Mafia 93 - A Roccisi Summer - Over!

[ekiM]

Hi guys, I'm back now. Was visiting with my parents after I got back and their internet was bust, am back home now. Will have some time to go over things this evening or tomorrow.

I'm a vanilla townie.

[X]

Just looked back through Lowell's ISO, and there's not much there. Lowell, the only content that I see you making outside of your massive replacing post is your appraisal of charter as town. And you don't even explain that during your massive replacing post. I think elaboration is necessary.

You know what? Considering that there's been a drought of activity and Lowell has been actively lurking, I shall

Vote: Lowell

.

[charter]

Well, a vanilla doesn't mean anything, so process of elimination

vote ekiM

[ekiM]

OK, reading from mid page 32 onwards...

I don't think it's significant that Lowell used the wrong term for his group membership. Quite possibly he just looked at his role PM and never read the page one description of how the modular mechanics of this game work.

That said, I have some questions. Why the claim? Did they ever claim a group ability? Every other claimed group has had an ability (we don't know about Upper Roccisi, but lower claimed so and the masons did). Neither of you seems to consider at all the possibility that the other is scum. Why?

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ekim, post 248 was what I was referring to in 690, though now I'm pretty sure it's tajo, not you.

What's the issue with post 248?

Its not a matter of 'saving' him. You went "I dont think he's scum" to your partner and then immediately voted him out of the block - and he didn't say anything.

Seriously.

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Talk about game symmetry is stupid. We've seen no evidence of it at all.

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Seraphim is NK immune but X is vanilla? Odd. Also breaks some of my earlier reasoning for clearing them.

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Vote Count fixed.

Prodding Mixologist* and HowardRoark

*He PMed me during the night, I accepted that as picking up his prod from D1, because obviously, he couldn't reply to it in-thread at the time.

That's the modfom side of it.

Mix was absent from the thread for an absurdly long time but hey, he seemed in touch with the mod at night...

Well, I still think that if he was scum he would have posted something in our QT, but that doesn't really look good for him I guess.

Indeed it don't. I'm not sure why your first clause.

I don't understand how you can think we're scum together. Why would our claim have been this shitty if we're scum together? We would have had it planned out days ago. This isn't really WIFOM since it would make sense for scum to have a solid sounding claim, not this jank we have.

Uh yeah that's pretty much textbook WIFOM.

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Yet this continued into day two, after several scum were killed. If Caboose was Italian, he'd have been down a doctor by that point, thus putting himself in a very vulnerable position. It's obvious that I am/he was a legit cop based on the accuracy of our results - why, then would he be more likely to draw attention to himself as scum cop over town cop? The way he acted makes more sense as town, because there is no kill to use to go after those guilty results; the only way to get those investigations out there is through this thread. If he was scum, he could have just kept his mouth shut and taken care of any guilty result at night.

This is good logic.

Similarly, I find X's 180 on the Caboose subject scummy as shit, but I'm seeing that people are writing Seraphim/X off as probable town because they claim to receive a kill if the other dies:

They've claimed to have an extra vig that gets enabled when one of them dies. I cannot see how they wouldn't kill the other ASAP if either were scum independently. An extra kill is a huge bonus.

...which I agree is a very strong point in favor of them being town.

Sera has now claimed NK-immune though, which is both mystifying and screws with that logic.

1) Spyrex
2) populartajo
3) Lowell
4) ekiM
5) Korts
6) charter
7) HowardRoark
8) X
9) Seraphim

Curious about SpyreX and my placement there...

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I don't see how you can think me and Lowell are scumbuddies when there's already five scum dead. I'm sorry, but there is not seven or eight scum in this game. For that many you need ~30 players, and that's without them all having power roles and so far, all of our scum have ridiculously good roles.

Is this really true? 7 out of 23 is implausible?

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All the votes suddenly piling up on SpyreX = eh?

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No lynch. And SpyreX dies at night. Um. Why not the cop. Bizarr-o.

Lowell, if you don't think Spyrex is scum, who do you think is scum? The main reason I thought he was was his ridiculous charter/Lowell are scum theory.

Why ridiculous? I'm not seeing why 7 scum is so out of whack.

I got an innocent on populartajo.

This all adds up.

I'd support a massclaim. Why not. I doubt it will do much though.

You know what else hasn't done much? YOU! You've made one useful post since replacing in.

Because I found both you and Spyrex to be scummier by a significantly larger margin than the other players in the game. Ultimately, though, either I would have received a guilty on you and known you were scum, which is good news in itself, or an innocent, which, because you claimed backup cop, would be far more beneficial to be made known than in the case of Spyrex.

Again this all makes sense.

So is Korts the only person that isn't cleared/town then? Didn't he not want to claim yesterday as well? I want to see what he's cooked up for us today then before I vote him.

I think it was ekim/X that get a kill if the other dies (unlikely either of them is scum then).

Me/Lowell are neighbors, though I don't think he's scum.

tajo, Howard, Seraphim were all cleared by Caboose/Kison.

Am I missing anything?

Umm, only that like half of this is wrong.

Alright. I'm a tracker/watcher jack-of-all-trades type role, and my abilities are the following: one shot each of tracker, watcher, amnesiac tracker, amnesiac watcher, tracker inventor, and watcher inventor. I also had a bulletproof vest, but I was shot on N0. Only the inventor abilities could be used on N0.

My targets are as follows:

N0 I used the watcher inventor on roflcopter.
N1 I tracked Seraphim. No result.
N2 I watched Caboose. I saw tubby visiting him, and you can see that my actions toward tubby were hostile up until his claim, where his target matched my results.
N3 I used amnesiac tracker on Axelrod, sending the results to Caboose, now Kison. Hopefully Kison can confirm the fact that his predecessor got the result; I breadcrumbed this in my first post after night 3, by asking Caboose whether he recieved anything else than his regular result.

Last night I unfortunately forgot to send an action, since I intended to sit down and thoroughly consider my options with an amnesiac watcher. I intended to watch Kison, but I wasn't really sure who I could send the results to.

So basically, I'm left with one shot each of amnesiac watcher and tracker inventor.

This is all quite detailed, plausible, and tallies with past words and actions. Prima facie true.

N3 I used amnesiac tracker on Axelrod, sending the results to Caboose, now Kison. Hopefully Kison can confirm the fact that his predecessor got the result;

I got it. No result.

Unless Korts and Kison are BOTH scum (wildly unlikely, I think...), this pretty much confirms their roleclaims to be true to me.

After deep thought, I'm going to wait until he claims, but...

With all this, it think it's fairly clear who the last scum is: ekiM.

How so, process of elimination or something? Could you lay it out in a bit more detail?

Charter/Lowell as Neighbors really means nothing, and with Seraphim being NK-Immune it means nothing for me to be a Neighbor as well

Agreeeee, and I like you acknowledging that your own 'hood doesn't clear you.

Well, a vanilla doesn't mean anything, so process of elimination

vote ekiM

Could you lay out that process for me?

[ekiM]

Public information:

Living player claims:

[mrow]Player[col]Role[col]Neighborhood[col]Cop result? ekiM[col]-[col]-[col]- populartajo[col]Backup Cop[col]-[col]Not guilty Seraphim[col]NK Immune[col]Lower Roccisi (solo vigilante)[col]- Korts[col]Investigative JoAT[col]-[col]- X[col]-[col]Lower Roccisi (solo vigilante)[col]- Lowell[col]-[col]Seaside (no ability)[col]- HowardRoark[col]-[col]-[col]Not guilty charter[col]-[col]Seaside (no ability)[col]- Kison[col]Cop[col]-[col]-

All players (color = death confirms alignment, white = claims)

[mrow]Player[col]Alignment[col]Individual Power[col]Group[col]Group powers[col]Cop result? ThAdmiral[col]Italian[col]Doctor[col]Italy[col]?[col]- Tubby[col]Town[col]-[col]Mason[col]Bodyguard[col]Not guilty darkdude[col]Town[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- roflcopter[col]Town[col]-[col]Mason[col]Bodyguard[col]- ekiM[col]?[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- iam[col]Russian[col]1-shot vig[col]Russia[col]?[col]- alvinz[col]Russian[col]Multitasker[col]Russia,Upper[col]?,?[col]Guilty skitzer[col]Town[col]Comp Miller Vig[col]-[col]-[col]Guilty populartajo[col]?[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]Not guilty Seraphim[col]?[col]NK-immune[col]Lower[col]Solo vig[col]- Mufasa[col]Town[col]Protective JoAT[col]-[col]-[col]- Korts[col]?[col]Investigative JoAT[col]-[col]-[col]- inHim[col]Italian[col]Godfather[col]Italy,Upper[col]?,?[col]- X[col]?[col]-[col]Lower[col]Solo vig[col]- Lowell/Mix[col]?[col]-[col]Seaside[col]-[col]- Dust[col]Town[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- HowardRoark[col]?[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]Not guilty Starbuck[col]Town[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- charter[col]?[col]-[col]Seaside[col]-[col]- Spyrex[col]Town[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- Kison/Caboose[col]?[col]Cop[col]-[col]-[col]- Axelrod[col]Town[col]-[col]-[col]-[col]- OGB[col]Russian[col]1-shot vig[col]Russia[col]?[col]-

[ekiM]

Tajo,Sera,Korts,X,Lowell,Howard,charter,Kison.

I think Kison/Korts backed each other up pretty well.

Tajo,Sera,X,Lowell,Howard,charter.

Tajo and Howard cleared (or SECOND godfather in italy? that would be anti-flavor. backup godfather? hehe... unlikely).

Sera,X,Lowell,charter.

Well I'm left with the 2 claimed neighbor hoods. Of the two, seaside is way less plausible. What;s the point, even, of a hood with no power? Also Lowell has done barely anything useful since replacing in, hard active lurking really, mix had total non-interaction with the flipped italians day 1, was absent from thread but not from messaging TDC.

vote: Lowell

.

[X]

Well, a vanilla doesn't mean anything, so process of elimination

vote ekiM

You realize I did ask you a question? And I don't understand your process of elimination.

That said, I have some questions. Why the claim? Did they ever claim a group ability? Every other claimed group has had an ability (we don't know about Upper Roccisi, but lower claimed so and the masons did). Neither of you seems to consider at all the possibility that the other is scum. Why?

I've said different parts of this at different times, still want an answer, and still haven't gotten one.

Yet this continued into day two, after several scum were killed. If Caboose was Italian, he'd have been down a doctor by that point, thus putting himself in a very vulnerable position. It's obvious that I am/he was a legit cop based on the accuracy of our results - why, then would he be more likely to draw attention to himself as scum cop over town cop? The way he acted makes more sense as town, because there is no kill to use to go after those guilty results; the only way to get those investigations out there is through this thread. If he was scum, he could have just kept his mouth shut and taken care of any guilty result at night.

I missed this before. Why would he draw attention to himself as Scum Cop? Because it's given him/you semi-confirmed status. Kison, what do you think of charter and Lowell?

N3 I used amnesiac tracker on Axelrod, sending the results to Caboose, now Kison. Hopefully Kison can confirm the fact that his predecessor got the result;

I got it. No result.

Unless Korts and Kison are BOTH scum (wildly unlikely, I think...), this pretty much confirms their roleclaims to be true to me.

It doesn't confirm Kison in any way, shape, or form.

[Korts]

I will need to spend an afternoon with this game while to catch up and make up my mind. This won't be happening today, but it will happen sometime this week.

[populartajo]

Im catchin up tonight. Had a very busy weekend

[TDC]

Vote Count

Lowell (2): X, ekiM
ekiM (1): charter

Not Voting (6): populartajo, Seraphim, Korts, Lowell, HowardRoark, Kison

Players that are going to be prodded if they don't post by tomorrow: Seraphim, HowardRoark, Kison, Lowell.

[HowardRoark]

I see Lowell being anti-town at best.

vote Lowell

[Kison]

Similarly, I find X's 180 on the Caboose subject scummy as shit, but I'm seeing that people are writing Seraphim/X off as probable town because they claim to receive a kill if the other dies:

They've claimed to have an extra vig that gets enabled when one of them dies. I cannot see how they wouldn't kill the other ASAP if either were scum independently. An extra kill is a huge bonus.

...which I agree is a very strong point in favor of them being town.

Sera has now claimed NK-immune though, which is both mystifying and screws with that logic.

Yeah, this was before I caught that Seraphim was night kill immune. Assuming I have this right, they get a kill if the other dies. This still remains a fairly compelling argument for Seraphim not being scum, given that X is not claiming to have the same immunity.

1) Spyrex
2) populartajo
3) Lowell
4) ekiM
5) Korts
6) charter
7) HowardRoark
8) X
9) Seraphim

Curious about SpyreX and my placement there...

It's more a matter of why I placed people lower. I had X and Seraphim at the bottom under the (now incorrect) belief that there was no logical explanation for one not to have killed the other to obtain an additional night kill. HowardRoark I had an innocent on. As for Korts and Charter, I have liked their play more than yours overall.

Yet this continued into day two, after several scum were killed. If Caboose was Italian, he'd have been down a doctor by that point, thus putting himself in a very vulnerable position. It's obvious that I am/he was a legit cop based on the accuracy of our results - why, then would he be more likely to draw attention to himself as scum cop over town cop? The way he acted makes more sense as town, because there is no kill to use to go after those guilty results; the only way to get those investigations out there is through this thread. If he was scum, he could have just kept his mouth shut and taken care of any guilty result at night.
I missed this before. Why would he draw attention to himself as Scum Cop? Because it's given him/you semi-confirmed status.

I missed this before. Why would he draw attention to himself as Scum Cop? Because it's given him/you semi-confirmed status. Kison, what do you think of charter and Lowell?

...Which still does not distinguish the far worse threat of being killed by scum during the night, which was the foundation of populartajo's argument. That threat is no less significant in the event of a scum cop.

Kison, what do you think of charter and Lowell?

With Spyrex dead and an innocent on populartajo, Lowell is next on my list. I still think he is more likely to be scum than charter. They're unlikely to be scum together, or lying about their role, given how many dead scum there are so far.

Vote: Lowell

[populartajo]

Wait, wait, wait.

Why exactly are you all preferring Lowell instead of charter?

Kison, do you realize that one of the optymal plays yesterday was to investigate Spyrex? Why did you choose me?

And do you think we have competent or incompetent scum?

[Kison]

Kison, do you realize that one of the optymal plays yesterday was to investigate Spyrex?

Obviously not, otherwise I wouldn't have investigated you. Perhaps you can clue me in on what exactly I am missing here, because I am not see it.

Why did you choose me?

My reason hasn't exactly changed since the last time you asked me this, you know...

And do you think we have competent or incompetent scum?

Probably incompetent.

[HowardRoark]

Kison, do you realize that one of the optymal plays yesterday was to investigate Spyrex?

I read this as . . . "Hey!!! I killed SpyreX to waste one of your investigations because I expected an investigation on him! Why'd you investigate me?!?!?" This is gold. Drat that pesky result.

[populartajo]

Howard Rock, what are you talking about?

[populartajo]

Kison, do you realize that one of the optymal plays yesterday was to investigate Spyrex?

Obviously not, otherwise I wouldn't have investigated you. Perhaps you can clue me in on what exactly I am missing here, because I am not see it.

Why did you choose me?

My reason hasn't exactly changed since the last time you asked me this, you know...

And do you think we have competent or incompetent scum?

Probably incompetent.

Spyrex was a very optymal investigation target. He was the top suspect yesterday and the idea that he wouldnt be nked was a very decent assumption to make.

What do you make of him being killed?

[populartajo]

Why do you think you are alive?

Since we're likely going after an Italian, and the Italian godfather is already dead, my guess is that the last two claims will shed some light on why I'm not dead. I find it unlikely I wouldn't be targeted.

Any lights on it?

[Lowell]

I'll be back in action hopefully by tomorrow. I'll address the wagon on me, but offhand I'd say X's 901 is the most suspicious. I will try to post more content, but justifying lurker-votes at this stage isn't productive.

[charter]

Don't like these Lowell votes one bit. He's town, I'm telling you guys.

[Lowell]

@ekiM's 903- I've considered the possibility charter is scum. I just don't find it likely that he is. Alos, in my role PM I didn't think the word "neighborhood" was significant, and called it by what we essentially are: masons. And my reason for doubting the efficacy of a massclaim is that scum have seen enough to reason out what kind of roles are possible, or have possibly already claimed and not been called out on it.

901 is bad for justifying lurkervotes. 903 is bad for shotgunning, and in particular the passage where ekim "questions" the kill of spyrex looks bad. In general, this post has the feel of someone who is trying to position himself as being active and pro-town, but I don't see that much that really hits hard. Scum do this as the field shrinks.

unvote, vote ekim

[Lowell]

... also, charter's defense of me suggests he's town. A scum mason-buddy wouldn't try very hard to prevent his partner from being lynched. It would exonerate him and give him a clear path to victory were the town-buddy to die.

[X]

I'll be back in action hopefully by tomorrow. I'll address the wagon on me, but offhand I'd say X's 901 is the most suspicious. I will try to post more content, but justifying lurker-votes at this stage isn't productive.

But you haven't posted any content besides the reread post and "Charter is town," and you haven't even explained the second one.

Don't like these Lowell votes one bit. He's town, I'm telling you guys.

Why?

[charter]

I've already explained why. Mixologist wasn't posting in our quicktopic, and I'm pretty sure that if he was scum, and had just checked his scum quicktopic, he'd hop on over to ours and try and figure out what I'm thinking. His lack of participation I think means he wasn't interested, which I think makes him much more likely to be town.

[TDC]

Prodding Seraphim

.