Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[Kise]

I forgot to add this in there:

Kise: Ah. I don't think anyone would dare fake that.

Unvote.

So how do you feel about Zer0 overall now?

[ODDin]

Pablito replaced The Corporation, the first post just hasn't been updated to reflect that.

Oops. Sorry about that, then.

[AndyTony]

Kise, there are a number of posts outlining why I'm voting Ceph

- - I feel that Ceph's gameplay has been questionable, ansy, and scummy (all in that order).

Questionable ........
He displayed willingness to please the town when it came to being for or against me out of the RVS - - there were grr's and Arg's going my way, and he joined in (yet remindedhimself infront of us to later point out I might be town?) seems like he commited to being for or against me based on majority opinions - - - People pleasing always strikes me as suspicious, and planting reminders like that seems like a attempt to suggest to the town that you're a hard at work towny playing his cards close to his chest

These things were only enough to raise an eyebrow and are interpretive - it's unfair to vote for that, so I remained suspicious.

Ansy............
His defence was very full throttle and was at a level of desparation that I've only seen in L-1 suspects later in the days (I don't mean desperate in a negative way, I mean "heated, more so). It seemed suspicious, like nervous scum REALLY not wanting negative attention so early

Who would, though? - only enough to be a tad more suspicious.

Scummy..........
fishing for the role. No matter how it gets spun, he knew which words to throw out there to coax Zero to claim and it was scummy and manipulative. There is no doubt in my mind that he hoped a claim would come - - the moment he knew the consequences of fishing for it when I brought it up, he got ansy again.

Vote: Ceph

I feel the suspicions are valid, and my opinion on his scum action is more so concrete than something weak and interpretive - - my vote will stay for now.

I find it hard to tell whether or not he is

fishing

or asking for clarification. At the time that was posted, Ceph was a suspect, so asking for clarification in the sense of "Did you just claim?" (which would aid the suspicion on Ceph) is more so understandable as opposed to "so you're....?".

I feel it would be far too early to pull a stunt like that and a major slip up. We could only really know later (Day 2 later) with more substantial activity and post lynch/nk clarity.

You see, where:

OccamR's post suggests a variable, a 50/50 of "Is he fishing, or is he asking for clarification?"

Ceph has a post where he tries to provoke the very

idea

of claiming to someone who at a time, based on meta, would potentially screw himself over with a scum claim (far more valuable a scum tactic than what OccamR did).

So I would stick with Ceph, "the devil I know" (as in the one with what I feel was a scummier action) and maintain that OccamR's was suspicious. (this is just in my opinion though)

so

Confirm Vote: Ceph
FoS: OccamR

@MCD -
You presented me with post 255 did you not?

*****In that post, I expressed the interpretation/impression I was left with. It could have been asking for clarification just as much as it could have been asking about roles - - it's a variable, and the circumstances (because of how early it happened) suggest it would be more than irresponsible and risky - - - it's far too reliant on interpretation.*****

Then there was Ceph's situation.

Circumstance is what made his scenario all the more substantial.

The circumstance was this:

A player with a meta of claiming scum under pressure (whether true or not) had pressure on him.

This is valuable to scum. The ingrediants to this valuable occurance is three things:

1. Pressure
2. Votes
3. Claim

Zero had 1 and 2 on him - - and in that circumstance,

mentioning

a role claim is asking for trouble.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Remember, it's just my opinion (and asked for, at that)

Is your question leading, or do you just disagree with the opinion?

When you get a chance, try to do a more thorough read through and answer some of the questions you yourself are asking/give opinions. It would be the difference between me seeing you as a new comer trying to contribute and calibrate to us/ and a new coming scum trying to appear town and establish an instructor/leadership role.

Be sure to give a thorough read and ask us anything that needs clarification when you let us know your thoughts on the cases/presented suspicions. Happy to help.

Welcome to the party!

[Alduskkel]

Pretty much what AndyTony said.

[lobstermania]

I'm sorry. I'm still reading up. I'm on page 17 and will try to skim the rest. But it's so juicy, I can't skim it so far....

[hohum]

lobster: take your time, we're not under deadline currently and this is practically a brand new game anyways with all the replacements.

[The Replacement]

I'm still here, surprised I haven't been replaced yet after such a long absence. I'll stick around though to keep the new mod from having to seek yet another replacement. Will catch up later.

[Crazy]

Okay, then, looks like we're good and we don't need any more replacements.

Now that there's nothing stopping the game from continuing, I think it's in the game's best interest to set a deadline.

So it's not a shock to anybody, nor unfair to any current wagons, I will set the deadline for

3 weeks from now

, which is

August 19th.

For subsequent days, I will use yawetag's system for determining the deadline.

Have fun, peoplez.

[AndyTony]

Could it be a week?

I think a little fire under our asses will help jump start things a bit better.

[Zer0ph34r]

Oh my god. This day is so long. There's been so much happening and yet it's been only a day, this is a sign of things to come.

[pablito]

It sucks that I couldn't see cephrir's play unfold in real time, because honestly I forget what made him look scummy in my eyes now. As for khamisa, in the previous reads, I didn't pick up anything from khamisa, it's only been what others have pointed out for me.

The only behaviour that really stuck out for me before was kdub's. However, with khamisa, I can be arsed to actually look at some of the posts to see if I feel the same as others do. But right now, whatever.

[hohum]

FoS AndyTony

for trying to push up the deadline. Very very scummy.

[Alduskkel]

What benefit do you see in the day going

three weeks

more?

Also, happy scumday!

[hohum]

Thank you.
Longer games favor town, shorter ones favor scum. There's a whole slew of people in the game now that weren't here before. It's going to take longer than a week for any sort of sensible lynch to take place.

Only scum would want to rush a lynch.

[Linkspartner]

Can I join?

[MadCrawdad]

When you get a chance, try to do a more thorough read through and answer some of the questions you yourself are asking/give opinions.

It would be the difference between me seeing you as a new comer trying to contribute and calibrate to us/ and a new coming scum trying to appear town and establish an instructor/leadership role.

Be sure to give a thorough read and ask us anything that needs clarification when you let us know your thoughts on the cases/presented suspicions. Happy to help.

Welcome to the party!

@AT

Why would you give Kise any instruction on how to avoid your scumdar? Wouldn't it make more sense to see how he performed first, and then go from there?

[MadCrawdad]

Can I join?

post in the new player thread that you're interested in joining a game...
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11148

[hohum]

all you guys need to wake the hell up man.

[hohum]

@Mod: a cephrir prod would be lovely.

I also really want to hear from AndyTony but a sufficient amount of time has yet to pass before he needs to be prodded. :\

[Cephrir]

I'm not sure what you want me to say... nothing's happened, I'm just waiting for the town to choose me or Khamisa.

[AndyTony]

MCD - - I don't regard it as instructing someone to avoid my scumdar at all, I regard it as keeping them away from a mislynch at my hand. In my last game, there were multiple incidents of people not considering their actions fully, and rightfully striking me as scum - - My weakness on this site is "tunnel vision" and I don't want to risk it in this game.

hohum - - While your comment about time related to being friend or foe to scum and town is sensible, it is still an opinion. At this point in time, my real life schedule is very free and open. In two weeks, I'm going to be pulled in several directions and want to be able to commit to any of the 4 games I'm playing.

In addition to that. This day has gone on far too long and if there were

activity

then yes, I would absolutely agree with you (and I mean that) - - however, more time in a game where people trail off, need replacing, have trouble contributing etc. - - that's

very dangerous

because the extension in time willn ot result in us learning more information, it will result in momentum being lost on any existing leads, and it will result in people making stupid mistakes by

manufacturing

cases instead of DISCOVERING them.

That's my mentality for wanting a week. This day has gone on for quite some time, no? Since May.

So I agree with your statement, however it does not relate to this game. It relates to a game with activity and substantial topics.

In

this

game, more time may result in manufacturing cases, more replacements (leading to more of our time), and ultimately, a mislynch.
----------------------------------

[lobstermania]

Done. I read the game. There were some really interesting things:
Zer0's history of scum-claiming, Cephrir's note, Cephrir's urge for Zer0 to claim, Zer0's vote on Dej, Cephrir's constant distancing from Khamisa, and hohum's refusal to adequately respond to questions asked of him.

First, due to the discussion at the start of the game about Zer0's previous scum-claims in other games, I think his town-claim is a null-tell. This alone is not enough to warrant a vote in my opinion.
Second, I think Cephrir was just trying to feel powerful in being aloof. In reality, it was just ridiculous.
Third, Cephrir seems completely unjustified in pushing for Zer0 to claim. We have already determined that claims from him are meaningless.
Fourth, I can believe Zer0's claim that dejkha is his brother, but if they're both 17 (according to Zer0's profile) I would assume they are both still living at home and interacting day-to-day. This seems a bit immoral to me. I convinced my roommate to join mafiascum a few months ago and Vel-Rahn Koon emailed us to make sure we didn't play in the same game together while using the same internet connection. Fishy....
Fifth, Cephrir seems on the verge of paranoia that people will make connections betweeen him and Khamisa. True, Khamisa has been siding with him and sort of following his lead. But the fact that Cephrir points it out every time it happens and tells everyone it's just Khamisa being scummy gives the impression they are connected. Ironically, for the most part people seem torn between lynching Cephrir or lynching Khamisa.....interesting.
And finally, I understand that disagreements start discussions, but hohum has disagreed with almost everyone on almost every point and then refused to fully address the questions asked to clarify his actions. He stated recently that he didn't want to start discussions based off his most recent posts, so I'm confused as to his true motive....

I know this is vague and unreferenced, but I wanted to get my thoughts on the game posted. I am going to delve back in and see what else I can find.

[hohum]

@AndyTony: If you're going to be too busy you should ask to be replaced or drop one of your other commitments before they come up.

These games (especially one as large as this one) often go on for months, so what's an extra 14 days in the scheme of things?

You're right, players trailing off is dangerous but now we have a responsible mod so we should be able to get by with the normal prod/replace cycle.

As for your point about manufacturing cases, well that's a scum tell. If we catch anyone doing that, feel free to toss a vote on them and pressure for more info.

Cphrir: why do you seem so certain that one of the two of you will be lynched?

[Kdub]

Fifth, Cephrir seems on the verge of paranoia that people will make connections betweeen him and Khamisa. True, Khamisa has been siding with him and sort of following his lead. But the fact that Cephrir points it out every time it happens and tells everyone it's just Khamisa being scummy gives the impression they are connected. Ironically, for the most part people seem torn between lynching Cephrir or lynching Khamisa.....interesting.

Interesting take that I didn't really think much of before. I was thinking that Ceph was voting for Khamisa just to deflect attention onto someone other than himself. Do you have specific quotes or posts that stood out as Ceph being paranoid?

[AndyTony]

@hohum - It seems you understand where I'm coming from but maintain a difference of opinion. I'll opt out of a game when it's neccessary. And I'll decide which of my 4 to drop on my own.

I think there's a plateu ahead. Whether it's a week or three weeks, the topic for discussion is Ceph and Khamisa.

There will be even fewer chances to catch scumtells at this point and it will come down to a deadline lynch or something. It's disappointing to me, if anything.