Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Zachrulez]

great... just great... now BM has only 3 votes... People keep leaving his waggon... I wonder why...

SpyreX did some scummy things but is much more active and logical than BM.

Lynch BM.

Tomorrow we'll see who we lynch.

I thought he had 4...

[alexhans]

oh, right... you were not voting for him... my bad...

[Vi]

SpyreX did some scummy things but is much more active and logical than BM.

Does this make SpyreX less likely to be scum than Battle Mage?

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Battle Mage (4): alexhans, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Vi, Kmd4390
jammer (2): Benmage, Battle Mage
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2): SpyreX, jammer
SpyreX (2): GIEFF, Zachrulez
Benmage (1): SensFan

Not Voting: None

6 to lynch, even at deadline (Sunday, August 30 at midnight Eastern Time)

[GIEFF]

Ohh wow its finally happened with 4 days to a deadline.

I am shocked and or awed.

You were expecting me to vote for you?

[jammer]

Jammer, you hopped on his wagon at L-4 and left your vote there for a LONG time, yet weren't interesting in lynching him? Do you think that Benmage wagon classified as what you would call an "easy" wagon?

I was not very interested at the time I unvoted, no. Could call it an easy wagon, yes.

I was looking at Vi as town, yet when he does scummy actions, I notice them. Nobody gets a pass, and you are giving Spyrex one simply because he uses about 10% fewer words to make a point than DDD. That's silly.

I never told you I am ignoring spyrex, just do not see him not vote worthy at this time.

[SpyreX]

Have I been expecting you to vote me?

Of course. You've done that before.

What I was really waiting for was the "case" to go with the vote.

Which you so kindly gave with deadline looming AND the only other viable wagon being someone I'm still sure is town. Even with the avoidance we're seeing.

[GIEFF]

Have I been expecting you to vote me?

Of course. You've done that before.

But why were you expecting me to vote you again before the deadline?

[GIEFF]

I was looking at Vi as town, yet when he does scummy actions, I notice them. Nobody gets a pass, and you are giving Spyrex one simply because he uses about 10% fewer words to make a point than DDD. That's silly.

I never told you I am ignoring spyrex, just do not see him not vote worthy at this time.

But you ignored Spyrex's vote for KMD, while making DDD's vote for KMD the crux of your case. Do you see why that is inconsistent?

[GIEFF]

DDD is an "easy wagon" too, right?

[SpyreX]

No, honestly I was expecting it later in the game.

Because, get this, if you ARE town I don't expect to get NK'd until you are dead.

And if you are are scum like I suspect, I don't expect to get NK'd because it would be too much flak - unless you're hung first.

And you've been tying jammer to me with this no matter how you want to spin it. So, when that doesn't take off you'll come back to good ol SpyreX.

[GIEFF]

And you've been tying jammer to me with this no matter how you want to spin it.

Do you have a problem with me trying to chain-lynch jammer through you?




Benmage's contribution rate has dipped dramatically since he became convinced we all thought he was town.

[jammer]

@gieff, DDD is not really a easy wagon like benmage.

Also benmage posted something along the lines of V/LA.

[GIEFF]

jammer, what characteristics does wagon need to have be be called "easy?"

[jammer]

Late on wagon, and generally accepted good targets to vote by others.(last one is more of a feeling I get with it)

[Kmd4390]

So we are lynching BM, right? I don't like all the 1-2 vote wagons still being there. Anyone on one should be voting BM. If they are so confident BM is town, switch to another 2-vote-wagon. Sens needs to switch from Ben for sure, preferably to BM.

[Zachrulez]

If nothing changes, I will be changing my vote to BM probably on the day of the deadline.

[GIEFF]

Spyrex needs lynching. Make it happen. A townie would NEVER put someone at L-1 right after complaining about his #1 scum-target voting him, based on a case that ANOTHER big scum-target started.

The only way he could explain it was based on external irritation, which is unverifiable, and when pressed on it, he then tried to claim it was in-game irritation, and when pressed on that, said he meant BOTH in-game and out-of-game irritation.

Isn't the much simpler explanation that he is scum, who doesn't really find either me OR DDD scummy? Distancing himself from the L-1 vote by "sighing" and trying to blame the lynch on me?

[alexhans]

Dont lynch anyone other than BM.

I'll read and post soon.

[SpyreX]

I don't have a "problem" with you trying to chain lynch jammer through me. Nothing wrong with playing for connections.

The hypocrisy of it and how sanctimonious you've been about my doing it with you kills me though.

Spyrex needs lynching. Make it happen. A townie would NEVER put someone at L-1 right after complaining about his #1 scum-target voting him, based on a case that ANOTHER big scum-target started.

The only way he could explain it was based on external irritation, which is unverifiable, and when pressed on it, he then tried to claim it was in-game irritation, and when pressed on that, said he meant BOTH in-game and out-of-game irritation.

Isn't the much simpler explanation that he is scum, who doesn't really find either me OR DDD scummy? Distancing himself from the L-1 vote by "sighing" and trying to blame the lynch on me?

NEVER right? Big words. IF I was wrong about you and KMD was scum because the chances of YOU being the bus in that situaton were minimal - then there is a dead scum and a cleared (or dead) GIEFF. Thats win-win.

As for the second part. This actually bothers me. I am not going to fake real-life issues to flake out of a game. That is more than a little insulting.

That's not including (OHH NO SEMANTICS) the fact that last time I checked the basic premise of a sentence like "Some of that was out of game irritation" would clearly imply some of it, in fact, was in game irritation. Silly me and my choosing words that mean the things that I want them to mean based on grammatical structure.

If it comes down to me getting lynched over that (which I doubt) then ultimately that's kool and the gang - no way you'd avoid the lynch tomorrow. Which brings the dominoes falling down.

[GIEFF]

Haha, now you're trying to lynch me through yourself. And DDD through me. The triple-chain.


I wasn't really trying lynch jammer through you, I was just showing you that you can't call me scummy for it, because it's been your MO this game.


I don't think I'm going to convince enough people to hop off BM to lynch you anyway, Spy, so you can go ahead and kill me tonight and just claim that it was somebody else trying to incriminate you.

As for the second part. This actually bothers me. I am not going to fake real-life issues to flake out of a game. That is more than a little insulting.

You're right, I shouldn't have used the word "Unverifiable." I think lying about external circumstances like that to excuse scummy play is akin to cheating, and you seem to have enough integrity not to do something like that.

But the fact remains that the only explanation you could provide for your scummy behavior was external to the game. And your explanation changed over time when you were pressured about it.


You KNOW what you did was scummy - you've admitted as much. So why are you so sure that I am scum because I'm trying to lynch you? If you are town, what makes you so sure I wouldn't avoid the lynch tomorrow?

[Battle Mage]

I'm skimming, but this game is just making me paranoid, given so many people seem convinced i am scum. Alex should probably be lynched as a rule, after my death, just because itd be embarrassing for Alex-scum to get away with a victory after i flip town, and it turns out his entire contribution to the game has been anti-town. I still really really think Gieff could be scum. That's where my money would go right now. Based on the path the game has taken, id say lurkers are more likely town than scum. Sens is town. DDD could go either way, but i suspect he'd have been run up by now if he was town.

But yeah, i'm fine with taking the fall today.

Will try and get more thoughts down before i bite the dust.

BM

[alexhans]

didn't you think I was town, BM?

didn't you?

why are you saying that if I'm wrong people should lynch me?

you've switched and wishy washed so much that your contribution has been much more anti town than mine... You called GIEFF scum. town, scum, town, town, maybe scum, town, scum... I've lost it....

You're not taking a stand? Does jammer qualify as a lurker?

Would you be willing to be lynched if jammer flips town?

[Vi]

As for the second part. This actually bothers me. I am not going to fake real-life issues

to flake out of a game

. That is more than a little insulting.

"Out-of-game irritation" was used to justify your L-1 vote on Kmd, not your lurking behavior. (SpyreX #76)

If it comes down to me getting lynched over that (which I doubt) then ultimately that's kool and the gang - no way you'd avoid the lynch tomorrow. Which brings the dominoes falling down.

The prospect of a mislynch was clearly not enough to justify yourself; apparently you had to raise the stakes with the

possibility

guarantee of a revenge lynch if he's wrong.

People are wrong all the time. Scum are intentionally wrong; Townies, unintentionally so and more often so. By threatening the major proponent of your lynch with full responsibility

that would necessarily include a counterlynch

, you've crossed the line into unacceptability. Never mind that you would necessarily have no way of enforcing that threat unless you had scumpartners to back you up.

I am now willing to support a SpyreX lynch today without reservations. In fact, why not--

Unvote: Battle Mage
Vote: SpyreX

(L-3)

[Battle Mage]

didn't you think I was town, BM?

didn't you?

why are you saying that if I'm wrong people should lynch me?

I'm thinking back to Ready Salted Mafia, as a good example. I was scum in the game, and i played remarkably similarly to how you are playing here. I tunnelled 1 player (i think it was KScope) for the entire game, to the extent that the town just ignored us. But, had KScope died, after me attacking him so avidly for most of the game, i'd have inevitably been lynched next. It's just how it works. So, whilst i attacked KScope for so long, i didnt actually want him dead, and it was a very effective smokescreen, that allowed me to survive to a 3-man endgame, with 1 of the 2 being KScope himself. I lost, but i feel had i had more than 1 decent team-mate, we could have taken it to the hoop with that strategy.

I'm not sure what to make of you, because part of me thinks you sound like you genuinely believe what you say. My vibe from you is protown, but you have to appreciate that it's really hard to keep making the "he's just

an idiot

incorrect" excuse, against someone who continually pushes you, defying all logic, and plays so damn opportunistically. Your tunnel-visioned approach to the game is expressly anti-town. You might have a problem with my "wishy-washiness" but it's only because i'm wary of making a tit of myself, and leading us to a series of terrible lynches. In truth, my caution is one of the most protown things going for me today.

If nothing else, i expect you to take the following 2 things from my lynch, if you are indeed town:

1. Inconsistency is NOT a scumtell.
2. Tunnel-visioning is something you really need to work on in future games.

Would you be willing to be lynched if jammer flips town?

I dont think it matters, because i'm being lynched today. Because, after all your berating, i've completely lost interest with the game, i'm worse than useless at this point. I'm useless, and an easy mislynch. So, as my eventual lynch is pretty much inevitable, you might aswell get it over with today.

If i'm honest, my gut says you are town, and Gieff is scum. But im not certain enough on ANYONE to really have a vote out at this point. Hence,

Unvote

I'll hold off on a self-vote only because it might be informative for you guys to see who hammers me.

For those of you who ARE town, good luck, and sorry i couldnt be of more help.

BM