Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[Korts]

I'm willing to lynch either Green Crayons or Patrick.

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Page 38 Votecount

charter (0/4):
Green Crayons(1/4): Incognito
Incognito (0/4):
Korts (0/4):
Patrick (0/4):
Xdaamno (0/4):

Not voting (5/6):

charter, Green Crayons, Patrick, Xdaamno, Korts

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
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Countdown To Deadline

[Patrick]

I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is Ether's buddy. Patrick is my next choice for scum. I think it's unlikely that he is scum with Ether/Xdaamo however. He really hasn't said much today I don't think. I will go back and review Patrick and make a case if it is merited.

I've said more than you, both today and in previous days. The only thing I haven't yet done is decide on someone I'm happy lynching, mostly because any scum pairing I can think of has something weird about it, and so does the idea that we only have 1 mafia and 1 SK left, for balance reasons.

[charter]

I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is Ether's buddy. Patrick is my next choice for scum. I think it's unlikely that he is scum with Ether/Xdaamo however. He really hasn't said much today I don't think. I will go back and review Patrick and make a case if it is merited.

I've said more than you, both today and in previous days. The only thing I haven't yet done is decide on someone I'm happy lynching, mostly because any scum pairing I can think of has something weird about it, and so does the idea that we only have 1 mafia and 1 SK left, for balance reasons.

This isn't a contest. Also, the fact that you can't come up with a scum theory that makes sense means you're probably scum so you can't present one that adds up with you not in it. I can't decide between all the theories which one I think is right.

[Patrick]

This isn't a contest.

Shrug, what you said about me is untrue. Don't be surprised if I point out that you've added relatively little to the game.

I didn't say that I can't come up with a theory that makes sense, I said that each of them has something weird to it. It happens pretty often.

[Green Crayons]

So, am I right in assuming we're boiling this down into we each have to determine if we believe this is a mafia/sk or a mafia/mafia setup?

If this is mafia/sk, we should lynch X.
If this is mafia/mafia, we should lynch incog, patrick, gc or korts (all names that have been thrown around). We should not lynch X.

charter is the only one who is consistently being held off of suspicion lists. Not quite sure why Patrick felt the need to throw in that zinger towards charter.

[Korts]

I don't really like GC's suspicion list in the mafia/mafia scenario. Patrick and GC have been mentioned by almost everyone as a lynch candidate. Incog and Korts, on the other hand, have only been cast real suspicion upon by Patrick and GC, the two players I suspect to be "blue" mafia together in a mafia/mafia scenario.

[Incognito]

Green Crayons is acting like he just had an epiphany when this is something I've been talking about all this time (yay! I'm voting him already!).

And Patrick looks like mafia-scum who feels trapped by role claims/obv-townies.

How about we lynch one of GC or Patrick and call it a day?

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons is acting like he just had an epiphany when this is something I've been talking about all this time (yay! I'm voting him already!).

Are you seriously painting the near entirety of my posts today - which have dealt with our game setup - as if they weren't dealing with our game setup? The (semi-rhetorical) question wasn't an "epiphany," it was an inquiry if anyone else wanted to add anything to narrow our choices. Way to go and just make crap up about my behavior.

[charter]

I didn't say that I can't come up with a theory that makes sense, I said that each of them has something weird to it. It happens pretty often.

I would like to hear some of your theories and what you think is wierd with each, if you don't mind.

[Incognito]

Green Crayons: Up until Post 929, you seemed completely closed to the idea of a two-scum group set-up. That's why I said what I said.

[Incognito]

Mod:

Prod our resident social butterfly Xdaamno please?

[Green Crayons]

And I still think it's a completely incorrect assumption. That's why I said, "So, am I right in assuming we're boiling this down into

we each have to determine

if we believe this is a mafia/sk or a mafia/mafia setup?" As in, personal choice. As in, I believe mafia/sk setup, what about everyone else?

[vollkan]

Xdaamno has been prodded.

[Xdaamno]

Mod:

Prod our resident social butterfly Xdaamno please?

Been a bit busy this past week.

[Xdaamno]

Ether's post definately need more looking at. I'm surprised nobody else has done this in length.

[Xdaamno]

Out of habit, I'd like to point out posts such as these make it pretty clear I'm not likely to be scum:

Charter, you were in the second game Incognito linked to--what do you think of Xdaamno?

The "look at Xdaamno's posts [up to 253]" method: Canary town. That's it. There's a reason I asked Xdaamno and Izzy. I'm assuming from the fact that Xdaamno's keeping his Patvote here without any update on his view of him that he is not in fact particularly suspicious of anyone else at this point. (Xdaamno has this pattern of getting into theory arguments without commenting on his reads of players. Urgh.)

I have stopped reading the Xdaamno/Canary spat. I'm interpreting Xdaamno's failure to have voted anyone else as him not actually finding anyone else scummy. Correct me if I'm wrong.

(For the record, Patrick's starting to feel better now, though I don't get why he interpretted my 76 as support.

I thought you were mildly supporting his reasons for voting me, have I somehow misread that?

That is what I was doing. Heh--looking back at your 85 I think

I

misread your interpretation. I'm not sure what you were getting at with "strange," looking closer. I agreed with OGML and

didn't

vote you for it.

I am eagerly awaiting Korts's catchup post.

[Xdaamno]

(the first two were cut out of longer posts)

[Xdaamno]

I've always had a bad feeling about Patrick, and a check of Ether's posts makes me think a scumpair is feasible:

Izzy's 250 bugs me, putting both me and Yosarian in her top three. The second part of her case on me is bullshit--I do not need her opinion to bandwagon people, thank you very much. I didn't get what Patrick saw in it at the time, either. (Epilogue: Incognito is stealing my lines.)

Assumes Patrick is in the right here.

Patrick, I worried about you very early on in i10, too, before moving on, even if I didn't say it out loud. There it was more anxiousness for you to post; here your posts on Page 1 actually bugged me a bit. I twitched at your apathetic acknowledgement of my Incogvote, and again at that vagueness with Skitzer in your 20. Yeah, I dismissed it, but it was there.

I'mma unvote; vote: Yosarian2. Filtering his posts, there's just not a lot there. And I hate the claim. (I don't think Incognito is scum. The Patrick/Yosarian connection is too blatant for my tastes as well.)

Patrick, what was weird about my agreement?

Direct speech on a peer-to-peer level, but looking back, she does this a few times to other people so null-tell.

I could flip to Xdaamno or Korts. I'm all for Xdaamno accepting Patrick's defense--except that he's still voting him. Which is it? (For the record, Patrick's starting to feel better now, though I don't get why he interpretted my 76 as support. After starting this aside with "for the record" I was half-tempted to load it with more qualifiers but I won't.)

Hmm... town tell for Patrick, I suppose.

I'll have a look at another suspect before placing a vote.

[Xdaamno]

Can I have a summary of charter's claim and reasons why people think it is true? I can't remember.

[Patrick]

I would like to hear some of your theories and what you think is wierd with each, if you don't mind.

Near the start of the day I said that I think Xdaamno is red mafia and that Korts is scum with either Incognito or GC. Incognito's posts today make me think he's probably town, but I can see GC/Korts. Their behaviour would make sense for it, and it's basically why I asked GC about why he's cleared Korts, since he seems very quick to write him off as town, especially since he's said Incognito is likely scum (therefore making his claimed result doubtful). The weirdness to this is that it means Korts would have to be scum with a secondary ability who targetted you last night, or Incognito would have to be an SK who made a fakeclaim (really not seeing that though). A Korts/Xdaamno pairing requires the same weirdness.

I don't see GC and Xdaamno being scum together based on their play all game.

The fact that each of those pairings has something odd has actually led me to consider it just being one mafiate and an SK left: in that case I would think Xdaamno is mafia and GC is the serial killer. My issue there is the balance of the game seems pretty ridiculous. I know Yos was a miller and that's a slight disadvantage, but it still seems like we have so much power in that scenario, and vollkan's previous game was much more balanced. GC and Xdaamno are both scum in most plausible scenarios I can think of so I'm thinking one of them should be lynched, with GC looking like the safer bet in case we do have 8-2-2 and Xdaamno is red.

Out of habit, I'd like to point out posts such as these make it pretty clear I'm not likely to be scum:

It seems like she states some suspicion of you but never actually voted you or tried to get you lynched. I don't see how that's in your favour.

One point of interest here:

Izzy's 250 bugs me, putting both me and Yosarian in her top three. The second part of her case on me is bullshit--I do not need her opinion to bandwagon people, thank you very much. I didn't get what Patrick saw in it at the time, either. (Epilogue: Incognito is stealing my lines.)

Assumes Patrick is in the right here.

It actually looks like the exact opposite to me, she's telling me she thinks I'm wrong, not assuming I'm right. How did you draw a connection from this?

[Green Crayons]

vote: xd

. Everyone agrees that he's scum with Ether.

Incog wants us to assume that it's a 2 mafia v 2 mafia v town setup because the mafia was given a title. Even though there are plenty of examples of games where the mafia is given a title and there isn't a second mafia group. He also tried to point to previous vollkan games that actually didn't help his point at all.

If Incog is right then we

do

need to lynch a non-Red mafia player. And contrary to what Patrick thinks, charter and Korts are pretty cleared in my book. So who would that leave? Incog, Patrick and me. I can't think of any reason that Incog wouldn't want to push the opposing mafia's lynch, so that leaves Patrick and I being scum team two together. Well, no sir. I'm not scum, and I'm most definitely not scum with Patrick. When you boil down the argument, this is why I'm so vehemently against it: the numbers just simply don't add up. And from this core position, Incog tried to add a whole bunch of random crap reasoning that didn't stand up to scrutiny. I welcome everyone to go back and read the beginning to today - we had a page or two of complete back and forth.



But. There's always a but.

What if Incog is lying? Not just wrong. If Incog is wrong and this is 2 mafia v. 1 sk, then we live to (potentially) fight another day. But if Incog is lying, what does that mean? That means Incog is scum with Xd and is attempting to push for a non-Red mafia lynch. SK, townie, whatever. It doesn't matter. If they end up lynching the SK, the game is theirs - and that's probably what they're trying to figure out. If they end up lynching a townie, then - oh well. They'll probably hit the SK during the night. It at least leaves them stronger than having a Xd lynch today.


I have no reason to believe that Incog's assumption is correct about the setup of this game. I haven't seen anything that is legitimate cause for me to actually think a two mafia setup is more than mere speculation, and the numbers just simply don't paint that picture for me. So Incog's suggestion is haphazard at best - it potentially knocks out a free mistake lynch out from under us because we didn't lynch the obvscum - and it's devious at best - it hands Red Team the game.

I'm voting Xd because he's scum. Counting the cleared players (Korts, charter) and the fact that if Incog was "Blue Mafia" he wouldn't have suggested an anti-Blue Mafia strategy, I know that I'm not scum with Patrick. I know he's incorrect in his assertion, and so I'm voting with what I know to be the safest play for the town.


Activity seems to be slumping, so I would like people to go ahead and make their decisions and we'll see where the chips fall. I grow weary of the loss of interest in this game.

[Xdaamno]

Izzy's 250 bugs me, putting both me and Yosarian in her top three. The second part of her case on me is bullshit--I do not need her opinion to bandwagon people, thank you very much. I didn't get what Patrick saw in it at the time, either. (Epilogue: Incognito is stealing my lines.)

Assumes Patrick is in the right here.

It actually looks like the exact opposite to me, she's telling me she thinks I'm wrong, not assuming I'm right. How did you draw a connection from this?

I still think it's pretty clear. She was assuming he did see something valuable, and was probing to find what it was.

[Patrick]

And contrary to what Patrick thinks, charter and Korts are pretty cleared in my book.

I think charter is pretty cleared as well. I don't imagine scum being given that ability.

I still think it's pretty clear. She was assuming he did see something valuable, and was probing to find what it was.

No she wasn't, since I'd already explained what I'd seen when questioned by Incognito. She even says "didn't get what he saw in it at the time", meaning she found my reaction strange at the time. Are you reading in context?

[charter]

I am thinking pretty much the same as GC. I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is scum, Patrick is looking like scum of some sort as well. Sorry Incog, but I'm not thinking two groups of mafia.

vote Xdaamo

[Xdaamno]

Can I have a summary of charter's claim and reasons why people think it is true? I can't remember.

still waiting on this