Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Benmage]

Vote Cephrir

What was the reasoning behind this? What do you feel about Mastin?

Kmd - if you are vanilla town, claim NOW.

Anybody against a kmd claim, please speak up now.

W.t.f? Why race this push? What will the claim accomplish? Or what are you looking to gain from it?

Considering 3 people are asking, yes, I'm vanilla.

Lol wtf just happened…this was the weirdest bunch of events. We are all vanilla, except for scum…Everyone will claim VT…*sigh*

Mmk. You've passed the test.

Apparently you didn't notice, but this is a Mountainous setup. If you had claimed a power role you would be confirmed scum. That you didn't means that you were either not willing to risk a counterclaim, or that you are actually town.

OK thanks kmd - that was a "trap" (of Battle Mage's devising). This is a mountainous setup, so any non-vanilla claim is an insta-lynch. I would have felt dirty if it worked.

Thanks for the backup Kai and camn.

Oh ya we’ll be catching scum real quick with these set-ups.

Hi. Who is scum?

Mastin, alex, jammer, GIEFF.

There's at least one, if not two or all three, in there.

The Mastin wagon appears to be biggest, so

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

.

---

All you people asking me to write novels about why I suspect who I do, its not going to happen. This is how I play, and I'm right a whole lot more often than I was when I wrote novels.

Besides, I think I've made it fairly obvious why I suspect all 4 of the above. If you really have no idea, read the thread. If you still have no idea, and you've done what you feel is enough looking into the matter on your own, then you can ask me.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

Did you follow the process outlined above?

Read the thread, process…

I've read your posts. They are largely opportunistic, which is the issue. If you fail to mention Mastin in any way other than your vote post based on others' reasoning, you're just being a sheep.

No, he’s going with his “gut” cause that’s how he plays!
(stopping at post 276, need to read rest of page 12…this game isn’t flying, but has a lot of wall posts)

[jammer]

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

@GIEFF, where does BM say Mastin is town, quote?
I remember him positing, if Alex is scum, Mastin is town.

[GIEFF]

Mastin's behaviour was vaguely scummy, but given how much he posts, and his general meta, not really lynch-worthy. Alex's reaction to him was far scummier, and doesnt make sense with them as scumbuddies. Taking the assumption Alex is scum (which is the assumption i am making if i want him lynched), Mastin is almost certainly town. Of course, if Alex turns out to be town, this condition is no longer met, and Mastin can be looked at again.

That is a lot more than "positing," wishy-washy back-door exits aside.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (6): Zachrulez, GIEFF, Benmage, VP Baltar, Debonair Danny DiPietro, SensFan
GIEFF (2): camn, Battle Mage
Cephrir (2): jammer, Kmd4390
Battle Mage (1): Mastin
jammer (1): Kairyuu
Zachrulez (1): SpyreX
SensFan (1): alexhans


Not Voting: Cephrir

8 to lynch

[camn]

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage

[Benmage]

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage[/size]

Oh wow, you are good at this game...what was i thinking.

[camn]

What WERE you thinking?

[alexhans]

Oh what a lie!

You are totally misleading this group of players by trying to represent that it was the primary reason I voted to lynch Panzer in that game.

Zach... I don't frigging care if they listen to me or not. I'm just asking you why is the situation with mastin different. Why do you have different standings regarding a similar situation.

If you recall the way the events unfolded, I was FINE with Panzer's suspicions on the NK speculation, and was in agreement with him that it was scummy. EVERYONE ELSE in the game went against him for that and I ultimately voted for him because he fake claimed as a vanilla townie and his claim didn't add up.

Yes... I agree you didn't go after Panzer until he fake claimed watcher (although he was vanilla town). BUT, you didn't act the same way regarding Night Kill Speculation.
Zach IsO 57:
-Panzer votes steph
-Steph says "...excuse me? That kind of hastiness is going to lose the game. Care to explain why you're so quick with that vote and why it's supposedly so "obvious"?"
-Zach: "it's hard to say because he doesn't give a reason, but a lot of the obviousness has to do with Amished being one of the night kills I think.

Start up that WIFOM machine! "

I think you are stretching a bit and most certainly OMGUSing Steph. I can see both sides of the argument in this instance. I believe Panzer's reaction comes from a position of not wanting to risk power role tells being dropped in NK conversation, which would benefit the scum.

I happen to disagree with how scummy night kill discussion is, but I can certainly see where Panzer is coming from.

-----
Now look at your first post in this game:

Anyway, I'm not really liking the speculation on the NK that's coming from Mastin. Him and Camm are sticking out to me as potential scum right now.

Why is it worse if mastin speculates about nightkills?

Your vote post states that you suspect him because of his attempt to clear himself. That may be more valid. But the whole thing about speculating is just odd.

FOS: Alexhans

cool... I'm fosed... why? because someone is edgy.

I my call it... the camn effect. He who faces inquiry instantly suspects the one who is investigating him...
--------------------

Anyway, I AM writing off my lack of scumhunting to early-game weakness. I don't know who the scum are. I don't put much credence in RVS 'scumslips'.

being lazy can be a scum excuse. and I thought we had left the RVS a long time ago.

The only time I can remember ever getting scum Day 1 is on lurkerlynches... This is my least favorite part of every game.

woah... So you never succeeded in finding scum on day 1? odd... anyway... why aren't you voting a lurker then?
-------------------

W.t.f? Why race this push? What will the claim accomplish? Or what are you looking to gain from it?

Oh God! You've got to be kidding me...

THIS GAME IS VANILLA AND SCUM ONLY! LETS STOP MAKING BULL POSTS AROUND IT. WE ALL KNOW THE SETUP

No, he’s going with his “gut” cause that’s how he plays!

Are you confortable with letting people just say gut or QFT for a case?
--------------------

UNVOTE
vote: Benmage[/size]

Oh wow, you are good at this game...what was i thinking.

hey... I think it's "gut"... that's how she plays...

[alexhans]

EBWOP: It may not be clear but I added 761 Zach quotes over there.

[Zachrulez]

Does it not matter in the least that Mastin is known to speculate on night kills when scum, and you haven't addressed a town game where he's done so like he has here?

Why are you defending Mastin so hard? I must pose the question since there's only one way you can know his alignment for sure.

[Zachrulez]

And you're not investigating anyone at all Alex, you're suspecting people for being suspicious of Mastin for perfectly valid reasons, and spending more energy defending him than would be considered normal for a player who isn't supposed to know anything more than their own alignment.

[Zachrulez]

But anyway, in all those 761 quotes you pulled, all you've proven is that I SHOULD have gone after the NK speculation in that game harder than I did.

What's your point?

[Zachrulez]

EBWOP: It may not be clear but I added 761 Zach quotes over there.

You neglected to point out that paticular ISO post was written in April, and that Stephoscope and Lester both speculated about night, and both turned out to be scum.

Given that, it must be difficult to see it as possible that my stance has changed huh?

[Zachrulez]

Hell, even Ryan speculated on the night kill in that game looking back and re-reading it now.

[jammer]

Zachrulez, now that you are here, could you anwser?

Though I will say right now that I'm not liking what I am seeing from Battle Mage so far.

Tell me, what you don't like about BM.

100th post!!

[alexhans]

sigh...

[Zachrulez]

My 16th and 18th posts in ISO should help you with my feelings on that at the time.

But primarily it's the "claim trap" he claims to have tried to use on Alex.

And also unvoting Alex after numerous text walls attacking him to bandwagon Gieff.

You can probably add lurking and not answering my inquiries to the list now too.

[Zachrulez]

sigh...

Mastin is to you what Stephoscope was to me.

Believe it.

[Zachrulez]

Though given what I know about your feelings on lurking, I do find it VERY strange that you are defending Mastin right now.

[Kmd4390]

HI KMD!

Hey.

KMD...did you even read before voting Cephir?

Not yet. I've read from my first post to this line here. I'm just following Camn until I have enough to make my own decision.

Kai... how do we know she didn't notice? Is she town then?

she?!?

Using other people's arguments to suspect people...

Being so unhelpful you're not a good asset to town. You could hide forever behind this crappy attitude. Not willing to let that happen.

Vote SensFan

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

That these Line by Line attack/rebuttal cases based on early Day 1 "slips" are not helpful in catching scum now, and not helpful looking back either.

I, for one, can't remember anyone EVER catching scum that way on day 1. .. though I admit it has maybe happened.

But I also admit, I am a very poor Day-1 player. My strength is endgame.

Um. How is scumhunting any less helpful Day 1 than later in the game? And how would you suggest playing? I've caught a few scum Day 1 this way before. VP can tell you about one of those.

What was the reasoning behind this? What do you feel about Mastin?

Camn said he was scum. About Mastin, I found it likely that a few of his votes were based on playstyle rather than actually being scummy. Ceph was a better vote on no information.

Lol wtf just happened…this was the weirdest bunch of events. We are all vanilla, except for scum…Everyone will claim VT…*sigh*

They were hoping I was scum who was about to slip up because I replaced in not knowing anything that had happened yet and could possibly fakeclaim a power role as scum. Nobody did anything wrong. I'd have done the same thing in their position.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

I was considering doing this in a game.

---------------------

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

Unvote, Vote GIEFF

[alexhans]

Get it out of your system... I'm not defending Mastin... (Not entirely, at least ) I'm still in awe about the way in wich his waggon formed.... Night Speculation is not wrong IMO but no one jumped at me for saying it.

While I suspected Mastin for not posting it didn't make me confident that he is scum like many of the people who just hopped on his waggon seem to think.

I think that he MUST answer all the questions raised against him and develop on his thoughts about who should we lynch or, at least, who is scummy and why(as other people like SensFan should do).

Zach... I'm not set on anyone town. Remember I warned toy about that when you spoke about jammer. But if I see strange movements and reasonings in Mastin's waggon I'll note them.

[alexhans]

Kai... how do we know she didn't notice? Is she town then?

she?!?

Mixed up KMD Camn genders... my bad...

Do you think he is scum or just disagree with his playstyle?

I'm not sure but I'm confortable with voting him until he plays. He is most unhelpful and may hide behind his null play attitude the whole game.

Lol that’s fine and all. But listing 4 people and saying “one of these 4 is scum” is so arbitrary. I guarantee I could run a randomizer on the people in this game, totally indiscriminate, pull out four people and have just as much confidence in claiming “one of these 4 is scum”.

I was considering doing this in a game.

So?

So, these past few pages give me something to work with. I now know that I DON'T like alex or GIEFF. I DO like Sens, Camn, and Benmage.

why? why? why? why? and... oh... whY?

Unvote, Vote GIEFF

errr... you probably know what I'm goint to ask you...
it starts with W, then H, then Y... then and exclamation mark...

[camn]

Alex..

Simply from a theoretical perspective.. do you think it is good to lay out why people strike you as TOWN?

Also, @KMD... I don't have very good Day1 strategy, as I have mentioned... and I am not against scumhunting. I just am not sure that verbose, line-by-line arguments are a useful way to do it.

Me, I use day1 to gather info.. and sometimes I get sucked into arguments... but I try not to.
You may have caught scum that way.. but I never have.

Now, I am not arguing NO ONE should do it.. but I probably won't. And to the original point of that idea.. I won't think SENSFAN is scummy for thinking the same thing.

[alexhans]

Simply from a theoretical perspective.. do you think it is good to lay out why people strike you as TOWN?

Well... reasons are important in this game... Scum has knowledge town doesn't so seeing through those reasons you can try to disentangle if it's a valid guess or a totally unsupported guess based on a scum game strategy wich, again, involves knowledge.

Camn... It's valid that SensFan or you might not find your attitudes scummy but then he has no right to talk like if he were the sole possesor of truth and that everyone should follow him.

IIRC, he said he would give reasons for his "suspicions". He did not. He told us to look for them in other people's post's.

My vote feels warm and cozy.

[camn]

So that is a yes? (I am slow sometimes..)