Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Mastermind of Sin]

fuzzylightning's computer died, hence his inactivity, but I agree he needs to be prodded.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR - in your post 368 you state that if too many Aes Sedai target a male channeler to gentle him, it wouldn't work. I don't recall anything in the books that supports this. Is there something in your role pm that supports this?

You are dense. I said there is a minimum number of AS needed to gentle a male channeler, and even if we reach that minimum the success of the gentling process is not guaranteed.

[Setael]

No. That's not what you said in the post I referred to.

There would be no way of coordinating a gentling convention, and it would either end up with an unsuccessful gentle because there weren't enough AS, or a waste because there were too many.

Care to rephrase?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Waste = AS gentling when they could have been using other powers.

[Setael]

gotcha. So...why did you choose to answer this one but ignore the questions about the Isaac quicktopic statement?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because some questions are just plain dumb. Anyone who opposes me is scummy.

[Benmage]

Well my questions got answered I'm going to go ahead and vote now. More information can be attained tomorrow.

Vote Mufasa

[Mufasa]

Get rid of ABR before it's too late.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ABR, please answer my question.

It is advisable to act as if the message wasn't there. Its obvious that the scum are producing it.

This discussion is unavailing. I believe Kairyuu is scum, and Kairyuu was at the river if we follow your logic. Let's hang him.

Vote Kairyuu

Are you confident enough to risk being lynched as a liar should Kairyuu come up town?

[SpyreX]

Sigh, trying to trap ABR in an actual lie isn't going to work because:

1.) If he is scum he sure as hell isn't going to risk screwing himself.
2.) If he is town, see #1.

Both of those statements are subjective in relation to what ABR thinks. They, by nature, can not be an objective lie.

[Mastermind of Sin]

SpyreX, Faraday, Kison, Benmage, armlx, Slicey, Mufasa, Setael/OGB all voted for Flay (in that order) AFTER I had been forced to reveal that I had information.

-SpyreX was helping test Flay's claim before that, but hadn't commented much one way or the other on Flay's scumminess.

-Faraday had been on the Flay wagon earlier, and made a very good post about the top suspects of the day.

FOS: Faraday, OozingGolfball

Any reason for this?

Ok well I've read up. I don't see a lot against JVW I mean he's not particularly townie but I can't see him as 99% scum like Albert says.

I think the case on Flay is a better one so I will

Vote: Mr. Flay

Other things of note:

Mufasa is pretty much useless. His meta supports this, he's claimed doc in an open game when vanilla before, and done numerous..questionable things so I'm not sure how easy it is to get a read on him. His play here is actually less erratic than some of his other games, one of which I'm talking about is ongoing.

Benmage's questions are certaintly odd, I do agree the pace seems to have dropped this game day though, for whatever reason. But doing stuff to "provoke reactions" or something isn't a good idea.

I continue to like MOS, and I think Kairyuu is probably town too due to his claim.

Slicey re: 1409: Is this the tar standard tell? If so he's said that untill one of the people has flipped it's not that useful, unless there's a mutual chainsaw defense going on.

So yeh kinda caught up now and all that, thank God.

This puts him in a pretty good light, I think.

-Kison was very ambiguous in regards to Mr. Flay, and made small statements of disbelieving his claim but didn't really act on it, parroting other people's ideas on how to test the role claim. He also finally placed his vote upon digging up a supposed contradiction that was actually rather weak, instead of all the other evidence we had.

-Benmage went one step further, placing his vote based on Kison's bad evidence and then unvoting when it was debunked, completely ignoring the real evidence against Mr. Flay. He also defended Flay at one point against Slicey's case, trying to deflect it by concluding that it wasn't enough to lynch someone. This post also sprang up as cause for concern:

You swear Flay to be scum. ABR is 99% sure jvw is scum... others wanna see Mufasa hung, who should we follow?

Honestly looking back at Flay, other than his odd continual tangent about Jester possibility his posts are generally pretty good, comprehensive and aren't simply one-liners, he isn't high on my 'scum-radar' yet. (I'm also not suggesting that good posting/contributing clears you from the possibility of scum, I just think there are much better cases out there than Flay.)

I don't like the defense of Flay, and I am also concerned by his lack of comment on JVW or Mufasa after the first statement, especially since Mufasa is also likely scum.

-armlx hasn't said much all game, and he did say Flay's claim was scummy, but he never commented on the case at all, and he simply voted Flay after I had confirmed him scum, adding nothing to the discussion.

-Setael/OGB did not say much at all before placing the hammer and later being replaced, but one post does give him a townie point:

You swear Flay to be scum. ABR is 99% sure jvw is scum... others wanna see Mufasa hung, who should we follow?

Honestly looking back at Flay, other than his odd continual tangent about Jester possibility his posts are generally pretty good, comprehensive and aren't simply one-liners, he isn't high on my 'scum-radar' yet. (I'm also not suggesting that good posting/contributing clears you from the possibility of scum, I just think there are much better cases out there than Flay.)

Do you have any other Flay defense besides his content? I've only seen him adequately respond to the attack on his jester discussion, and he hasn't addressed almost every other part of slicey's case.

Of these people, Benmage is the most likely scumpartner to Flay, followed by Kison, armlx, SpyreX, Setael, and then Faraday (who is very likely not scum with Flay at all). This analysis would be more conclusive if combined with an analysis of their Fabian/Mufasa interactions. Something similar should also be done for people who stayed off the Flay wagon altogether.

[Setael]

Personally, I think ABR has already been caught in a lie. He's now refusing to discuss it - with good reason if he's Black Ajah.

A lot of things people say wouldn't be regarded as lies if they are saying something based on limited knowledge. However, when ABR stated that 2 players were talking outside of the thread, one of whom turned out to be an SK, that appears to be a bold-faced lie. He has not provided any kind of excuse or reasoning and anything I can come up with (like... he was joking?) would not fly for an Aes Sedai. He made a statement as fact. As far as I or anyone here knows, there is no way that statement can be true. If that is the case, he is either Black Ajah or he lied about being Aes Sedai in the first place.

[Sajin]

I am back from my V/LA.

@MoS- I think it will be smart to start doing this: I will be sleeping at Blacksmith this twilight. Stables will likely be covered as well. Without saying too much more I hope you understand what I am getting at. I don't want you to claim location but doubling up unnecessarily is pointless. Is this agreeable?

[SpyreX]

I can dig benmage as a partner + independantly being scummy.

Again, follow me:

If ABR thought they were talking out of thread it wasn't a lie.

The only things ABR could, in fact, lie about would be things in his PM (or outrageously stupid things)

[Benmage]

I was hesitant on Flay. I’ve still been actively scumhunting. People keep talking about all the evidence had on Flay. I read Slicey’s questioning and gave a response. I didn’t find the arguments over compelling. I’ve answered and questioned several people, and don’t find anyone 100% town. Although I’d be willing to bet MoS and Kairyuu are.

@MoS isn’t Mufasa gonna flip neutral third party, i.e. not scum…could be another lie I guess we will see.

As far as the pressure on me, I am not worried. Tomorrow I can claim if need be.

@ABR who did you roleblock yesterday?

[Setael]

@spyrex - unless he's black ajah, in which case he can lie all he wants. You follow me?

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, please answer my question.

It is advisable to act as if the message wasn't there. Its obvious that the scum are producing it.

This discussion is unavailing. I believe Kairyuu is scum, and Kairyuu was at the river if we follow your logic. Let's hang him.

Vote Kairyuu

Are you confident enough to risk being lynched as a liar should Kairyuu come up town?

No.

[SpyreX]

@spyrex - unless he's black ajah, in which case he can lie all he wants. You follow me?

.. yea, but its moot.

Trying to catch him in a lie on grounds that are subjective isn't going to work. Concrete evidence is all there's gonna be.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ABR, please answer my question.

It is advisable to act as if the message wasn't there. Its obvious that the scum are producing it.

This discussion is unavailing. I believe Kairyuu is scum, and Kairyuu was at the river if we follow your logic. Let's hang him.

Vote Kairyuu

Are you confident enough to risk being lynched as a liar should Kairyuu come up town?

No.

Then why did you make such definitive statements as Aes Sedai? Saying that it is obvious scum are producing the note leaves you no way out, as you are stating it to be fact. So far, the note has led to two lynches of non-town players, has it not?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I changed my mind. He was obvious scum, then with new information on JVW, he became less suspect and JVW and Setael moved up the scummy list.

[Setael]

I disagree. What he said was that he "noticed" Isaac was talking in a quicktopic thread, not that he "thought" he was. To say "I noticed this happened," you are stating it as fact and if it's not true it is a lie. It would only be subjective if he said "thought" instead of "noticed".

[SpyreX]

Evidence plox

[Benmage]

Set raises some points to note.

[Faraday]

Has every one location claimed? if so can we hang this guy.

[Sajin]

We are waiting on MBL and fuzzy I think.