Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[hasdgfas]

@Cow
Want to respond now?

Sure.
I really dislike people asking "why is so-and-so town?", because the more people know why you think someone's town, the better chance you've signed their death warrant and/or allowed for WIFOM later when they're still alive, and you start going "Is he/she actually town?"

[DTMaster]

@has
I see your point, though I was mainly trying to pick apart Kill's thinking process. It also acts like a red flag for NKs if you follow that train of logic. :<.

I'll take that advice and readjust my line of questioning.

[Cain]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

[DTMaster]

>>;;

I'd much prefer stupid questioning over lurker actions because at least to shows you are making an active effort to catch scum. But noobish argument noted, but since you played two games you should know the basics by now so don't expect this kind of defense to save you all the time.

[Scott Brosius]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

Nobody is going to call you stupid, it's a game. But it seems like you haven't even made an effort, hence my vote. Also saying that people hate you and reacting that way to only 3 votes when you aren't the leading wagon at the moment confirms my vote.

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

[Kill-kill]

1. Yes because ignoring those questions and "playing anti-town" is another argument against Cain if he doesn't answer them. I don't see how questioning would not be beneficial in your case against Cain, not questioning him is much worse in my opinion.

No, the response would be "Well, he hasn't posted at all, it's not suspicious that he didn't answer." Speaking of which, now he has posted, and did not answer any of your questions. Planning to change your vote in the near future?

"I did. I feel he is inexperienced scum. Do you have any reason to believe that he is not scum?"

Show a sense of bias against him.

Shows a sense of a scum-read. Is there some reason you think he is town?

I get a sense that your posts reads as person going for the easy target, rather then actively trying to scum hunt. You have a large lists of people to be considered scum and a small list of weak townie links. It just feels off when you aren't expanding on which of those links are true or not.

If I were going for the easy target I would be voting for saberwolf.

4. Your Scott statement is interesting, can you point out more on this case?

Read him in ISO. See what you think.

a. I don't quite understand how Toro fits into a more townie scenario then the rest of the list. Your busing argument is WIFOM, so it is a weak reason to state. You assume too much when you say they can't be on the same faction (it looks unlikely but yes too soon), nor does it excludes the potential for Toro being on a different scum faction.

I agree it is weak. I said it was weak. And the odds are a hell of a lot better that he is town if we assume that he can't be in at least one faction. For day one, that is good enough for me. I'm not saying I will fight to the death for him, but at the moment he is a town read.

[Kill-kill]

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

What are you referring to?

[DTMaster]

@Kill-kill
1. Actually I was at work when I posted (15 minute break FTL) so thanks for pointing this out. That was a scum-hunting slip on my part.

2. I have no reason to think he is town, but at the same time I have no reason to think he is scum. I have a neutral read on him. This is why I wanted you to outline how his actions are scummy, but it's tough since he hardly posted anything.

Lurking is more anti-town then scummy to me.

3. Oh really? I would consider Cain just as easy because people would use his lurking against him. Sabre at least responds to your posts and reasoning which could back fire against you.

4. I want your thoughts. If I wanted to ISO read him I will when I have time. Please elaborate on your statement. By now you must know I want explicit details about this.

5. Like I said you assume too much. Of course the odds

look better

when you assume a bunch of people to be town, but it doesn't mean it changes. The only real way that this is changed begins on day 2 when we have at least a kill to narrow down the population. Think of this from a statistician point of view, how easily we hit a scum faction or a town faction only changes at the end of each day/night.

@Cain
Answer my questions! Motivation time!

Unvote

Vote: Cain

[Toro]

prod recieved! sorry, had my computer in the shop over the past three days getting fixed! all good now!

wow, three votes, some people really hate me. I have no role to claim to keep me safe, all i can do is tell you im town. The reason i sit back and watch is because this is only my third gama and im just watching, still having very little input, and yeah i know it looks scummy, but if i posted just lots of random posts then chances are i would be suspected of told im stupid. I cant decribe how hew i am to this game, and trying to pick scum tell things up to try and help.

Hope this make things clearer, if not just ask!

With you just posting this and now just bowing out, you

are

stupid.

Sorry to make it all blunt like that. But yeah, and I'll get on this to add some more pressure...

Unvote

Vote: Cain

[Scott Brosius]

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

What are you referring to?

Cow

Comes in, attempts to arbitrate nikanor/DTM argument, and tries to get the discussion back to real scum-hunting

L

Just wondering what you meant by "real scum-hunting"

[Nikanor]

Hey, sorry I haven't posted recently, my other games picked up.
I'll catch up tomorrow or the next day.

[Cain]

Unvote

Completely forgot i had a vote active.

@DT - What questions is it you need answered?

To all with a vote on me, get me lynched and you will see that i am infact a townie, thats all i can really do in my defense, i know it isn't exactly convincing, but this is giving mafia the perfect opertunity to join in and get the deciding vote on my head.

That is all for now.

[ThAdmiral]

Still here. Getting a new modem tomorrow so I should be able to post about once a day from then on.

[DTMaster]

Found in my Post 301

1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.

Since you unvoted I want to edit my question 2 to: Why did you unvote?

Also it's poor in your image to forget that you had this vote active since it suggests that you haven't been keeping up with the game.

The other thing is you are self imposing a scummy/lurker image (if you are townie) to inflict back at scum hopping on "an easy bandwagon". The issue here is the reasoning looks a lot like OMGUS, which is a weak argument to fight back, rather then opportunism. Also your recent statement reads as AtE, where you full claimed as townie in response to the new pressure.

More scumhunting less AtE nonsense please. (if you are townie)

[Kill-kill]

Kill-kill, are you saying the DTM/nik argument was useless?

What are you referring to?

Cow

Comes in, attempts to arbitrate nikanor/DTM argument, and tries to get the discussion back to real scum-hunting

L

Just wondering what you meant by "real scum-hunting"

Arguing about whether or not he "defended Mastin" was not productive to the extent they took it to. It was time for that track to end.

[Cain]

Found in my Post 301

1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.

Since you unvoted I want to edit my question 2 to: Why did you unvote?

Also it's poor in your image to forget that you had this vote active since it suggests that you haven't been keeping up with the game.

The other thing is you are self imposing a scummy/lurker image (if you are townie) to inflict back at scum hopping on "an easy bandwagon". The issue here is the reasoning looks a lot like OMGUS, which is a weak argument to fight back, rather then opportunism. Also your recent statement reads as AtE, where you full claimed as townie in response to the new pressure.

More scumhunting less AtE nonsense please. (if you are townie)

what is OMGUS and AtE?

[Toro]

Found in my Post 301

1. Both: What are your current town reads?
2. Cain: Are you still satisfied with your vote on Lumi/Mastin? It's past the RVS now, so if you still like the vote why are you keeping it? What's your case on Lumi?
3. Both: What do you have to say in defense to your lurkerish actions.

Since you unvoted I want to edit my question 2 to: Why did you unvote?

Also it's poor in your image to forget that you had this vote active since it suggests that you haven't been keeping up with the game.

The other thing is you are self imposing a scummy/lurker image (if you are townie) to inflict back at scum hopping on "an easy bandwagon". The issue here is the reasoning looks a lot like OMGUS, which is a weak argument to fight back, rather then opportunism. Also your recent statement reads as AtE, where you full claimed as townie in response to the new pressure.

More scumhunting less AtE nonsense please. (if you are townie)

what is OMGUS and AtE?

Check the wiki.

[DTMaster]

I'll answer you.

OMGUS is Oh My God You Suck. It's an abbreviated form of the argument that: you voted against the person who is voting for you without a solid case. This makes your vote a very weak one and is potentially a scum-tell.

AtE is known as Appeal to Emotion where you try and literally appeal to our emotions in your argument. Rather then use logic and reasoning you are literally using emotion to present your argument.

For example your comment oh how this is your third game can be interpreted as AtE since you aren't defending your lurker actions with positive reasons. The idea that "this is your third game" implies a request to take it easier on you when the pressure is on you because you are newbie, rather then you trying to fully convince the township with a logic case.

[Cain]

thank you.

I dont think im doing a AtE, i have no logical explanation as to why i was lurking, i was genuinly just watching to see what would unfold. I admit its kinda stupid but i couldnt think of another way to do it without sounding stupid posting dumb ass messages, but as you stated earlier, the messages would have been the better option, which is why i am more active now.

Also the OMGUS, i agree, i did vote the guy because he voted me, i just thought thats what you did, kinda if someone slaps you, you slap them right back. Probably a stupid way of looking at things.

Jope this explains things a little better.

@Toro.

What were YOUR reasons on voting for me? Just to add more pressure? Got something a bit more substantial?

@Kill Kill

What makes you so certain of my scuminess? Other than what i have already explained? Maybe you and Toro are in cahoots?

[Toro]

Christ man, read the thread and you will find my reasons.

[DTMaster]

@Cain

1. Lurking is really bad if you don't have a legit reason to show why you couldn't contribute for a long time. But I'm more willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

2. That is bad play if you don't have a reasonable case to fight back.

3. Toro is right, read his post.

4. Now that you know AtE and OMGUS answer my questions.

My vote stays until you answer them.

[Cain]

check post 343, is that not me answering the OMGUS and AtE

[ZazieR]

Back, will be analysing what I''ve missed now.
(Pre-warning, as all of you know what will be coming)

[Scott Brosius]

Zazier's wall of fun obviously.

Any Prods needed? hohum hasn't posted in forever.

[ZazieR]

Post 262

In response to Post 103:
I did mean that quote. And no, you can''t say it''s a sentence as there were two I prefer to mention paragraphs. Otherwise, I might have to say ''the third line of the second paragraph in Post something''. Now that''s confusing >.<
Anyway, you state that you ignored the smiley. Any reason why?

As for Post 122, I wanted an elaboration of Point 3. Now that I have it, I''ll look at it in context later on.

At your response of Post 127, you state that you have said before that the wagon wasn''t scummy. Can you link me to the first time you said this?

Then comes the part where you (Once again) accuse me wrong about being a spammer and using it to increase my total amount of posts. I''ll look for the link where I''ve explained why later. It''s somewhere at MD.

Following is Post 180.
You did answer for Saber in it. Sure, they may not have been his thoughts. But when you answer before the player at whom the question is aimed, he can use the answer you''ve given for his own.
And no, this isn''t a scumslip.

Post 196. Can you elaborate on the first point?

As answer towards Post 205, by stating who was scummy in the first part of my read, I''d know at whom to look. Neutrals do get attention from me at times, but I look more at those who are scummy to me. As I wasn''t done yet, this could have changed if they had done something scummy later on. So I wrote a half-way through list to remind me who might need more attention depending on what they will write.

As for Post 225, if one of you or Saber turn up scum, I will look at the other more closely. More so if Saber turns up scum than you (DT). That''s what it implies.

And last, Post 232. Do you want to respond to why you don''t dislike or less dislike what Saber did, based upon my reasoning mentioned in Post 249?
Also, what''s the spectrum idea?


(P.S. My posts may take more time today. Let''s keep it at that I''ve found something, better said somebody, who comes before MS ^.^)