MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (fl's subgame): Game Over

[SpyreX]

You keep talking about your own win condition, and saying that mine is different from yours. I am willing to believe that, because you speak with such certainty, but to imply that your win condition is a town based one and thereby saying mine is not because of how it differs from yours, is a stretch.

I would reeeeeeeally like to see what you would do if you were to switch games. Your whole world would turn upside down. You would be lynched in a second, and then lose your game, because everyone in other games should act like you too, right? You die, they fulfill their win conditions...and so forth. Really, it seems like you are only pushing debates for your own selfish reasons...when you don't actually know how the win conditions are played out.

Those selfish reasons might be SK in nature. Maybe you think that if I am scum...that lynching me will put you in the clear. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you turned up being another elder dragon.

But thats not important right now, because I still find Yos and you to be rather nice-nice to each other in a warped way.

But say what you're implying is correct, about the win con, and that would imply that all town in other games should be treated as scum if they were to show up. They're certainly not of your faction. They are of their own subgames faction. So townies from other games need to die too?

Then that would mean...scum or not, everyone switched needs to die. The whole debate about 'switch scum out and in games to help/hurt the games' would be void. There could be multiple scum groups apart from SKs only. So really...every single person that is switch, would be assumed to be 'scum' to this games win conditions.

That is certainly a xenophobic way to look at things.

That would also mean that everyone by default should support a Budja vote, for he is not one of us.

"ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!"

I don't wish to resort to that yet.

I read this. Then I read it again. It just doesn't make sense. I...think? this is a giant strawman but I can't be sure.

However, I just can't help myself so allow me to retort:

1.)

Oddly enough if our conditions for winning are different it is not some giant leap of logic to assume, therefore,

we do not share the same win condition

. Thus, if I am town (which I am) and you do NOT share my condition you are not-town.

As I find the chances of you being neutral to be minimal you must be not-town-not-neutral-scum.

2.) If I were to be whisked away to a different game my world wouldn't be "turned upside down" by any stretch of the imagination. Much like replacing, I'd go "hey, gimme a minute to catch up" and then I would and it'd be all sweet.

Additionally, and this is important and makes me 100% space sure you don't have my condition

- if I switched games MY condition WOULD match their conditions; the major element of it (the game itself) would be all that changed.

3.) This is where this post really goes off the rails: where, WHERE, where have I even SUGGESTED xenophobia and/or "kill all players that switched into this game because they switched in"? Because that would be stupid. And scummy. And real stupid. Further, how is that a natural implication from anything I've said?

You, sir, are stretching. Quite a bit.

I'd suggest getting that fakeclaim all warmed up, because its time to go on the grill.

CHOO CHOO

Official Warning for this post. Skirting Rule 1

Underline portions are violations of:

<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!


(But I'll roll together both warnings as only one warning, so you know)

[Yosarian2]

I'm quite ready to vote sociopath after that last post of his. It's pretty damn clear he has no idea what the town win condition is.

[Yosarian2]

Actually...

Unvote

Vote: sociopath

His buddy flava flave can go tommorow.

[Yosarian2]

Also...

I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but Yos I really don't like the way you're using a vote to punish SpryeX for something stupid that he suggested.

Interesting that I vote for you and your response is to lie about my actions and vote me.

And by "interesting", I mean you're obvscum and need to die ASAP.

Replace "SpryeX" with "Flava Flave" and you've got the exact same shady punishment deal going on here... except this time Yosarian didn't vote for him. Something's really really fishy here. I think you're scum.

Huh? Care to clarify, quagmire? Are you saying spyrex lied in order to find a weak excuse to OMGUS someone? When?

[populartajo]

Votecount please.

I think Sociopath is at L-1, so Id suggest a claim.

Wait for me tonight for more.

He is. And I'll post the VC later as I'm about to leave

[populartajo]

Yos, some quick question. Are you always that agressive?

[Quagmire]

Is the mod like editing posts or something?

If it's in red, it's me

[Quagmire]

Also...

I can't quite put my finger on it yet, but Yos I really don't like the way you're using a vote to punish SpryeX for something stupid that he suggested.

Interesting that I vote for you and your response is to lie about my actions and vote me.

And by "interesting", I mean you're obvscum and need to die ASAP.

Replace "SpryeX" with "Flava Flave" and you've got the exact same shady punishment deal going on here... except this time Yosarian didn't vote for him. Something's really really fishy here. I think you're scum.

Huh? Care to clarify, quagmire? Are you saying spyrex lied in order to find a weak excuse to OMGUS someone? When?

No, I'm talking about the actions you've done in regards to both SpryeX and Flava Flave that I've referenced earlier in this thread. This has nothing to do with either of their actions; only yours.

[SocioPath]

1.) Oddly enough if our conditions for winning are different it is not some giant leap of logic to assume, therefore,

we do not share the same win condition

. Thus, if I am town (which I am) and you do NOT share my condition you are not-town. As I find the chances of you being neutral to be minimal you must be not-town-not-neutral-scum.

2.) If I were to be whisked away to a different game my world wouldn't be "turned upside down" by any stretch of the imagination. Much like replacing, I'd go "hey, gimme a minute to catch up" and then I would and it'd be all sweet. Additionally, and this is important and makes me 100% space sure you don't have my condition - if I switched games MY condition WOULD match their conditions; the major element of it (the game itself) would be all that changed.

3.) This is where this post really goes off the rails: where, WHERE, where have I even SUGGESTED xenophobia and/or "kill all players that switched into this game because they switched in"? Because that would be stupid. And scummy. And real stupid. Further, how is that a natural implication from anything I've said?

You, sir, are stretching. Quite a bit.

I'd suggest getting that fakeclaim all warmed up, because its time to go on the grill.

CHOO CHOO

Spyrex isn't town, and since I'm at L-1, I can claim and say why at the same time.

Spyrex is the one without the town win condition: I am a

kamigawa vanilla townie,

and I win when all other factions leave the game, etc, etc.

This is a

kamigawa game. I would assume since I am a townie type of this game,

that would lead me to believe that townies from other games have their own type in with their role. Leading me to believe other townies are other factions

So those that are a vanilla townie of the kamigawa type, would want ALL OTHER FACTIONS DEAD. Townies of a different game are of a different faction, and therefore...you would WANT to display xenophobia to new comers to this game: they are stopping the kamigawa win condition as much as scum.

But you wouldn't know this, SpyreX, because you aren't town.

Vote: SpyreX

Official Warning for this post. Skirting Rule 1a

Clarification:

Underlined portions violated:
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!

[forbiddanlight]

"(Exile all spells and abilities on the stack, including this card. The player whose turn it is discards down to his or her maximum hand size. Damage wears off, and "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end.)" - Reminder text, Time Stop

Secret messages from the mod may appear in your post if you ask me a question. They are in RED.

Now updated to this post!

The Fourth Vote Count (aka the "End the turn." Vote Count)

5) Budja (0)
25) SpyreX (1): SocioPath
27) Zazie (0)
28) populartajo (0)
29) Yosarian2 (1): Flava Flave
31) Mufasa (0)
32) Quagmire (0)
33) Porkens (0)
34) Flava Flave (0)
35) SocioPath (5): SpyreX, Porkens, Quagmire, Mufasa, Yosarian2,
36) jammer (0)

Not Voting (4): jammer, populartajo, Zazie, Budja

Votes required to lynch:

6

Sociopath is at L-1

Current Deadline:

August 21, 2009 at ~1:00 P.M. EDT (GMT -5)

First Mod Deadline Review:

August 14, 2009 at ~1:00 P.M. (GMT -5)

[Yosarian2]

(slaps forehead)

Sociopath...if that is, in fact, the role you got, the role quite clearly states that you are town, and that you win if all other factions in the game are destroyed or removed from the game. If you are moved to another game, then you would still be town, and would still win if all other factions are destroyed, only you would then win if THAT town wins and if all other factions are destroyed in THAT game. The type of vanilla townie you are dosn't actually have anything to do with your win condition.

I was assuming sociopath didn't have the town role PM since I thought that was quite clear, and therefore his post on the last page made no sense at all if he knew what the town win condition. But now I think he probably just can't read.

Unvote

Vote: Flava Flave

Revised Decision as of conference with Tar: Modkill, no blacklist. Will post scene shortly.

Clarification:
Underlined portions are violations of:

<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!

[Yosarian2]

Yos, some quick question. Are you always that agressive?

Not always. My playstyle tends to change from game to game, or from day to day, depending on the situation, the position, what I'm trying to do, what I think is most likely to get the best results, and the mood I'm in.

[ZazieR]

Will get to posting tomorrow. Got rather busy.

[SpyreX]

You have got to be KIDDING me.

No way in hells bells. I simply can't buy it.

MAYBE if it was a town PR with a different win condition but the EXACT same one and somehow all of this and that weird xenophobia remark.

I have no words.

Official Warning for this post. Skirting Rule 1

Clarification:
Underlined Portions are violations of:

<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!

[Porkens]

Despite the logic you present, Yos; A vanilla claim isn't worth an unvote.

---

If I were vig, I'd shoot Flava Flave

[Yosarian2]

Despite the logic you present, Yos; A vanilla claim isn't worth an unvote.

No, a vanilla claim is usually worth a lynch.

But what matters here is that we lynch the person most likely to be scum. I had thought that was flava flave. Only after this bizzare comment did I switch over to sociopath:

But say what you're implying is correct, about the win con, and that would imply that all town in other games should be treated as scum if they were to show up. They're certainly not of your faction. They are of their own subgames faction. So townies from other games need to die too?

Now...I donno. I still think that is freaking bizzare, but after that last post, I think he could have not read his role right. I donno.

Sociopath, if you really didn't understand your role PM or what your own win condition is, then why didn't you just ask the mod?

[Yosarian2]

Plus, if you have that role PM, then what was all that babble about "what SpyreX would imply was the role PM" about?

[SocioPath]

Sociopath, if you really didn't understand your role PM or what your own win condition is, then why didn't you just ask the mod?

Its not like I KNEW I didn't understand...I was just under the assumption that a kamigawa townie was its own faction of townies.

Plus, if you have that role PM, then what was all that babble about "what SpyreX would imply was the role PM" about?

I thought that his refusal to read or pay attention to any other game might possibly be due to the following of the same faction assumption...which would make sense if that was true...since that train of thought would be 'oh if only the townies from this game matter, screw the other games, they are all dead to me anyways.'

[Yosarian2]

Well, so long as I am in this game, then only the townies from this game do matter, since because of the win condition, I win if the town wins in the game I am in, and if town or scum wins in another game it dosn't affect me. Now, if I get moved to another game, or if someone from another game gets moved here, then obviously it will be.

By the way, has anyone gone and read Budja's post in detail yet in his "native" game? If so, what did you think about him there?

[forbiddanlight]

So...yeah...you all should probably stop trying to break Rule 1. Whether it says Kamigawa townie or townie really doesn't matter. And it skirts rules. This is a warning at the least and I'm reviewing a few posts to determine if modkilling is necessary. Thread will be locked at this time

[forbiddanlight]

Mod Scene

Another portal appears as Yosarian and a couple others start babbling about Role PMs and townieness, stuff that just doesn't make sense in this plane. Suddenly, That Which Was Taken is returned to the kami, and as Yosarian was that, he fades through the portal.

Sufficiently stunned, it takes you a few minutes to process what happened, but slowly you return to your discourse

Yosarian2, That Which Was Taken, Neutral Survivor, has been modkilled and autolossed for a violation of rule 1.

Yos2 is not blacklisted and day continues. Vote count will be reset though.

[forbiddanlight]

"Sometimes you have to search for inspiration, and sometimes it's right there in front of you." - Flavor text, Twincast

SpyreX and SocioPath were warned for violations of Rule 1.

The Fifth Vote Count (aka the "Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy." Vote Count)

5) Budja (0)
25) SpyreX (0)
27) Zazie (0)
28) populartajo (0)
31) Mufasa (0)
32) Quagmire (0)
33) Porkens (0)
34) Flava Flave (0)
35) SocioPath (0)
36) jammer (0)

Not Voting (10): jammer, populartajo, Zazie, Budja, Flava Flave, SpyreX, Porkens, Quagmire, Mufasa, SocioPath

Votes required to lynch:

6

Current Deadline:

August 21, 2009 at ~1:00 P.M. EDT (GMT -5)

First Mod Deadline Review:

August 14, 2009 at ~1:00 P.M. (GMT -5)

[Porkens]

Good. The only bad part is that we still need 6 for a lynch. Before I did the math, I was hoping that his modkill put us at 5 to lynch.

I do actually think that Sociopath's rant about the unspeakable was too convoluted not to be rooted in a genuine beliefe. Thus;

vote: Flava flave

---

If I were vig, I'd shoot Zaz (what else is new?)

[Mufasa]

Good. The only bad part is that we still need 6 for a lynch. Before I did the math, I was hoping that his modkill put us at 5 to lynch.

I do actually think that Sociopath's rant about the unspeakable was too convoluted not to be rooted in a genuine beliefe. Thus;

vote: Flava flave

---

If I were vig, I'd shoot Zaz (what else is new?)

Agree it was convincing enough to lynch the next scummiest person.

vote Flava Flave

[Mufasa]

and Spryex had two warnings and no kill okay..

One warning, but two posts that were technically infractions. He didn't push the envelope as far as Yos did in my eyes. I was contemplating his modkill as well to be honest