Mini 829 - Internal Struggle Mafia (Over)

[DTMaster]

EDIT: Read the recent post. Awesome anti-town play /sarcasm. Though it's probably better to say:

Risk vs Reward

. The thing is this is a lot like IK's marytr argument.

Unvote

Too early to be L-1

[Paradoxombie]

Yeah, I feel like Toro is trying to pull an IK.

[DTMaster]

Minus the fact that he's not martyring himself for a case, hes martyring himself for a point. :s

[hiphop]

Toro how come you are not answering questions? If you do not want to play, than why are you still posting?

[RedCoyote]

I think Toro is bluffing; I've had bad vibes from him all game. I think the town has room to maneuver a little more freely. I think it's all just a little

too

coincidental that DRK was shot, blocked, and happened to be the mafia submitting the kills. While it's possible that there is a scum roleblocker in addition to Toro, what made him block jason over don?

No, it just doesn't all add up. A lot of "just happened" to pick the perfect person.

Vote: Toro

[jasonT1981]

gonna catch up in a bit, had a hectic few days sorry... bloody ex girlfriends will be the death of me I swear!

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #28:

Paradoxombie (1)

-

Zachrulez

toro (5)

-

ryan2754, don_johnson, Paradoxombie, toro, RedCoyote

Not Voting (4)

-

jasonT1981, hiphop, icemanE, DTMaster

Happiness with Posting Level:

HAPPY

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

[Zachrulez]

Hmmmm, a reread of Toro shows him going from finding Hiphop the most suspicious player to outright defending his actions on day 1.

I'm curious as to the thought process which prompted this change in opinion from Toro.

[jasonT1981]

First off I find it really hard to grasp the one person Toro roleblocked is now dead.... I suspect him to be lying.

I find two things plausible from the discussion of what actually happened.
Mafia got RB and SK/vig killed, or Mafia Traitor. I like the first best.

Does the Mafia traitor not start town though but works against them knowing who the mafia is? I agree the first is more plausible. however I think what could have happened is that a vig got to DRK before DRK made his kill choice to the mod, making it be there is only one kill

FOS

Zach for asking for a vig claim. What WIFOM are you talking about? How would a claim help us besides getting our vig killed? And even if they claimed we'd still suspect them as an SK.

just wondering why only Zach here considering Ryan asked for a bus driver claim in the post before Zachs

If there is a bus driver/redirector, that individual should claim now to shore up any of these possible scenarios.

Lot of WIFOM on DRK's kill. Rather than drown in it, I think it's best that someone claim the kill if it was done by a vig, otherwise it's safe to assume that we have a serial killer walking about that crosskilled.

Toro's roleblocker target looks awfully convenient given the fact that the person he claims to have targeted is dead.

Both ask for claims but you only FOS Zach? why?

Protection will come.

Softclaim???

Vote: Paradoxombie

Feel free to explain this post.

Interesting, was this ever answered???

Do those of you who think DRK and I were together, do you honestly think that the mafia would've just thrown DeathRowKitty, a more active player, under the bus rather than the guy who just checks in whenever he has time? Just saying 'I don't believe' and just throwing down a vote on a PR is just stupid.

Dont think anyone got thrown under the bus but whatever..

Well DJ, I don't know how many times I have to say it...

I'm the TOWN Roleblocker.

just because you say TOWN X ammount of times does not make it true you know, you could as easily be MAFIA roleblocker and none of us would be any the wiser... you claim to RB the person who ended up killed in the night, and claim town also...... seems convienient to me really

And

Vote: Zachrulez

Are you ****ing kidding me? We've already got a couple of PR roles walking about, and you want to out another one?

Again, why only Zach when Ryan also asked for a roleclaim on another type of power role? I think you are trying to latch onto Hiphops suspicions here really...

Personally, I think it was a vig kill over an SK kill, given my analysis of DRK's interaction with IK.

please detail this. it is a very suspicious statement. i thought drk was obvtown for the better part of the day yesterday. to me it looks way more like an sk picking a town target.

FoS Ryan

just an odd thing to say here. if you can back this up with evidence i will retract my statement.

your FOSing him over a thought, and him presenting a scanario that could have happened? thats a bit weak Don, considering he had already explained his suspicions earlier...

Read my lengthy post at the beginning of D2. It explains how I could see it as a vig kill.

there ya go!

I shot DRK last night.

OK since this is out in the open now, I put forward again that Ryan quite possibly could have gotten his Vig shot into the mod to kill DRK before DRK submitted his kill for the mafia and hence no kill from mafia??

Welcome to the game of

RISK =/= REWARD!

Vote: Toro

Will Toro flip as the Town Roleblocker? Or the Town Roleblocker? Who knows!?

Go on, do it. Just vote for me and you'll all see.

cut this crap and appeal to emotion now, will I flip town or town?? and a self vote.... yea what this reads to me as is ' look, im brave enough to self vote so you think I am town'

only time it is prudant for a self vote is scum self hammering to stop conversation and help his buddies... at least in my experience

Toro how come you are not answering questions? If you do not want to play, than why are you still posting?

excellent question...


Honestly, I find the statement that he RBed the person who died a little to convienient, and smacks of scum desperation and since he has gone quiet since his self-martyor vote and not answering the questions put forth.

vote: Toro

It all just seems a little too convenient... he isa claimed roleblocker, I get no result meaning I was RBed and he claims to RB the person killed

I am sure he actually roleblocked me so I could not look into a scum buddies post.

[DTMaster]

@RC
You'll have the answer with the flip. :<. But trying to reason the whole RB issue is very WIFOMic and I dislike how you are continually bringing this up. It's poor reasoning in general and just generates confusion. Better to analyze Toro's other posts.

@Jason
It's anti-town to point out soft claims like that, and it's scummy to fish them. Also quick hammer lynch? :< We have pending summary posts and you hammered. Why?

[Paradoxombie]

@Paradox
737: You're certain a vig claim would not invoke a NK target based on that reasoning? It reads as role fishing before ryan claimed. Some issues with your logic are:

1. The town protects are now targeting one of the town PRs (I hope they did). You are insinuating that one of the claimed/softclaimed PRs is scum here with the doc protects scum idea.

2. The town vig would target an unCCed town PR. That would be silly right there, only an SK would do that. Unless the doc moved his protect from the town claimed PRs (that would be odd) the vig kill will resolve on another player. So your logic that the town vig is safe from kills seem fishy to me, pre-claim even.

I was role fishing. I don't think the vig will necessarily survive, but i'd prefer them claimed and dead than alive and unclaimed.

[don_johnson]

weak hammer. but we'll see. good point about hiphop/toro. toro's inability to participate makes him a good information lynch if he flips town, so i'm not going to be too upset about this. hopefully we've nailed the scum roleblocker.

if we have protective roles, do not protect the vig, please. ryan, do what you think is best, but realize protecting you would be poor town play. good luck. the helpfulness of my night action results depend on the flip, so i will try to post in twilight.

requesting doc protect if i don't get the chance.

[icemanE]

TBH, I'm not a huge fan of big summarative posts. I prefer to reread the game as a base for my own understanding, and then jump immediately into the relevant issues at hand.

As far as the lynch today, I would have hammered myself based on Toro's self-vote alone. In my experience, self-voting is almost always a scum ploy. Additionally, calling for your own lynch as he did is a scare tactic. He also essentially disappeared when the pressure mounted, at least in terms of his actual participation in the game.

[DTMaster]

PMing Alex. The suspense is killing me D:

[hiphop]

Do you guys think that night is more important than day? If you don't, why such a quick lynch?

[DTMaster]

Day to me is the most important phase for the town to get things out there. The things that can happen at night stay at night and cannot be reported unless they survive till day. That's another reason to add to why I unvoted after the self vote.

Night has it's uses, but it's during the day where the real action happens. :3

[ryan2754]

I am extremely disheartened by this quicklynch...

[DTMaster]

This would implicate RC and Jason for forcing it to L-1 and hammering right there only if Toro flips town RB. This would mean Toro was right and Jason was lying.

[RedCoyote]

I will take as much responsibility for this lynch as the town wants to assign to me. But...

This would mean Toro was right and Jason was lying.

This isn't necessarily correct. I've said it's likely that one of them is scum, but that isn't a sure thing. The scumteam likely have two power roles, and it isn't unbelievable that they would have a scum Roleblocker. I just think the amount of successful visits by multiple roles, the more roles have successful visits the less likely the scenario is.

I was comfortable with the hammer and I am comfortable pressing forward. I am not thrilled that jason laid down a long post asking questions of people and hammered in the same post, because that feels a little disingenuous, but I think jason's playstyle of asking questions that he has no big intention on following up with holds true.

Aside from that, have a good night gentlemen.

[don_johnson]

TBH, I'm not a huge fan of big summarative posts. I prefer to reread the game as a base for my own understanding, and then jump immediately into the relevant issues at hand.

As far as the lynch today, I would have hammered myself based on Toro's self-vote alone. In my experience, self-voting is almost always a scum ploy. Additionally, calling for your own lynch as he did is a scare tactic. He also essentially disappeared when the pressure mounted, at least in terms of his actual participation in the game.

interesting. toro's play was sub par the entire game. how can someone dissappear when they have barely ever appeared in the first place? also, i'd love for you to reference games where self voting was used as a scum ploy. imo, more often than not, self voting is a desperate town measure or a townie's last ditch gambit. i am becoming more inclined to think toro is exactly who he says he is.

DTM 767 is a false dilemma as far as i can see. hopefully we can get some explanation tomorrow.

[icemanE]

i am becoming more inclined to think toro is exactly who he says he is.

So because you think I'm wrong, you think toro is right?

That looks like a scum move to me. You would know if he's town if you're scum.

[don_johnson]

So because you think I'm wrong, you think toro is right?

That looks like a scum move to me. You would know if he's town if you're scum.

no to the first question. the fact he was basically quicklynched, the fact that he self voted, and the fact that he didn't really adjust his playstyle at all when he was under pressure lead me to believe he may have been telling the truth here, but we'll have to wait and see.

your last sentence is the exact opposite of groundbreaking deductive reasoning. it applys to any player who would be scum.

if you're going to call me scum, you better bring a bit more to the table.

[icemanE]

Right, but if you're scum and know he's town, now would be a great time to voice the fact that you disagreed with his lynch. That's why it looks scummy.

if you're going to call me scum, you better bring a bit more to the table.

If toro flips town, I most certainly will.

[alexhans]

Those in danger of suppression #29:

Paradoxombie (1)

-

Zachrulez

toro (6) -

ryan2754, don_johnson, Paradoxombie, toro, RedCoyote, jasonT1981

Not Voting (3)

-

hiphop, icemanE, DTMaster

With 10 alive it took 6 to lynch.

Flavour & flip soon

[alexhans]

"Do you think it's wise to give him-"
BLEEP
Asked the weaker voice.
"Yes, he has shown to be ready to subconciously fight better while sleeping." - Stated the other with conviction.
"That defies all known logic." - the first one hesitated.
"

HE

defies all known logic. We better do this fast"

A flash of pain...

A gathering.

The outcast is in the middle. Nine numan figures around him, dancing, singing, clapping, shouting at him to do do the stunt before it is too late.

The scene blurs.

A whip appears in his hand.

What's you, is me.

He is trying to keep them at bay. But everywhere you look, he sees everyone falling apart, the system rising up against you, forcing him to present one last battle.

Our enemy, my enemy.

But he can't resist his own. He grabs the whip and lashes at himself. A sign of desperation. A cry for help. But the BLEEP makes the rest impervious to fear. Incapable of feeling anything other than fascination for this moment.

Unanimity. Power.

Secession.

"Orgy porgy!!" - Someone screams.

At last they fall on him. Beating and dancing in furious anger and desolation.

Toro, Roleblocker was lynched D2.

I'm smeared by blood from the innocent.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Night 2 has begun. It will end on Monday 7 at 10:00 AM (GMT-3). Send your actions before then.