The Sopranos: A Deadly Game (GAME OVER!)

[zwetschenwasser]

It's impossible to make 0$, right?

[inHimshallibe]

It's impossible to make 0$, right?

Disagreed.

[zwetschenwasser]

y?

[ZONEACE]

For me, it seems, that if I chose to do nothing during the night (not accept a job or perform a night action), then i have no reason to believe I would make more than $0, because, the money i made last night ALL came from my night action, and if I hadn't done that night action, why would I have made any money.

[zwetschenwasser]

The rules say EVERYONE makes a base income.

[rajrhcpfreak]

For me, it seems, that if I chose to do nothing during the night (not accept a job or perform a night action), then i have no reason to believe I would make more than $0, because, the money i made last night ALL came from my night action, and if I hadn't done that night action, why would I have made any money.

i agree. my income came solely from my job. sounds like zwet has a special position.

[zwetschenwasser]

^how do you know this to be a fact?

[rajrhcpfreak]

because you have some reason/bases to assume that everyone gets a base salary.

[Porochaz]

I think raj is correct here.

[MafiaSSK]

I think raj is correct here.

Same.

[ZONEACE]

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs,

players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.

bolding mine.

this iws what is being referenced but I don't know. From the PM I received I feel like I'm pretty high in the organization, and I didn't get anything except for what i got from my action.

[ZONEACE]

woops.

MOD COULD YOU FIX THE TAGS PLEASE

[al_kohaulec]

I just got back from my little "staycation" but I'm still settling, and also putting in oodles of overtime hours to make up for the time I took off. I'll try to read up, but I probably won't be doing much until this weekend sometime.

[SSF352]

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs,

players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.


bolding mine.

this iws what is being referenced but I don't know. From the PM I received I feel like I'm pretty high in the organization, and I didn't get anything except for what i got from my action.

Zone, why couldnt a players base salary be zero? I dont necessarily think its likely, but I see no reason why someone's base salary couldnt be zero. Also, the rule you quoted says a player will be informed of total profit, not how much from which sources.

[ZONEACE]

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs,

players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.


bolding mine.

this iws what is being referenced but I don't know. From the PM I received I feel like I'm pretty high in the organization, and I didn't get anything except for what i got from my action.

Zone, why couldnt a players base salary be zero? I dont necessarily think its likely, but I see no reason why someone's base salary couldnt be zero. Also, the rule you quoted says a player will be informed of total profit, not how much from which sources.

Point taken, i just looked at my pm again and it doesn't say whether my 14k all came from my action. and I realize a bae salary could be 0.

[al_kohaulec]

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

ooh good point.... but as much as i would love to clear myself,

we can't eliminate the three of us that took jobs because only one person in a mafia group has to make a kill at night.

but i would assume that the three of us were "blocked" from making kills for night 1. its some info and since there is 3 killers on the lose right now i would assume that targeting the 3 people that did jobs would be the least of the town's concern.

This post strikes me as a little odd. Especially that bolded part. I think it sounds like a slip. You know that three of you took jobs, and that one person took a kill, so you're also suggesting that there are 4 of you in the mafia.

Vote: raj

Care to try to explain that?

[al_kohaulec]

So, each player can earn money simply based on their position in the family. Also, any money earned by a player will have a portion of it kicked up to his/her superiors. Therefore, no clear information on scuminess can be taken from the list of highest/lowest earners. All we know for sure is the

three listed players

have the abilites (or in raj's case, handicap) that have been listed. I've been trying to come up with an idea on how the information from the list can help us, but I cant come up with one.

Also,

Vote: cjmiller

. Between D1s odd voting without any sort of reasoning, and today's vote of raj simply because he's the lowest earner, I'm thinking you dont really care about who we lynch, as long as we lynch somebody.

O.O
I guess I posted too soon.

Unvote: Raj

After reading this, I realize you were talking about the three

listed

players. When you mentioned the mafia, I thought you were talking about them -_-. My mistake, I should have kept reading before just posting.

[al_kohaulec]

Noticing something weird...

Alko

was the first one to say that raj took a job last night:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

And then raj confirmed it, but not before alko said it.

So, this is probably partly where the misunderstanding came from about earnings and jobs. I remember I just sort of assumed this was right because I didn't actually understand the earnings thing yet. (Yesterday I had several PM's with the mod trying to figure out how earning work... and am not even sure I understand all the special mechanics yet.)

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1)Alko thought listed earnings were only from jobs (which is what I assumed after reading his post and raj's confirming the job). Or some other misunderstanding which led him to think that raj took a job?

or

2)Alko

KNEW

raj did a job last night. If it's this -- how did alko know? This option naturally makes me suspicious of them. I guess there are roles besides scum that could communicate at night, but scum is a definite possibility.

ALKO -- please explain why you thought/knew raj did a job last night?

I was posting quickly before I left to go out of town, so I was thinking "raj made money, so he must've taken a job." If I'd have thought about it, though, this would have been stupid to assume because that would mean everybody would have had to have taken a job, and with three nightkills, we know that isn't the case. As it's pointed out later and in the rules, everybody also has a base salary.

Profit

- In addition to profit from jobs, players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization. After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.

I pulled this quote out, but it doesn't do much good now since somebody else already beat me to the punch.

Noticing something weird...

Alko

was the first one to say that raj took a job last night:

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

You aren't making enough to please the Family. You must be whacked.

So you're voting for a player who chose to make money instead of kill somebody last night?

And then raj confirmed it, but not before alko said it.

So, this is probably partly where the misunderstanding came from about earnings and jobs. I remember I just sort of assumed this was right because I didn't actually understand the earnings thing yet. (Yesterday I had several PM's with the mod trying to figure out how earning work... and am not even sure I understand all the special mechanics yet.)

The way I see it, there are two possibilities:

1)Alko thought listed earnings were only from jobs (which is what I assumed after reading his post and raj's confirming the job). Or some other misunderstanding which led him to think that raj took a job?

or

2)Alko

KNEW

raj did a job last night. If it's this -- how did alko know? This option naturally makes me suspicious of them. I guess there are roles besides scum that could communicate at night, but scum is a definite possibility.

ALKO -- please explain why you thought/knew raj did a job last night?

personally i saw 3 people up there and i assumed we were the three people that were able to do the jobs. i didnt read or hear that everyone had jobs.

i also had an epiphany. i had to have done a job. if we are ranked and other people get your money, people higher than you, then i have to be the low man on the totem pole. so because most of my money is given to others then that confirms that i did the did a job. if i didnt do a job i would have 0 money.


FOS inhim

you vote for me because of somthing alko said? i can only assume that he was thinking like me because all i knew was that i had taken a job.

now there is somthing there, did you take a job alko?
i think alko just confessed to not taking a job.

I'm not sure how the first part of what you said corresponds to inhim.

As for the rest of what you say, I don't see how you assume I confessed to not taking a job? I took a job, I just made more money than you.

I'm going to Worldcon tomorrow early. Might not post until next Tuesday -- sorry about that (might have wifi somewhere in Montreal -- dunno), if so.

I'm a little mixed here.

On the one hand, raj's claim that he gets no income is provable -- just don't take a job tomorrow and you'll show up as having 0 income (and worst earner).

On the other hand, there's Raj suggesting a mass "I didn't have a night action" claim -- which is tres scummy, as scum can lie, and thus what it mostly does is expose power roles to the scum. Not cool.

Moreover, Raj proving he didn't take a night action last night proves nothing except that he's not a serial killer. But I'm not thinking he's a SK -- I'm thinking he's part of an evil group--and one member of an evil group might have done a kill while the rest took jobs. So even if he did do a job last night, this far from clears him.

I think it might be worthwhile to see raj's income if he doesn't take a job tomorrow. If he took a job, and his payout on top of his salary causes him to be the lowest earner, below those who did not take a job, it's highly likely that he has the lowest salary of all players. And I think it near impossible for another player to be the lowest earner if raj does not take a job. I don't think his income will be $0, but if raj comes out tomorrow with less than $3000 profit, then we know that he was honest about having taken a job yesterday.

Then again, this once again would only prove he's not a serial killer. If he was a part of a mafia, he could simply be taking the kill and let the rest of the team make money. So I guess I'm not sure what we would gain from this. I'll still put it out there, in case if anybody else can see a way we can gain something from raj not taking a job tomorrow.

It's true about kicking up money, you can see it in the rules:

*snip*

But also, players earn a base amount:

*snip*

So even if raj is like the lowest guy possible, could he have gotten his base salary and done a job, and still only made 3,000, even if we figure that he had to kick up money and his base might be low?

*snipped* cause my post is getting fat.

This reminds me why I brought up raj not taking a job tomorrow. We know his wages are very very low. If raj agrees to not take a job tomorrow night, and tomorrow he comes up as the lowest earner with $6000, then we know he lied about taking a job yesterday, and is probably mafia.

On the one hand, I find it surprising that somebody who took a job made overall less money than people who did not take any jobs. But on the other hand, somebody who makes so little is the kind of person I would expect to have a vanilla role.

It's impossible to make 0$, right?

I think it's very unlikely, but there is a possibility of it. I very highly doubt that MoS would have made anybody's salary $0, though.

[zwetschenwasser]

Why does everybody insist on saying that they know exactly how much money came from each source of income? We only know total income, correct?

[elvis_knits]

Profit - In addition to profit from jobs,

players also earn a base amount of money each night based on their position within the organization.

After each night is resolved, players will be notified how much total profit they have made so far. The top two earners as well as the bottom earner will be listed publicly. The rest of the rankings will be unknown.


bolding mine.

this iws what is being referenced but I don't know. From the PM I received I feel like I'm pretty high in the organization, and I didn't get anything except for what i got from my action.

Zone, why couldnt a players base salary be zero? I dont necessarily think its likely, but I see no reason why someone's base salary couldnt be zero. Also, the rule you quoted says a player will be informed of total profit, not how much from which sources.

Point taken, i just looked at my pm again and it doesn't say whether my 14k all came from my action. and I realize a bae salary could be 0.

But if a base salary is $0... then it's really not a salary. It's nothing. A salary means money, and if you get no money, I don't know how it can be a salary.

[elvis_knits]

Why does everybody insist on saying that they know exactly how much money came from each source of income? We only know total income, correct?

I only know my

total

.

Looking at special mechanics there seems to be a few ways to make money -- base salary, kick ups, second earner gives 5% to somebody. I do not think we are notified what came from where -- I know I was not.

[zwetschenwasser]

Then why are zone and raj so sure that the money only comes from jobs?

[Porochaz]

I would be interested to find out who else did job 2 last night?

[zwetschenwasser]

not mua

[inHimshallibe]

Then why are zone and raj so sure that the money only comes from jobs?

zwet looking very Town here.

But, I think we're all a little confused. zwet is in the right that we don't know (or, the average player in this game doesn't know) the split between his profit from base, job, or action. I think he's wrong in thinking no one can make $0. I think ZONEACE and raj are in the wrong assuming the base is $0 for everyone (that's what I'm reading, right?)

These are all nulltells, for now.