Newbie 800 ~ Mafia: The Reality Show (Game Over!)

[auditor9006]

Anticollie posts without much game content, while Sideney barely posts at all. here he agrees with everyone, states non controversial reasons for his vote and tries to not stand out at all.

I call bullshit.

I agree here, Onion if your trying to build up a case against one of us, try someone who

isnt

getting discussion going, asking mostly solid questions and generally being one of the most productive towns.

Sorry to do this guys but i

may

need a replacement - from this sunday afternoon to the friday i will be going camping with my mates.

If its too long mod feel free to replace.

[Haylen]

Currently catching up, bare with me guys, I've had a busy last few days, university open days, university finance stuff and the like.

[ric]

got a day off, my friend is getting married today!

I have seem many players like yourself attempt to poorly communicate this feeling. What you have done here is enthralling- and I don't know why.
PS: EBWODP: Edited By Way of Double Posting.

thanks and thanks.

in 053 i neglected the possibility that a a pro-town could somehow know Cyren was scum and hammer him. it is such an unlikely possibility that i didn't think of it at the time. none the less, it is possible and so was added to the theory later as stated above.

This is bat-shit insane.
You're making the arguement that is it plausable for someone with pro-town interests to sucessfully build a case for a lynch, and then cast that lynch in 53 posts?
With all due respect, I disagree.

can someone explain to me whats going on here. im unclear on what is being said, like what is the point of contention? 53 posts? huh?

eventually if we are done with questioning on the last day and he is still top dog then i would be more then happy to vote his way. Plus if he does come out scum we can always come back to you.

right. well. i just hope if that happens we can proceed level headedly, even if i do have a huge target on my back and i do end up getting snuffed, i just want my perhaps last day to not be lynch fest. i just want a day in court if we do indeed lynch onion and onion is mobbed up. a little pro-bono representation would be nice too i am innocent and i just dont want everyone executing me in the first 5 minutes of the day so i have a legit chance to come with some compulsion.

is auditor post 140 a call for academic credentials? word?

i'll start with ric's post a page ago. first, repeatedly asking Cyren for justification for his vote is an attack against him because its purpose is to see if his vote is scummy or not. it is by no means a bad thing because that's what we are here to do.

no, sorry, the purpose of asking cyren for clarification was to get a better understanding of where cyren stood, if you and i are referring to the same questions

A)I think I am insulted....B)I understand this game is largely perception, but if they do something scummy and I call them out on it they were scummy to begin with....C)Also I've stated this elsewhere in this thread, people will play in styles you don't like. You have to deal with it....D)Play styles can't really be analyzed like that. I'm agressive to a point, yes, but I'm not over agressive....E)However you're not vouching for Onion you WERE infact defending him. Only scum will know who is town....F)I just can't be persuaded to back off Onion based on What If scenarios....G)Also could you cut back a llittle on the foul language please?... H)Also "even if it amounts to being a contradiction, if I'm right" If your contradicting your right either way aren't you?

A)
B)so if YOU percieve something and think it suspicious enough to call out it really IS super suspicious? and if no one else agrees with you then they are all wrong and you are right because you are the arbiter of what is? seems like flawed reasoning considering people arent perfect, there is no perfect way to play the game and the game requires team work.
C)thats fine. i do deal with it. that doesnt mean aggression doesnt warrant a bit of suspicion (see below)
D)playstyles can be analyzed, sure. i dont know what you mean with that. i never said you were "over aggressive" just that you should watch yourself. aggression seems to easily turn into over aggression
E)it depends on what you mean here. was i truly "defending" onion? firstly im not entirely sure what you mean. secondly all i was doing was saying 'look guys, ive got this feeling and its pretty strong and this is what i think, take it or leave it but know that it means something to me and i think it should mean something to you and this is why and this is where it comes from' id like to refer you to game 790 post 110 by ether http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=100
where she explains her read on lifiea chancelot. this happens all the time in live games because you cant pick apart peoples text in live games and its harder to make someone look suspicious based on the words theyre using. anyway ether vouches for lifiea from the start and is 100% correct like many vouches are
F)thats fine in one sense. but correct me if im wrong but pretty much all mafia investigation is, is one giant 'what if' scenario (aside from your own role)
G) if a mod tells me to i will. until then, chill and learn to deal with things you dont like.
H)in a literal sense, youre almost right except for youre misquoting me on an important word or two but seriously i think it is obvious that what im saying is that if onion ISNT mafia then im validated. but nice try

I don't ask questions that can't be answered

well i mean, come on. any question can be answered. this doesnt mean someone who is asking legit questions isnt controlling the agenda with aggressive play. and, as i noted a few posts ago, where i summarize who i think is medium-->goody and why, i think aggressive play warrants a tad bit of suspicion. did you read post 118? did you read/skim post 133 (or the link in 133)? i have good reason to be suspicious of aggressive play for aggression sake. but, to reiterate, its not a lot of suspicion.

another thing. howre you going to be justifiably suspicious of anything if no one can knock any one elses playstyle? see what im saying? i believe someone else touched on this before this post

[ric]

catch up haylen!!!!!!

[auditor9006]

Not much to say but good response ric. We will of course take into consideration all reasonable dues if onion is scum. I will at least.

140 is simply saying dont call yourself a philosopher without proper academic credentials.

This could well be my last post/last ever post if i am mod killed/replaced within the week.

I really dont want to do it this way but as i have no other choice i

Unvote

Vote:Onion

Yes, i know what i just did and im sorry to put us at L-1 but better to lynch then no lynch, and i wont let that happen just because im not in the picture.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

onion (4) ~ Anticollie, Cyren, sideney, auditor9006

Cyren (1) ~ onion

Not Voting:

Raeil,

ric, Haylen, Echo,

auditor9006

[size=0]Anticollie 0 PROD1 11 | auditor9006 0 | Cyren 1 | Echo 4 PROD1 1 | Haylen 0 PROD1 1 | onion 1 | Raeil 3 | ric 0 | sideney 2[/size]

---Raeil has been prodded. I will see if I can work with auditor9006.

--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

---onion is at L-1!

--Deadline is Saturday, July 4 2009.

(7 days left)

[Echo]

Exams have finished for me, so I should be getting back into the hang of things. In other news, my hard drive died on me two days ago, but that's another story. Oh, I also got around to watching a few scenes from The Princess Bride ;P

There were a few posts beforehand (eg. 116, 117) that discussed the benefit/drawbacks of revealing information. I would personally never choose to withhold information unless it's a lure to trap scum in a contradiction or something like that. In general, I feel that as individuals we'll be bound to miss certain points no matter how carefully we read, so with more information flowing we'll be able to combine our resources and might even be able to find links between people in ways we never thought of before.

Thoughts

Onion

Yes, Onion is still my top suspect. No, I'm not willing to cast the final vote. We still have a week to go, and perhaps some new, interesting information will be revealed during this time which might turn the current vote on its head.

By the way, your reluctance to call Cyren "she" ... is that just stubbornness/preference, or are you actually not reading her posts?

Sideney

Sideney has moved substantially higher in my list. He says a full week before the end of the day phase

I think i will stay with my onion-ric dynamic pair scum until this day end, so don't think i will write much more ... and i vote onion because he seems more near to a lynch this day.

which sounds to me like saying "I don't care if we get any new evidence in the next 7 days, I'm still going to vote onion because he was the scummiest a week into the game and he's got the most votes." He posted his suspicion on the onion-ric pair in (78), a week into the game, then voted 2 days later.

It's ironic to note that he also says

Generally speaking i feel thaty every players that spend much words to analyze is pro-town.

when he doesn't actually post that much himself. And I have to disagree with him on this point; in my opinion a lengthy post doesn't reveal anything about the poster's identity.

Anticollie

There's one thing you've done that makes me a little uneasy; perhaps I'm misinterpreting?

However, we need to see if the scummiest person, Onion, is truly the best option for a lynch- and to see how he turns based upon that data, first ... Onion is probably our choice, but scum slips are anything than uncommon in newbies- and so i encourage you to keep your reasoning fresh and activity high.

You seem to be pretty settled on voting for Onion yourself and you seem to be pretty aggressive in retaliating against any attack onion uses against you (141, 148), but at the same time you still call Sideney to "keep your reasoning fresh" because "scum slips are anything than uncommon in newbies"?

[onion]

i apologize to Cyren for mistyping my pronouns. i'm not doing in on purpose and will be extra careful in the future.

Anticollie tends to write a lot yet say little. sure, he's getting into the whole IC thing and proving us with all sorts of good information, but it is proportionately low game content wise. he's still posted more game context then Sideney, though, so if i gripe about low content i should start with him.

Sideney has an extra e in his name. he stated his suspected pairing of ric and onion in 078 and has stuck with it. he put a 3rd vote on in RVS, possibly scummy but overshadowed by my actions. he claims to be voting for me because i'm closer to lynch than ric, which is true, and acts as though this lynch is in the bag. is avoiding boat rocking pretty hard, and has posted 8 times.

Auditor might have been hiding behind his verse, but stopped due to extreme adverse reactions by the town. recently votes without quite enough justification, citing his going away. i think he's fine though, not very scummy.

Cyren reacted poorly to being called a lurker and seems to misrepresent my position on her and Raiel. other than that, has done good scum busting and posts well. shares the top of my suspicion list with Sideney.

Echo is after me for a contradiction that doesn't exist. focuses a bit much on me, but did a good job mitigating this with his most recent post. other than on my self, shares the same suspicions. not very scummy.

Haylen is catching up. has a memorable avatar so i don't mess up her gender. i think her posting of WIFOM is just fine so long as it is understood to be such. probably not scummy although i'd like her to post more so i can be sure.

Raeil lurks.

Ric is a cool guy. he posts big, posts often and posts well. he pushes when i push back, yet doesn't concentrate on me. him being ok with a contradiction in his logic is odd, and his oft used defense of 'it depends on what you mean by defend/attack' is getting old quick. sofist. (ooooh buuuurn!) not very scummy.

and now back to Anicollie. as is being pointed out by others, Anticollie said "onion is probably our choice", but continues to warn against turning a blind eye to everyone else. he seems to consider me defense insane and bullshit although i'm not quite sure why is isn't giving real analysis instead of name calling. the most noticeable player in our game for sure. scummier than Auditor, but less scummy than Sideney.

perhaps i should change my vote to Sideney due to being the most recently suspicious. he (and Anticollie perhaps) thinks he has this lynch decided, which is scummy with so many days left to cover. despite both being high on my list, i don't think Cyren and Sideney are partners. they just don't match up well enough.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

onion (4) ~ Anticollie, Cyren,

sideney,

auditor9006

Cyren (1) ~ onion

Not Voting:

Nikanor (Raeil),

ric, Haylen, Echo
[size=0]Anticollie 1 PROD1 11 | auditor9006 1 | Cyren 2 | Echo 0 PROD1 2 | Haylen 1 PROD1 2 | onion 1 | Raeil -- | ric 1 | sideney 3 PROD0 1[/size]

---Raeil has requested replacement.
---I'm going to go ahead and replace auditor9006 as well.

---sideney has been prodded.

-

---Nikanor replaces Raeil, effective immediately. Thank you!

--With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

---onion is at L-1!

--Deadline is Saturday, July 4 2009.

(6 days left)

[Nikanor]

Good evening my fellows. I shall post tomorrow, since I shant finish reading this whole darned thread by to-night.

[Nikanor]

A note to all: I hate page five.
This is going to take longer than I thought...
Luckily, I have Tuesday and Wednesday off, so I will catch up then.

Haiku time!
I hate walls of text.
Page five gives this conclusion:
You're all Mastin alts.

[sideney]

I'm in, i was away for a little trip.

[Haylen]

Page five gives this conclusion:
You're all Mastin alts.

Haha, you haven't seen nothing yet. I wrote a 30 point essay on why I shouldn't lynch once, I refuse to ever read it again, felt so great when I finally wrote "thirtiethly" that essay was longer than anything I've written for educational purposes. I must get back to my catch up post...keep getting distracted.

Sideney, catch up! Willing to give the benefit of doubt for now, even though you didn't inform us or the mod.

[sideney]

Sideney, catch up! Willing to give the benefit of doubt for now, even though you didn't inform us or the mod.

I hope someone place that hammer-vote on onion, this will sure give us more information than any so called post analysis.

[Nikanor]

I hope someone place that hammer-vote on onion, this will sure give us more information than any so called post analysis.

Hoping for a hammer when there is still almost a week left on the clock is a scum move, sideney.

Vote: sideney

[Nikanor]

and i vote onion because he seems more near to a lynch this day.

So you're just bandwagonning, then. Going with the flow, as it were. This is usually a scumtell.
If we lynch Onion today and he flips scum, I suggest we keep a VERY close eye on sideney. His pairing of ric and onion is fishy, he may be trying to sew a day two mislynch by bussing his partner (who is probably going to be lynched anyway) and pairing him with a townie, so that the townie gets lynched day two.

[Vi]

Raskol replaces auditor9006, effective immediately. Please welcome him.

[Haylen]

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Raskol! Join us! Please don't post in rhyme unless it's completely understandable. Please refer to me using female pronouns

[Haylen]

oh for goodness sake! I wrote a long analysis post and lost it cause it logged me out when I refreshed the page. Now I need to start all over again. Grrr.

[Raskol]

Confirming as replacement for auditor, will try to get caught up quickly.

(I have no intention of posting in verse )

[Raskol]

I would appreciate it if no-one hammers before I can get caught up. To that end, I am going to

Unvote

for now.

If, after reading the thread I agree that onion is the scummiest and that the town is in a good place for a lynch, I will re-vote.

[Raskol]

Hate to triple post, but just to make extra sure I did it right---

Unvote: onion

[Haylen]

No need to write the players name when unvoting But it can help the mod sometimes.

[sideney]

and i vote onion because he seems more near to a lynch this day.

So you're just bandwagonning, then. Going with the flow, as it were. This is usually a scumtell.
If we lynch Onion today and he flips scum, I suggest we keep a VERY close eye on sideney. His pairing of ric and onion is fishy, he may be trying to sew a day two mislynch by bussing his partner (who is probably going to be lynched anyway) and pairing him with a townie, so that the townie gets lynched day two.

You are flying high with your imagination. Or maybe you are the one that is distancing from onion, even if that is a remote possibility because you aren't on scum-radar of anyone before this post.

[Raskol]

Okay, I've just finished a (somewhat quick) read-through of the thread.

I'm seeing that this is going to be a fairly long post all in all, but I'll try to keep it from becoming a "wall of text" by keeping each of my points fairly brief and clear, separating them with spaces, and keeping everything as well organized as I can. Still, if anyone could suggest any way for me to improve my style so they can better understand what I'm saying, please do!

_______________________________________________________________________

Onion-

-I don't buy your defense of the early L-1 at all. First of all, the reasons you gave for doing it were completely inadequate (for a laugh? for novelty? You may not be aware of it but you are playing with others and we will not be as amused as you are if town loses). You said you were sure that no townie would hammer, but you also said you were worried about (or at least aware of) the possibility that someone would vote at the same time as you and get a quicklynch. Which is it?

-I don't agree with your assessment that RVS cross-voting was scummy. But even if I were to agree with you that it was even a minor scum-tell, why would you vote for Cyren instead of her supposed scumbuddy? Even if you'd had strong suspicions, a quicklynch would do us no good---surely you can see that? If you thought they were really trying to distance, then your suspicions would have been tested just as well by voting her scumbuddy and seeing her reactions, couldn't they?

-Nearly every single one of your posts has included a list of players with brief notes of yours on the side to the effect that we should find them suspicious for (insert flimsy reason here). It would be one thing if you were actually scum-hunting effectively and building strong cases against specific people---that could be seen as pro-town---but it seems as if you are casting suspicion randomly in as many directions as you possibly can. That seems more like scum trying to divert attention. What makes this appearance even stronger is the fact that you were still doing it at L-1! What on earth were you thinking? That is the time to be making a strong defense of your actions.

I really hope I hear better from you than I've heard so far. If you have any real suspicions against specific people, then make a case. In the meantime, you are going to have to convince me and others that you are not a good lynch target, because as it is now I have no problem with stringing you up once the deadline is a bit closer. At Day 1 it is impossible to tell for sure if you are scum, but your play is hurting the town more than anyone else so far.

FoS: Onion

(as things are now, this *will* become a vote when we are closer to the deadline. You have my absolute guarantee that I will lynch you if things on Thursday/Friday stand where they are now.)
_______________________________________________________________________


That said, I do feel like there is a lot more information to be gained today, and plenty of time to get it in before we think about lynching anyone at all. I have some questions for a few people for now, and will be re-reading the thread at least one more time today, so I may have more later as well, in addition to the replies I'll have to whatever responses I get.


_______________________________________________________________________

Sideney-

Thanks for the link, Raeil. I spent most of the day reading through that ^^;

It would have been really bad for town if I had been quick lynched

Back to this quote: are you suggesting something, Cyren? Sounds to me like you're hinting at a role :/

Are you trying to rolefishing? Bad bad bad....

Unvote

Would you care to explain why you didn't vote for Echo here? I mean, if you thought he was role-fishing and it was "bad bad bad..." why didn't you vote for him?

If you already had your vote on someone else I could possibly understand, but you unvoted in that same post.

If you were waiting for a response before you voted, I could understand, but you didn't ask for one, and in fact, never followed up on your suspicion.

In fact, your next post with any real content in it was another voteless suspicion-throw at someone else entirely:

Why ric and onion are still voting Cyren? and why ric is trying hard to make Cyren look scum? If i have to bet ,i think that i will go with the onion-ric pair.

It is my opinion that, as town, you should be scum-hunting actively, and making people feel the heat. Not using your vote to back up your suspicions strikes me as anti-town. Still, it's not necessarily scummy in itself.

So, let's look at your voting record to find out what you *did* do with your vote so far, hmmm?

First vote:

Let's thing get hot.

Vote: Cyren

This is good, imo. L-2 is not a bad place to put someone in RVS---not too dangerous, but it will definitely "heat things up"---which can be good for town.

Your next post I've already quoted:

Thanks for the link, Raeil. I spent most of the day reading through that ^^;

It would have been really bad for town if I had been quick lynched

Back to this quote: are you suggesting something, Cyren? Sounds to me like you're hinting at a role :/

Are you trying to rolefishing? Bad bad bad....

Unvote

At this point, Raeil had already unvoted, and so Cyren was out of immediate danger, sitting at L-2...which is exactly where you had already put her. You chose to unvote and put her at L-3, which doesn't sit right with your earlier choice to put her at L-2 to turn up the heat.

If you had some other choice for a vote which seemed more pressing to you, I could overlook such an inconsistency. However, you did *not* vote for anyone else, despite the fact that you were accusing Echo of what is, to me, a pretty serious scum-tell (rolefishing).

In fact, you didn't place your vote again until page 5, when you voted for Onion, giving extremely weak and vague reasoning. You only did this after a fairly strong bandwagon had built on him, and a lot of suspicion had been cast his way, at a point when few other people were being strongly considered as suspicious. Coincidentally, you were the third voter, just as you had been for Cyren:

Same long consideration:

ric quickly unvote Cyren, than Fos orion, don't seems like distancing?

I lied, not long but short.

Vote Orion

Who? ~Vi

Why was it okay for Cyren to be at L-2 before, but not after? I think it's this: you saw that Onion had gotten suspicion for jumping on the bandwagon, and you didn't want to be associated with it. So even after Cyren was out of danger, you unvoted to get off the wagon, abandoning your phony motive and forgetting that you'd claimed you wanted the heat on Cyren.

You tried to cast suspicion on Echo without voting, and when it didn’t take, you abandoned the effort. You waited until there was another good target, and then voted for Onion on page 5 after others had done the work of starting the bandwagon.

Now, couple all this with the fact that you are lurking, not posting content when you DO post, are making scum-pairs (trying to set up a D-2 lynch, are we?), hoping for a hammer, telling us your vote is fixed, and everything else, and...well....

It would be dishonest of me not inform you that I am getting a MASSIVE scumstench from you at the moment. My read on your behavior is that you are mafia scum who wants to get a bandwagon lynch without being seen as having pushed it (for all the reasons I've listed above).

I'll admit that this is my first game, but I've read through several before now and I have to say that while I think Onion's play has hurt the town more than anyone else's and I'll still vote for him if I can't convince the town that you're scum, my vote is on you for now as #1 mafia suspect:

Vote: Sideney