Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[SensFan]

Ben, you think maybe if I throw a small fit and self-vote maybe you clowns would see reason?

Sens, I have more posts than you over days two and three and half the people here seem to think I'm the worst lurker of all-time, you fo the math.

Comparing yourself to SF's to prove you aren't a lurker is comical.. That woulda been bcc tell cephrir he wasn't a lurker.

Again imagine everyone let these people lead this day's direction:
DDD
SpryeX
KmD
SF
jammer

one month later.....1 page.

And this is why I'm not voting anyone, because you seem so desparate for a lynch on DDD. So desparate, that you blatantly misrepresent several people on that list.

For example, this game has been going on for a month, including nights. I was gone a week or so. I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself.

---

I guarantee you 100% that if those people who post the amount I do or less were posting, we'd have 1 or 2 Scum lynches at least.

[Benmage]

I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself..

Its not even your post#...your posts also have such little scumhunting in them, you could have 5,55,or100 of the way you post and its not much of a difference.

I guarantee you 100% that if those people who post the amount I do or less were posting, we'd have 1 or 2 Scum lynches at least.

Are you saying those who post less than you need to post more? Or those who post than you need to post less?

[SensFan]

I still have 55 posts, which would fill more than 2 full pages by myself..

Its not even your post#...your posts also have such little scumhunting in them, you could have 5,55,or100 of the way you post and its not much of a difference.

I guarantee you 100% that if those people who post the amount I do or less were posting, we'd have 1 or 2 Scum lynches at least.

Are you saying those who post less than you need to post more? Or those who post than you need to post less?

I'm saying that people posting more often than once or twice a day are probably posting far too often, and hurting the Town.

[Benmage]

I'm saying that people posting more often than once or twice a day are probably posting far too often, and hurting the Town.

I agree there has been an influx of to much posts, and yes I am part of that blame..which i why i've tried to lessen myself. The list i just mentioned is the people contributing the least. The one month thing was an obvious embellishment. The point is i'd love to see this days direction be led by you "less" active players.

Unvote

lead us almightyones.

[GIEFF]

jammer isn't voting for anybody, either. And jammer's votes seem more based on OMGUS than on scummy behavior, e.g. voting me after I pressured him over assuming 4 scum, or voting Benmage after Benmage said the VP NK implicated jammer.

@gieff Also, spyrex posts just seemed town to me? Could you just make a case on spyrex if you suspect him?

No. This isn't about me thinking spyrex is scum, this is about you thinking he is town.

You've said hardly anything about spyrex all game. You threw a quick, weird, vote on him for his camn vote, and have said basically nothing else. You don't have a null read, you have a town read. So please explain what exactly about spyrex's posts strike you as town.

This slipped through the cracks, jammer. Please respond.

@Camn, what do you think about Gieff's 'cases' on you?
Do you think he is mafia trying to mislynch you or overeager town?

This looked scummy to me when jammer posted it, as he was assuming camn was town. Now that we know camn is town, it looks even scummier. Many of those who thought camn was town thought so for meta reasons. But jammer had no meta reasons at all.

jammer - why did you have a town-read on camn? And why do you have a town-read on spyrex?

Also, why do you have a scum-read on alex?

I didn't like your reponse to this, either. Saying "camn looked town to me" isn't enough. Others used meta to make that determination, but you did not. So what DID you use?

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Battle Mage (3): alexhans, Zachrulez, Kmd4390
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2): Vi, SpyreX
GIEFF (1): Battle Mage
SensFan (1): GIEFF
SpyreX (1): Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting: SensFan, jammer, Benmage

6 to lynch

[Battle Mage]

Fair enough BM. Another question, though - were you already aware of your usage of the word? Or did you iso-read?


Sorry, can't believe I missed it twice. I was way drunk when I read your 303, and missed that part of it. I should go back and read that page again...

wtf?

*lurk lurk lurk*

BM

[GIEFF]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1704030

Hmm....

For this game, you know there to be four Mafia goons and eight vanilla townies.

4 scum in just a 12 player game with an additional restriction on the town.


If StrangerCoug can make a really unbalanced mountainous open setup, maybe we shouldn't be so confident that this closed setup adheres to theoretical balance.


What do you think, jammer and Sens?

[Benmage]

*stare*

That was a no night game....where do you search for this stuff?

[GIEFF]

Oh OK, good... I re-read that post like three times thinking I must have been missing something. Looks like I was.

[Vi]

SpyreX: I know you're reading my posts. Please answer 1954, as not only is there the gist of the most recent case on Battle Mage, but a question that I've been trying to get you to answer for quite the while now.

I show up regularly

How regularly, perchance?

@Zachrulez 1962: Cephrir and bcc were basically equal in scumminess, and I find that Battle Mage's push to get one lynched over the other based on a meta argument (whatever you may think of that argument) betrays a Town mindset.
To contrast, there is a difference in scumpower between Kmd and DDD. I'm grateful for DDD's recent existence, and would like for Kmd to follow suit if possible.

Am I scum, Z?

If the argument is "They are lurking because they don't want to contribute as scum" and they get flat out replaced well that doesn't really serve their win condition as any respectable player doesn't count a game as a win when they get replaced.

I'm arguing against myself here, but this isn't necessarily a failproof line of argument. See B&B-scum in Mafia 89, who lurked his way through five game Days before accidentally not picking up a prod soon enough and getting replaced (by someone else who never posted).

@alexhans 1973: Now that seems to be an uncalled-for post. I would like for you to post a little more though.

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

Better hope Vi isn't a dayvig.

Vi, are you?

No, I'm the Cop. You were supposed to ask me this as soon as I replaced in, though
Also, it doesn't count if the whole sentence is in all-caps.

Ben, you think maybe if I throw a small fit and self-vote maybe you clowns would see reason?

Nah, Benmage was pretty clearly Town before the meltdown.

I approve of Benmage 1999.

FWIW jammer is posting here about as often as his other games.

Less posting from GIEFF and Benmage, starting right about nao.

[GIEFF]

I'm trying, Vi. I'm trying. I will try harder for you.

[SensFan]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 30#1704030

Hmm....

For this game, you know there to be four Mafia goons and eight vanilla townies.

4 scum in just a 12 player game with an additional restriction on the town.


If StrangerCoug can make a really unbalanced mountainous open setup, maybe we shouldn't be so confident that this closed setup adheres to theoretical balance.


What do you think, jammer and Sens?

Not only did Benmage answer you, but I can tell you with absolute 100% certainty that the number of Scum in this game is less than or equal to 3. I can guarantee you that, no questions asked.

[Vi]

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

[SensFan]

@SensFan 1974: Why did you pick those four for the third scum?

A combination of scum reads on them and town reads on several others.
Yourself included.

[Vi]

I'm curious which ones you have the scum reads on, versus the ones you have left after PoE.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I show up regularly

How regularly, perchance?

I check the forums regularly throughout the work day, though I don't have time to write anything more substantial than a paragraph usually. I check the forums again during the night when my more substantial postings usually are and I often go missing from Friday night through Saturday. Of course I haven't bothered to check if that's reality or just my perceptions; I might slack off work more than I think.

[alexhans]

@alexhans 1973: Now that seems to be an uncalled-for post. I would like for you to post a little more though.

It's not. It's a fact. He must be brief or otherwise it's gonna be worth zip, zero, nada. Just look at the past.

And about me posting more. I've posted enough. I've been pretty busy this days. I'm reading when I can and thinking. Meanwhile, you can read the ISO that you skimmed to get to know me better.

Nah, Benmage was pretty clearly Town before the meltdown.

Why?

I don't want to quarrel with SensFan but I don't see how he has collaborated (Did I zpell it write, Mrs.DDD?) much more than DDD... He acts all matter of factly everytime and doesn't quote any evidence or develops any argument.

[SpyreX]

I have absolutely no idea how I missed 1954, but I'll try again to make my stance clear:

I still don't understand WHY you're saying this.
I'm a poor innocent replacement, still scarred from reading 75 pages and expected to remember and fully understand all of it. Please tell me as easily as you can what's going on with this line of thought :bambi:

I've been saying it over and over because its the answer or rebuttal for the "BM and SpyreX are setting me up for a mislynch when I'm not dead because they expect me to die."

Which I do if he is town because of the above.

As for the two cases -

Alex's 1526 focuses on BM being a mastermind behind a quicklynch that he wasn't a part of - if the quicklynch itself was scummy, then those that were a part of it are by nature far more culpable even than someone who cheered it on.

As for GIEFF one of the biggest issues I have and why I keep going back to him being scum can be detailed thusly:

This is completely wrong. You are using faulty logic, the same faulty logic you used to mislynch Cephrir.

See culpability. Further, this reeks of pushing some kind of power case against an all but obvious town and the sheep just eating it out of BM's hands. Whcih wasn't the case.

Cephrir was town so thus -technically- a mislynch. However, that doesn't make it a lynch I would shed a tear over and part of the BM-hunt has been based on that.

[GIEFF]

The logic was faulty. Take that up with BM, not with me, Sens.

[GIEFF]

err, Spyrex.

[Vi]

The lack of Kmd in this topic makes me sad.

@alexhans: Benmage is transparent.
You spelled it correctly (though I'm not related to DDD).

@SpyreX: I'm still getting caught somewhere here.
*GIEFF: "BM and SpyreX are setting me up for a mislynch when I'm not dead because they expect me to die."
*You (rebuttal): "IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo."
...this is the same statement from two different viewpoints.

@Battle Mage and the "quicklynch": Yes, Battle Mage was not voting Cephrir at the end of D2. No, he didn't have the chance to do so once the wagon started picking up speed.

This would be a really good time for Battle Mage to post one of his 25-post marathons.

[jammer]

@gieff Also, spyrex posts just seemed town to me? Could you just make a case on spyrex if you suspect him?

No. This isn't about me thinking spyrex is scum, this is about you thinking he is town.

You've said hardly anything about spyrex all game. You threw a quick, weird, vote on him for his camn vote, and have said basically nothing else. You don't have a null read, you have a town read. So please explain what exactly about spyrex's posts strike you as town.

This slipped through the cracks, jammer. Please respond.

He is concise, and made sense.

@Camn, what do you think about Gieff's 'cases' on you?
Do you think he is mafia trying to mislynch you or overeager town?

This looked scummy to me when jammer posted it, as he was assuming camn was town. Now that we know camn is town, it looks even scummier. Many of those who thought camn was town thought so for meta reasons. But jammer had no meta reasons at all.

jammer - why did you have a town-read on camn? And why do you have a town-read on spyrex?

Also, why do you have a scum-read on alex?

I didn't like your reponse to this, either. Saying "camn looked town to me" isn't enough. Others used meta to make that determination, but you did not. So what DID you use?

[/quote]
Gut-feeling, I can't say I was very sure. Might take into mind, I looked from the case you had on Camn at that time. And I looked at you as scum or overeager town. Doesn't say anything about Camn's allignment necessarily. Did not see Camn as obv town.

@Battlemage, D1 you voted Alexhans, then changed towards others. You gave as reason back then, there is no support for a Alexhans lynch.
Most of the others you voted wheren't close to being lynched as well. Why not keep the vote on your main-suspect instead of changing votes towards (mainly) lesser suspects?

I find it strange zach and gieff seemed to find Vi scummy for predecessors not posting.
Zach, how is flaking out a scumtell?

[Benmage]

@jammer you're not voting. whose summiest for you/who do you want to see lynched?

@Vi hows mini me coming along?

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX: I'm still getting caught somewhere here.
*GIEFF: "BM and SpyreX are setting me up for a mislynch when I'm not dead because they expect me to die."
*You (rebuttal): "IF GIEFF is town he will be a NK before we reach true-lylo."
...this is the same statement from two different viewpoints.

I dont know what else to say then.

I expect GIEFF would be a higher priority kill than any of the dozen lurkers we've had at any given point.

That doesn't translate into me and BM setting him up for a mislynch because a.) I dont know his alignment so how the hell could I be "mislynching" him b.) I'm not scum and thusly not scum with BM so how can this be some kind of collusion to push days ahead a mislynch through?

Not to mention how retarded it would be to get on this train NOW if I was going to push for his mislynch LATER.

So the most basic of premises - the genus gambit or the active gambit if you will is something that I would be concerned with. The other pieces is where it falls apart.