Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[hiphop]

I meant if you didn't know Mae was town. Wording always gets me.

The way you interepted it, oviously I can't answer it any better. I would not of lynched her if I knew she was town.

However, I was against voting for Mae, because besides lurking she didn't have anything that put her as scum. That is why I waited to the last 10 minutes before I voted.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

[Starbuck]

You didn't HAVE TO vote. You never HAVE TO vote unless we are in a lynch or lose situation. If you felt she was town, why did you vote for her?

[startransmission]

I meant if you didn't know Mae was town. Wording always gets me.

The way you interepted it, oviously I can't answer it any better. I would not of lynched her if I knew she was town.

However, I was against voting for Mae, because besides lurking she didn't have anything that put her as scum. That is why I waited to the last 10 minutes before I voted.

I voted for two reasons:
1. She asked to be voted, I think because she wanted to get on the newbie list, because she signed up again as soon as I voted.
2. I was thinking 75% town, but that 25% I wasn't sure of. I couldn't be positive, so I had to vote.

Eh? You were against voting for Mae despite not thinking that she was scum?

You should only vote for two reasons, to place pressure on somebody, or because you truly believe them to be scum and want them lynched. Like Starbuck said- you never

have

to vote.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

And as crazypianist said, asking why someone was NKed is a pretty WIFOM thing to do, unless there is an obvious frame up going on, which I don't see in this case.

[hiphop]

How can I be sure she wasn’t scum? I can’t, so I voted. I agree with one of iamausernames first posts. If I didn’t vote for Mae, I would of given up 22% chance of catching scum.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

Your justification of your vote makes me very suspicious. You started the bw with the second vote on Mae. What do you think people might do so close to the deadline? I made a post saying she should at least vote for who she thinks is the scummiest, how is that suspicious?

FOS:startransmission

[bouchedufou]

I'd like to stay in on the game, but I really don't have a lot of time to spare right now. So I'll just post what I feel from my reading so far, without much back-up.

My first reaction to the night kill is VRK. Now, I know he could have been framed, so rather than go into a WIFOM discussion of why he was killed, could somebody look up iama's suspicions on VRK? And also any other suspicions he had.

My second reaction (and for some reason initially I thought I was being influenced by startran here) is hiphop's claim that he was against voting for Maemuki might have been false. Then I read over, and it appears hiphop just before he votes IS saying that he wants to give Maemuki a chance. And so I read over startran, thinking that maybe he's falsely accusing hiphop and I find there isn't an accusation at all. It seems Hiphop placed that suspicion in my mind with his own post. He SEEMS to be giving Maemuki a chance, with about an hour to go. Did he think she's innocent? Or did he try too hard to make his vote look innocent?

Or am I reading too much into this?

Again, sorry about the lack of in depth analysis and reading-back over previous days. I'd really like to stay in the game, but for the next week, time is limited. So above is my view, and if you guys want me replaced, send an email to Elmo. I've already sent him an email saying that if the majority want to replace me, I'm ok with being replaced.

[crazypianist1116]

I'd like to stay in on the game, but I really don't have a lot of time to spare right now. So I'll just post what I feel from my reading so far, without much back-up.

Well so long as you can post every 3 days, we're welcome to keep you in.

My first reaction to the night kill is VRK. Now, I know he could have been framed, so rather than go into a WIFOM discussion of why he was killed, could somebody look up iama's suspicions on VRK? And also any other suspicions he had.

I have to admit I thought this too but the WIFOM thing pushed me away from it. Then again, VRK really has been acting lurk-ish. He hasn't posted since Day 2 dawn, although I will give him the BOTD because of:

Sorry guys, my class' final exam is tomorrow and I've had students in and out of my office since Tuesday morning. Every time I sit to read I get interrupted, so this is going to have to wait. I still have to get the final exam written and I'm out of time both here and IRL.

To VRK: What did you think of the Maemuki lynch since you weren't around at deadline? Would you have voted for her yourself?

As for iamausername's suspicions of VRK:

Notice how the question was asked and the bolded part of my statement. If I HAD to lynch someone, RIGHT NOW. Frankly I don't see any "good" candidates for lynching at the moment. But we're not under the HAVE TO clause at this time - we still have until Friday.

I'm well aware of the context, and I somewhat agree with the "no good candidates" point, but I don't see that it makes that much difference to my central point. You're still arguing for the lynch of someone that I believe to be town, for reasons that I find scummy.

And yes, we really are under the HAVE TO clause. Factor in the time for the leading lynch candidate to claim, and for everyone else to evaluate their claim and respond to it, and we really need to be coming to some kind of consensus on who that leading lynch candidate actually is, ooh, about yesterday.

As for the jero versus Mae line, yes I do think Mae's lurking has been more egregious because her lurking has been more active than jero's. And since Elmo is replacing jero I have to believe the problems he said he was having were genuine.

You can't really use jeromus's replacement to justify your position before we knew he was being replaced, but otherwise, fair enough.

So, yes, just in case I didn't stress the urgency enough earlier:

WE DO NOT HAVE MUCH TIME. IF YOU ARE NOT VOTING, YOU SHOULD BE.

Unvote, Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

[hiphop]

He SEEMS to be giving Maemuki a chance, with about an hour to go. Did he think she's innocent? Or did he try too hard to make his vote look innocent?

Bouched I realize that you don't have time, but I am going to argue your post.

@Maemuki I should put that as one of my choices. Who do you think is the scummiest player now? As bouched(can I call you this or would you prefer your whole name) said at least point your FOS.

This was posted Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:20 pm, which is a good 8 days before the deadline. I gave her a chance, a whole week chance.
As for my pressuring, I wanted her to post something good. I thought that maybe if she knew she was going to be lynched she might write pages worth, but unfortunately she did not.

I had to work, an hour before the deadline hit was the first time I could get to a computer after my last post.

[hiphop]

Post 146 is where I found my post.

[Petunho]

Now we got two confirmed townies. I'm not going into why iama was killed because I think that doesn't lead to anything else than WIFOM. More interesting thing to follow is the relationships between people. We know that there are two mafia members still in the game. Who are they?

Today we got the information of yesterdays posts and also we have two confirmed townies and also two less people to suspect. I went back and followed how people suspected people, who they voted, how they discussed about each other and looked also up all the vote counts. I got couple red flags from this re-read and I have some kind of hunch of our possible scumbuddies. I recommend also other to look into the last day.

I think it's useful to follow how people put suspicion onto people. Townies don't know peoples alignment and they usually treat people as potential scums, where the scums know their scumbuddy and that will at least on subconscious level influence on their behaviour. Some people were attacking forcefully on some people and skimming trough other people. Why? I see this as not wanting to put any additonal suspicion onto their scumbuddy. Scums don't want to their scumbuddy to get lynched right away. Okay, that could be somebody experienced tactic but I bet it's not the tactics on newbie games and specially on day one!

I also made short summary of the last moments of Day 1.

Mae got all the votes in the last in the last 30 hours.

30 hours before deadline: I replaced in and voted for Mae (1st vote).
27: VRK said he didn't have time.
23: hiphop replied to iama and me.
17: bouchedufou, Maemuki, Starbuck, startransmission, and iamausername got prodded
17: Starbuck replies to prod
16: Starbuck says hiphop is L-2
16: hiphop says this might be his last vote
16: Starbuck replies to me about Bag/hiphop-case
14: Starbuck replies to me that they are aware of the deadline and prod was unnecessary.
14: Mae replies to prod
5: Start votes for Mae (2nd vote)
4: I argue with Starbuck and Mae
4: Starbuck replies to me about Bag/hiphop case
4: My reply to Starbuck about the same case
3,5: iama votes for Mae (3rd vote)
2,5: Starbuck votes for mae (4th vote = L-1)
2: Starbuck asks Mae to claim
1,5: Mae claims vanilla, Starbuck and I want more
1: hiphop returns but doesn't vote yet. FOSes VRK for not posting last proper post.
1h-10min: Mae and hiphop discusses
10min: hiphop votes and lynches Mae (5th vote - Lynch).

What struck in my eye was that the votes speed up in the last moments and the direction turned from hiphop to Mae so suddenly. I gave my vote 30 hours before deadline, but all the other votes piled up in the last 5 hours. Everybody said that they wanted a lynch but the tide turned suprisingly easy on Mae. Why wasn't the case against hiphop pursued more forcefully? I think that the table turned when Starbuck voted for Mae. After that hiphop anly got two votes against Mae's four. Starbuck: Why did you change your vote for Mae and didn't pursue hiphop's lynch?

Our beloved IC is coming out really scummy. He didn't contribute at all in the end (okay he got lot of work to do), but also his contribution after the first accusation against Baggy has been pathetic. The most scummy thing is that he didn't gave his vote to nobody.

No, it is NOT a good idea to No Lynch on Day 1, so let's not suggest it.

And still you didn't vote! Having no good candidates is no good excuse for not voting in the last 24 hours, it's only sign of you wanting to keep low profile. For scums it's of course good thing if Town nails a townie without they voting. Why didn't you cast your vote?

I will do a PBPA of everyone within the next 24 hours, since the deadline is near. I'm not going to write a wall of text - I will give a synopsis of my major suspicions with regards to each player.

Still waiting for this one!

Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

[startransmission]

How can I be sure she wasn’t scum? I can’t, so I voted. I agree with one of iamausernames first posts. If I didn’t vote for Mae, I would of given up 22% chance of catching scum.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline. And the fact that you hammered Mae while admittedly not believing that she was even scum makes me very suspicious.

Your justification of your vote makes me very suspicious. You started the bw with the second vote on Mae. What do you think people might do so close to the deadline? I made a post saying she should at least vote for who she thinks is the scummiest, how is that suspicious?

FOS:startransmission

I don't find your saying that she (Mae) should vote for who is most suspicious scummy. I find you hammering her while not finding her scummy suspicious. Beyond suspicious actually- damning.

And what about my vote don't you understand? I expressed my uneasiness regarding mae very early on. I was in fact the first to challenge her. When I voted her it was close to the deadline and I felt I owed it to the proceedings to vote who I felt was the most scummy before deadline. It was within hours that both you and Starbuck unvoted and voted Mae.

You

hammered her... just before the deadline. And then you roll into day 2 saying that you never found the person you hammered scummy. Shit, this is an easy vote...

Vote: Hiphop

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they never end up playing in depth due to all the other games they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

[Starbuck]

@hiphop

On Maemuki

This is what you said prior to hammering Maemuki (note, the bolding is me emphasizing):

I will not change my vote until the deadline gets closer. Lurking is bad,

but she hasn't posted anything that appears scummy.

That is my problem. She won't give us her opinion, so I will wait a little more. Maemuki vote, please.

It's also noted that you were voting for iamausername prior to switching to Mae.

You say she hasn't posted anything that appears scummy to you, but you follow it up with this:

Should I cast my vote now? She has had long enough time

After this post, we get this

from this game. 25% chance of catching scum with a lynch, 0% with a night kill. I got to stick with the odds.

vote:Maemuki

for a lynch.

@petunho Is being too active a bad thing? Imo it isn’t. By the way did you win that game that which you did what maemuki is doing?

So long maemuki, good luck with any future games.

So you say over and over again that you don't think she's scum, but then you vote based on odds?

In post 250, you then say that you would not have lynched her if you knew she was town. You say all along up to your vote that you think that she is town. Then you say that you were against voting for her because besides lurking she didn't really convey any scummy behavior. Your reasons for voting her are because she asked and because of odds so you HAD to vote.

You have contradicted yourself quite well here.


I really don't like your WIFOM in post 246.

I am also concerned as to why you don't understand how we now have information based on the lynch and NK via the following post:

Can you tell me how we have any more information from before the NK and the lynch until after, besides knowing that mae and iamausername are towns, because their comments only reflect what they think, and they are not scum?

@ VRK - I am not liking this active lurking at all. Please post more, as an IC and runner of the Newbie Queue, I do expect more from you. I do understand that real life issues come up and that you are a college professor. Exams > MS, but that should be over now.



@Petunho - If you go back in my posts, you will see that my second suspicion was of Mae. Her active lurking (coming in enough just to post something small and then leave again) had me feeling that she was in fact scum. Hiphop did not leave my radar and I said that as well. His hammer of her, especially after his contradictions that I found at the top of this post, are extremely scummy in my eyes.

Vote: Hiphop

[Elmo]

Day 2, Vote Count #1

hiphop (2) <- startransmission, Starbuck
Vel-Rahn Koon <- Petunho

Not voting: bouchedufou, hiphop, crazypianist1116, Vel-Rahn Koon.

The

deadline

is Monday 7th September, 22:00 UTC, which is 17 days, 22 hours and 56 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Vel-Rahn Koon has been prodded.

[hiphop]

Two votes on me. You guys sure do like to pick up where you left off.

I don't find your saying that she (Mae) should vote for who is most suspicious scummy. I find you hammering her while not finding her scummy suspicious. Beyond suspicious actually- damning.

I told her to vote. I wanted everybody to vote. Wouldn't you vote for someone if you were in her situation? I told her to post something that everybody could look at. I wanted activity from her, is activity bad for the town? Imo it isn't. In fact I believe that activity is what is the most beneficial to town, it is the best information available. You sound as if you want me to stop from trying to draw people out. Now that is scummy.

And what about my vote don't you understand? I expressed my uneasiness regarding mae very early on. I was in fact the first to challenge her. When I voted her it was close to the deadline and I felt I owed it to the proceedings to vote who I felt was the most scummy before deadline.

It was not your vote that drew suspicion it was your justification of your vote. Don’t you read.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline.

This is the way I interpret it. “I never expected people to jump on a bw that is happening so close to the deadline. People shouldn’t have voted.” To me that is how scum talk.

It was within hours that both you and Starbuck unvoted and voted Mae.

You

hammered her... just before the deadline. And then you roll into day 2 saying that you never found the person you hammered scummy.

Where do you get this hammering nonsense? I wanted her to vote. I would of done the same thing to vrk, except he wasn’t around. She responded to my 227, I responded back. Hammering no, helping yes.

Shit, this is an easy vote...

Ouch! Something scum will say.

Vote: Hiphop

Then we have an omgus situation. However I find you very suspicious.

Vote: startransmission

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they

never end up playing in depth due to all the other games

they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

And finally the buddying. You find Mae suspicious because she doesn’t post anything substantial, yet you say,” never end up playing in depth due to all the other games,” about Vrk. Looks like the same reason to me. In fact it is the same definition of lurking just worded differently. Why is VRK different than Mae? He is not. They both haven’t given us anything good. This is where Petunho comes in. He said Mae was acting the same as he was. Vrk is doing the same thing. That was my problem with Mae, one couldn’t tell if she was town or scum. VRK I can’t tell either, yet startransmission is willing to say he is town. WOW. I don’t believe this.

[startransmission]

I told her to vote. I wanted everybody to vote. Wouldn't you vote for someone if you were in her situation?

Yep. That's an example of the behavior that led me to vote against her.

I told her to post something that everybody could look at. I wanted activity from her, is activity bad for the town?

Oh, I hate activity from the town.

Imo it isn't. In fact I believe that activity is what is the most beneficial to town, it is the best information available.

Brave stance.

It was not your vote that drew suspicion it was your justification of your vote. Don’t you read.

What about my justification don't you understand? And yes, I do read. I urge you to do more reading yourself, it helps with grammar and punctuation.

I voted Mae because I really thought she was scum. I never expected for people to jump on the wagon so quickly... just in time for the deadline.

This is the way I interpret it. “I never expected people to jump on a bw that is happening so close to the deadline. People shouldn’t have voted.” To me that is how scum talk.

I never expected for Mae to be lynched. I voted for who I found the most scummy, and I stand by my vote despite the result. I'm glad people voted, especially you. The timing, your reason, and your statements today is why I am voting for you.

Where do you get this hammering nonsense?

Are you high?

You hammered her.

Where is the nonsense?

I wanted her to vote. I would of done the same thing to vrk, except he wasn’t around. She responded to my 227, I responded back. Hammering no, helping yes.

You would have hammered VRK... if he was more active? I'm not following you. You didn't hammer her (you did) you were helping her? How is casting the deciding vote against somebody that you now say you never really found scummy helping anybody? Especially her?

Shit, this is an easy vote...

Ouch! Something scum will say.

Ouch! It's a fucking easy vote.

Vote: Hiphop

Then we have an omgus situation. However I find you very suspicious.

Vote: startransmission

Fair enough.

As far as our IC, I've written VRK off. May well be scum, but I can't point to enough to warrant a vote. It's just a loss. It's a symptom on this site, IC's often sign up for games they

never end up playing in depth due to all the other games

they are involved in, be it playing or modding.

And finally the buddying. You find Mae suspicious because she doesn’t post anything substantial, yet you say,” never end up playing in depth due to all the other games,” about Vrk. Looks like the same reason to me. In fact it is the same definition of lurking just worded differently. Why is VRK different than Mae? He is not. They both haven’t given us anything good. This is where Petunho comes in. He said Mae was acting the same as he was. Vrk is doing the same thing. That was my problem with Mae, one couldn’t tell if she was town or scum. VRK I can’t tell either, yet startransmission is willing to say he is town. WOW. I don’t believe this.

I was aware when I wrote that there would be an accusation of me defending VRK. To be clear, I'm insanely frustrated that in the last three games I've played the IC's have been close to worthless. People are now turning their attention to VRK, and I'd thought I'd weigh in- and that frustration is hard to disguise. He's been prodded now, and perhaps we'll get a substantial vote... but I'm not holding my breath. So- just because I voted Mae for being an active lurker doesn't mean I'm obligated to vote for all active lurkers in this game. Especially when there is an extremely scummy player (you) right in front of me.

[Petunho]

@Starbuck:

Starbuck: Why did you change your vote for Mae and

didn't pursue hiphop's lynch?

I would need you to answer also on the highlighted section of my question. I want to know why did you start to pursue on Mae's lynch and didn't try still get hiphop lynched? So the bottom question is why did you change your vote?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

PBPA (I may ask redundant questions that have already been answered. This is me thinking aloud mostly):

bouchedufou

:

Post 5/12/13, etc: bouched is demonstrating true Newbie behavior. This is making it difficult for me to determine Newbie-Town, or Newbie-Scum.

53: For a Newbie, 53 is quite insightful. This makes me lean towards Newbie-Town.

88: Confusion from a main lynch candidate getting away due to a replacement (scum tell) or true confusion?

124: Does a lot of focusing on Jero up to this point because of his "lurking", but Mae was lurking just as badly. Why the tunnelvision?

254: Well, this was supposed to be a short and sweet PBPA to get my feelings on people out there, but you can see what it's turned into simply because I haven't been able to play for a week or so. Please do stay, but you may want to take 5-10 minutes a day just to look over the thread and take notes. That way when you get back you can more easily pick up where you left off. Don't turn into me

crazypianist1116

:

crazy's input has been solid; leaning toward a Town read.

100: A notable oddity in otherwise good play. The comment about starbuck not talking about him is off. Up to that point, Starbuck's dozen or so posts had focused almost exclusively on BagSquad, with the intro post being about (from what I'm reading) the scummiest people in her eyes at her entry point. Why do you need validation about your playstyle from other players (see hiphop post 165, below).

hiphop/BagSquad

:
BagSquad was terrible, and thankfully got replaced by an active player.

I don't like the hiphop vote-hopping. I'm also not impressed with the "don't hold BagSquad's actions against me". Why? You may not be the same people, but you share the same role, and therefore if you are scum you will both act scummy, independent of the player.

hiphop claims, in post 87, that he has played in a couple of theme games on another site. Barring the differences in playstyle between the two sites, hiphop shows a lot of confusion for someone who has a couple of theme games (which typically are more difficult due to extra mechanics).

Post 104 is similar. Lots of confusion, yet he's got some experience. This more than anything is the red flag for me - trying to play the Newbie card, but by self-admission is not a Newbie. Maybe a Newbie to this site, but Mafia theory is Mafia theory. I would not expect this kind of confusion from someone who claims to have a couple of games under his belt.

108/146/182: FoS mentioned (I'll come back to this later)

112: vote on Bouched which, for all intents and purposes, is his second random vote. I'd call it an OMGUS vote, but at the point this vote was cast Bouched hadn't voted for hiphop, so I'm more inclined to call it an Appeal to Emotion. He targeted you after you only made one post? So what? You yourself stated in post 122 that you shouldn't get worked up over one vote, and Bouched didn't even vote you! You're reacting to him with a vote for no logical reason. How is voting for someone who "targeted you after one post" when you replaced Scummy McScummerson not getting worked up?

135/140: very sensible. Even though you have a player in mind, you should still be keeping your eye out for the other scum and not tunnel-visioning. This is the kind of thing, though, that doesn't lend the "I'm a confused Newbie" stance any weight.

153: Just because someone thinks another is Town doesn't mean they shouldn't try to poke holes in their logic. If you notice something wrong with someone's logic, it's because they're either confused, or their spinning it. The former isn't so bad, the latter is a scumtell. There is NOTHING that says you can't change your mind about someone's alignment.

165: This is a lot like a person asking a cop to investigate them that night. There's no reason for this. The only people who really care how they look are the scum. Don't worry about how you look - scumhunt. If the other players don't like your play you'll hear about it. Just re-read the last 10 posts or so for an example

182: good post. A vote, a reason, and logic to boot. 187 undermines it though. What changed in 4 hours that you had to move your vote? Why not vote for iama initially?

hiphop, if the two scum didn't vote yet, they wouldn't be as stupid to bandwagon you. Then we would know exactly who they were.

I never used this term before, but I bleieve that is WIFOM. You won't know what the scum did until they are lynched, or the game is over.

This is not WIFOM, this is logic. If the two scum are not on a wagon already at L-2, they will not be the L-1 and Hammer votes, because those two positions are looked at most carefully on the following days. Yes scum want to kill townies, but getting themselves caught in the process is NOT how it's done.

227: From posts 108/146/182, you understand the concept of the FoS. Why this post saying you'll remember it if you already know what it's for? Again, this seems like you're trying to play the Newbie card.

232: Why are you looking for town approval of when to cast your vote?

246: Answered by almost everyone I believe. Don't try to speculate on the Night actions. THAT is WIFOM.

253: This is a good point against Start.

256: Good rebuttal.

Overall, the vote hopping and the "Newbie card" are making me leery, especially when you have very insightful posts strewn throughout your overall posting for the game.

jeromus/Petunho

:

As stated in a reply to iama, jero was lurky on Day 1. I'm sure as hell not about to hold lurking against anyone after what I've been doing for the last two weeks, so any references to lurking by me for now, please take them with a grain of salt.

Since he asked to be replaced, I don't see this as a sign of him being scum trying to avoid posting, although the vast majority of his posts, looking back, were fluff.

Petunho's intro post was fantastic, and if I didn't look at any other posts by him I would say townish. At the time, the pursuit of Mae was warranted and he kept it up, another point in his favor.

Our beloved IC is coming out really scummy. He didn't contribute at all in the end (okay he got lot of work to do), but also his contribution after the first accusation against Baggy has been pathetic. The most scummy thing is that he didn't gave his vote to nobody.

No, it is NOT a good idea to No Lynch on Day 1, so let's not suggest it.

And still you didn't vote! Having no good candidates is no good excuse for not voting in the last 24 hours, it's only sign of you wanting to keep low profile. For scums it's of course good thing if Town nails a townie without they voting. Why didn't you cast your vote?

I will do a PBPA of everyone within the next 24 hours, since the deadline is near. I'm not going to write a wall of text - I will give a synopsis of my major suspicions with regards to each player.

Still waiting for this one!

Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

No vote was cast because, literally, I was at work from 8 am until 10 pm that night proctoring the exam and grading it. The day before I spent 7 hours writing the exam, and I was at work until midnight. I had no desire, at all, to check the game. The only Mafia-related activities I did in the 48 hour period leading up to the lynch was check my games for vote counts and update the queue, and I only did those because it's my job on the site and I have to do them. I didn't know who was lynched until Saturday morning when I checked the thread.

For what it's worth, had I been able and willing to get on I would have voted for Mae. That close to the deadline with no clear candidate you are almost always better off lynching

someone

than no one.

Starbuck/Halidon

:

Halidon had one post, so I'm not even going to bother.

56: Initial post has me leaning Town.

118: Aggressiveness is good. I like the post, but I don't get the snarky, sarcastic read from Bouched that Starbuck is talking about here (see above). Therefore I don't know if this is aggressiveness or over-aggressiveness (yes, I'm going to use your own words against you). start pointed out that there was some defense of hiphop going on in his post 159, but I'm also seeing the same sort of thing toward Mae from post 56, and we know she was a Townie. This tends to point more towards the defense of hiphop being a Townie trying to look out for a mislynch rather than scum trying to buddy up to someone. This post gives me pause, but there are later posts that indicate that this may not be over-aggressiveness.

126/141/142: This is in keeping with the initial aggressiveness in 118. Someone said they were against "teaching" others (this is from foggy memory, I can't find the exact post), but I'm ok with a player scumhunting AND teaching at the same time. I certainly didn't get any of this from Bouched's posts, but different people see different things. Starbuck may be onto something, or she may be scum. I agree with start in that I'm having a hard time nailing down an alignment.

160: I like this rebuttal to start's post 159.

167/170: These responses are actually making hiphop look worse.

At the start of Day 2, Starbuck comes right back to hiphop after switching to Mae to secure a lynch for Day 1.

Overall Town read based on all posts made but there are some things that make me pause.

startransmission

:

28: Very strong Town read just from this one post. At the time I was in complete agreement concerning BagSquad. hiphop hasn't done much better.

80: Start notices Mae's lack of content in her posts and her tunnelvision focus. Interesting not because of the post itself, but because at the start of Day 2 (post 253), hiphop uses it as a main point of attack against start, and throws an FoS, not a Vote. This could be start coming back to finish off a potential victim that he started looking at early in the Day. It could also be that start is Town and did actually see something he didn't like in Mae and therefore naturally returned to her at the end of the day. From previous play, I'm leaning towards the latter and also holding this against hiphop for a shady intro into the Day. This looks more like hiphop trying to use start's actions against him for an easy lynch than start trying for an easy lynch on Mae.

159: Analysis of Starbuck is very interesting. I'm not sure that it holds any water, because I happen to agree with iama that if you think someone is town you should defend them. This will require the most looking into.

General Comments

:

I'm cutting this short because it's loooonnnnggggg overdue. I will post this without voting, check the latest votecount, and then make a 2nd post with my vote in it (or FoS if that person is too close to lynching).

As of now, my top two suspects are:

hiphop - see above.

Starbuck - mainly for the hiphop defense, but as iama said if you think someone is town you should defend them. I'm not sure from reading hiphop's PBPA that he is Town, though, which is what's putting Starbuck on this list.

FoS: hiphop

to turn into a vote if he's not already at L-1. I am happy enough with the PBPA and the reread that I feel that hiphop can be put at L-1 at this point. He is by far, to me, the scummiest player still in the game.



Starbuck: Do you still feel on Day 2 the way you felt about hiphop on Day 1, considering everything that has happened since your initial denfense? How do you feel about your initial defense of hiphop, given the suspicions that others have leveled against him?


Hopefully this covers everyone. I WILL be more active from this point on. I had written something up over the Night phase, but I scrapped it and started over with this because I realized that a short PBPA wasn't going to be enough. I had been absent too long and you folks needed something more substantial. Hopefully this starts to make up for being gone. If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask.

[Starbuck]

@Starbuck:

Starbuck: Why did you change your vote for Mae and

didn't pursue hiphop's lynch?

I would need you to answer also on the highlighted section of my question. I want to know why did you start to pursue on Mae's lynch and didn't try still get hiphop lynched? So the bottom question is why did you change your vote?

I answered your question above. Did you not read my post?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

From the last votecount, hiphop is at L-2.

Vote: hiphop

THIS IS L - 1!!!

There is a big discussion going between start and hiphop at this time. Starbuck and Petunho are also asking questions. All of this needs to be resolved before a hammer vote is placed.

There should

NOT

be a hammer vote anytime soon! I debated voting because I didn't want it to distract from the discussion, but I didn't take a stance that was worth a shit on Day 1 and I'm going to take one now.

I do NOT think a claim is in order just yet. I think start, who has been one of the main leads on the hiphop wagon and who I think is Town should be the one to ask for a claim. The claim should be asked, I think, no later than Monday. That would give us two weeks to process the claim and find a new lynch candidate if we decide to believe hiphop.

[Starbuck]

If you refer to the following posts:

Post 147
Post 191

You will see that along with hiphop, I also found Mae suspicious.

And here is the post where I voted for her and my reasoning behind it.
Post 220


And if you refer to my post 221, I did say that hiphop had not left my radar.




@Petunho - It irks me that I have answered all of these questions previously and you are still asking them. I just looked at myself in iso and found them in less than 2 minutes. Please do your research and not be lazy and have others do it for you.

[Petunho]

Starbuck I have read your posts and the thing I was after is listed below.

Currently, I find hiphop the scummiest. ...

Vote: hiphop

I'm definitely staying with my vote.

204: Petunho votes for Mae

...he (hiphop) has been acting scummy, which is why my vote is where it is.

215: Start votes for Mae

Hiphop, has since, replaced in and has made himself look scummy all on his own

219: Iama votes for Mae

I'm in definite agreement. Maemuki has been the epitome of active lurking. ...

Unvote: hiphop
Vote: Maemuki

You all the way justificated strongly on your vote on hiphop and said that he was The scummy, but when you saw hiphop's lynch fading away, after me, start and iama voting, you went for the bandwagon that was gaining pace.

I wasn't after the reasons why you saw Mae scummy, but the reason why you

changed

the vote. It seems scummy to hop on the other wagon after you posted this on your post 219 where you voted for Mae.

Maemuki is my #2 suspicion

If she was your number two suspicion why did you changed the vote on her from number one suspicion?

For scums it all the same who the town lynches as long as it's townie. You saw that VRK posted his absence, you calculated you coudn't get hiphop lynched, because the voting situation was:

According to my unofficial vote count, this is where we are currently at:


Day 1, Vote Count
hiphop (3) <- crazypianist1116, bouchedufou, Starbuck
Maemuki (3) <- Petunho, startransmission, iamausername
iamausername <- hiphop

Not voting: Maemuki, Vel-Rahn Koon.

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

There was only VRK and Mae who could have jumped on the hiphop wagon, but there was crazy, bouch, and hiphop that could jump on Mae's wagon.

You calculated 1+1 = Lynch Mae.

I calculate VRK + Starbuck = Scumpair.

I just have one vote so I keep it where it is.

FOS: Starbuck

[crazypianist1116]

Petunho, your cases against Starbuck and VRK are weak.

Our beloved IC is coming out really scummy. He didn't contribute at all in the end (okay he got lot of work to do), but also his contribution after the first accusation against Baggy has been pathetic. The most scummy thing is that he didn't gave his vote to nobody.

No, it is NOT a good idea to No Lynch on Day 1, so let's not suggest it.

And still you didn't vote! Having no good candidates is no good excuse for not voting in the last 24 hours, it's only sign of you wanting to keep low profile. For scums it's of course good thing if Town nails a townie without they voting. Why didn't you cast your vote?

I will do a PBPA of everyone within the next 24 hours, since the deadline is near. I'm not going to write a wall of text - I will give a synopsis of my major suspicions with regards to each player.

Still waiting for this one!

Vote: Vel-Rahn Koon

I think VRK cleared up both these points in post 265.

No vote was cast because, literally, I was at work from 8 am until 10 pm that night proctoring the exam and grading it. The day before I spent 7 hours writing the exam, and I was at work until midnight. I had no desire, at all, to check the game. The only Mafia-related activities I did in the 48 hour period leading up to the lynch was check my games for vote counts and update the queue, and I only did those because it's my job on the site and I have to do them. I didn't know who was lynched until Saturday morning when I checked the thread.

For what it's worth, had I been able and willing to get on I would have voted for Mae. That close to the deadline with no clear candidate you are almost always better off lynching someone than no one.

As for yesterday's lynch, it was quite obvious when it was coming down to the wire that hiphop wasn't going to be lynched. 2 more people would have to vote for hiphop and the only candidates were startransmission, Maemuki, iamausername, PEtunho, and Vel-Rahn Koon (keep in mind this was before Starbuck changed the vote). VRK obviously wasn't going to be on. Startransmission had already said he thought Maemuki was more scummy than hiphop as had you. Even if Maemuki had voted for hiphop, there wouldn't have been enough votes on him to lynch. And Starbuck already said that she found Maemuki suspicious.

It's obvious that a lynch on someone suspicious is better than no lynch and that's why Starbuck changed her vote from #1 to #2.

FoS: Petunho

[hiphop]

Post 215 you don’t think I am scum, yet by post 259 you vote for me, how quickly you change your mind.

I comprehend your justification, but it is your justification that is scummy. I answered why I think your justification is suspicious, I don’t need to repeat myself.

You would have hammered VRK... if he was more active? I'm not following you. You didn't hammer her (you did) you were helping her? How is casting the deciding vote against somebody that you now say you never really found scummy helping anybody? Especially her?

She asked me a question about my previous post, I answered. She did it again, and I answered, and so on. How is that hammering? Are you saying that whenever someone answers a question of another player, it is called hammering? I just answered your question did I just hammer you? I must be getting good at this hammering nonsense. Maybe I should just ignore everybody for the rest of the game, than I won’t be hammering you. If everybody wanted to evade hammering (in your opinion) the town would never get anything done. Vrk never asked me a question, how can I hammer him? Let me repeat hammering no, helping yes. That vote was after the helping part, so stop combining things. Starbuck previously ask bouch a question, he answers. Does he hammer?

I was aware when I wrote that there would be an accusation of me defending VRK. So- just because I voted Mae for being an active lurker doesn't mean I'm obligated to vote for all active lurkers in this game. Especially when there is an extremely scummy player (you) right in front of me.

Attack one lurker, and let the other one go. Biggest BS I ever heard.

hiphop claims, in post 87, that he has played in a couple of theme games on another site. Barring the differences in playstyle between the two sites, hiphop shows a lot of confusion for someone who has a couple of theme games (which typically are more difficult due to extra mechanics).

Actually they were easier. Suspicion was drawn to me, but I would character claim, and they would leave me alone. One person said, ”Once again I think hiphop is town, but it is hard to tell because he acts so scummy.” I was always nk in these games. Being this is the first game that I played in without any CC’s I am learning as I go.

165: This is a lot like a person asking a cop to investigate them that night. There's no reason for this. The only people who really care how they look are the scum. Don't worry about how you look - scumhunt. If the other players don't like your play you'll hear about it. Just re-read the last 10 posts or so for an example

I don’t care if someone has a problem with my play style it is how I play. I will keep playing this way.

This is not WIFOM, this is logic. If the two scum are not on a wagon already at L-2, they will not be the L-1 and Hammer votes, because those two positions are looked at most carefully on the following days. Yes scum want to kill townies, but getting themselves caught in the process is NOT how it's done.

So by your own logic, I can’t be scum. Smooth. If that isn’t WIFOM this is.

232: Why are you looking for town approval of when to cast your vote?

That was me thinking to myself, like you do.

Overall, the vote hopping and the "Newbie card" are making me leery, especially when you have very insightful posts strewn throughout your overall posting for the game.

The insightful posts came later in the game. I learned that people don't vote hopping, and I should attack with a reason. Do think I am still a newbie?

Vote: hiphop

THIS IS L - 1!!!

You have logic that says I can’t be scum, and than the vote. Are you not contradicting yourself? Our IC is making mistakes????

[crazypianist1116]

Hammer

[hiphop]

Thanks crazypianist1116 I needed that.

[bouchedufou]

Just a quickie to stay in the game. I'd like to keep voting for hiphop from the day so far, but obviously I can't, so i'll

FOS: hiphop

Plus, I'll expand on this later, but I recall having suspicions that if hiphop was scum, then I would be highly suspicious of Starbuck. Now, we haven't confirmed hiphop yet, but because he seems highly suspicious, I'd like to re

FOS: Starbuck

, just to remind myself later on to reread why I was suspicious before. I might undo that fos though, but I'll leave it there until I've read back.

On VRK. I don't know about accusations of scumminess. Firstly, I enjoyed reading his analysis, and when I have time, I'll probably go over the posts he mentioned and see how my analysis matches up. I'd prefer not to kill off this guy too early since we have quite a bit to learn from him and his analysis of the play. Plus, if he continues to go into detailed analysis, it'll be easier for us to trip him up (although again, unlikely since he's so experienced).

The rest? Beats me. Don't remember enough.