LONG PAGE!
This'll be FUN!
The Mod wrote:Corrected Mastin's vote in vote counts 3 through 14. This is why you shouldn't put a vote in the middle of a gigantic wall of text.
Sorry, sorry, sorry. I didn't know that post was so long when I wrote it; I thought the vote would be near the end of the post. Silly Mastin.
SC wrote:Page 22 and heading for the summit. No oxygen, no supplies, eyes fighting against me, brain shutting down, time running out, but dammit I will watch the sunrise from the top of page 28...
(bottom would be more accurate literally but it doesn't go with the mountain climbing metaphor. Poetic licence and all)
Lol. You really
bored, aren't you?
VP wrote:It is indeed a ridiculous stretch.
I point out the possibility. I admit that it's doubtful, but would you rather have me ignore a potential scumslip?
You're complaining about me not doing enough scum hunting; comments such as that one are how I do mine.
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about in your posts.
No, it's not--you're talking about fluff.
This wasn't fluff.
Why even mention it when you should well know that it means nothing?
I mentioned it because it was a possible scumslip.
What more do I need?
Why not attack him over having like two posts all game and saying absolutely nothing, that makes much more sense.
Because, in a game of this size and with as active posters as we have here, that level of activity is nothing to be suspicious of.
Also, do you really consider things like this scumhunting?
How is pointing out a possible scumslip NOT scum hunting?
You were the one rolefishing in the first place.
I was trying to bait Kublai Khan, someone who had already claimed, into revealing something which would make his claim obviously fake (too much flavor, too little, inconsistent flavor, etc). I have explained that I refuse to elaborate on if he got it correct, because it'd be anti-town to do so.
You asked why Kublai Khan did not include a bunch of flavor things in his miller claim. Did you not?
I was scum hunting, with a trap for possible scum.
I'm going to break down the jist of what happened with the miller claim since you guys seem to be losing focus because of it.
I have a strong distaste for summaries such as this:
They only convey part of the message.
They seem to cut out vital details and overlook key facts.
I much prefer elaborating, going over it all, and then giving a summary of the points later on as best as I can, but even then, it's clear that I don't get the entire message across in my summaries.
(On a side-note, it's a scum tell to quote the summaries I make and use the summary as the entire logic behind the statement/conclusion from it when the entire argument does it better than the summary, in my opinion.)
-You guys begin to press him about the miller claim for some reason and he says he's a "regular Emerald miller". So, he included his flavor along with his role this time.
Emerald isn't flavor--
If I see people fail to state they're an "Emerald *role*" when they claim, they're scum. Look at the bodies we have--
Emerald Townie.
Emerald Jailkeeper.
Cerulean Doctor.
See the difference?
Emerald reflects role.
If people fail to state they're an "Emerald *role*", then they're scum, who forgot this little detail.
Khan did.
And then, later--AFTER having been called out for it--includes the Emerald part.
People flip over this. Again, for what reason I don't know. He claimed the same exact thing, just with flavor this time.
It wasn't flavor.
It was a key detail of a supposed role PM.
Which he "left out".
More like didn't get.
(As in, he's Mafia, faking miller.)
Now people ask him what kind of a miller he is even though he already said he's a regular miller. He decides to PM the mod for clarification because of his IRC business and
apparently you guys have made him unsure.
One should NEVER be unsure of their role. If you have a question,
ASK DURING THE NIGHT.
We have all of Night Zero to clarify details like this.
If I were a miller, I'd definitely ask any question regarding the type of miller I am during the Night Zero chat.
It's the best time to do things.
He didn't. He got confused; he got called out for it.
You're defending/buddying up to Kublai Khan, and doing it a lot, VP.
The fact that Khan has only two active defenders (VP, Lowell. Rofl did so earlier, but hasn't truly defended Khan other than for the fact that he claimed at exactly the right time and gave reasoning why the claim doesn't work as scum) is more proof in my eyes that Khan's scum, and that his defenders are his scumbuddies.
-The mod PMs him his role right back. ie, it says regular miller so that is what you are.
This was NOT specified.
While I agree that he shouldn't have doubted his status as a regular miller because that is what his PM said,
If you agree with the scum tell,
Why aren't you voting for him, then?
(I'm voting for you because I think you're more likely to be scum than even Khan.)
you guys have to keep in mind that you were the ones badgering him about if he was a death miller or not.
Testing his claim.
He failed.
His grade was well below 50%, an F-.
Prior to that, I saw no suggestion from him that he could have been anything else than a regular miller.
Again, we tested him. He failed because of
-The fact that he said regular Miller, not Emerald Miller,
and
-The fact that he was confused about being a death/normal miller.
You're being revisionist and using confirmation bias Zazie.
Zaz does, admittedly, seem to be tunneling a bit. However, she is also raising excellent, well-founded, logical points which I agree with.
(You might Blame the fact that, while my posts are longer than hers, if it weren't for that fact, we'd have very, very similar posts.)
Your vote hasn't even moved the entire game has it?
So, what?
What's the problem with voting your top suspect?
Not moving a vote the entire game is NOT something to attack another for. It just shows that they haven't changed their suspects.
(Which, in my opinion, is a pro-town thing to do. I consider it a SERIOUS scum tell to overnight change opinions on a player without power role influence.)
I think you've had some good questions put to other players in this game, but you haven't really followed up on much because you're stuck on the miller thing.
She's not "stuck" on anything. She's pursuing someone who has made scumslips, and who has shown inconsistency in his claim.
That's scum hunting for you.
I don't personally feel
as you are making him out to be
See emphasis.
He says he doesn't think that Khan's Obv scum as Zaz says.
That doesn't mean he doesn't think Khan is scum. In fact, to me, it implies that he DOES think that Khan is scum, just not
scum--yet defends him, anyway.
Anyone else notice this?
I sure did.
and I would suggest you at least go through some of your exchanges and look at the perspective of KK being town and be a bit objective about it.
I have done so occasionally. No matter how I look at it, I can't see Khan as town. He keeps on coming off as scum. (Same with you, VP. I prefer to hold back on PBPA's at this point in time, and don't do summaries of suspicions without a PBPA most of the time, so if you want the accusations against you, it'll be a huge PBPA-style post. I think we can both agree that this would be, at this time, a waste of time and effort.)
If he still looks like scum to you, then by all means keep your vote.
Yea...you look like scum to me, VP, as does Khan, specifically, you look like buddies with Khan.
Also, do you really think a claimed miller in a large game is going to be able to ride that claim to victory?
Old news. Rofl said this already. I think it was a tactical error from Khan, who didn't think of the consequences a miller claim would have, and he's forced to defend himself now.
Even if he is scum, he put a big target on his back and would likely have multiple killing factions gunning for him tonight.
Exactly why it was a tactical error, one which Khan likely overlooked.
Say we didn't lynch him today, who would you like to see go to the gallows?
I want you dead before Khan. Your flip would prove my theory about the defenders of Khan being scum when you flip scum, and make it more likely that Khan's scum as well.
Mastin, why are you constantly trying to compare yourself to Zaz?
Because if I didn't insist on longer posts, we'd have nearly identical playstyles.
Zaz is a player who I hold VERY high respect for. (Did you read the link for Polygamist? All three of my scum partners there are players who I respect and admire.)
You really think this is a valid scumtell?
The way a replacement request is worded?
Heck f-ing yes.
What grounds do you have for doubting johnny had RL issues?
This is
NOT
what I was saying
--VP is conveniently leaving out a VERY important part of the quote!
Mastin wrote:Unforseen my @*censored* (
Johnny might have true real-life difficulties
[not any sort of a tell; we all have issues]
; I'm commenting on the actual wording).
Every time I've seen a player
word their replacement request in this way
, they've been scum. <_<
(Want examples?)
Note the emphasized parts. I was saying there's no reason to doubt Johnny had Real Life Issues--but it's the WAY the request was worded to be suspicious of.
VP wrote:Perhaps you can sum up the case.
Me?
Sum things up?
In theory, possible.
In reality, summaries only convey part of the message; I can't deliver it all without doing a PBPA.
I've asked people multiple times now and have seen nothing of substance beyond him wanting to policy lynch you.
They can, if they want to. I won't, because that'd be a full-blown PBPA on both you and Johnny.
I've yet to see that.
And this comment is why you are scum.
People who fail to see how I am scum hunting, and how I have caught scum before with this tactic, will be far more likely to be scum--especially when I am targeting THEM.
In fact, it seems more like you spraying buckshot and hoping something hits.
What's with people and their shotgun metaphors? :/
(You'd be surprised how many times this accusation has been made.)
I think if you were more focused you'd be more effective, but that's just my opinion.
Focusing:
Commenting on only my suspect's posts and taking the automatically most scummy interpretation in order to push for their lynch.
Current primary target: VPB.
Still want me to focus, VP? That's how I would.
What is the point of saying this?
A warning to the rest of the town that you're a darn-good scum player. (And a request for your town meta for comparison.)
It looks like you are trying to make the town afraid of me or something.
There's that referring to the town in third person thing, again, which is a scum tell.
What other scum game did you see me in?
I saw you in Inventor, and I thought you were town there. I saw you in an ongoing game, thought you were town. I have heard via your nomination for Best Newbie that in your first game, as scum, you played very well. And if I looked at your posts there, I'm sure I'd think you were town there as well.
Also, you can find links to my town games in my wiki.
I find it to be a slight town tell to post the links yourself, and a slight scum tell to not.
(You failed that test.)
Because that is where I first posted to say hi.
The logical thought process is to go to page one, post your hi message from there, and then go back to page one to start rereading. It's what I've always done. Because it makes sense to me.
I also wanted to see who was being voted and by who so I could compare it to the progression throughout the game.
Iso-mod does this better than anything else.
You're saying you would not do something like that upon replacing in?
I go to the first page and immediately start reading. When I reach the bottom of the first page, I type in the Quick Reply box my Hi, hello, etc. post and then get to page two.
It's how the french abbreviate monsseuir.
Anyone else speak French? Can they verify this?
Also, are you being serious?
If there's no smiley, then I'm serious. (If there is one, well, more likely than not, I'm not.)
Do you consider this scumhunting?
How is pointing out a potential scumslip NOT scum hunting, VP?
I'm pretty sure he said that he would be ceasing to post content because you guys were acting ridiculous.
I know, but it's concerning to me. I do not recall seeing this attitude from rofl in the past.
Also, you should appreciate his meta since that seems to be your excuse constantly.
The fact that it is concerning to me is proof that I do--I haven't heard of rofl doing this in the past, and do not recall having seen it, either.
I'll believe it when I see it.
You HAVE seen it--you just don't like what's there: I'm scum hunting YOU. I've got you pegged as scum, most likely have your buddies down as well.
I won't deny there are some good points in some of your posts,
Odd, that you say this, when most of my points are against you and Khan.
Scumslip?
but there is also a lot of unnecessary fluff that makes the good points seem few and far between.
I respond to fluff with fluff. Other than that, I might make a fluff response occasionally, but not often. Most of my posts are filled with scum hunting. You're just afraid to see it.
I don't want to read a post that takes me an hour.
It takes me less than ten minutes to read my longest posts in this game, VP. And I'm a slow reader, compared to most.
I have a life.
So do I. And yet, I still manage to type up these posts which take ten times longer to type than to read, and read others' long posts, and do this all in multiple games.
If you cut the fluff out and actually focused on a handful of suspects it would actually be considered scum hunting to me.
Alright, I'll cut the fluff out in my responses. I'll focus on you and Khan, a handful of suspects. I'll scum hunt against my primary suspects and make good, logical cases against them.
Really, VP--you're making it sound like you WANT for me to attack you harder.
Like I said before, you are just responding to every little detail
Leaving no slips not pointed out...
and a great deal
Actively contributing...
of it is unnecessary spam.
My posts are scum hunting. Not spam.
Having 40% of your post be composed of it is something else altogether.
My recent posts have almost no fluff in them. Not near this mythical 40%.
How am I buddying with rofl by stating an opinion that I think his playstyle is more effective than yours?
How is it not buddying to complement another person's playstyle, and essentially say they're correct in everything?
My point was saying that your posting style is not as pro-town as you think.
It is, too.
-Having fun has nothing to do with that.
You essentially asked why I insist on having long posts, wanting to know what's so pro-town about them. This being the weakest of my reasons for doing them, I listed it first.
-We would have got out of the RVS either way,
I got us out quickly. Like, seriously quickly, with this playstyle.
I got us playing the game.
The RVS would drag on for pages more if not for me.
and you are inflating your own self-importance on this matter.
Do you deny that it's good to get out of the RVS?
-What scum hunting is in there is indeed pro-town, I agree.
Again, almost all of my scum hunting has been on you and Khan.
If it's pro-town, then you're essentially admitting you're mafia.
-How are my reactions suspect?
Because your reactions are NOT the pro-town reactions to my post. I will NOT specify specifics, because it will allow you to adjust your playstyle to avoid it. I want you to continue digging your hole deeper with your reactions to me.
Your posting style is in fact ANNOYING.
I know. And pointing it out once is alright.
[follow-up statement self-edited out]
Explain to me how finding it annoying is scummy.
To do so would mean that you would no longer make this mistake, and you'd try to be more pro-town with it.
-And so on is not a point.
Most of the other points after that are too minor/repetitive for me to list.
Hence, "And so on".
As much as you would like to believe you two post the same, you do not.
Besides the fact that I have lots of long posts, and she has lots of short posts, what makes us that different, VP?
Her posts, while plentiful, are nicely broken up and are salient.
Her posts are small, and smaller posts are easier to organize.
Yours are a jumbled mess.
On the contrary, they are very organized. They are as organized as I can make a long post be.
When she does post fluff, it is in a separate post I can just skim over an ignore. Yours is all jumbled together and unfocused.
Helpful hint:
Whenever you see a smiley in my posts, it's a safe assumption that it's most likely fluff and can be skipped.
I never post fluff without a smiley.
You can skim over my fluff if you know what to look for.
Yours is all jumbled together and unfocused.
Not really. I put my points in a chronological order. The order that they were posted. How hard is it to follow along with that?
See the difference?
Not really. Nothing besides the long posts seems any different than it did before.
And again I ask you why you are constantly trying to link yourself to Zazier?
1: Ignore the 'R'. (Yes, I pay attention, Zaz.
)
2: Because, like I said, I see extreme similarities in styles and opinions. The only thing I see different is that my posts are longer, and slightly less plentiful.
Because I think lynching a claimed miller over bad points on day one is a stupid play?
Because of
-The things I've pointed out in this post
-The extreme defending of Khan
-The slight case of a possible chainsaw defense (this is one of the reasons why I want you lynched. This tell only applies if one of the two flips scum, so if you flip scum, you were chainsaw defending Khan.)
-General scummy play, which would be best explained by a lengthy PBPA.
How much stock do you really put in this theory?
I'm over 90% sure that one of you three is scum. 75% sure that at least two are, and about 60% for all three.
A great deal.
you clearly have a loose definition of scum hunting.
You clearly have a loose definition of "spam".
If you say it enough it must be true!
The problem with this statement is,
It's not just me saying it.
SEVERAL people have said it, and confirmed it to be true.
At best it's anti-town.
Oh, I admit, I can see how it could be anti-town.
But I also see why it is pro-town.
Again, people have lives.
And, again, it takes less than ten minutes on average to read my posts. (This one, I can understand if it's longer. Half an hour, max.)
Most do not want to stare at the computer for an hour or more just to read your posts and then have to make a post themselves.
It takes half an hour, absolute max, for me to read my longest posts on this site.
You don't even include a tl;dr of your main points.
I do, most of the time. I haven't, because I--again--suck at summaries and when I do do the tl;dr version, I always feel as if part of the conclusion, the summary, is missing.
I don't blame anyone for skimming your posts.
Skimming's fine.
Ignoring's not.
-Some things aren't worth commenting on.
Yes, they are.
-Not if people have to fish through a 1500 word post for a slip.
People not reading my posts is their problem. If--as mafia--I made a slip, and people failed to notice it due to their own laziness, it's THEIR PROBLEM FOR BEING
.
Also, this is entirely WIFOM
Obviously, you have not checked up on my meta. I've stated this to be the case since 742.
-Detailed without any kind of focus.
The only greater focus I can give would be to comment even heavier on my top suspects and come to the conclusion that is the scummiest. You don't want me to focus.
-Easy reference for who though?
I can easily hyperlink people to the posts with my summed up thoughts on multiple players. Zaz uses multiple hyperlinks for her multiple posts; I can use a single hyperlink for all of my points.
Say someone flips scum and I as a town person want to find your interactions with that person later.
Not hard to do. I provide my suspicions in almost all of my posts.
It becomes almost impossible because of the sheer disorganization of your posting style.
It becomes super-easy, because it becomes obvious who my suspects are in any given post. (You, Khan, and Lowell currently hold spots #1, 2, and 3, respectively.)
If you want my opinions on who is town, those are far and fewer, because I dislike stating this too often--gives scum targets and all that. I'll occasionally state someone who I think is solidly pro-town all the way through, but usually, it'll be in a matter of debate between that player and another, making it an indirect accusation against the other player being scum.
-Freedom to do what?
Freedom's freedom. I can do anything with freedom.
Generally, though, it gives me the freedom to scum hunt however I wish to.
Things you repeatedly bring up again and again to insinuate how pro-town you are:
Okay, let's shoot these all down, one by one.
most scumtells are null against such a "unique" individual like you,
This is me saying that they're NULL tells. Meaning NOT SCUM,
BUT ALSO
NOT
TOWN AS WELL
.
you claim sole responsibility for moving the game out of RVS,
So, what? It might be a pro-town action to do, but it's a null tell; I'd do it regardless of alignment.
you inflate your importance in moving the discussion along,
I got us discussing. That's, again, a pro-town action (why I listed it as pro-town to do),
But something that I'd do regardless of alignment. Making it a null tell.
you are scumhunting so very very much.
Explain to me how good scum hunting isn't pro-town.
No town player
No True Scotsman fallacy.
should have to be constantly referencing these things and their actions should speak for themselves.
The thing is, I'm not.
I insist that most of these things are null tells.
That means null--NOT SCUM, NOT TOWN.
Do you have worries that yours do not?
My actions are always pro-town in nature. They might be seen as anti-town to others, but they've also got the pro-town side of the coin as well. It's a null tell, though, my posting style.
Orly? Care to explain what 'Emerald' does to affect someone's role?
I WILL lynch anyone who fails to specify they're an Emerald *role*. Because if they fail to specify they're an Emerald, then they're forgetting a key detail in their PM. Meaning, they're scum, not an Emerald.
Khan failed to do it initially. Which is why I think he's scum, amongst other reasonings. (I think you're scum even more, though, VP.)
I call BS.
You call, testing a claim to see if he slips, to be BS?
Yea, right.
You're defending Khan heavily by attacking me.
And Zaz.
And everyone attacking Khan, for that matter.
You were rolefishing.
I NEVER rolefish. I was asking for details from SOMEONE WHO HAD ALREADY CLAIMED, as a trap.
And you tried to call Hayker a rolefisher for calling you on it.
Hayker asked me, someone who has NOT claimed, for what flavor I have.
THAT is rolefishing.
I asked someone who had claimed the details of their flavor, as a trap.
That is NOT rolefishing.
wtf? Explain this please.
This:
Like I said before, if you're town it's time to knock it off.
If you don't, then please
die
.
That's blackmailing.
Because clearly I think he is more suspicious.
Considering how much you're quoting me?
Not buying it.
Seems like OMGUS and weaksauce against my predecessor more than anything.
I made clear, logical arguments against Johnny. I just won't summarize them because a summary loses part of the message.
I apologize for the long post.
Not at all. I enjoyed it.
Ah, and all that from mostly only VP's post.
