Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[hasdgfas]

767 reads to me exactly like scum trying to make a stream-of-consciousness post that shouldn't be considered scummy because it's SoC, but I find that the vast majority of that post is ridiculously scummy, and he hasn't done anything this game that makes me think he's town. If people really want me to go through and find specifics, I can, but I think it's clear.

vote: Sironigous

Also, I only remember seeing "Percy Scum -> Korlash Scum", not the other way around. Can someone point me in the right direction of that if it exists? If not, I feel Percy is slightly higher on the town side of the scale at this point.

Don't like Vino's 764 either, tbh. Withholding(sp?) info from the town as well as complaining about how the kills have gone? Ugh. I'm also not sure how wanting a nameclaim is rolefishing(since it's so blatant) and why that's voteworthy, or what his other reasons are.

[Head_Honcho]

vote: roflcopter

[Vino]

I'm also not sure how wanting a nameclaim is rolefishing(since it's so blatant) and why that's voteworthy

Name claiming was fine. If you remember, I supported it. He pushed for full claims on three people to support a weak conspiracy theory. I wasn't in danger of being lynched and he forced a claim anyway. I suppose role fishing is a weak term for what he did.

Also if you think "withholding info from the town" is bad then why don't you go ahead and claim now? Oh -- because withholding information from the town isn't always a bad thing, that's why.

The way I see it Tar did a lot of damage to the town, and specifically to my potential to help town with my role. I don't think he should be let off the hook for it. I also don't think he should be allowed to direct town's actions anymore like he's been doing.

[hasdgfas]

You've already claimed, Vino, that's different than me claiming now. More info from you can only help the town.

[Vino]

How?

[hasdgfas]

How?

well, as I'm not sure which part of the question you're referring to...

1) It's different than me claiming now because that adds info that can only help the scum, with unnecessary claims(which I could definitely explain further, but I really hope I don't)

2) More info from you can only help the town because you've already claimed, therefore, the scum already know the important parts of your role, and all info you claim gives the town more info to either find out that you're lying, or help figure out the game.

[Vino]

2) More info from you can only help the town because you've already claimed, therefore, the scum already know the important parts of your role, and all info you claim gives the town more info to either find out that you're lying, or help figure out the game.

I posit that I have information that could be used against scum at a later time, does not detriment town to remain hidden, or benefit the town to become known, and could help confirm me (and thus help town) at a later date, if I keep it hidden for now. Therefore I'm not going to divulge it.

[hasdgfas]

How can it do that at a later date and not now if you already have the information, is what I'm trying to get at

[Tarhalindur]

I'm also not sure how wanting a nameclaim is rolefishing(since it's so blatant) and why that's voteworthy

Name claiming was fine. If you remember, I supported it. He pushed for full claims on three people to support a weak conspiracy theory. I wasn't in danger of being lynched and he forced a claim anyway. I suppose role fishing is a weak term for what he did.

Also if you think "withholding info from the town" is bad then why don't you go ahead and claim now? Oh -- because withholding information from the town isn't always a bad thing, that's why.

The way I see it Tar did a lot of damage to the town, and specifically to my potential to help town with my role. I don't think he should be let off the hook for it. I also don't think he should be allowed to direct town's actions anymore like he's been doing.

Wait, so your case for me being scum was because my theories yesterday turned out to be wrong? Being wrong =/= being scum.

Okay, so that's not explicitly your case against me, but that's what it boils down to. I pushed for massclaim because I judged that the threat of outing power roles was OUTWEIGHED by the possibility of breaking the setup (since 2x Cop and a Vig were dead and a protective role outed and all remaining power roles would be midlevel roles at best and some power roles - i.e, unconfirmed Masons - could give us a better idea of where to hunt scum); I made that quite clear yesterday. (Hell, massclaim is still a good idea, especially since Delathi flipped power.)

(Also, at risk of WIFOM, pushing massclaim and similar tends to come from vanilla Tar. Scum-Tar tends not to publicize his conclusions about the setup in all but the most extreme situations.)

Moreover, be clearer: Do you think I am scum, or not? If yes, do you have any reasoning other than "he was rolefishing"?

I won't ask you to claim last night's target until massclaim ends (possibly not at all if I'm dead first).

Thoughts from more thorough read:
- SerialClergyman is almost certainly not a member of the Discontinued faction, given how much he fought with Korlash yesterday.
- Korlash chainsawed like crazy yesterday (defending Percy by attacking SC); by way of contrast, on Day 1 Korlash spent much less of his time trying to rebut his suspect's case (on me). Buddy tell for Percy, albeit a weak one (Chainsaw's only really reliable when the player being defended flips scum, and WIFOM is involved even then).
- Korlash mentioned Percy more than just about any other player who wasn't either attacking Korlash or being attacked by Korlash. Pretty good buddying tell for Percy.
- My intuition found both Percy and Korlash town yesterday unless they were multiscum in the same faction. Korlash flipped scum, and I generally trust my intuition.
- Most important posts in the game, courtesy of Korlash:

Lets see... the spock count is up to what, four? Five?

I'm going to vote: roflcopter because I suspect the vino wagon is designed to set Fishy up for a 1-2 mislynch.

Yeah a random bandwagon is designed for something. So exactly explain to me how this works? A town starts a wagon on another town and then a bunch of other town join it and somehow it's a setup for something? And I'm assuming you are calling both Fishy and Vino town here, because, logically, only town start bandwagons in the RVS and only on other towns.

Your original post seems to suggest that you thought the others joining in were town as well, at that time. You mentioned this to disprove the theory that the scum were jumping on to hasten a bad wagon started by another townie - you basically said that the scum didn't jump on.

I can understand your confusion but you misunderstand me. I was trying to disprove it was a setup by the scum, I was not trying to say scum didn't jump on. Remember I had my wagons confused and thought the vino wagon was up to 8, thusly "a bunch of town" had to already be on it. As I was confused about the wagon my wording was justly misleading.

i can continue explaining it if necessary but like I said, I was mistaken about the wagon which seems like a point both you and TSS are missing.

Take a good look, people.

Korlash was probably telling the truth about getting the Vino and Lamont wagons mixed up (his original comment doesn't make much sense otherwise, especially since he was himself scum and voting Vino). Moreover, his certainty that the large early wagon (Lamont's) was town-driven looks like a slip, especially since he clearly already wasn't paying too much attention to the wagons (I'm decidedly reminded of how Kmdscum claimed in Medieval that an early zwetschenwasser wagon was strongly scum-driven; all four scum, including Kmd himself, had been on the wagon).

Now, take a look at the Lamont wagon at the time:

Vote Count brought to you by Penguins. "Slide!".

Lamont_Cranston (8): Tarhalindur, Flameaxe, Percy, SerialClergyman, Slicey, SensFan, Mufasa, Empking
Vino (4): Fishythefish, Korlash, roflcopter, populartajo
Empking (2): Hasdgfas, Lamont_Cranston
roflcopter (2): Vino, The Silent Speaker
Hasdgfas (1): Qwints
Flameaxe (1): Timeater
Korlash (1): Delathi
SerialClergyman (1): ZazieR
Timeater (1): Tzeentch
SensFan (1): Head_Honcho

Note Voting (3): Santos, Sironigous, xRECKONERx

With 25 alive, it's 13 to lynch.

Lamont flipped town (so the "bandwagon on another town" is correct); in addition, Flameaxe (Kise) and Mufasa have both flipped town, and Serial Clergyman is all-but-cleared of being Discontinued scum (so Korlash probably assumed SC was town).

Now, if we accept this interpretation... Korlash claims that the bandwagon was a "bandwagon started by town on another town". I started that bandwagon, so... by this logic I am unlikely to be Discontinued scum.

Players I am taking a closer look at:
- Percy (trying to tell if interactions with Korlash are result of being scumbuddies or of Korlash buddying to town).
- hasdgfas (intuition says he's Discontinued; was extremely noncomittal during D2 at any rate)

SensFan still needs to respond to the case against him.

[Gorrad]

Vote Count brought to you by Pants Man. "Fighting evil one leg at a time.".

Percy (2): SerialClergyman, Roflcopter
Roflcopter (2): Riceballtail, Head_Honcho
Empking (1): Percy
Tarhalindur (1): Vino
SensFan (1): Tarhalindur
Sironigous (1): Hasdgfas

Note Voting (9): Sironigous, Sotty7, ZazieR, Tzeentch, Empking, Fishythefish, Mastermind of Sin, SensFan, Sajin

With 17 alive, it's 9 to lynch.

[Gorrad]

The following have not posted in the last 72 hours.

Tzeentch - V/LA
Empking - V/LA
Sajin - prodded
Fishythefish - V/LA
SensFan - V/LA
ZazieR - prodded

Prods on V/LA people shall be given at the request of players.

[Vino]

Yes prod all of them. Especially SensFan. Lurking and V/LA players are killing this game.

Wait, so your case for me being scum was because my theories yesterday turned out to be wrong? Being wrong =/= being scum.

Not really. I have no problem with your mass claim, or the fact that you had a big theory, or the fact that it was wrong. What I have a problem with is that you used your clout as the most townly player to bully a bunch of people into claiming and direct the entire game. A ScumTar could singlehandedly destroy town in this game, and a TownTar could do a lot of damage to it just by continuing to do this.

Moreover, I never said I think you're scum. You did a couple scummy things yesterday, but I mostly voted you because I want the directing behavior to stop. Case in point:

I won't ask you to claim last night's target until massclaim ends (possibly not at all if I'm dead first).

I don't give a flying fuck what you ask me to do unless I'm at L-1. Nobody died and put you in charge. Now you're calling for a full role claim, and I don't think we're at LyLo yet. Stick to scumhunting, skip the directing.

hascow, for example, in the case of a claimed tracker or watcher who happened to track/watch me or my target, it could be used to confirm.

PS: Pants man? Nobody claimed vgcats.

[roflcopter]

i'm posting from my phone, i'll be back on a real comp tonight

percy is suffering from a hardcore logic fail, which looks intentional - korlash was not "buddying" with percy, he was defending the ever living shit out of him, doing everything in his power to prevent a percy lynch

for everyone getting their panties in a twist over the difference between if percy -> korlash and if korlash -> percy, of course it goes both waysd, stop being dense

[Gorrad]

V/LA players have been prodded.

[hasdgfas]

- hasdgfas (intuition says he's Discontinued; was extremely noncomittal during D2 at any rate)

First off, do you still trust your intuition after all your thoughts on setup stuff yesterday were wrong?
Second, noncommittal on what, exactly?

[Sotty7]

Kinda fell behind these last few days and I will now be

V/LA from now until Wednesday.

I'll be back, catching up on Thursday.

[Fishythefish]

No longer V/LA (not sure I ever was going to be?)- just busy over the weekend. Will make serious post later tonight.

[Fishythefish]

Apologies, other things came up. I will be caught up in 24 hours time, and stay that way.

[Sajin]

Vote: Percy

fos: head hancho

I think if percy was town he would be helping out more and asking for more contributions rather than taking the backseat.

Flavor of head hanchos claim fits in with one of the kill methods really really well.

[Vino]

Flavor of head hanchos claim fits in with one of the kill methods really really well.

This here is treading deep water. I suggested before that we had a Wulfenbach and I was ostracized for not accepting the night scene, which suggests that the wielder of the death ray was Evil Atom. And indeed, there was no death ray kill the subsequent night. I am doubting that Honcho has a night killing role now, or perhaps it was a once-only role.

[hasdgfas]

Flavor of head hanchos claim fits in with one of the kill methods really really well.

Death ray'd, or something else?

[Percy]

percy is suffering from a hardcore logic fail, which looks intentional - korlash was not "buddying" with percy, he was defending the ever living shit out of him, doing everything in his power to prevent a percy lynch

for everyone getting their panties in a twist over the difference between if percy -> korlash and if korlash -> percy, of course it goes both waysd, stop being dense

You say I'm suffering from a "logic fail", when an interpretation of the facts is what you're really referring to.

Even if I agree that Korlash was defending the ever living shit out of me, doing "everything in his power" to prevent my lynch,

why does that make me scum

?

Defending a townie is a standard scum move. If the person you're defending dies and flips town, you've got a good launching point to try for a mislynch against a townie who pushed for it. If you die before them, it makes whoever it was you're defending look even worse.

Then you go ahead and say "percy->korlash" is the same as "korlash->percy", which is immense logic fail.

Care to try again?

I think if percy was town he would be helping out more and asking for more contributions rather than taking the backseat.

I've been a lot more involved in this game than most today. Also, I've just finished reading after replacing into a 140 page game, and I'm a bit fried.

I'll post more soon. Going to give Tar a thorough re-read.

[SerialClergyman]

Sajin, can you explain what events caused you to do a 180 and decide Percy is scummy after all?

[Empking]

I'm rereading.

[SerialClergyman]

Percy - your point about scum buddying up to townies and defending them would be more valid if Korlahs didn't take every second breath saying something along the lines of 'although I agree with most of the case on Percy' and 'the funny thing is I also think Percy needs to answer this' etc etc.

Those phrases make sense as scum defending their partner, those phrases do not make sense as scum trying to buddy to someone they know is innocent and then force a mislynch on the townie that tries to lynch them, because the obvious objection is that they also believed the case to some extent.