California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

Gaspar · Post Post #550 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:56 am

Well I am headed out for a long weekend (yay Labor Day), so I suppose I have no choice but to put in a self-preservation vote before I go. Sorry, Zwet.

(PS. Mod, this means I too will have very limited access this weekend.)

Quick responses to Talilan's new points:

Talilan wrote:- He announced intentions of meta'ing zwet but has made no attempts to meta my half of the hydra; even though his primary and most important interactions over the last few days have been with us.

Digging for "I typically only vote when it's a hammer" is very easily verifiable, though thanks for reminding me that Zwet never provided those links, and I didn't follow up. (By the way, this is an example of less-than-stellar play. In my hayday, I would have been all over this until I got my links.)

Talilan wrote:- He has not in any way reconsidered his position (or simply acted indidgnantly, as I might expect him to according to meta) since we came off-stage and started attacking him for his opportunistic attacks on us. Instead he is entirely acting like scum afraid for their life and dug his heels in.

That's because you haven't behaved any better since coming Off Stage and attacking anybody who even looks at you funny. Mass OMGUS is a pretty significant scumtell for me, and you have exhibited it since you first came offstage, even going as far as to accuse Elmosaurian of omgusing YOU. Your behavior in-thread was bad, I haven't liked your explanations for your behavior, your logic and decision-making have been unsound, your suspicions amount to "people who have attacked me", and you just tried to push the fallback "let's lynch him for information." That's like five good reasons to suspect you outside of my initial read.

Furthermore, I'm going to use a Talilan quote to explain why meta is much less significant when dealing with you (as a hydra) than an individual player.

Talilan wrote:Have you ever been a mason or a hydra, Thok? When you have another person to bounce thoughts around with, it makes you play differently.

Ortolan is calling me scummy for failing to meta them, while Talitha is saying "well we're a hydra, so we are playing differently than we normally would."

Derp.

Unvote, Vote: Zwet

, Talilan, [people], No Lynch, Gaspar

Mr. Grey · Post Post #551 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:01 am

Deadline:

Approximately 23 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Gaspar: 3 (GoofballsAndBaloons, Talilan, zwetschenwasser)
zwetschenwasser: 3 (Bagel Eating Cowfrog, Gaspar, Mighty Orbots)
elmosaurian: 1 (MrJellyLee)
GoofballsAndBaloons: 1 (Thok)
Talilan: 1 (elmosaurian)
Thok: 1 (ShadowLurker)

Not Voting: 1 (Rawr Hydra)

Current Condorcet Winner:

zwetschenwasser

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put the following information into this form.

1,Bagel Eating Cowfrog
2,elmosaurian
3,Gaspar
4,GoofballsAndBaloons
5,Mighty Orbots
6,MrJellyLee
7,Rawr Hydra
8,ShadowLurker
9,Talilan
10,Thok
11,zwetschenwasser
12,No Lynch
13,Mr. Grey

1:11>10>2=3=4=6=7=9>5>8>12>1
1:9>3>1>11>6=7=8=10>4>5>12>2
1:11>9>1=2=4=5=6=7=8=10>12>3
1:3>1=2=5=6=7=8=9=10=11=12>4
1:11>6=7>4=8>1=2=3=10>9=12>5
1:2>10>1=5=7=8=11>3>4>12>13>6>9
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=8=9=10=11=12>7
1:10>7>11>3=9>2>6>5>12>1=4>8
1:3>11>2>10>8>1=4=5=6=7>12>9
1:4>9>6>7>11>8>1=2=3=5>12>10
1:3>5>8>1=2=4=6=7=9=10=12>11

GoofballsAndBaloons · Post Post #552 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:46 am

BridgeAndBaloons has no time to post but he gave me his data from the zwet meta he finally finished. I couldn't find it, he put in under "Notes" in our account, I had never used or noticed this feature before.

Among these games, the finished ones were examined:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c05e33fd80
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11722 (but replaced out)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11217
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6bbd974fa0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10927
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11294
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11181
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10857
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... cb8a4c4d1e

Here's what he did. He calculated the average number of words in each post (not counting quoting other players) as town and as scum. As town, he had 9.5 words per post, and as scum, 10.4. Bridges doesn't feel this is a statistically significant increase in wordiness as scum.

He also calculated the expected number of posts per game, which depends on the number of players in the game, only counting the time before zwet dies. As town, zwet posts 6% more than his fair share. As scum/SK, he posts 18% more than his fair share. He appears to post a lot more as scum than as town.

In this game (City of Angels), at the time when Bridges made his calculations, zwet had posted exactly as much as expected in a game with this number of players, which is closer to his town posting profile than his scum posting profile, which is quite distinct.

Therefore, following Bridges' analysis, the GAB hydra is now in agreement that zwet is probably town.

Mr. Grey · Post Post #553 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:10 am

Mod Note:

I am aware that several people will be away or busy for Labor Day weekend. The between-scenes period will be extended a bit because of that (and posting requirements do not apply between scenes). Just don't forget to check back in on Tuesday!

Bagel Eating Cowfrog · Post Post #554 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:29 am

ok, I've skimmed a lot of the quote wars and here's a bit of a summary of my thoughts before talking with my other heads about more stuff.

I've been getting weird vibes from Gaspar all day due to the really little things he's gone after, things that are bad logic but not what I would consider lynchable.

I don't like half of Talilan, but I like the other half, not sure what that means in the long run.

One thing I would like to ask is whether we do want to fire MafiaJin or not. While I don't currently think he's scum, I don't trust the judgement of either hydra head and think it's probably safer for the town to have someone who's less of a loose cannon out there making the decisions as to who makes the decisions.

Going to try to talk to other heads now and probably recondorcet later tonight.

-Cow

elmosaurian · Post Post #555 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:55 am

Talilan wrote: Ok that is all true but for God's sake what is at issue is whether Gaspar/elmo's attacks on us were ever justified. It is not a matter of whether the scenario that both advocates are lying scum is likely, it is whether Gaspar/elmo were justified in attacking us for even countenancing the possibility in the first place.

If you had said "I think there's a good chance that both advocates are lying scum" that wouldn't have been as scummy. But that's not what I attacked you for. What I attacked you for was the way you seemed to believe everything CKD was saying,

but wanted to make him drive anyway

. That, I can't think of any possible town motivation for.

-Yos

Mr. Grey · Post Post #556 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:46 am

Final Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Gaspar: 3 (GoofballsAndBaloons, Talilan, zwetschenwasser)
zwetschenwasser: 3 (Bagel Eating Cowfrog, Gaspar, Mighty Orbots)
elmosaurian: 1 (MrJellyLee)
GoofballsAndBaloons: 1 (Thok)
Talilan: 1 (elmosaurian)
Thok: 1 (ShadowLurker)

Not Voting: 1 (Rawr Hydra)

Current Condorcet Winner:

zwetschenwasser

Pairwise Results: 6-2, 7-2, 6-4, 8-2, 7-1, 7-2, 6-3, 7-1, 6-3, 6-3, 8-1, 11-0

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put the following information into this form.

1,Bagel Eating Cowfrog
2,elmosaurian
3,Gaspar
4,GoofballsAndBaloons
5,Mighty Orbots
6,MrJellyLee
7,Rawr Hydra
8,ShadowLurker
9,Talilan
10,Thok
11,zwetschenwasser
12,No Lynch
13,Mr. Grey

1:11>10>2=3=4=6=7=9>5>8>12>1
1:9>3>1>11>6=7=8=10>4>5>12>2
1:11>9>1=2=4=5=6=7=8=10>12>3
1:3>1=2=5=6=7=8=9=10=11=12>4
1:11>6=7>4=8>1=2=3=10>9=12>5
1:2>10>1=5=7=8=11>3>4>12>13>6>9
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=8=9=10=11=12>7
1:10>7>11>3=9>2>6>5>12>1=4>8
1:3>11>2>10>8>1=4=5=6=7>12>9
1:4>9>6>7>11>8>1=2=3=5>12>10
1:3>5>8>1=2=4=6=7=9=10=12>11

Mr. Grey · Post Post #557 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:06 am

Take That

"And... cut! That's a wrap, people."

The bus comes to a halt, a pickup truck pulls to the side of it, and the group of actors on camera hop in and are taken back to the rest of the crew.

"Excellent work! Ok, so some of you aren't so great with the ad-lib, and a lot of the dialogue was decidedly... meta. Really broke the fourth wall there. But that's fine. What matter is that the plot to an exciting turn. I wasn't sure where we needed to go with that, but having Valentine drive definitely made more sense creatively. Now, let's get set up for the next..."

"Sir... sorry to interrupt, Mr. Grey, but..."

"What is it?"

"Well, it seems the off stage actors did as you thought they might, and one of them is dead!"

"Trying to get a bigger piece of the budget, no doubt. Well, who'd they kill?"

"Well, it was an actor working under the pseudonym

zwetschenwasser

- it's German - but..."

"Yes, I can tell it's German."

Mr. Grey takes a sip of his brandy.

"Sorry, sir."

"Is there an echo in here? You apologize too much."

"Sorry, sir. Anyway, after some further investigation, it appears that the victim was actually an actress named Tatum O'Neal."

"Right. She wasn't here to sabotage the project or anything, was she?"

"No, sir, not as far as we can tell."

"Very well."

"What should we do with the body?"

"Burn it. No, wait. First get some footage. Something artsy. We'll use it as the first big mystery element in the next scene. And see if you can find that note we wrote about who should play the primary role in the next scene. Director, you'll just have to pick your actors provisionally..."

The Outcome for Scene 1 was Good (+1)! zwetschenwasser (Tatum O'Neal, Innocent) is dead. It is Pre-Scene 2. Deadline is approximately 110 hours from this post.

[Something Else] choose an Advocate for Scene 2, as well as an alternate in case that Role is no longer available. The Advocate can be any Role played by a living Actor, whether they are already assigned to Scene 2 or not. Also, assign the outcomes [Good/Bad/Bad] to the alternatives [Door 1/Door 2/Door 3] in whatever order you like.

Director, choose five additional actors to participate in Scene 2, in order of preference - they will be chosen as needed until the Scene has nine characters.

This forum will be viewable by all between Scenes (both so that non-players can read the thread, and so that those using hydras don't need to log in to the alt account to check the thread).

ShadowLurker · Post Post #558 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:13 am

Posting this which I was about to post just as thread was locked

"Haven't read yet but just reminding people that there will be a decision On Stage and a lynch Off Stage when deadline hits as both follow Condorcet method. I noted some people Off Stage thought it would be a No Lynch and some On Stage think there will be no decision at all. Both are wrong.

I also just noticed that Carrie Fisher aka KY Krew is scheduled to be On Stage Scene 2. (As is MafiaJin) I'd like at least 3-5 days before a swap is made to pressure other people first and possibly see if we should hold off a KY Krew lynch until Day 3.

Last point before I read new posts but Gaspar, before the game you claimed Count de Morcef was 99% innocent. Yet then when Orbots questioned you about it, you said that it was not Hewitt you were claiming it about and that Orbots had the wrong name. However, a look at the cast shows that it is indeed Hewitt who is Count de Morcef. Clarify that please. (I don't believe Orbots ever followed up on this"

KY KREW: WHAT THE FUCK. EXPLAIN YOURSELF IMMEDIATELY.

GoofballsAndBaloons · Post Post #559 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:24 am

Here's a timeline.

(1) KY Krew is the lynch-du-jour.
(2) He slinks off stage.
(3) zwet becomes the lynch-du-jour.
(4) Gaspar takes some heat.
(5) Gaspar defensively switches his vote to zwet to save his own keister.
(6) Somehow, KY Krew, the King of Lurk, has his timing perfectly figured out to end the day, mere hours after Gaspar's zwet vote, and just in time to save Gaspar's keister.
(7) If KY Krew isn't buddies with Gaspar, with Gaspar pulling his puppet strings and urging him to end the day ASAP, I will eat my hat.

-DGB

ShadowLurker · Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:31 am

To be fair, without accounting for Gaspar's vote switch, zwet is still the outright Condorcet winner and wins all pairings despite Gaspar having a plurality vote.

In this game though, I feel like there is a good chance of scum being able to communicate at any time given how there really aren't days and nights. In fact, that may explain KY Krew's timing, and would also lead to the idea that there will be at least one scum offstage at all times even if scum is in the Director role.

MafiaJin, I believe you should allow the town as a whole to dictate your choices for next scene.

Bagel Eating Cowfrog · Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:33 am

This should be obvious but I want to say it just in case:

MAFIAJIN - DO NOT PUT TALILAN ON CAMERA THIS SCENE.

We're gonna need them to switch out with KY Krew who, I think everyone can agree by now, are obvscum.

-dahill

Bagel Eating Cowfrog · Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:34 am

Director, please wait until all players are caught up with the offstage stuff before making a decision.

-Shanba

GoofballsAndBaloons · Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:40 am

ShadowLurker wrote:To be fair, without accounting for Gaspar's vote switch, zwet is still the outright Condorcet winner and wins all pairings despite Gaspar having a plurality vote.

Exactly.

KY Krew ended the day before anyone could change their Condorcet, and perhaps lower zwet and raise Gaspar.

I wonder if my relaying of Bridges' analysis, that changed Bridges' own mind regarding zwet's alignment, made them nervous.

The tide was not riding in Gaspar's favor.

ShadowLurker wrote:In this game though, I feel like there is a good chance of scum being able to communicate at any time given how there really aren't days and nights.

Exactly. That is the normal assumption in a nightless game.

Thesp · Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:53 am

So, what'd I miss? Please be quick.

Thesp · Post Post #565 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:59 am

Especially since I'll be out of town tomorrow evening through Monday evening, and I don't know if I'll be able to go through this thread in that time, and I want to know stuff in case I'm back on stage.

GoofballsAndBaloons · Post Post #566 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:17 pm

Read my post #559, that sums it all up.

-DGB

MafiaJin · Post Post #567 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:39 pm

Well this is interesting. Is there anybody who wants to stay here? KY Krew was trying to get me replaced but I am still the director as of now. I don't care if I personally am the director or not but this needs to stay in innocent hands.

And we need someone to fill the picture role. I will try and list the scene choices so that it can be filled with someone off stage. I welcome input on the choices. Feel free to post about that.

Anything to say about this now, KY?

@Mod- How much time between scenes?

Still catching up.

zwetschenwasser · Post Post #568 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:49 pm

MafiaJin · Post Post #569 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:03 pm

Dweezil Zappa, played by Mighty Orbots

Kobe Bryant, played by Rawr Hydra

Julie Newmar, played by MafiaJin

Lance Ito, played by Seraphim

Carrie Fisher, played by Talilan (except KY Krew permanently replaced, yes?)

These are the people that have to go in. So, we will not have any sound engineer and the picture engineer is unreplaced according to the opening post.

-Sajin (last one was too, I forgot to sign the post)

MrJellyLee · Post Post #570 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:05 pm

PJ Posting.

Well, given the result of Scene One I will need to rethink my position on John Locke and Valentine. However, I want to hear from both curiuoskarmadog and Panzerjagger summaries of what they were told as Advocates now that they don’t have to role-play.

Though I admit I hate comments like the one I am about to give when they are made about me, I think people are giving Mighty Orbots a bit of a pass – people seem to have him listed as town in general, but when I try to think about what he has posted all that comes to mind is suggestions for songs, pictures, and the like to convey messages On Screen. Even his attack on zwetschenwasser (at least the attack that I recall) was concerned with zwetschenwasser’s speed in posting a picture. Yes, I’m sure he’s made other points, but I’ll wager if you boil his posts down to content there isn’t as much there as players seem to think there is. I will see if I can read him isolation later.

I had intended on reading over the entire thread in and revoting in case it made a difference in the lynch, but I don’t really feel the urgency now. If I get to reread before being tossed On Screen it will have to wait until tomorrow.

curiouskarmadog · Post Post #571 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:20 pm

catching up on this thread.

Bagel Eating Cowfrog · Post Post #572 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:37 pm

MafiaJin wrote:Dweezil Zappa, played by Mighty Orbots

Kobe Bryant, played by Rawr Hydra

Julie Newmar, played by MafiaJin

Lance Ito, played by Seraphim

Carrie Fisher, played by Talilan (except KY Krew permanently replaced, yes?)

These are the people that have to go in. So, we will not have any sound engineer and the picture engineer is unreplaced according to the opening post.

-Sajin (last one was too, I forgot to sign the post)

you're sending yourself out again?

And

Talilan despite specifically being asked not to? I was 100% wrong about you and Glork was right. WTF man, it seems like you haven't even read the thread.

Can whoever it is that has the power please sack him?

Bagel Eating Cowfrog · Post Post #573 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:37 pm

-Shanba

Rawr Hydra · Post Post #574 (ISO) » Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:46 pm

(Kore)

Those are the five players that are scheduled to go on as dictated by the script, not the ones that the director picked. The director picks four in addition to those already going on.