Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Benmage]

I still think it should be jammer or DDD that sees the noose today.

[GIEFF]

I will summarize the case when I get a chance. It's mostly the fact that he worked so hard to mislynch Cephrir yesterday, without being on the wagon at the end of the day. While trying time and time again to mis-characterize my meta analysis, and tell everybody I agreed with him.

There is also his behavior on day 1 - I summarized how some of it makes a lot of sense as scum in post 378.

He has gone all over the place, suspecting and unsuspecting people left and right when it suits his purposes.



Why do you have a town read on him?

[SpyreX]

Because ultimately the Cephrir scenario was NOT a mislynch. They happened to be town, which sucks, but it was not a bad move at all.

The meta-analysis of Cephrir is a null point because steamboat lurking is going to by nature defy meta (which is bad anyways) and alters NOTHING in most games and doubly so in a mountainous.

Then there is the day 1 "gambit" which really set a tone for me, but apparently different than everyone else. I still hold strong to the trying to catch a scum has allt he earmarks of a perfect town-move in this setup.

I can if necessary get more but yea.

[GIEFF]

I agree that the Cephrir lynch was not a bad move.

But TWO people were lurking equally. In fact, go back and look at each person's last post - Cephrir actually posted in this thread after bcc's last one. The "bad move" yesterday was that people just let themselves be steered without thinking about which of the two lurkers was a better lynch.

My issue with Battle Mage's Day 2 play is the fact that he steered the town toward lynching Cephrir over bcc, mischaracterized my meta by using faulty logic (point #2 in Post 1859), and distanced himself from it by hopping off the wagon before it went through to lynch, then later defended himself with his absence.

And he went so far in defending bcc that he told people to vote for HIM over bcc.



I think you should get more for your BM town-read, because that gambit doesn't seem like much to me. It's really easy for a scum to make that play, too.

Is your town-read on Benmage based mostly on him posting the walls at the start of Day 2?

[SpyreX]

The walls helped. Ben is partially raw gut. I read it and I see no deeper machinations - he's 100% transparent.

I'll go relook at the whole Ceph / Bcc business.

I still want a nice simply summary. Lawyer style.

[GIEFF]

I will make it a nice, formatted, numbered lists, with links to everything, and I will think up a catchy slogan for my case that will stick in the jurors' minds.

[Benmage]

The walls helped. Ben is partially raw gut. I read it and I see no deeper machinations - he's 100% transparent.

Huzzah

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Battle Mage (3): alexhans, Zachrulez, Kmd4390
GIEFF (2): Battle Mage, SpyreX
Debonair Danny DiPietro (1): Benmage
SensFan (1): GIEFF

Not Voting: SensFan, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Vi, jammer

6 to lynch

[Vi]

This is a post to remind everyone that I exist. Unfortunately my current existence is around Post 300. But I'm catching up as quickly as I can.

Deadline is in over 3 weeks. If there is a lynch before I'm finished with my read, there will be hell to pay - probably in postgame though.

'Not sure if it would be a good idea to say much as of yet, so filler, etc.

[SpyreX]

Ohh you've got a lot of worries about a lynch comin up soon ya.

[alexhans]

Interesting how people who suggest that GIEFF was town so he had to be killed by scum are now voting for him. The whole SpyreX-GIEFF exchange looks bad for SpyreX who seems to be wearing a bmlindfold.

This case on BM is rainbows.

Why? Do you remember BM's play all game long? Are you kidding me? Why, EXACTLY, do you think BM is town?
1872: it sure looks like excusing yourself in case of a mislynch...

READ MY POSTS to understand what's the case against BM.

Do you even realize that BM is constantly trying to auto-clear himself?

@Everyone:

Read Battle Mage in ISO so you can understand why you need to vote him. Then do it, please. He has been the Prince of Bullshit all game long. To that we can add the Mayor Fencesitter title.

He voted Mastin.
Unvoted, Voted Me.
Pushed my case a lot. He was "convinced" until people started disbelieving his case.
Then voted GIEFF.
Then, suddenly. Called GIEFF town.
When Mastin was getting lynched. He called Mastin Obv town.
After VP's death. He called VP obv town.
He was CLEARLY against a BCC lynch and pushed a Cephir one.
He was NOT on the Cephir waggon.
He continues to suggest that

Do me a favour and read this.

[jammer]

I will make it a nice, formatted, numbered lists, with links to everything, and I will think up a catchy slogan for my case that will stick in the jurors' minds.

Yay, like to see that.

The whole SpyreX-GIEFF exchange looks bad for SpyreX who seems to be wearing a bmlindfold.

Really?

[alexhans]

Yes. You're ignoring BM's scummyness and you voted GIEFF after some kind of lawyerly contraption where either he should be lynched because he wasn't NKed even though he was was pro-town (you conclude he must be scum then) or he should be lynched because he admits being scummy after a ridiculous discussion where you also add that there's no case against Battle Mage.

[Battle Mage]

I apologize for the length of this post - I have been trying to be succinct, but this point is complicated, and this was the best I could do. Please read it.

-------

Likewise, your assessment of the use of words like "honestly" and "genuine", indicates i am town, because you said i dont use them as scum, and i have used them quite a bit here.

The point is that you hardly ever use the word "honestly" as town, either, and so meta arguments hold no water either way. And so a defense based on this concept is not a valid one.

Lol, you have meta grounds to back this assertion up, i assume? If so, why havent you mentioned them?

You used similarly flawed logic in the Cephrir lynch, Battle Mage, by just looking at one alignment possibility:

You've already seen that Cephrir does not play like this as town. There shouldnt even be an issue here.

But the point that I kept bringing up, and that you kept ignoring, was that HE DIDN'T PLAY THAT WAY AS SCUM EITHER,

pro-town cult notwithstanding

.

notwithstanding? Given the win condition of the protown cult in that game, it was more incentivised by the anti-town than by the pro-town.
As i think we've made quite clear, Cephrir was effectively scum in that game, and played in the same manner as he has here. My meta turned out to be flawed, but thats only with the benefit of hindsight. I won't apologise for lynching someone who was playing how i had seen them play as

scum

.

For example, I've never done in-depth activity analyses before, as I have in this game.

1. GIEFF has never done this before as scum, so he's more likely to be town.
2. GIEFF has never done this before as town, so he's more likely to be scum.
3. GIEFF hasn't done it as EITHER alignment, so meta arguments should be ignored - the behavior itself is more important

Obviously, #3 is the only correct statement.


Do you see my point, BM? Why the logic in #1 and #2 logic is faulty, and how easy it is for scum to just cherry pick one argument and ignore the other?

This entire quote is a false dilemma. I don't really know what you expect me to say, other than:

*facepalm*

Your scumminess has only really come to the fore of discussion today.

Demonstrably false. Ask Benmage, Zach, Spyrex, Sens, jammer, or KMD. You will need to find a different excuse for wondering (or pretending to wonder) why scum didn't NK me - this one won't fly. I have been the #2 or #3 lynch-target for most of this game.

Ooi, whats the largest wagon you've had on you at any point during the game? I'll look at those quotes in a sec.

Whether you like it or not, your meta DID suggest Cephrir was scum. It's not just my opinion-everyone who commented on that, agreed with me, if i recall.

Demonstrably false. Ask Zach. I didn't see anybody else referencing my meta, which clearly showed Cephrir was LESS active as town, but NEVER this inactive, as either scum or town.

Haha smooth. Pick on the ONE guy who actually agreed with you. I will once again say, Zach had a genuine reason to think Cephrir was town. You, did not. If i recall, there were other people who weighed in and agreed with me.

Another question, BM: were you already aware you used the word "honestly" a lot in this game, or did you iso-read yourself to check?

When you said that i had never used it as scum, i took the logical step of seeing if i had used it here. I suspected i probably had done, given the emotiveness of the game.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Your scumminess has only really come to the fore of discussion today.

Demonstrably false. Ask Benmage,

Benmage did not vote for you. He was firmly on the Mastin wagon, and was merely trying to gauge opinion.

Zach,

Zach is the 3rd vote here, but he only voted for you because you in outrage at your opposition to the Mastin lynch. It does not strike me as a particularly serious vote.

Spyrex,

SpyreX was the only vote on you at this time.

Sens,

This is fair. Sensfan apparently considered you to be a genuine suspect on Day 1.

jammer,

Jammer does not vote for you here. You arent even his top suspect. He was voting somebody he didnt even want to lynch.

or KMD.

KMD was one of two people voting for you at this point.

You will need to find a different

excuse

for wondering (

or pretending to wonder

) why scum didn't NK me - this one won't fly. I have been the #2 or #3 lynch-target for most of this game.

BS. Italics marks appeal to emotion. Just in case anyone was seriously considering claiming i was scummy for it.

BM

[GIEFF]

BM, what is the point of your last post? My point is that the majority of the game finds me scummy, so I am a good mislynch. How big my wagon was is not relevant. I am the #2 or #3 person on most people's lynch-lists. There is no need for these long pages of individual quotes - it looks like you are just throwing them out to muddle my point, which is a very simple one.

Also, you flipped out about 2 votes on you, and I think that's probably the largest YOUR wagon has ever been - why do you think 2 votes on you is so likely to lead to a lynch but 2 or 3 votes on me multiple times from multiple people is not?

The point is that you hardly ever use the word "honestly" as town, either, and so meta arguments hold no water either way. And so a defense based on this concept is not a valid one.

Lol, you have meta grounds to back this assertion up, i assume? If so, why havent you mentioned them?

I looked at three scum games and three town games. You use the word (to describe your own thought process) maybe once or twice at most in all 6 of them, but you probably used it 15-20 times in this game. I just wanted to see if:

a) you were aware of using the word so much in this game, and if you would admit to being aware of it.
b) you would try to defend yourself

And you did not answer my question - were you already aware of having used the word so much here, or did you iso-read yourself to check?

For example, I've never done in-depth activity analyses before, as I have in this game.

1. GIEFF has never done this before as scum, so he's more likely to be town.
2. GIEFF has never done this before as town, so he's more likely to be scum.
3. GIEFF hasn't done it as EITHER alignment, so meta arguments should be ignored - the behavior itself is more important


Obviously, #3 is the only correct statement.


Do you see my point, BM? Why the logic in #1 and #2 logic is faulty, and how easy it is for scum to just cherry pick one argument and ignore the other?

This entire quote is a false dilemma. I don't really know what you expect me to say, other than:

*facepalm*

The post is meant to demonstrate faulty logic (although not a false dilemma), in #1 and #2. But I assume this means that you do see why #1 and #2 are faulty? And you do see how you used the faulty logic in #2 to lynch Cephrir?

When judging whether or not an action better fits a player's town meta or his scum meta, you need to look at BOTH alignments. The post above is meant to demonstrate how faulty your logic can be if you don't do this (in points 1 and 2).

Please confirm if you understand the point I am trying to make here.



Also, pro-town cult is not scum. True, they are both more worried about survival, but cults are completely different in that they can grow. And scum was still alive when Cephrir was in the game, so he would still have motivation to scum-hunt - this is NOT the case for scum.

And, as I've said, Cephrir was lurking equally in EVERY game - when he mega-lurked in Freelancer, he was active in other parts of the site.

I don't have as big a problem with your own cult-meta argument as I do with your attempt to ignore/circumvent/change my own meta argument, and then claim that I agree with you about the way you interpreted it.

[Battle Mage]

BM, what is the point of your last post? My point is that the majority of the game finds me scummy, so I am a good mislynch. How big my wagon was is not relevant. I am the #2 or #3 person on most people's lynch-lists. There is no need for these long pages of individual quotes - it looks like you are just throwing them out to muddle my point, which is a very simple one.

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.
3. I'm surprised you didnt read my comments-instead opting to play them down.

The entirety of this is irrelevant however. The issue here is simple. Whether people found you scummy or not, NOBODY had compiled anything like a sufficient case on you to see you lynched. I know this game hasnt exactly been full of well-reasoned quality play, but given how much of a playa you have been, it would take some sort of case to take you down. No such case had been made, nor was in the pipeline-only odd tidbits of scumtells which nobody really cared to elaborate on.

Also, you flipped out about 2 votes on you, and I think that's probably the largest YOUR wagon has ever been - why do you think 2 votes on you is so likely to lead to a lynch but 2 or 3 votes on me multiple times from multiple people is not?

Nobody, with the exception of SpyreX and possibly Benmage, is defending me. If you include people who've expressed willingness to lynch me, as you have done, i expect i have a majority already. I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch. People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped.

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

The point is that you hardly ever use the word "honestly" as town, either, and so meta arguments hold no water either way. And so a defense based on this concept is not a valid one.

Lol, you have meta grounds to back this assertion up, i assume? If so, why havent you mentioned them?

I looked at three scum games and three town games. You use the word (to describe your own thought process) maybe once or twice at most in all 6 of them, but you probably used it 15-20 times in this game. I just wanted to see if:

a) you were aware of using the word so much in this game, and if you would admit to being aware of it.
b) you would try to defend yourself

Ok, if you could list the games you looked at, that'd be helpful.

And you did not answer my question - were you already aware of having used the word so much here, or did you iso-read yourself to check?

Actually i did. Because i don't think you really believe that i remember all my posts by heart, given at one point in the game, i couldnt distinguish between 1 player and another. xD

For example, I've never done in-depth activity analyses before, as I have in this game.

1. GIEFF has never done this before as scum, so he's more likely to be town.
2. GIEFF has never done this before as town, so he's more likely to be scum.
3. GIEFF hasn't done it as EITHER alignment, so meta arguments should be ignored - the behavior itself is more important


Obviously, #3 is the only correct statement.


Do you see my point, BM? Why the logic in #1 and #2 logic is faulty, and how easy it is for scum to just cherry pick one argument and ignore the other?

This entire quote is a false dilemma. I don't really know what you expect me to say, other than:

*facepalm*

The post is meant to demonstrate faulty logic (although not a false dilemma), in #1 and #2. But I assume this means that you do see why #1 and #2 are faulty? And you do see how you used the faulty logic in #2 to lynch Cephrir?

When judging whether or not an action better fits a player's town meta or his scum meta, you need to look at BOTH alignments. The post above is meant to demonstrate how faulty your logic can be

if you don't do this

(in points 1 and 2).

I did do this. I note you havent bothered to quote my explanation. I wonder why...

I honestly (ha, ironic) dont know who you're trying to kid at this point. My vote stands, because your entire line of questionning and alleged case indicates you think i am scum, but you havent deigned to vote for me. You cant use the excuse of trying to ascertain more information about my affiliation, when you've clearly already made your mind up, and aren't really listening to what i'm saying anyway.

Please confirm if you understand the point I am trying to make here.

Also, pro-town cult is not scum. True, they are both more worried about survival, but cults are completely different in that they can grow. And scum was still alive when Cephrir was in the game, so he would still have motivation to scum-hunt - this is NOT the case for scum.

There was 1 scum left. And Cephrir clearly showed no interest in scumhunting. He was happy to be around, and just survive.

And, as I've said, Cephrir was lurking equally in EVERY game - when he mega-lurked in Freelancer, he was active in other parts of the site.

Which proves his lurking was scummy. Again.

BM

[alexhans]

1889: BM... you say that GIEFF had only 2 serious votes and therefore he was not in danger or not scummy before now? How is that consistent with your own foresight that you're doomed because of 2 votes on you?

It seems GIEFF asked this in 1890

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.

So you think that you're in a worst position than GIEFF has ever been? That is now?

I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch.

People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped

I remember reading a user's wiki page that said never to trust you.

BM, do you think GIEFF is scum? I'd like you to do this about him:

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

[alexhans]

TITLE OF THE POST: Why did BM choose to lynch Cephir over BCC?

.

Based on real facts

Author: Alexhans

Your blatant ignorance of a BCC lynch because you had no info whatsoever will always be fishy to me. Let's have a look, shall we?:

I checked since since you first voted Cephir (you hadn't mentioned BCC as town so far...

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

I would appreciate you finding that reason for me, as I prefer voting for BCC if we must do a lurker wagon.

I think you do make a good point though about the need to pressure the lurkers to actually participate.

Ok, will do. In the meantime, wanna fill me in on YOUR reasoning?

BM

Avoids the question and gives it to Zach. Never looked into the "BCC=town" matter.

Zach-why not Cephrir?
Keeps trying to make others give reasons instead of giving them himself.
BM

BM was asked and never answered why he prefered Cephir over BCC.

But seriously, I think we should bandwagon one of them. I would prefer blackcatcontract, as that "character" has had TWO posters lurk with it. And because Cephrir lurks a lot as town.

See, this is something we can both agree on. It must certainly be a good idea then.

*facepalm*

I DID look into why i felt BCC was likely to be town, and it stands, but isnt a meta i can reference. The same was true with Mastin, and you ignored me there. Maybe you can give me the benefit of the doubt this time?

My Cephrir vote stands. Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

BM

Same thing. Doesn't explain why BCC is town and asks GIEFF for proof.

Yeah...

I thought he was scum.

You made a pretty big thing of an argument that he was town. That's another thing that bothers me about you.

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably be on you for as long as I am alive in this game, unless something happens at a critical moment in the game that convinces me that you are town.

is that because you've committed yourself so much that you can't be seen to backtrack now?

I'm not wagonning BCC until we've exhausted the Cephrir avenue. How's that for direction?

BM

exhausted the Cephir av???

Of course i wouldnt have hammered Mastin. Firstly, i was in favour of a far longer day. Secondly, it was SO fricking obvious that Mastin was town. His lurking was not scummy. Just because i couldnt reference the meta, doesnt mean i was wrong.

More on the mastin is town sudden BM change... He was voting me and pushing my lynch in the end of day 1... if you recall... On day 2 he was voting Zach... after having pushed so hard for a Cephir lynch...

And the fact that he says that not being able to reference meta doesn't make you wrong is weird seeing how muc he asks others to do so...

*major facepalm*

Reading this page alone, i feel i should say something along the lines of:

You guys suck!

Though that's directed solely at Alex, Jammer and Gieff (although less so the latter). BCC is an inferior wagon to Cephrir. But as nobody is going to trust me AGAIN, i'm best off pursuing a new route.

Unvote

BM

No comments.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now. I'm not happy with you continually blowing smoke in my direction, but being too damn wimpy to actually substantiate it.

Regarding your question above, yes, i was not intending to pursue BCC as a secondary candidate after Cephrir, because i feel BCC is probs town.

I don't see why my "selectiveness" is any worse than yours. But, as i say, you can either vote for Cephrir, vote for me, or apologise for casting doubt on my allegiances.

Why? WHY? Why is BCC town?

btw, Reading how you tell me I suck and other things I can't see how you can ask me to be respectful a couple of posts later with a straight face.
-----------------------------------------
I

REALLY

encourage people to read BM in ISO and you will see how NOTHING fits, nothing stays the same... attitudes and suspicions switch conveniently.

[Battle Mage]

1. You were not the 2nd or 3rd person on the majority of people's lynch lists.
2. The majority of the players here did not find you scummy enough to lynch.

So you think that you're in a worst position than GIEFF has ever been? That is now?

By far.

I'm always paranoid about this kind of thing, because regardless of my experience, i'm a damn easy lynch.

People misinterpret me all the time, and i apparently give a scummy vibe to those who dont know me. Because alot of the players here are new to me, i expect that hasnt helped

I remember reading a user's wiki page that said never to trust you.

How insightful... /sarcasm

Tell me, will you trust me when i flip?

BM, do you think GIEFF is scum? I'd like you to do this about him:

I'm still not entirely clear what the case on me is. So if you could concisely outline it soon, that'd be good.

I'm not really a "case" guy. I generally just call things as i see them. Everyone else can judge for themselves if they agree or disagree at the time. But, i'll give it a try i guess. We got plenty of time anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

TITLE OF THE POST: Why did BM choose to lynch Cephir over BCC?

.

Based on real facts

Author: Alexhans

Your blatant ignorance of a BCC lynch because you had no info whatsoever will always be fishy to me. Let's have a look, shall we?:

I checked since since you first voted Cephir (you hadn't mentioned BCC as town so far...

Also, both Cephrir and blackcatcontract confirmed during the night that they're still in this game.

This strikes me as massively scummy.

Vote: Cephrir

I think a wagon here might actually achieve something.

BM

Why Cephrir and not BCC?

Actually, i typed out a BCC vote, and somewhere in the back of my mind, i recalled a reason i felt he might be town. Will look into it later i guess. But we gotta start somewhere.

BM

I would appreciate you finding that reason for me, as I prefer voting for BCC if we must do a lurker wagon.

I think you do make a good point though about the need to pressure the lurkers to actually participate.

Ok, will do. In the meantime, wanna fill me in on YOUR reasoning?

BM

Avoids the question and gives it to Zach. Never looked into the "BCC=town" matter.

Zach-why not Cephrir?
Keeps trying to make others give reasons instead of giving them himself.
BM

BM was asked and never answered why he prefered Cephir over BCC.

But seriously, I think we should bandwagon one of them. I would prefer blackcatcontract, as that "character" has had TWO posters lurk with it. And because Cephrir lurks a lot as town.

See, this is something we can both agree on. It must certainly be a good idea then.

*facepalm*

I DID look into why i felt BCC was likely to be town, and it stands, but isnt a meta i can reference. The same was true with Mastin, and you ignored me there. Maybe you can give me the benefit of the doubt this time?

My Cephrir vote stands. Gieff - If you wanna cite some games where he lurked as vanilla town, go for it.

BM

Same thing. Doesn't explain why BCC is town and asks GIEFF for proof.

Yeah...

I thought he was scum.

You made a pretty big thing of an argument that he was town. That's another thing that bothers me about you.

I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably be on you for as long as I am alive in this game, unless something happens at a critical moment in the game that convinces me that you are town.

is that because you've committed yourself so much that you can't be seen to backtrack now?

I'm not wagonning BCC until we've exhausted the Cephrir avenue. How's that for direction?

BM

exhausted the Cephir av???

Of course i wouldnt have hammered Mastin. Firstly, i was in favour of a far longer day. Secondly, it was SO fricking obvious that Mastin was town. His lurking was not scummy. Just because i couldnt reference the meta, doesnt mean i was wrong.

More on the mastin is town sudden BM change... He was voting me and pushing my lynch in the end of day 1... if you recall... On day 2 he was voting Zach... after having pushed so hard for a Cephir lynch...

And the fact that he says that not being able to reference meta doesn't make you wrong is weird seeing how muc he asks others to do so...

*major facepalm*

Reading this page alone, i feel i should say something along the lines of:

You guys suck!

Though that's directed solely at Alex, Jammer and Gieff (although less so the latter). BCC is an inferior wagon to Cephrir. But as nobody is going to trust me AGAIN, i'm best off pursuing a new route.

Unvote

BM

No comments.

Buddy, it's like this. If you don't trust my judgement on BCC, you're better off lynching me, right now. I'm not happy with you continually blowing smoke in my direction, but being too damn wimpy to actually substantiate it.

Regarding your question above, yes, i was not intending to pursue BCC as a secondary candidate after Cephrir, because i feel BCC is probs town.

I don't see why my "selectiveness" is any worse than yours. But, as i say, you can either vote for Cephrir, vote for me, or apologise for casting doubt on my allegiances.

Why? WHY? Why is BCC town?

btw, Reading how you tell me I suck and other things I can't see how you can ask me to be respectful a couple of posts later with a straight face.
-----------------------------------------
I

REALLY

encourage people to read BM in ISO and you will see how NOTHING fits, nothing stays the same... attitudes and suspicions switch conveniently.

My week isn't up.

BM

[alexhans]

1895: Was it necessary to quote the whole post to add one sentence? Isn't that typical of people who want to look like they post without actually saying anything?

Tell me, will you trust me when i flip?

Only if you flip town.

I agree... We've got time...

[Vi]

All right, I'm finally done!

...

...with Day 1.

Briefly, these are my thoughts.

*All of you are on crack.
No, seriously, if I ever need to reference a game where Town lynches itself into submission, I have it right here. Every last one of you is trying your evil best to be completely unreadable. Is it really that hard to

look pro-Town when you ARE pro-Town?

*Mastin was a good lynch.
He was lurking, and this was pointed out multiple times. There were a number of times he could have come back and started contributing, and defused much of the pressure on him (since the strongest basis of the accusations against him was that he was lurking). However, I do not believe that there was a concerted scum effort involved in stalling his wagon half a dozen times - quite the opposite; I think the people who DIDN'T move their votes from Mastin very often to be more likely scum because it was a secure wagon that nobody could really argue against. To that end, I would estimate that there is no more than one scum between {Battle Mage, SensFan, Vi, Benmage, jammer} - all the living players who WEREN'T on the Mastin wagon.

*Virtually all of the Town vs. Town bickering is a result of peoples' playstyles.
By which I frankly mean

play better

. Yes, I'm talking to you. Whatever you're doing in this game, if someone has complained about it, don't do it again. Ever.

*Most, if not all, of the argument is probably generated by Town against Town. Scum are therefore more likely to have been the ones taking a backseat Day 1.
I haven't been paying attention to the dates and times as I've zoomed through the thread, and I acknowledge that there is some legitimacy to not posting relatively often considering this game moved about five times as fast as most games onsite. However, you'll notice that the people who didn't post much didn't get much pressure, and when they did, it just seemed to disappear. Is this partly a result of certain players stuffing their feet into their mouths on a routine basis? Why yes, and these players served to distract from any concerns aimed at the more infrequent posters. (Or rather, these players served to distract from the distractions from the distractions from the concerns.) However, it's also a result of the scum not needing to go to great lengths to stick out. There are people accusing each other right and left with fairly justified rants and implicating themselves in the process. Scum would be best served by staying out of it, except to egg it on in places with a vote and/or snide remarks from the sidelines.

With that in mind, scumpicks at this point are Zachrulez, {DeDæDi, jammer, SensFan}, {SpyreX, Battle Mage, Kmd4390}. This will probably get winnowed down later, but they're listed more or less in order. Thus right now I would dayvig Zach, DDD, and SpyreX in that order.

More to come.

[Vi]

This mountainous setup...just keep waiting for that cop-role to come save you.

Some great posts and zings in this game, but this one was too ironic to pass up.

[GIEFF]

Thanks for calling me a playa, BM, you're the best.

!