Newbie 783 - Mongol Mafia - Game Over

[purple princess]

PP furpants asked you a question.

So I see, well I guess he can read through my previous posts to see why I voted, I'm sure he has already, as he has voted for me.

[Furpants_Tom]

Sure have. But I'm asking you to go over it again, because it's a few days later, and I'd like to see how you view it now.

[purple princess]

Right as for my vote I clearly belive I made the wrong decision, and I don't enough evidence to back it up, so for that reason I'm gonna unvote Pablo.
Yeah I know this is gonna look really scummy now, but hey I guess it cannot get any worse than it has already. Besides, I am a big girl, I can take it!

Fair enough Furpants_Tom re my last post I have unvoted Pablo, so that's my veiw on it.

[Kublai Khan]

End of Day Wednesday May 13th 2009 Votecount

Shadeaux - 3 - Pablo Molinero, penguana, ekiM

purple princess - 3 - ivanavich, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Furpants_Tom

Jarmo - 1 - Shadeaux

Pablo Molinero
penguana
ekiM
BlyndSikick
Debonair Danny DiPietro
ivanavich

Not Voting: Jarmo, purple princess

With 9 players, it takes 5 to Lynch.

[Furpants_Tom]

Just out of curiousity;

When's the deadline, oh great and powerful Khan?

(This humble worm beseeches your mercy...)

Deadline (Eastern; GMT - 4)

May 25th, 2009 11:59pm

[Kublai Khan]

End of Day Thursday May 14th 2009 Votecount

Shadeaux - 3 - Pablo Molinero, penguana, ekiM

purple princess - 3 - ivanavich, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Furpants_Tom

Jarmo - 1 - Shadeaux

Pablo Molinero
penguana
ekiM
BlyndSikick
Debonair Danny DiPietro
ivanavich

Not Voting: Jarmo, purple princess

With 9 players, it takes 5 to Lynch.

Note: Quiet day. Nobody getting prodded yet, but tomorrow is a different story. (Hint, Hint)

[Pablo Molinero]

unvote, vote: purple princess

L-1, folks

Your apathy has given us nothing. While you've 'owned up' to your mistake, you stopped short of what you need to do to make amends. Place a vote. Give us a target or you're the next best thing.

[purple princess]

Your right I haven't voted, I was waiting for a response from Penguana, but I guess he is busy again!

[Furpants_Tom]

While I could live with a purple princess lynch, I think; I do feel it's not exactly safe to leave penguana hangin' out in lurky-land. I know pp's jumped on this idea, probably in part to save her life; but it's a fair point - is there a particular reason to target talkative and suspicious types over silent and suspicious ones?

Also, it pays to re-read the thread carefully. If I hadn't, I never would have noticed:

I think furpants_tom has a dumb name and is pro-town so far.

Response: Well you have a dumb face, and I'm pro-your mum so far! Dumbface! You smell like feet and one of your parents was a goat!

Just thought I'd bring the conversational tone up a little.

[ivanavich]

If I had to vote for either lurking suspicious and talkative suspicious I would go with lurky. But I feel this is not the case between PurplePrincess and Penguana. if it would just have been bad play it would be one thing. But when you change your reasons for voting it outweighs any suspicion I have for the lurker suspect.

[Pablo Molinero]

I'd be up for a lurker lynch. How does the town feel about bumping off the unproductive/hiding scum?

[Shadeaux]

I haven't been keeping up too much with the grilling of PP, but:

Pablo:

Yeah, but you shouldn't be one to say "oh well" and 'take one for the team' unless you're really convinced you're setting the scum up for the fall. Otherwise you're just putting the town one kill loser to a loss. Town wins whether lynched or not, sure, but forging your own destiny is the fun of the game. I am inherently wary of martyr attitudes.

This may be frowned upon, but having a defeatist mentality is typically a townie behavior? Even if it's potentially a mafia mind trick, I would imagine it to be a risky one..

I'm not sure about her changing of votes/lynching reasons, it can really be seen in any light -- but it's still pretty early in the game, suspicion levels are bound to change drastically.

[purple princess]

Hmmm, well I can see that it looks like I am going to be the first one lynched. I can't really deffend myself to stop this happening.
Would just like to say that both Jarmo and Penguana don't really seem to be adding anything to this game, are they being quiet to avoid suspicion?

[Jarmo]

Hmmm, well I can see that it looks like I am going to be the first one lynched. I can't really deffend myself to stop this happening.
Would just like to say that both Jarmo and Penguana don't really seem to be adding anything to this game, are they being quiet to avoid suspicion?

No, I've just been busy. In fact, I'm going to have to back out of my spot to give it up to a reserve, as I apparently just don't have the time I thought I was going to have to really take part and be a good member of this mafia game. I apologize for that.

I will, though, leave with a few parting words. I still maintain my two FoS picks, Shadeaux and Purple Princess. However, if I were to vote right now, I would vote Penguana. A quick jump with Pablo to vote for Shadeaux without a lot of explanation, as well as the lurking, makes me feel as though he is trying to keep himself as far out of the game as possible, while lining up with one of the more innocent feeling players in the game so far.

Again, I apologize for dropping out, I feel I am a detriment to the game by being so inactive. Good luck everyone!

[Furpants_Tom]

Well, let's get Penguana to L-2 then. Put him under a bit of pressure, and see what comes of it. We can switch back to PP if necessary later.

Unvote
Vote: Penguana
FoS: purple princess

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Opposed, what penguana needs is a prod from the mod to make sure he's still interested in playing, not votes. It's not like we've got a player who drifting in occasionally and supplying no content in their posts which would be an obvious attempt to avoid helping the town where some votes would pressure them into contributing. We've got a player who has gone missing for the last four days, I don't see voting for him and letting other people off the hot seat helping the town.

[Kublai Khan]

End of Day Friday May 15th 2009 Votecount

purple princess - 3 - ivanavich, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Pablo Molinero

Shadeaux - 2 - penguana, ekiM

Jarmo - 1 - Shadeaux
penguana - 1 - Furpants_Tom

Pablo Molinero
ekiM
BlyndSikick
Debonair Danny DiPietro
ivanavich

Not Voting: Jarmo, purple princess

With 9 players, it takes 5 to Lynch.

Note: Looking for a replacement for Jarmo. ekiM & penguana have been prodded. They have 48 hours to post or be replaced. This is penguana's second prod. Three prods and you're out.

[Furpants_Tom]

Well, maybe. But we've got some time to play with here, I'm not keen to leave someone on L-1 when there are other players who need questioning. Purple Princess isn't giving us much, despite the pressure; so I'm not sure where the payoff is in continuing to apply it.

[Kublai Khan]

Iecerint replaces Jarmo effective immediately.

[Iecerint]

Hi guys. I just finished reading through once, but I haven't gotten my role PM yet. I'll read through again once I have that piece of information.

Pesky details.. I'm old sick and dying, damnit. Cut me some slack.

[Iecerint]

OK, here I go --

The two players I get the most pro-town vibes from at the moment are FT and Pablo:

- I like FT because I doubt that a newbie mafia member would advocate NoLynch on Day 1. The intuitive thing to do as a mafia player is to do the opposite. (Granted, thinking about this from a "third person"'s perspective suggests that lynching is in the town's best interests.) Here's a summary of my thinking on this:

Newbie town = Don't lynch! We'll probably mess up! At best, follow others' conjecture!
Newbie scum = Lynch someone! But never one of us!
Expert town = Approaches default forum play.
Expert scum = Approaches default forum play.

The only category that fits FT's predecessor is newbie town.

The possibility that FT's predecessor was secretly an expert player without an avatar (maybe on an alt? I don't know if that's part of the culture on these forums) who was banking on a lack of expert players to call him out and a lot of newbie players to jump on the NoLynch bandwagon seems remote to me.

The only contradiction here is that FT's predecessor both claimed to have only played 3 times total and to have played large games on debate.org. This seems a little sketchy. My guess is that he just got defensive and mentioned the other online play to save face.

- Honestly, I like Pablo because of his calling out Shadeaux's taking my predecessor to L-1, even though he (read: I) was the first bandwagon of the Day. It seems like rushing someone through to lynch quickly might be a scum strategy, especially if their first thought is (as above) "Lynch someone who's not one of us!" rather than the equally-important "Don't seem too scummy while you do it!" This may inadvertently be like a reverse-OMGUS or something, but I still think it's one of the few well-motivated bandwagon-starters of the night. (Not that many bandwagons SHOULD necessarily be well-motivated on Day 1.)

The only caveat here is that, frankly, I used to think Jarmo might be scum before I got my role PM. (That's why I didn't post much the first time -- I thought I'd have to figure out how to reconcile his FT-predecessor attack with FT's relatively-clear innocence. I probably would've said, as I believe others have, that it was really just a glorified random vote.) Because of that, Shadeaux's bumping me to L-1 maybe isn't

quite

as damning as it might otherwise be (but it's still pretty suspect). Because of that, Pablo's "heroism" is diluted just as much (which, similarly, is not too much).

- princess's apparent scumminess in thereafter attacking Pablo is similarly slightly diluted (IMO). maybe she was just getting the same anti-Jarmo vibes that I was getting (prior to seeing my PM, etc.) That said, L-1 on the first wagon seemed awfully quick.

I'm going to finish by doing (officially) what my predecessor recommended. I agree with FT's suggestion that we encourage penguana (or whoever replaces him) to participate and explain in more detail his views of who's scum. For this reason, I

Vote: penguana

. (Let's keep him away from L-1, though, for the time being!)

Princess, it's good that you're thinking about the game globally rather than locally. It's about the town winning, not individuals surviving. That said, it's imperative that you provide us with as much information as you can about your ideas about who's scum and why. That way, if you die and turn up Townie (whether by lynch or NK), the remaining Townies are in a better position to use your clearly well-intentioned views to root out the scum (and secure you the win!).

Until then,

FoS: princess, Shadeaux

I disagree somewhat with DDD's objection. I don't believe that DDD's behavior is necessarily anti-town (I agree that we need to hear more from princess), but I think she may respond better to encouragement than anything else. I still think it's possible that she was picking up on Jarmo-scum-vibes and overreacted to Pablo's very reasonable suspicion of Shadeaux.

I'm also a little put-off by ivan's shorter posts. Could you let us know more about your feelings about the various players? IGMEOY.

tl;dr --

TOWN
Pablo
eKIM
FT
me

SUSPECT
Shadeaux
princess
ivan
penguana

NEUTRAL
DDD

NB -- Sorry it's so long. I'll try to quote more in the future, as I'll presumably not need to quote from so many pages. For that matter, is there an easy way to do that? Newbie question.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Erm, to clarify, the reason the possibility seems remote to me is that Pablo and DDD had already implied that they were good, active players.

[ekiM]

Did Shadeaux ever explain why he "gambled" that he could "trap" a newbie scum into quicklynching, and why this wasn't a disaster waiting to happen? Sorry, this guy is still reeking.

I have no idea why Icerint has a pro-town read on FT.

Pablo - why are you voting PP then suggesting a lurker lynch?

Mod: Penguana?

Everyone else: DDD is right; voting someone who just isn't here does nothing.

[Furpants_Tom]

Icerint's read on me seems to have more to do with the guy I replaced, BlyndSikick. Shadeaux's play was dumb, but I think his reaction was dumber; and worse play for scum than for town. I'm not clearing him; but I'm not keen to focus in on him on the basis of that.

OK, if Penguana is genuinely MIA, we should choose someone else to pick on for a while. Anyone you'd suggest, or do you just want to keep at Shadeaux?

[ekiM]

I'd like a proper explanation from him. I actually found the last thing he said on the subject quite scummy:

Sure you can toss the two options around all day. Do YOU think a townie would've quick-lynched Jarmo? Or a scum would've been more likely? I gambled the latter. But I'm beating a dead horse now.

That's scarcely a good explanation, and he makes like we have to move on, there's no point discussing this. I don't buy it and vote him, and he hasn't responded to that at all. I wonder why?

Also, ivan's "let's not talk about Shadeaux, let's talk about PP" thing was.. well.