Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[vollkan]

The role PMs can be found at this address

The night choices can be found at this address

As for the setup, I was actually laughing out loud when I read all the discussion about the setup possibly just being one to screw with your mind - because that was my intention in putting this setup together.

3 investigative roles, the efficacy of which was compromised by the presence of an undertaker. A GF and miller without a cop. And tricky flavour with the whole "Red Mafia" thing.

I'm very curious as to people's thoughts on the SK-Undertaker combination. I came up with it after reading the "How to Make a SK stronger" thread, and my hope was that it would make SK a little bit more winnable as a role (seeing as it is a very hard role to play).

[Ether]

I hated absolutely everything about this setup, and winning doesn't change my view.

(Don't understand the point of having the serial killer mess up watcher results in a way that doesn't actually frame a guilty. I guess it would confuse the watcher a bit. But that still doesn't actually prevent a watcher from getting a result on it that's as good as guilty; it just gives it a bit of space to argue if it's already managed to land a hit on some previous night. Big deal. Nightkill immunity might be cliché, but it's much more useful. Investigative immunity or a roleblock or two would fit in between. And not having a serial killer is an even better solution!)

It is pretty cool that no one got replaced. And I do think it's funny that a Patrick/Ether scumgroup just won in a semi-invitational.

[Green Crayons]

I had convinced myself it was Ether, Xd and then either Incog or Korts. Was leaning towards Incog because he was pushing the two mafia scenario, and of course only a third mafioso would do that. ...Never mind the fact that Patrick agreed with it. Bah.

I was tempted to out myself prior to my lynch and bargain my way out for just one more night, but then grew weary of the game. I spent all my "I really care about this game" energy in the earlier part of that day.

I killed camn because she voiced suspicions against Xd (make Xd look suspicious) and because she was looking pretty town. I killed Yos because he was becoming abundantly town in my eyes and I wanted to knock off a pretty much cleared town. Should've killed Incog, dammit. You would think I would have learned my lesson.


For the record, I started this game thinking the undertaker role was worthless. Now knowing the whole set-up, I still think it was pretty worthless. With that many investigative roles, I would have given the SK investigative immunity and one of the scum the undertaker ability. Other than that... meh. It was a SK role. I enjoyed the game.

[charter]

Lame. Good job Patrick.

[OhGodMyLife]

Damn. I was right about Patrick. *sigh*

[OhGodMyLife]

Also, Ether, stop being such a whiner.

[Yosarian2]

Good game, everyone. I guess this was the wrong game to test the "millers should always claim" theory.

[Korts]

Good job, Patrick. I had a sneaking suspicion that Xdaamno was innocent, but I never could've proven you guilty.

[Patrick]

I think the setup is too busy. It seems to put the emphasis more on claims, outguessing the mod and nightgames than traditional scumhunting. The setup also seems very harsh on the SK; I'd definitely buff it with some kind of unightkillability.

I think I managed to play alot closer to my town self than I have as scum in the past, helped immensely by the fact that I had some genuine suspicions throughout the game, and that all my genuine suspicions were wrong, which helped avoid a nightkill. I really did think charter was scum on day 1, long before I switched my vote to him, and I was very suspicious of skitzer as well, but I kept holding back my thoughts in case I was right and it got me nightkilled. On day 3 I pretty much lost all hope and was mainly trying to think up ways I might be able to cut a deal with the other scum faction to make a tie. I started off the day thinking it would be another mafia and gradually moved towards thinking it was an SK (which I expected to be unightkillable). I didn't even strongly think GC was scum when I hammered him, but I just thought I'd look scummy and risk being lynched myself if I tried to move it towards Xdaamno. I also had in the back of my mind that if GC was a serial killer, I'd have a chance of winning (yay). Even on night 3, I worried that Incognito might have the ability to self-watch and that he'd catch me in the act.

I went with the no-kill strategy because Korts had made up his mind on Xdaamno and I wanted to keep him around; I wasn't entirely sure whether charter would side with me in an endgame. I expected the town would go for a lynch once vollkan announced that a no-lynch would allow scum to take a draw.

Thanks to all for the game. I found it terrifying pretty much the whole way.

[Incognito]

Well done, Patrick. >=( Did you feel any remorse when you killed me?

I enjoyed this game while I was alive. I thought some of the scariest moments of the game for me were when Yosarian2 claimed Miller -- given the fact that OGML seemed to be soft-claiming investigative and then of course knowing MY own role to be investigative, I found myself thinking that Yosarian2 could be scum fake-claiming Miller after he attempted to outguess the mod wrongly. It was a real tight-rope though; I didn't want to make it obvious that I was investigative, so I tried to oppose him using other routes (like the MD discussion thread). Then I began thinking that maybe this set-up is just screwier than I thought. Little did I know it would only get screwier and screwier.

Watching OGML during N1 was an obvious choice for me -- the soft-claim seemed town-ish and at that time, I was actually thinking that the set-up might closely resemble the Vollville set-up in that I thought that OGML was a tracker, and I of course knew I was a watcher and there was a tracker/watcher combo in that game too. I was surprised to see both camn AND OGML flip investigative. On Day 2, I was even more worried that my quick flip on Ether would make it extremely obvious that I was investigative of some kind, so I kind of expected to get NK-ed come Night 2. I was quite surprised when that didn't happen after all.

By the way, I really WAS buying Ether as town during Day 1. The blitz on me and the fact that a few of her thoughts seemed to be mirroring mine made me think that, and I didn't bother questioning my read even in the face of new evidence (dumb of me at the time, I know). During Day 2, I was actually half-expecting Ether to COUNTERCLAIM Korts with some kind of protective role, and I began reasoning with myself that maybe Ether is some kind of Quack Doctor (because she seemed fixated on Korts during Day 2) and maybe THAT's how I watched Ether target OGML during Night 1 for his death!!! The set-up looked so screwy from my perspective that I was half-expecting anything and even

that

didn't seem too far-fetched haha.

I think this set-up is EXTREMELY swingy. I don't see the average town doing anywhere NEARLY as well as this town did here (and yes I'm saying this even though we lost). I think the average town would have totally lynched Yos2 for claiming Miller the way he did, they probably would have lynched me or one of the other investigatives because of the "no doubles" meta (let alone TRIPLES), and would have just self-destructed in the long run. And a worst case scenario of allowing the town only one mislynch just doesn't seem very fair to me. Cross-kills must have been scary for the mafia and SK too. Either scum faction could have easily lost very early on if lynched or NK-ed, especially given the amount of town power. And I don't think the SK ever stood a chance of winning this game even with the Undertaker ability. Otherwise, good modding, vollkan.

[Patrick]

Well done, Patrick. >=( Did you feel any remorse when you killed me?

=(

[Patrick]

I'm not surprised at all that OMGL checked me. This even looks like a breadcrumb of sorts.

[Xdaamno]

Well played, Patrick.

[Xdaamno]

I think I could have done a lot better. I'm proud of my fake flip-out on GC, though was kinda bummed nobody suspected it might not be real

[Patrick]

Flip out as in, fake change of heart? Did you think he was town the entire game or scum the entire game?

[Xdaamno]

Sorry guys! I know I suck at looking town. I'll enjoy watching this game afterwards, but I regret actually joining it.

GC, I know I can come across as an asshole sometimes, but you've taken it way to far and it's hurting my enjoyment of the game. I hope I don't have to play with you again.

Vote: Xdaamno

Before somebody hammers, I want to do a long analysis. I'll start making notes.

I meant this, which saved me from being lynched.

[Incognito]

Sorry guys! I know I suck at looking town. I'll enjoy watching this game afterwards, but I regret actually joining it.

GC, I know I can come across as an asshole sometimes, but you've taken it way to far and it's hurting my enjoyment of the game. I hope I don't have to play with you again.

Vote: Xdaamno

Before somebody hammers, I want to do a long analysis. I'll start making notes.

I meant this, which saved me from being lynched.

Yeah, that and your high post-count were like the only things that made me lean town-ish on you at certain points of the game. Sometimes I figure if a person can post more than

me

of all people in a game, that person might be town, heh. It would have been a close call for me deciding between Patrick and Xdaamno if I was there instead of Korts. Xdaamno made sense as Ether's partner due to interactions but not as much sense to me looking at individual play. Patrick played a good game, but I always did have slight lingering suspicion of him because his play here did look different than I'm used to. It was just never enough suspicion to actually push a lynch for though until maybe endgame, and I don't know if I would have made the correct decision.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm not surprised at all that OMGL checked me. This even looks like a breadcrumb of sorts.

It was.

[Incognito]

Oh and ftr, I couldn't self-watch. I also asked vollkan that if I watched a hypo-bodyguard and he protected someone who was targeted for a kill, would I learn who targeted that person for the kill even though they didn't target Korts directly and he said no to that too. =(

[Yosarian2]

I think the average town would have totally lynched Yos2 for claiming Miller the way he did

Well, I still think that in general, if you're a miller, claiming miller before the end of day 1 is probably a good idea most of the time. Obviously not if there's not a cop though, heh.

I do feel bad that my miller claim ended up outing OGML. I also wish I had gotten a better read on Patrick, although I did warn you guys that I can't read him and he always looks pro-town to me.

[skitzer]

Awesome game.

[OhGodMyLife]

Yos, the timing of your claim was really sloppy. I get the feeling you just did it on a whim there. I stand by my statement during the game of (something along the lines of) claim miller in your first post or don't claim at all.

I probably shouldn't have pushed the issue so hard but I really got hoodwinked by the setup. Even in my darkest, most bastardly dreams I never imagined a setup with three non-cop investigative roles and a miller. Genius.

[Elmo]

And I do think it's funny that a Patrick/Ether scumgroup just won in a semi-invitational.

I told you so.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, the timing of your claim was really sloppy. I get the feeling you just did it on a whim there. I stand by my statement during the game of (something along the lines of) claim miller in your first post or don't claim at all.

Why? I still don't see how doing it at the start of day 1 is more pro-town then doing it partway through day 1, other then some vauge "because that's how it's done" convention.

If you're going to claim miller you should do so before the END of day 1, certanly, so you don't get cop investigated. And you don't want to do it in response to pressure.

I don't think the START of day 1 is the best time to do it either, though; if you do it right on the start of day 1, then of course you are going to be voted for it, because town has nothing else to go on other then your miller claim. Seems like it's better to do it partway through the day, otherwise the entire day is likely to be wasted on a "what do we do with the miller" conversation.

[Patrick]

I was quite surprised by the amount of hatred you picked up for the claim, as it looked like a protown move to me. I think as a miller I'd personally just keep it to myself and play normally and hope to get nightkilled. My rising suspicion of you day 2 was faked to try and provide an alternative to Ether; at that point I knew a red herring wasn't unlikely since my own perk was a similar red herring.