slicey is scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I haven't done anything to prove that I am town......

[Kairyuu]

You've claimed Aes Sedai. I believe the claim. I was the one who proposed the theory that there are no Black Ajah Aes Sedai, so the fact that I believe you to be Aes Sedai automatically means I believe you to be town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why do you think there are no Black Aes Sedai?

For how long has the Black Ajah existed in the books?

[Faraday]

I agree w/ Kairyuu regarding Slicey in that 1) He's done very little, and 2) what he has done has seemed scummy, esp the backing down on the points he made after being challenged. Looks like he's trying to appease, MBL by saying it's only "IGMEOY" worthy.

I guess I see the reasoning for the Flay votes, I think while he explained his reasoning for jester speculation it still seems odd to me, altho' idk if I buy the fishing, I guess I could see it.

Meh anyway I prob need to re-read, don't have time for much more than skimming and keeping up for the next week or so, as this is my last week of exams.

[Faraday]

Why do you think there are no Black Aes Sedai?

For how long has the Black Ajah existed in the books?

He's already explained this, Albert. I completely disagree w/ his reasoning, ftr, but I think it's something to do with something that Kinetic said regarding "if there are aes sedai in this game then they're bound by the three oaths.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I read his reasoning already. And I read the wiki. The wiki said that AS of the black Ajah are not bound by the three oaths, instead they are bound by a different oath that renders them incapable of outing one of their own.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

Alright. This has been bothering me for a bit, so I had to come mention it.

The speculation about Black Ajah is stupid, and contradicts the mod's own words.

There may or may not be Aes Sedai in this game.

If they are, they will be bound to these oaths.

Note the bold.

All

Aes Sedai must follow the Three Oaths according to the mod's own words. This means that Black Ajah Aes Sedai either do not exist, or are bound by the oaths. Given that Kinetic is a good mod, and knows how to balance a setup, he would not put roles into a game that must claim scum if asked.

The logical conclusion is that there are none of the Black Ajah in the game. All Aes Sedai should be assumed town in my opinion.

That's all I came here for. Tomorrow is my last day fo school, so soon I will be able to read the thread and get caught up.

Town Wisdom was a solid claim though.

Having to take 50/50 chance guess on whether or not someone had used Saidar was the problem.

Kill all Aes Sedai, they suck.

Thank you and GOODNIGHT!

@Benmage:

I don’t understand how this is a point….soo sorry I missed it…

Read it. Fabian, who is a claimed scum, had to guess as to whether the Power was channeled or not. He got it WRONG. Therefore, he had no source of information on the subject. In other words, he did not know because he did not have a Black Ajah Aes Sedai partner to stop him from being stupid.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts, and the proof offered by Fabian is in bold.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Black Ajah were first mentioned in the second book. May have been the third. I don't remember exactly.

Preview Edit:

@Faraday: What do you have to say to the fact that Fabian, who is now confirmed scum, did not know whether or not the Power was channeled, and had to guess at it?

Preview Edit number 2:

@Albert: Then why did you ask for my reasoning?

[Albert B. Rampage]

<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.

Do not forget this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think its naive and foolhardy to believe that the black ajah doesn't exist based on your poor reasoning.

[MrBuddyLee]

FOS: Kairyuu

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: Except that the mention of the Aes Sedai is part of the General Knowlege section, not one of the rules. Why would Kinetic give us faulty information in his explanation of the theme?

Also, the Fabian bit is the closest thing to hard evidence in my theory, so I see that as quite an important factor.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: Oh yeah, I'm really scared of a Fos without any backing.

@Albert: Can you please explain to be how it is poor reasoning when we have proof that one of the scum did not know something that all Aes Sedai know? The proof being that he got it wrong.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Albert: Except that the mention of the Aes Sedai is part of the General Knowlege section, not one of the rules. Why would Kinetic give us faulty information in his explanation of the theme?

Also, the Fabian bit is the closest thing to hard evidence in my theory, so I see that as quite an important factor.

You extrapolated where extrapolation was not due. Your logic is bad.

Anything a confirmed scum says is to be discarded immediately.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Albert: Can you please explain to be how it is poor reasoning when we have proof that one of the scum did not know something that all Aes Sedai know? The proof being that he got it wrong.

I have a theory that Black Ajah might not be able to communicate with the mafia directly. Since we are in pairs, the mafia would know exactly which power roles to kill if the scum AS could talk to them.

[Kairyuu]

Anything a confirmed scum says is to be discarded immediately.

The fact that he was

wrong

is pretty damn convincing evidence that it shouldn't be discarded.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert: That theory is based on just as much speculation as mine is. You cannot argue that yours is any better.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Albert: That theory is based on just as much speculation as mine is. You cannot argue that yours is any better.

The difference is that I'm playing safe, and you are willing to consider any AS as confirmed town. This is a huge problem.

[Faraday]

@Faraday: What do you have to say to the fact that Fabian, who is now confirmed scum, did not know whether or not the Power was channeled, and had to guess at it?

Hmm fair point, otoh it's possible there's black ajah that's working similar to a mafia traitor mechanic or other posibillities I'm sure I haven't though of. I see your point I just don't think it disproves Black Ajah being present.

[Kairyuu]

@Albert:

The difference is that I'm playing safe, and you are willing to consider any AS as confirmed town. This is a huge problem.

Playing it safe is boring for me. You know this very well.

I don't see it as a problem. If you guys don't want to agree with me, then fine, don't. That won't change my opinion, and if I'm right at the end of the game, I get to rub it in all of your faces.

@Faraday: Fair enough. There are, of course, other explanations to everything. I still think I'm right though.

[Benmage]

<2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins.

Do not forget this.

Ahh yeah missed this. Well than Yeah I go back to definitely believing the possible existence of black ajah. I never really found Kairyuu’s logic sound to begin with.

I think its naive and foolhardy to believe that the black ajah doesn't exist based on your poor reasoning.

Agree, where was everyone when Kairyuu was arguing this before?

@Albert: Except that the mention of the Aes Sedai is part of the General Knowlege section, not one of the rules. Why would Kinetic give us faulty information in his explanation of the theme?

Its not faulty information Black Ajah are technically AS, but they exist beyond the bounds (oaths) that the normal AS have. Back to the fact that Kinetic gave this same information, but in the mini made it open-ended (in the AS role descriptions of their partners) makes your logic flawed.

@Albert: Can you please explain to be how it is poor reasoning when we have proof that one of the scum did not know something that all Aes Sedai know? The proof being that he got it wrong.

He wasn’t AS he was Forsaken. He may have acted rashly without confirming with fellow AS. The darkfriend team may not know all their members. This gets into a lot of unnecessary speculation.

My only point is it seems illogical to throw out the possibility of black AS.

@Albert: That theory is based on just as much speculation as mine is. You cannot argue that yours is any better.

The difference is that I'm playing safe, and you are willing to consider any AS as confirmed town. This is a huge problem.

Mmmmhhhhmmmm

[Sajin]

Even now I fear to write what I heard... but I must get it out of my head...

"The Black Ajah do not exist. That is a lie that was created by people who hate Aes Sedai. If I hear such blasphemy again I will..."

I left before I heard anything more...[/i]

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

The above quote although adding nothing definitive to the current debate, tells me that its possible for there to be Black Ajah aes sedai in this game. Can we at least agree on the possibility?

@MoS Ok, thanks for the cooperation/information

unfos

.

@ABR You claimed all Aes Sedai are in pairs. How do you know this? Although perhaps logical, I would consider other possibilities. I find your post 879 very odd as well.

Fos to another non location claimer.

fos: tuberkulos