Mini 780 - Chosen - Game over

[populartajo]

Sure

Vote: ABR.

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote: ABR.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Somehow I know that you don't have the balls to keep that vote there.

[populartajo]

Somehow I know that you don't have the balls to keep that vote there.

Its not about balls, ABR. Its about catching scum and reactions.

[AceMarksman]

Here's what I think happened here. First, I think law and ABR are scum together. Second, to avoid them getting lynched, ABR put together a "do not lynch" list including the two scum and two townies. Third, there isn't a third.

Thoughts on this?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Very clever. Where is your vote?

[Incognito]

Vote Count #9 of Day 1

hp [leaves] (3) <-~ Nuwen, ekiM, Lawrencelot
AceMarksman (1) <-~ springlullaby
Lawrencelot (2) <-~ Claus, AceMarksman
populartajo (2) <-~ Albert B. Rampage, hp [leaves]
Albert B. Rampage (1) <-~ populartajo

With 9 alive, 5 will do it.

Saturday, May 16th at 7 P.M. EDT.

[springlullaby]

Here's what I think happened here. First, I think law and ABR are scum together. Second, to avoid them getting lynched, ABR put together a "do not lynch" list including the two scum and two townies. Third, there isn't a third.

Thoughts on this?

I think it makes you look like scum. My vote stays.

_____________

1. I'm not going to vote ABR for the remaining of the game because I've decided that he is town.

2. I think nuwen is 50/50 and needs more observation. On one hand the theory positions she has taken are pretty much pointless garbage imo - I don't get her point about universal scumtell and such at all (this is scummy because 'refuge in complexity' or the appearance thereof is common scum manoeuvre), and her vote is pretty weak when you consider all the words she has typed. On the other hand, sometimes when I want to get a game going I take random positions and argue them for england just to make something happen. I want to see more before deciding if I want to press or not.

3. @Claus: I did not misrepresent you, I asked you *why* you sounded weary because I judged that less than one page of 'theory' was hardly lethal offence. But it's ok if you say that you didn't expect the Inquisition on this point.

Now a question for you, you have repeated that you were HOS'ing me twice, but I see no effort on your part to pressure me. So, what exactly is your HoS useful for?

4. @Poptajo: I don't understand your vote. Is there anything else to it beside OMGUS? Do you think ABR is scum? Why? Your vote looks like scum vote and totally got owned by ABR there.

5. Someone asked my position on law, I made them clear already in my last post. I think the flip flop is strange, but I don't think he is as scummy as people makes him appear. I have him at neutral.

-------------

I believe that the best way to start this game off is to lynch the players who were likely veto'd by the mafia, to keep our secret lynchee alive.

Huge FoS:ABR

You want us to lynch the strongest players here? I don't think so. Strongly considering you to be scum with law, as I don't think law would have been veto'd.

This reeks so much of fake town concern and is a wholly crappy excuse for a FoS.

1. Strong players are only good to keep around if they are town. How do you know that the 'strong players' here are town?
2. Were I to assume that you are town, the 'damsel in distress' subtext here would be abhorrent. Losing strong player is bad only if the rest of town sucks.

No town actually thinks like that. Strong players are generally held under much more scrutiny because they are harder to catch as scum.

Please, can we lynch this guy already?

_________________

Since we are near deadline, my lynch wish list:
- Ace
- Poptajo
Both are high potential scum.
- hp leaves, to meet deadline if necessary and I do agree their participation after VLA sucks.

[populartajo]

4. @Poptajo: I don't understand your vote. Is there anything else to it beside OMGUS? Do you think ABR is scum? Why? Your vote looks like scum vote and totally got owned by ABR there.

I wonder if spring would vote or would not vote someone that a)ask for her lynch for no reason at all (and push it hard for weak reasons) and b)ask her to vote that person.

Spring, what would you have done if you were me?

The kid thought I wouldnt vote him. Guess he was wrong. I dont think he is obv scum but if he doesnt start making sense then Im so going to push for his death.

Now, impress me. Why do you think ABR is town?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Kid? Tajo, how old are you? Actually, it doesn't matter. I am your senior until you decide to grow some balls.

[Claus]

* Albert:

Thanks for the contribution. I think Tajo did came out a bit weak in last page's exchange with you. I'll re-read Tajo tonight, but I'm not convinced.

* Replying a bit to your arguments (and a bit to Law's questions):

You know (from before this game even) that I abhor setup discussion early in a game. In the case of this particular game, town has no way to know who is the chosen, or who are the veto'ed people - so it seems to me that this discussion will contribute very little, if any, to the town - It will be nothing but guesswork and distractions.

My opinion is that its best for town to deal with this setup as if it were a 7:2 montanious game. The Chosen One is just a perk.


======

Will answer more questions later today.

[ekiM]

Unvote

. Blargh, this game just got a lot more complicated. I'll try to post on my lunchbreak, or after work if not then.

[ekiM]

If Albert is scum then he's sacrificing himself to take out Tajo, as he'll look very bad if Tajo flips town. I think a one-for-one trade goon for townie is not good for scum in this set-up. So there would have to be an extra motivating factor.

Tajo could be the Chosen one, leaving us on Day 3 with 4 townies vs a goon and maybe not much to go on. That could be favorable for scum. However this scenario requires that q21 was not vetoed by the scum before the game. Albert says he probably would've been. I can't judge this for myself, but unless someone disagrees with that assessment I'll work from the assumption that that is right. Which makes this scenario impossible.

Albert could be pushing a Tajo lynch to distract from one of the other wagons as we move towards deadline. However he's been voting Tajo and calling him scummy for a long time, and his first serious vote was for q21, so the timing isn't right for this scenario.

They could both be scum and Albert is bussing, hard? It's possible, but I don't think this is particularly likely.

So I'm inclined to think that Albert is town, because I don't see his motivation for doing this as scum. More later.

[Lawrencelot]

Strongly considering you to be scum with law, as I don't think law would have been veto'd.

How do you know I wouldn't be vetoed? And more importantly, how does that make me scum???

Tajo: ABR is not saying 'I'm so important', he's doing the opposite. He says he thinks he wouldn't be veto-ed, that means: he thinks that the scum thinks he's not that hard to lynch. You could both see this and saying 'I'm important, scum would veto me' as scummy behavior if you try hard, so I agree with Claus that discussion about that won't give us much result. Discussing about who we think would have been vetoed or not will only lead to wifom (I will use it in my own decisions though). But I do think that we should be more careful with who we are lynching, and if we have more options take the chosen mechanic into account.

[hp [leaves]]

populartajo is infinitely more useful to the town than hp, even if he was scum.

Do I need to tell what's wrong here?

[hp [leaves]]

They could both be scum and Albert is bussing, hard?

This is what I am thinking.

[populartajo]

I extend this question to everyone in this game.

Would you vote or would not vote someone that a)asks for your lynch for no reason at all (and push it hard for weak reasons) and b)asks you to vote him.

What would you have done if you were me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Don't listen to the scumbag! Lynch him before deadline!

[populartajo]

Unvote

. Blargh, this game just got a lot more complicated. I'll try to post on my lunchbreak, or after work if not then.

Mike why did you unvote?

[populartajo]

Tajo: ABR is not saying 'I'm so important', he's doing the opposite. He says he thinks he wouldn't be veto-ed, that means: he thinks that the scum thinks he's not that hard to lynch.

I disagree.

Speculation and making assumptions in a WIFOM thing as who would be vetod and why is weak and its in no way a reason to ask for someone lynch.

[populartajo]

populartajo is infinitely more useful to the town than hp, even if he was scum.

Do I need to tell what's wrong here?

No. You are voting him, right?
Hp, where are your opinions on others?

[populartajo]

Don't listen to the scumbag! Lynch him before deadline!

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[ekiM]

there is about a one in three chances that I am the chosen one

I'm saying that he would not be selected to be one of the three candidates.

Just to make sure we're clear: scum got 3 vetoes, and the chosen one was randomly selected from a pool of the 4 townies that they did not veto.

No-lynch isn't extremely bad in this game, but tajo is the best candidate for lynch atm.

I dunno, at this stage at least I think it's pretty bad. Unless we're going to count on being able to out-WIFOM the scum, our situation tomorrow won't be improved by NL.

I'm pretty sure that these players would never be veto'd: Lawrencelot, myself, AceMarksman and springlullaby.

Now on to the favorites: Claus is a hard player to lynch by his own admission, and so is q21. Nuwen you have done very well for yourself in War in Heaven mafia. These three are likely to be veto'd. I know ekiM is a relative unknown.

I know I'm the newest player by far, so I don't see why I would draw a veto, either..

Yes I could, but I just decided you're not the one I want to see lynched, so I'm not gonna bother (it's just the quotes of the post where I voted you).

I'm all up for a hp lynch now. Posts 185 and 187 seem extremely scummy to me, and I was only giving him the benefit of the doubt because I thought he would be more useful after having (re)read everything. Which didn't happen. ABR also still failed to explain his vote on tajo, and populartajo is infinitely more useful to the town than hp, even if he was scum. Unvote: populartajo; Vote: hp; FOS: ABR.

Albert explained his vote.

How can tajo-scum be more useful than hp-town?

I believe that the best way to start this game off is to lynch the players who were likely veto'd by the mafia, to keep our secret lynchee alive.

Huge FoS:ABR

You want us to lynch the strongest players here? I don't think so. Strongly considering you to be scum with law, as I don't think law would have been veto'd.

Don't like this at all. You're really strawmanning him here.

Here's what I think happened here. First, I think law and ABR are scum together. Second, to avoid them getting lynched, ABR put together a "do not lynch" list including the two scum and two townies. Third, there isn't a third.

My thoughts are, how will Albert-Law scumteam benefit if Tajo flips town?

They could both be scum and Albert is bussing, hard?

This is what I am thinking.

Why?

Unvote

. Blargh, this game just got a lot more complicated. I'll try to post on my lunchbreak, or after work if not then.

Mike why did you unvote?

Cause I was unsure in my vote and didn't have time to do full read and think. Still don't actually, off to poolhall now. Hopefully more before bed.

Why are you voting Albert? Do you think he is scum? What is his motivation?

[populartajo]

Mike the answer of my vote relies on this question.

I extend this question to everyone in this game.

Would you vote or would not vote someone that a)asks for your lynch for no reason at all (and push it hard for weak reasons) and b)asks you to vote him.

What would you have done if you were me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's such a stupid question. You're just voting who you think is the biggest threat to you in the game, scumtajo.