Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[LlamaFluff]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

One thing I learned a long time ago was not to lynch people for being well... for lack of a better word... stupid. It gets a lot of townies lynched because its normally the same people over and over (I am not naming names here, I do not think zee is a "bad" player, I have my list of bad players I refuse to play with though).

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Also kise voting ben really makes me need to reread both of those. Llama has the willies over what happened there

Votecount
Stephoscope - 2 (LlamaFluff, Kmd4390)
Not voting: ortolan, zwetschenwasser, Kairyuu, mykonian, Benmage, magnus_orion, Vi, populartajo, MrBuddyLee, Gorrad, Skruffs, Starbuck, Kise, Seraphim, Stephoscope, ZEEnon, ThAdmiral, WeyounsLastClone, Lamont_Cranston

Hyuk, Hyuk, Heartwarming scenes with the most unfortunate family in the world... What a riot!

With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.

[magnus_orion]

Magnus, I agree, actually. I don't think he'd be so blatant about it. I wanted his reaction more than anything.

Alright, this is a pro-town motive, but I'd prefer to pressure him on the more serious issues I have with his recent posting.

[Kmd4390]

Magnus, elaborate on "more serious issues".

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it even more damning of a case.

[magnus_orion]

@KMD:
Kise's blatant reasoning off the nightkill, along with his confusing and vague reasoning for suspecting shinigami were responsible for the kills.
To me this suggests that he is implicty saying that neither nightkill was from a scum faction. Since a scum faction is extremely likely, the fact that soon afterwards someone died, suggests that kise may know who targetted what.

[magnus_orion]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it even more damning of a case.

You think that without the motive, the case is "damning"? Please clarify.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD:
Kise's blatant reasoning off the nightkill, along with his confusing and vague reasoning for suspecting shinigami were responsible for the kills.
To me this suggests that he is implicty saying that neither nightkill was from a scum faction. Since a scum faction is extremely likely, the fact that soon afterwards someone died, suggests that kise may know who targetted what.

Meaning Kise is Kira who assumed he is the only Kira and Shinigami made the first two kills while Kise killed Semi?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it

even more

damning of a case.

You think that without the motive, the case is "damning"? Please clarify.

Generally speaking, when a case is brought against someone and their defense contains lies & logical fallacies it makes the case against them stronger.

[magnus_orion]

Merely one possible explanation.
Which is why I ask him to clarify his reasoning.

[magnus_orion]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it

even more

damning of a case.

You think that without the motive, the case is "damning"? Please clarify.

Generally speaking, when a case is brought against someone and their defense contains lies & logical fallacies it makes the case against them stronger.

...
Don't side step my questions.
I asked you if, in your opinion, the motive for attempting to preserve a death note not necessary for the case to be, as you put it, "damning".
Its a yes or no question, you understand.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it

even more

damning of a case.

You think that without the motive, the case is "damning"? Please clarify.

Generally speaking, when a case is brought against someone and their defense contains lies & logical fallacies it makes the case against them stronger.

...
Don't side step my questions.
I asked you if, in your opinion, the motive for attempting to preserve a death note not necessary for the case to be, as you put it, "damning".
Its a yes or no question, you understand.

Yes but I hold the question to be a hypothetical which doesn't count for much since the reason the shoddy defense was offered was

because

of the case you mention.

[Kairyuu]

Note 1: I didn't get around to reading during Night.

Note 2: I don't really care. I'm gonna jump into D2 as if it's a new game entirely.

On to some info.

Mmk. So our N1 deaths were:

Zazie, cateraction, and semioldguy.

Of those, the only one I am not scratching my head about is Zazie. Neither of the other two had contributed much. From this, I am going to draw that Zazie was the scum NK, and that cateraction and semi were killed by Shinigami trying to look pro-town.

Following from this, I believe that we need to reread Zazie in iso, because she may have been onto something that few other people were picking up on, in addition to giving off strong pro-town vibes.

Proceeding with that shortly.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Note 1: I didn't get around to reading during Night.

Note 2: I don't really care. I'm gonna jump into D2 as if it's a new game entirely.

On to some info.

Mmk. So our N1 deaths were:

Zazie, cateraction, and semioldguy.

Of those, the only one I am not scratching my head about is Zazie. Neither of the other two had contributed much. From this, I am going to draw that Zazie was the scum NK, and that cateraction and semi were killed by Shinigami trying to look pro-town.

Following from this, I believe that we need to reread Zazie in iso, because she may have been onto something that few other people were picking up on, in addition to giving off strong pro-town vibes.

Proceeding with that shortly.

Did you happen to read Kise's first post?

[MrBuddyLee]

I swear I told Matsuda a million times, "Don't tightrope-walk on the rail of the lion exhibit, you idiot." If you ask me, the guy had it coming.

vote: Kise

[magnus_orion]

Well it looks like Llama is trying to line up with 2 for 2 with Stepho here. I stand by my assertion that the case against Zee is very strong & that he is not defending as a simple townie would; there are serious logical inconsistencies in his defense...

Now, what is important is what they gain by being fundamentally wrong in ideas. Are they using fallacies to defend scum, to get town lynched, only when it benifits them? Once you look at those things, then you are able to make a more clear choice about what is scum wrong and what is town wrong. Zee is town wrong.

Really the case against Zee is that he is

scum

wrong trying to save a juicy death note for the NK & then the lies/distortions/logical fallacies that follow make it

even more

damning of a case.

You think that without the motive, the case is "damning"? Please clarify.

Generally speaking, when a case is brought against someone and their defense contains lies & logical fallacies it makes the case against them stronger.

...
Don't side step my questions.
I asked you if, in your opinion, the motive for attempting to preserve a death note not necessary for the case to be, as you put it, "damning".
Its a yes or no question, you understand.

Yes but I hold the question to be a hypothetical which doesn't count for much since the reason the shoddy defense was offered was

because

of the case you mention.

I don't care what you hold it as.
From my point of view, the only reason your case even holds together is because you managed to establish a scum motive for those actions. You seem to think that bit is irrelevant. Explain why the defence itself is reason to suspect zee, then.


Mrbuddylee, is there any reason behind that vote?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Magnus why don't you

examine

my case and see for yourself instead of just jumping on a post of mine mid-stream because it strikes your fancy?

He tried to discourage the vig-vote to save the death note for the night kill and then lied about his opinion of Mastin and used terrible logic to defend all of those actions.

Check my case and Zazier's and see for yourself.

[Vi]

Hi, I'm the secret 27th player.

this game is not modded by Tarhalindur

...I guess that won't work, then?

-----

Anyway, I'm here. These are my baseline reads from D1, in no particular order.

Scum

Cuddly Bear

ortolan
Starbuck

mykonian

magnus_orion
Kise
WeyounsLastClone
Kairyuu (please do not abbreviate this name as "Kai")
Benmage?
populartajo?

cateraction

MrBuddyLee?

Town

Stephoscope?
ZEEnon

ZazieR

Lamont_Cranston
LlamaFluff

Spolium

ThAdmiral
Gorrad? (Gorrad almost looks Town to me; I have no idea what to do)
Kmd4390

No signal, step away from the carpeted wall

Everyone else

So that's where I'm at right now. The person I most wanted to see lynched after D1 was...

Vote: Starbuck

(L-10) for few posts, many words, little content.
If you disagree with my reads, say something and I'll see if I can show you what I saw.

Also, a suggestion for Stephoscope.

Now works on 500% more backgrounds.

-----

About what's gone on today:

Kise 1999 and Benmage 2008 look like scumposts. Benmage 2008 looks transparently scummy.

The strongest part of the ZEEnon case by far is the meta argument Zazie brought out. I think overall the case is kind of overblown though.
I would disagree that he's a "quality" player, but he's certainly more experienced than one would think from his playstyle.

[irrelevant]Kmd seems like a completely different person to me in recent games than when I first met him in Kirby Mafia. I blame that Ether-avatar. [/irrelevant]

Large_Constellation pointed to the right post for the wrong reasons in 2022. The question is not why he was trying to pin things on the shinigami in particular, the question is why Kise engaged in mass speculation in the first place. The whole "FIRST!" thing screams scum needlessly outing themselves, and I'm going to wait for Kise's explanation.

[magnus_orion]

Magnus why don't you

examine

my case and see for yourself instead of just jumping on a post of mine mid-stream because it strikes your fancy?

He tried to discourage the vig-vote to save the death note for the night kill and then lied about his opinion of Mastin and used terrible logic to defend all of those actions.

Check my case and Zazier's and see for yourself.

Because you don't sufficiently answer my questions or are too vague in your reasoning. We've had this miscomunication problem before because of your stubbornness in never clarifying anything.
You state her defence is bad and "shoddy"
How is that an explanation of why her defense is scummy?
("How" questions are answered with the word "by". "Why" questions are answered with the word "because".)

[magnus_orion]

Large_Constellation pointed to the right post for the wrong reasons in 2022. The question is not why he was trying to pin things on the shinigami in particular, the question is why Kise engaged in mass speculation in the first place. The whole "FIRST!" thing screams scum needlessly outing themselves, and I'm going to wait for Kise's explanation.

Well, I think its all important.
Explain how you think the whole "FIRST!" thing is scum needlessly outing themselves, though?

[Vi]

Explain how you think the whole "FIRST!" thing

is

scum needlessly outing themselves, though?

Replace the bolded with "looks like".

I don't really want to explain my thoughts until Kise answers for himself though. Sorry for the non-answer.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Magnus why don't you

examine

my case and see for yourself instead of just jumping on a post of mine mid-stream because it strikes your fancy?

He tried to discourage the vig-vote to save the death note for the night kill and then lied about his opinion of Mastin and used terrible logic to defend all of those actions.

Check my case and Zazier's and see for yourself.

Because you don't sufficiently answer my questions or are too vague in your reasoning. We've had this miscomunication problem before because of your stubbornness in never clarifying anything.
You state her defence is bad and "shoddy"
How is that an explanation of why her defense is scummy?
("How" questions are answered with the word "by". "Why" questions are answered with the word "because".)

No the problem is you want to play "Mr. Genius Inquisitor" to make yourself look good without having to do any research of your own. The information you seek is there in plain sight but I can tell you don't really care about that; you just want to ask questions and look really kewl

If you

really

cared about the case you would already know the answer but the fact is you've been just skimming along and are trying to look hip with your "inquisitor" act.

Anyway, now that I have pointed out your obvious behavior

I

will do the research for you and paste the information you want to know.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: Yes, and his second post, which is probably what you are talking about. I disagree, as is quite obvious by the fact that I proposed my own theory. Either Kise is stupid scum that outed himself by pseudo-claiming the kill on semi, or our two theories need to be evaluated seperately to see which one is more likely.


Also, protip for everyone: Since all of the kills that happened appear to have been caused by death notes, we have AT LEAST three of them to destroy still, and it is also likely that the scum have no factional kill, and that they are either currently completely harmless (having no death note), or contain exactly 1 death note at this time (balance issues with giving the scum multiple kills as well as the fact that they can switch off each Night if they want to make it unlikely that they would be given more than 1 to start with). If we are dealing with the former, then the scum can be safely ignored while we hunt for the Shinigami. If we are dealing with the latter (more likely in my opinion, given my theory on the kills) then the scum with the death note will be more difficult to lynch than other scum and/or townies and/or Shinigami, given that the scum will be EXTREMELY hesitant to bus the partner with the death note.

Next, and this is a bit late, but it's something to note, myko refuses to self-vote as town. This is a meta I have on him from Open 145, when he was my Lover partner, and I thought we had broken the game and could get ourselves lynched as part of it. He blatently refused to self-vote. However, he self-voted D1, probably in the hopes that he could get lucky and salvage his death note after his lynch.

Following from that, we must take note that just because we have taken myko's death note, we CANNOT ignore him for the rest of the game. As he is a Shinigami, he is an eligible target for receiving a death note from another player, so if the scum or another Shinigami decide that he is a safe place to store their note temporarily or permanently then they could give it to him. Keep this in mind as we progress. myko is not to be ignored.

Preview edit:

@Vi: But I

like

when my name is abbreviated as Kai, though your preference of Yuu is fine too, though counterintuitive. The only abbreviation I don't like is Kair, because it forces an incorrect pronunciation.

Also, please provide your case on me (and "lurking" doesn't work. I don't purposefully lurk as any alignment. I've simply been having trouble keeping up with this game).

[magnus_orion]

@lamont:
?
I want to what?
I don't care about looking "kewl". I care about analyzing your responses to my questions. You can stop with your paranoid "hidden motive" garbage.
The fact of the matter is that words have multiple meanings, or vague meanings that cover large grey areas. Therefore, how you phrase something may not come off exactly as you desire the interpretation to be. Hence asking for clarification.

However, even if you were correct, and that was my motive, you are not excused from answering my questions.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok well I've noticed this pattern with you throughout D1 where you have ignored/missed/for some reason have not seen relevant information, you then make it seem like I'm hiding something and then demand I quit hiding the information that YOU missed.

This is standard MO MO apparently...

[Lamont_Cranston]

However, even if you were correct, and that was my motive, you are not excused from answering my questions.

Yes I am excused if that is your motive. In fact if you keep it up I'm just going to tell you where to find the info and tell you to look it up yourself.