Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Kairyuu

FOS: armlx

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why the FoS on armlx?

For that matter, why the vote on Kairyuu? I understand why I find Kairyuu scummy, but I want to see you articulate so that I can believe you are thinking critically as you make choices in this game, rather than just blindly following what other people say and flailing votes around like you're hoping one of us is a piñata that will start spewing scum-candy if you hit it enough.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think a mob is forming......armlx, MoS, Yosarian.

Kairyuu says I'm confirmed town which I am not comfortable with. Only scum would say something like that when there's no evidence to prove it. If you look at his overall posts, all he does is look out for himself. Furthermore, its impossible that Kairyuu is AS because he claimed that Fabian was 100% scum before Fabian died.

[MrBuddyLee]

*insert generic "your mom" joke here*

Hey Slicey, get your ass in here. What do you think of Kairyuu?

Isacc, what do you think of Slicey and Kairyuu?

[Mr. Flay]

You extrapolated where extrapolation was not due. Your logic is bad.

Anything a confirmed scum says is to be discarded immediately.

Blood and ashes, ABR, when did you start making so much

sense

?

Kairyuu isn't making any sense, on the other hand, in this dogged belief that all Aes Sedai are

a priori

town. The "personal attacks" thing looks like overreaction of a team that is already down one member. I'm liking

Vote: Kaiyruu

right now. Especially because

Also, I totally forgot you were in this game when I was addressing MBL. I was planning to tell you this at some point. I dug up your old doc gambit from the Pie E7 that you and Adel were ICing and applied it to the F11 setup in Newbie 750. It worked brilliantly. Caught scum D1 and D2 in an all vanilla setup.

looks a lot like trying to get MBL on his side for reasons totally unrelated to the game. On the other hand, Benmage's 909 pretty much dopes contain a contradiction. You can't just say

"I agree with your probable assumption of no black AS"

and then assert that you never found his logic compelling.

FoS: benmage

Also, LOL at Yos' "gentiled" last page. The whole Isacc thing is still kinda sketchy to me (and yes, if he flips scum I'm a dead man) but at least I can see some logic to it. I still think isacc is being more useful/pro-town than Kairyuu at this point.

[Benmage]

I agreed that Kairyuu’s theory had the possibility of being sound if(when) Fabian flipped scum. I understand the mentality behind Kairyuu’s theory and it isn’t a terrible irrational stance. However I have had and have an underlying eerie feeling that in a game of this magnitude the odds of Black AS are high. This was why I was originally in opposition to Kairyuu’s theory. Yet Kairyuu provided some decent points. Mainly that a black AS would’ve warned Fabian that there was no Saidar detection. This is where my inner-conflict begins and where I am still torn on the issue. While I agree that a Black AS could’ve and should’ve warned Fabian if they exist, I don’t agree that just because this didn’t occur we can rule out Black AS. And yes, I have maintained this original sentiment despite yielding to the possibility of no Black AS. Once I thought more on the issue, and remembered ‘role trumps rule’ I reasserted my original stance. The reason I stated I never found it all too sound, is because deep down inside I couldn’t reject and absolutely 100% rule out Black AS, which is what I believed Kairyuu attempted to do with the theory.

[Moratorium]

So, I agree with the two main cases currently being debated. First, Kairyuu, who has completely turtled since asking him about his Slicey case, and Isacc, who Yos has made a good case about, and from whom we've yet to hear much response at all.

vote: Kairyuu

unFoS

FoS: Isacc

It seems to me that Mr. Flay has been let off the hook rather easily of late though, as post 853 never seemed to be addressed (the two "it is no lie that" statements), other than a "I've got limited access today and tomorrow so I can't respond to the attacks above right now" and a short selective response. Although I think we're still on the right track, Mr. Flay is still a matter of suspicion for me.

[Yosarian2]

It seems to me that Mr. Flay has been let off the hook rather easily of late though, as post 853 never seemed to be addressed (the two "it is no lie that" statements), other than a "I've got limited access today and tomorrow so I can't respond to the attacks above right now" and a short selective response. Although I think we're still on the right track, Mr. Flay is still a matter of suspicion for me.

(nods) I agree. After I finished the re-read, the guy with the strong connection to the dead scum seemed a higher priority, but I still do want to see a real response from Mr. Flay to my post 853.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think a mob is forming......armlx, MoS, Yosarian.

Kairyuu says I'm confirmed town which I am not comfortable with. Only scum would say something like that when there's no evidence to prove it. If you look at his overall posts, all he does is look out for himself. Furthermore, its impossible that Kairyuu is AS because he claimed that Fabian was 100% scum before Fabian died.

How is it impossible? If Kairyuu wholly believed Fabian was scum, he could make that claim, could he not? If the evidence was compelling enough (which it was, imo), I see no reason for that to break oaths (if he was AS).

Note that the above statement is in no way stating whether or not I think Kairyuu is Aes Sedai. I'm just addressing ABR's hypothetical situation, although I'm not sure why he would bring up whether or not Kairyuu is Aes Sedai before he claims. If you think Kairyuu could be scum, you should've let him claim first to see if he claimed Aes Sedai, then nailed him on the contradiction. [Announcer]

This has been another sub-optimal play brought the deranged mind of ABR.

[/Announcer] Really, ABR, what were you thinking?

[Albert B. Rampage]

How is it impossible? If Kairyuu wholly believed Fabian was scum, he could make that claim, could he not? If the evidence was compelling enough (which it was, imo), I see no reason for that to break oaths (if he was AS).

Note that the above statement is in no way stating whether or not I think Kairyuu is Aes Sedai. I'm just addressing ABR's hypothetical situation, although I'm not sure why he would bring up whether or not Kairyuu is Aes Sedai before he claims. If you think Kairyuu could be scum, you should've let him claim first to see if he claimed Aes Sedai, then nailed him on the contradiction. [Announcer]

This has been another sub-optimal play brought the deranged mind of ABR.

[/Announcer] Really, ABR, what were you thinking?

This is complete B.S.

I do not have the ability to say "x is scum" without MOD CONFIRMATION that the player is scum. That confirmation might be a lie, for example if I had a mason partner telling me that he had role confirmation that x is scum, and I believed he was in earnest. But barring unlikely circumstances such as these, I would break an oath by saying "Fabian is scum" like Kairyuu did.

So let me reiterate. I CANNOT say "x player is scum" without role confirmation / death scene / mod confirmation.

("x is scum" is a very definitive statement)

All Aes Sedai can double-check with the moderator if they wish.

Therefore, MoS, you are wrong.

[Isacc]

Alright, I was gone Saturday, and asleep most of today, and I definitely don't have time to fully point by point argue against my own lynch, so I guess that'll wait til tomorrow. Until then, a few important things to mention.

A couple of the "inconsistencies" you point out, Yos, are due to the context and/or target of the comments, not a shift in standpoint. A quick example is the accused shift from thinking Fabian's claim was solid to thinking it was bad; when I said his claim was solid, I was referring to the actual roleclaim itself as a role that made sense. Then later when I said it was a bad claim, the reference was to the action claiming at L-10 out of nowhere, thereby attracting the suspicion of half the players.


Another thing to consider; there are a few solid followers in this pack right now. Armlx is an obvious one, as well as MBL (post 857 much?). Plus, MoS 921 and 923 scream "Finally a popular target I can vote," and "I better also connect myself in case Kairyuu becomes a better target."

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not interested in your defense Isacc. I want to know who you suspect and who you think is town, and reasons if possible.

[Isacc]

I'm not interested in your defense Isacc. I want to know who you suspect and who you think is town, and reasons if possible.

Fair enough, I can do this pretty quick before I call it a night for mafia.

Scum: I am very suspicious of Armlx and MBL, because of their tendency to just follow along with the crowd. Posts 856 and 7, they both follow Yossarian's FOS's on flay. Then they quiet down until Yossarian's case against me, in which they switch over to suspecting me.

Also, I feel strongly about my reads on MoS's two posts, as outlined in my last post. He seems to be attaching himself to all the popular targets.

Town: Spyrex is probably town, mostly because with still two missing stables-sleepers, whatever two who lied about their sleeping location seem less likely to be town.

I feel like Yossarian is leaning town, actually, however I am not particularly objective in that scenario so my read is weak at best.

[Albert B. Rampage]

More importantly, is how you feel about Kairyuu.

[Isacc]

More importantly, is how you feel about Kairyuu.

I disagree with his argument about Black Ajah. However, I think it holds enough water for it to be sincere.

In terms of his play, it all seems to check out with my strong meta of his town play. His push on Slicey is a bit harder than I would expect, but in the face of the rest of his play, I think that's more an outlier in the set of town play than an actual scumtell. Note that this read is based on my meta and strong familiarity with Kairyuu's play.

[Benmage]

In relation to Spryex being town. I think it might be safe to assume so. For now at least. If we see more one power used in NK's we may have to reconsider this position.

[Benmage]

Oh wait a second that barely makes...

@Spryex.. did you use the One Power last night? (Assuming night actions are simultaneous he could've used and and been gentled in the same night)

[Isacc]

In relation to Spryex being town. I think it might be safe to assume so. For now at least. If we see more one power used in NK's we may have to reconsider this position.

I still find it suspicious that you are absolutely sure being burned = One Power.

[Kairyuu]

Oooh. Shiny Kairyuu wagon you got there guys. Can I join in?

Meh. The logic against me is crap, and I'd really rather not have to claim to get rid of the votes, since I may be able to hand you a scum on a silver platter D2 depending on how the Night goes, but since it seems many of you are incapable of listening to reason, and I'm pretty sure I'm at some high number of votes, I may as well continue the trend of early claims.

I am Nipon Machaid, and I'm a butler. Weird title for my role, but whatever. I am a motivator. Each Day I target someone and that person may use two actions instead of one. Day 1 I targetted Isacc, as he looked rather pro-town until Twilight. The multiple kills with the same flavor made me think that he might be responsible, but the fact that there were 3 instead of the 2 that I would expect gives me pause. I was planning (and am going to be sending the PM as soon as I finish this post) to motivate Albert for Day 2, as I maintain he is confimed town as long as his Aes Sedai claim is true, which I believe.

@Isacc: Can you confirm my motivation of you for D1?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nobody unvote until Isacc confirms.

[Benmage]

I still find it suspicious that you are absolutely sure being burned = One Power.

In every WoT-mafia themed game I've played 'burned to a firey crisp' or similar descriptions have always been from One Power use. To have another fire death and ignore this makes you look suspicious.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't understand your claim. I claimed AS yesterday. You believed my claim. Yet you motivated Isacc? Something smells funny.

[Isacc]

@Isacc: Can you confirm my motivation of you for D1?

You caught me just before heading off to bed.

Yes, I had a second action last night. Was wondering where that came from.



One quick thing.

In every WoT-mafia themed game I've played 'burned to a firey crisp' or similar descriptions have always been from One Power use. To have another fire death and ignore this makes you look suspicious.

Wait wait wait. It's suspicious to ignore the fact that the WoT-mafia games

you

have played featured this trend? Funny because, I don't see how I would have known this trend.

In the only WoT-mafia game I've been in, there was no such trend, so your argument against me is crap. I am not "ignoring" anything.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Isacc what's with the two missing stable sleepers? I don't get it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Isacc, did you kill anyone last night?