Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[Santos]

I'm getting the feeling of scum teams in the room. That is why I am suspicious of those players.

[Kreriov]

@Santos - That is a good place to start, but please try to express your suspicions more concretely. Right now it really seems like what I was talking about to BC early on. If we allow any player, no matter how townie or scum, not support their votes or statements, we give the scum a free ride. From your statement, you imply there are more than one scum team. Is this true and if so, why?

[zwetschenwasser]

So... what roles are we looking for as scum? Who was in the original death star not part of the Empire? Luke, Leia, Han Solo, right?

[Sajin]

@Santos- Great, can you enlighten the rest of us as to your scum team theories and/or why you think someone is scummy? Thanks.

@Kdub- Who is scum to you and why?

@Zwet- Postulating about setup can only help the scum at this point.

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm considering if a massclaim would work right now.

[xRECKONERx]

@Sajin: I don't think postulating about the FLAVOR hurts so much as postulating about the ROLES does.

@zwet: Surely, you're not considering a massclaim on D1.

[Kdub]

So... what roles are we looking for as scum? Who was in the original death star not part of the Empire? Luke, Leia, Han Solo, right?

Don't like this post. In another game, we lynched scum on D1 for rolefishing, similar to what you are doing here.

Sajin:
No major suspicions at the moment. I am not liking zwet's recent posts, but it's tough to get a read on him. I also think Santos should have explained his BC vote since I am seeing BC as leaning town, but if he's playing on "gut", I can't really say much about it right now.

[MacavityLock]

I'm getting the feeling of scum teams in the room. That is why I am suspicious of those players.

Potential partner arguments already? Really?

I'm considering if a massclaim would work right now.

Um, no, it wouldn't.

So... what roles are we looking for as scum? Who was in the original death star not part of the Empire? Luke, Leia, Han Solo, right?

Don't like this post. In another game, we lynched scum on D1 for rolefishing, similar to what you are doing here.

And I don't really like this post from Kdub. Something about avoiding taking credit for bringing up the idea of lynching for rolefishing reasons. So Kdub, do you think that the reason you lynched in that other game was a good one? Do you think it applies to zwet in this game? Why? What makes it similar to the other game? Did it catch scum in the other game? (If that game is ongoing, feel free to not answer questions as necessary.)

[Kdub]

The game is ongoing so I shouldn't say too much, but basically, someone started speculating about possible town and scum role names based on the flavor, we lynched them, they were scum.

[xRECKONERx]

I think fandango should replace out or something, there hasn't been anything from him in nearly two weeks, other than him saying he'd "catch up tomorrow". That being said: it's not like he's actively lurking, so,

Unvote

. Which makes me free to

Vote: Santos

. Let's take a look, shall we?

Exhibit A: Santos Votes Zwet

He votes him calling this post "active lurking":

This is confusing.

I mean, I can kind of understand it, but then again, I specifically noted that it seemed like typical zwet playstyle to me (I've never played a game with him; I just know about zwet's notorious playstyle from my skims and forum chatter), and never heard a response from Santos. He just left his vote on Zwet, actively lurked (oh, the irony!), and then...

Exhibit B: Santos Votes BC

Boom! Another vote! This one actually has less explanation than his vote on zwet, he just asks for more votes and then throws in a quick "MacavityLock is looking scummy as well". No reasoning. When I pressure him on it, he says:

@RECKONER, time will tell. Its just a gut feeling atm.

Okay. But gut feelings don't come from nowhere. You have to have at least SOMETHING that sets off your gut feeling. A specific wording of a post, a vote, something. And in any case, it's unacceptable to be voting with NO rationale whatsoever when we're this far into the game.

Exhibit C: Scum Teams?

I mean, really. How much more obvious could this post be? He says he thinks there are scum teams (well, no shit, sherlock!), and basically rationalizes that because he feels there are scum teams, he is suspicious of those players. Scum teams exist in pretty much every Mafia game, that doesn't explain anything as to why you are suspicious.

So, yeah. Santoscum is scummy.

[RestFermata]

I'm sorry I've been a bit V/LA with school starting and all--I have a lot of music stuff staring me in the face right now. I'll try to do better, I promise! I'll have something concrete Wednesday or Thursday for sure.

[Santos]

Haha, RECKONER, as much as possible from other games I've played with him, I'm posting like zwet to see if he says anything to how I am posting. I am trying my best to copy his play style but to no avail it seems. My purpose was to see if he would point anything out, but he has ignored me altogether which really begs the question of: why is he ignoring me / is he ignoring me?

1) My initial post on zwet was to try and get a reaction by posting the obvious in that he is active lurking - I got nothing. This is usually what you see when you vote zwet. null tell, right?
2) zwet is voting BloodCovenent.
3) I pull a zwet and say 'more votes on so and so, please' as I've seen in a game or two of his in which I played with him. - no reaction from him.
4) The point of this whole scheme is to try and crack zwet's play style:

Does he ignore those who nonchalantly play around with him?

I've not researched many games of his, I have just observed his play from the games I've played with him, but from the sounds of it it might be a new strategy to try and delve into to: find zwet-scum instead of zwet-nulltell-playstyle?

Interesting theory, right? :p
I don't know; it might be a stretch and a waste of time to do, but I was trying it out.

As for me thinking BloodCovenent is scum still...next post:

[Santos]

Post 130 zwet is asked why he is suspicious of Blood.
Blood FoS's zwet thinking he is scum with Kreriov.
kdub asks zwet why Blood is suspicious to zwet.
Jebus votes Blood.

I don't like his reactions to Jebus entering the game. Coupled with his intent to coast through with his miller claim, I think he's scum.

Blood doesn't give an explanation for his suspicions on zwet. Need more English pl0x :p
RECKONER posts the obvious about zwet's play style in 144.
Kdub asks Jebus why zwet looks town.

Zwet is scumhunting - something scum zwet doesn't really do all that much of.

Blood asks for a post of zwet scumhunting :p No one provides anything.

By this logic, if zwet normally doesn't scumhunt, then wouldn't zwet scumhunting be out-of-character?

BINGO.

When Zwet is town, he does scumhunt.

How do you prove this?

FoS: Starbuck

, you just bought yourself scum points with that post. Later you basically succumb to the fact that zwet is unreadable. Discrepancy much?

Another soul who buys into the belief that scumhunting is only scumhunting when it's not directed at them.

Is no one else laughing at this, but me? zwet is funny.

So, post 159 I try my theory on zwet.
Post 161 zwet ignores my vote altogether.
Jebus dislikes my vote on zwet and FoS's me.
Kdub asks ANOTHER question in post 166...its strange. Kdub's last 3 posts consist of questions to players and he doesn't get any answers; I answered him though. Not sure if this helps us, but Kdub just seems to be asking a lot of questions and not using his good questions to his advantage because he is being ignored big time.

They're wrong. There are a very limited number of people actually capable of consistently getting accurate reads on me.

zwet toots his own horn. He is loving it.

Kreriov comes in and doesn't say anything about me, but about Jebus. Only later does Kreriov turn to me because it looks like I have no content / look scummy.

Macavity lock asks me why he looks scummy. TBH, no real reason, I was just throwing it out there along with my zwet impersonation

Finally, I do not like Santos jumping on the BC wagon with no reasons OR his saying McavityLock is scummy with no reasons.

Here it is. This just looks incredibly opportunistic, IMO. But I will say that my play was scummy, but no scummier than zwet's normal play style.

I mention scum teams. Well, my scum team (sorry I said 'teams' I meant just one, I got must up with my plurals.) consists of: zwet, Jebus and Kreriov. My gut is telling me that one of them if not more are scum. Why?

1) Examples of distancing
2) Questions directed at them are being ignored or are sparsely followed up with.
3) None of them are talking with each other as a townie would. Its hard to provided an example of what I mean by saying that, but there is no 'initiative' in talking it out with each other. Does that make sense? That is why my gut suspicion is on them.

So what now, Santos?

Unvote

Vote: zwet

Gut; I believe everyone can agree there is nothing else to go on and sooner or later we'll have to find out his allegiance. Also, if people think I am being hasty, I have no problem lynching Jebus or Kreriov if those two look like better candidates.

[Santos]

(sorry I said 'teams' I meant just one, I got

must

messed up with my plurals.)

Fixed.
'must' should be 'messed'. I'm tired, please have mercy.

[Kreriov]

@Santos - Interesting. Trying to play like zwet to figure out zwet. A little warning would be nice. You have a small point in that people seem to excuse stuff from zwet that they would not from most anyone else. Using his actions/playstyle to justify yours is not acceptable. I feel you are trying to squirm out of a situation. Instead of giving actual reasons for your BC vote or your McavityLock is scummy statement, you say you are just playing like zwet and then try to put the focus back on zwet. You even ignore the one big thing zwet really HAS done, namely rolefishing. Why did you vote BC? Why did you say McavityLock is scummy? This 'I want to be like zwet' thing is not a reason.

This is what I do not understand
[quote='Santos']
Only later does Kreriov turn to me because it looks like I have no content / look scummy.
[/quote]
Lets see, you have no content/look scummy, so I suspect you, and that makes me..... scummy? Huh?

[Starbuck]

@Santos

Are you completely ignoring my posts? Re-read this and then re-think your FOS please.

I wasn't stating that as my own opinion of zwet. I quoted that because that's how I took Jebus's post.

[BloodCovenent]

I mention scum teams. Well, my scum team (sorry I said 'teams' I meant just one, I got must up with my plurals.) consists of: zwet, Jebus and Kreriov. My gut is telling me that one of them if not more are scum. Why?

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttt!

o_____o

[BloodCovenent]

zwet, what is suspicious to you about BC? What do you think about his miller claim?

I don't like his reactions to Jebus entering the game. Coupled with his intent to coast through with his miller claim, I think he's scum.

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

Or anyone for that matter.

+ Lurker points, now that I think about it.

^This was in response to...

This->

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

I was also FoSing zwet because he said...

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

then I ask,

I'm suspecting BloodCovenant a lot more than Kreriov or RestFermata atm.

where are all are you suspicious of RestFermata?

He says..

I never suspected RF.

So zwet, when were you suspicious of ANYONE?

[BloodCovenent]

Jebus, can you explain why you see zwet as definitely town? He's barely posted any content, so I don't see how you can be that confident about him.

Zwet is scumhunting - something scum zwet doesn't really do all that much of.

show me where.

[BloodCovenent]

So... what roles are we looking for as scum? Who was in the original death star not part of the Empire? Luke, Leia, Han Solo, right?

+scum points.

I definitely want to read more on the case against BC. I know I didn't like his initial 'what you said bugged me' post. (Casting aspersions without support is very scummy IMO.) I also did not like how he took Jebus initial post as an excuse to suddenly vote for me. He should have stuck to his guns. I will have to see what has developed and read why three people are voting him now. I expect to post about it all in the morning when I get to work. Possible some posts as I read tonight as well. We will see. Its good to be back!

so, first you noted that as a null-tell, or a "meh" type of post. Now, it's scum points for that post? The reason why it bugged me, it was extremely confusing at the time for me. I didn't take Jebus's post as an excuse to vote you, his posts actually made sense. And his case against you seemed rather valid.

What's your opinion of getting reads on me?

quit it with the ego trip. You're just stalling in the game.

Why do you suspect me, BC?

you just feel scummy. Mostly a gut read. But among other things, here.

[BloodCovenent]

that's a cheap gambit santos. So who do you think is scummy, besides zwet?

[Kreriov]

@BloodCovenant - So Jebus cutting and pasting Reckoner suddenly made more sense? Sorry, but resurrecting a dead issue simply to try and fake real analysis just doesn't cut it nor does you thinking its some great revelation. And you saying something bugs you IS scummy. I clearly decided it was a null-tell because it was the FIRST such instance. You made a mistake by not supporting your position and I called you on it. Every single person since then who does the same thing should be getting scum points. Was that not clear or did you just forget? Also, did you not read Santos? He has listed various people as scummy, including me, at various points. Usually with no support and the excuse that he is trying to be like zwet.

[xRECKONERx]

I even had the thought "You're playing like zwet" while I was reading you, but since you're not zwet, I took it as a scum tell. To be fair, not many people called you out on your playstyle, so I don't think just because someone DIDN'T call you out on it means that they're scum.

I think it's a very cheap out... kinda like "Well if zwet can get away with tiny posts, then so can I!". Still seems kinda scummy to me, especially since you went and voted him afterward. Also "gut read" is a bit too vague still.

And you spend your whole case pointing out other people's post and only mention zwet like once or twice, then you build up to a zwet/Jebus/Kre scumteam. What makes you suspect Jebus and Kre? Why is zwet scummier than those two?

[Kdub]

I'm getting the feeling of

scum teams

in the room. That is why I am suspicious of those players.

I mention scum teams. Well, my scum team (sorry I said 'teams' I meant just one, I got must up with my plurals.) consists of: zwet, Jebus and Kreriov.

This seems like a potential slip now that you draw attention to it. Why "scum teams" instead of "scum" or "a scum team"? Do you somehow know that there is more than one? If you had simply said you made a typo, I would have an easier time buying it.

Also, you said you would explain why you thought BC was scum, then you come up with a scum team that doesn't include BC? Why the sudden change?

FoS: Santos

[xRECKONERx]

^ I endorse Kdub's post. Let's hear it Santos.