Mafia 99 - Killers Mafia (game over)

[ZazieR]

Nobody else needs a prod. And Sudai will be replaced (If Empking agrees). But I'll start the replacement search already.

1. Jackinthebox777 (2) - realityfan, Santos
2. Santos (0)
3. Devestation (0)
4. Far_Cry (3) - Flava Flave , Boxman, Jacinthebox777
5. RealityFan (0)
6. Flava Flave(1) - Far_Cry
7. Boxman (2) - Michelsabreheart, manho
8. Michelsabreheart (1) - Sudai
9. Saberwolf (1) - Chaco
10. manho (0) -
11. Donkeyz (0) -
12. Sudai (0)
13. Chaco (0) -
Not voting (3) - Donkeyz, Sabrewolf, Devestation

7 to lynch

[RealityFan]

I have a really big gut read on FC-town. I think that saber vs. FC was Town vs. Town. I don't like Santos buddying up to me and voting jack. In my opinion, the supertown argument is dumb. It depends on if they give off any scum-tells WHILE posting a lot of content, people aren't scummy for posting a lot of content...

[Santos]

Donkeyz,

I was just tickled how you and Flave both brought it up; I thought it was strange and mere coincidence...almost like Flave was using that theory against FarCry or simply forgot that you had already mentioned it. But as you seem to be pointing at yourself as a town leader I am leaning toward the circumstance as just coincidence.

Realitfan,

Example of how I am buddying, please?

[RealityFan]

RealityFan seems pretty confidant in his vote placement at the moment.

[Flava Flave]

Good town players never act super town. Good town players act naturally.

100% absolutely correct, but that does not translate to being pro or anti town in any way. Good mafia players act naturally. Bad town players are acting naturally too, but this could be seen as scummy. Bad mafia players arent acting naturally. In reality, this just draws a line between good and bad players, not between being town and mafia.

Hmm. I agree with this post, but disagree with the post you say you are agreeing with. You are making a different point than Far_Cry is making. Good players act naturally. This is true regardless of their alignment. The problem is that some players have a naturally "super town" natural play. Either way, "super town" is not a reason to call someone scum. No one can ever truly be too town to actually be town. Yes, good scum players can appear protown, but that's a separate issue entirely.

@Manho
Look at what I said. He did no scumhinting BEFORE both of the examples you point out. My point is that he wasn't very fast to actually start the game.

it is still RVS until that instance where toast made that "let's talk", FC accuse him after that. so no one had scumhunted before.

Fair enough. It just didn't look like enough on an isolated view, but looking back, the RVS was a bit longer than I'd have preferred.

Being ok with looking scummy is not optimal play. Being oversensitive to looking scummy is a scumtell, but you want to at least pay some attention the the perception others have of you.

i would defend myself when necessary, but i won't do extra things to look pro-town.

I'm more saying that if people find someone's play scummy, it's a flaw in their game that needs to be looked at and improved upon regardless of alignment. Town players who don't care will cost their team games by being mislynched over scum.

I meant what in my posts made you think I was saying anyone was guilty until proven innocent?

you assume FC is scum, and then say a scum-FC would do "something", but a town-FC will still do the same thing. that's guilty until proven innocent.

You are dodging the question repeatedly. Show me an example.

I never said that being protown is being scummy; I try to act protown myself. Does that make me scummy? No.

And if you do a good job of being protown, as town, you'll come off as "super town", correct?

"]
I can't put on two votes, and at the time, I believed that Toast was more suspicious than Pimj was.

Well you were talking much more about Pimj than about Toast. Hell, your arguments against Pimj were actually stronger points IMO.

And what do you mean, I shouldn't care who you look at?

You are defending my logic that if you are scum, Pimj is your partner. If you are town, you have no scumbuddies, and no reason to defend this argument. You have come out strongly defending this, which enforces it even more.

Flava Flave, let's see if I understood you correctly. You believe I am scum because Far_cry, who you find suspicious, called pimj suspicious without ever voting him? How do you read pimj's post #59 in that context?

Actually missed that post. I picked up the connection from Far_Cry's posts in isolation. May have been scum frustrated with being "suspected" by a buddy or simply some of his own distancing. That post does weaken the connection significantly though.

Also, what is wrong with Far_cry insisting that I'm not his scumbuddy? If he is town, he knows that you are looking for the wrong tells if you are looking for connections to him. And if you are suspecting people for the wrong reasons, it's likely that you are suspecting town.

Well, right now, Far_Cry is the lynch I am pushing. If I'm wrong, it doesn't clear you. Just means I was looking at the wrong reasons to suspect you. But I won't lynch you on a connection alone without a scum flip from Far_Cry.

Donkeyz,

I was just tickled how you and Flave both brought it up; I thought it was strange and mere coincidence...almost like Flave was using that theory against FarCry or simply forgot that you had already mentioned it. But as you seem to be pointing at yourself as a town leader I am leaning toward the circumstance as just coincidence.

Realitfan,

Example of how I am buddying, please?

Wait, what did we both bring up?

[donkeyz12212]

yeah im confused as to what we both brought up as well lol.

[Chaco]

Mod: V/LA til Saturday

[saberwolf]

hi wonakloverlf...

who are you replacing?

[manho]

*When finally placing a non-random vote (on Toast), Far_Cry says "Toast's post sounds like scum to me. Doesn't anyone agree??" and "Question to everyone: Do u believe Toast's post was scummy?". I know what you're thinking. So what? He's stating his opinions, right? See, the problem is that when using lines like that, Far_Cry is only looking for support, not looking for accuracy. He's asking everyone else if they'll go in the direction he wants them to, not trying to determine the accuracy of the point he makes.

Scum

already know whether their case is accurate or not, so all they need to do is convince everyone else.

you are assuming FC is scum and say that scum-FC are trying to get support and convincing others, but town player also need supports and they need to convince others to get their suspect lynch. it's guilty until proven innocent. also, if FC is looking for support only, he should have unvoted and get on some bandwagon. he holds his vote on toast for a long time, while no one support his accusation.

*

Looking at it, it does look somewhat scummy to me. Seems to me like toast is trying to look like "an innocent townie."

Now this quote has

TWO

problems. That's right. Finding multiple tells in the same quote. Note the use of the phrases "Looking at it" and "somewhat scummy". Now he's getting wishy washy with the opinion that Toast's post was scummy. That means he can back off and switch elsewhere if he doesn't get the support OR he can follow through with it if he

does

get the support.

same as above, and again, he follows through with his vote while he doesn't get support.

[Empking]

hi wonakloverlf...

who are you replacing?

Nobody.

Sudai is getting replaced by Pyromaniac though.

[saberwolf]

FoS: wonakloverlf

for randomly showing up in our game

[Santos]

How is that buddying up and not a recap of what's going on with Jackinthebox followed by my own reason to vote him?

Donkeyz, Flava, you both seem like ardent 'super town' hunters. That's what I noticed.

[Pyromaniac]

Shwa-chak!
Friends, enemies and Flave Flare, I welcome you to my first real post. First, lets look at the active lurkers. They are, in my opinion, much worse then regular lurkers. The worst of the bunch is RealityFan. As a lurker realityfan has gone fairly unnoticed, compared to the other lurkers, mainly boxman, manho and donkeyxy1221. Now let’s move onto donkeyxy1222121212. Donkeyz1222333344455555’s first real post was a meta discussion non-contribution, his second post was about super towns, possibly trying to set up a future mislynch on an obvious town. This has been a theme throughout his posts. He has also been buddying up with far_cry, I think he is the most likely to be scum. The second most likely would probably be far_cry. His early caving to the pressure of a RVS bandwagon reeks of scum, as does his interactions with donkeyyz3.1415926535 and saberwolf. Saberwolf has been a bit more tactful in his interactions with far_cry. At first he went after him, coincidently random voting him. Then when the wagon turns serious he hops off, as though he does not want to lynch him. I smell bussing. Far_cry’s response to flave flare’s case was not satisfactory. Santanos and jackinthebox have been lurkers, plain and simple. I have not been able to get a read on them. I don’t have a read on Chaco or Sudia. Michel is vaguely scummy, his prime suspect is boxman and yet realityfan is neutral. And then there is flave flare. Ah Flave Flare. He is building himself a zwet meta. Thus him being obv town is… weird. My general read says town, but from his meta it says non-town, so I am not sure.
At this point a Far_cry lynch gives the most information, so

vote far_cry

[Far_Cry]

Shwa-chak!
Friends, enemies and Flave Flare, I welcome you to my first real post. First, lets look at the active lurkers. They are, in my opinion, much worse then regular lurkers. The worst of the bunch is RealityFan. As a lurker realityfan has gone fairly unnoticed, compared to the other lurkers, mainly boxman, manho and donkeyxy1221. Now let’s move onto donkeyxy1222121212. Donkeyz1222333344455555’s first real post was a meta discussion non-contribution, his second post was about super towns, possibly trying to set up a future mislynch on an obvious town. This has been a theme throughout his posts. He has also been buddying up with far_cry, I think he is the most likely to be scum. The second most likely would probably be far_cry. His early caving to the pressure of a RVS bandwagon reeks of scum, as does his interactions with donkeyyz3.1415926535 and saberwolf. Saberwolf has been a bit more tactful in his interactions with far_cry. At first he went after him, coincidently random voting him. Then when the wagon turns serious he hops off, as though he does not want to lynch him. I smell bussing. Far_cry’s response to flave flare’s case was not satisfactory. Santanos and jackinthebox have been lurkers, plain and simple. I have not been able to get a read on them. I don’t have a read on Chaco or Sudia. Michel is vaguely scummy, his prime suspect is boxman and yet realityfan is neutral. And then there is flave flare. Ah Flave Flare. He is building himself a zwet meta. Thus him being obv town is… weird. My general read says town, but from his meta it says non-town, so I am not sure.
At this point a Far_cry lynch gives the most information, so

vote far_cry

Utility lynch. "Lets lynch Far_Cry because it gives information." That is absolutely antitown. Once again, don't hunt for information, hunt for scum.

P.S. Can you seperate your posts into paragraphs? They are hard to read otherwise.

FoS: wonakloverlf

for randomly showing up in our game

What??

*When finally placing a non-random vote (on Toast), Far_Cry says "Toast's post sounds like scum to me. Doesn't anyone agree??" and "Question to everyone: Do u believe Toast's post was scummy?". I know what you're thinking. So what? He's stating his opinions, right? See, the problem is that when using lines like that, Far_Cry is only looking for support, not looking for accuracy. He's asking everyone else if they'll go in the direction he wants them to, not trying to determine the accuracy of the point he makes.

Scum

already know whether their case is accurate or not, so all they need to do is convince everyone else.

you are assuming FC is scum and say that scum-FC are trying to get support and convincing others, but town player also need supports and they need to convince others to get their suspect lynch. it's guilty until proven innocent. also, if FC is looking for support only, he should have unvoted and get on some bandwagon. he holds his vote on toast for a long time, while no one support his accusation.

*

Looking at it, it does look somewhat scummy to me. Seems to me like toast is trying to look like "an innocent townie."

Now this quote has

TWO

problems. That's right. Finding multiple tells in the same quote. Note the use of the phrases "Looking at it" and "somewhat scummy". Now he's getting wishy washy with the opinion that Toast's post was scummy. That means he can back off and switch elsewhere if he doesn't get the support OR he can follow through with it if he

does

get the support.

same as above, and again, he follows through with his vote while he doesn't get support.

So, what are you trying to say with this post?

@Flava Flave: To answer your last question, doing a good job of being protown as town

does not

make you supertown.

[Pyromaniac]

No. It. Is. Not. The point of day 1 is to get information, get d1 reads. It is also likely that you are scum.

[donkeyz12212]

So the fact that I call for either a saber or Far Cry lynch in my posts signify nothing Pyromaniac? Like I said, I approve of either of their lynches to justify or conclude if there are any connections with the other. The risk involves however that it is town vs town and it won't really mean anything.

[Santos]

It is also likely that you are scum.

It is also likely that you are scum bussing scum. So that should be a valid reason to vote you, right?

[Devestation]

@ Flava Flave: assume the word "town" is removed from the quote, but only after you read my message. Add that bad town players might be acting naturally for themselves, but appear unnatural.

Holy hell its Pyromaniac. Learn to use formatting why don't ya

Today is day one, I don't see why we can't afford an information lynch. Just so long as the person we are lynching for information is the scummiest person in the game (which also happens to be Far_Cry, what luck! )

[Flava Flave]

you are assuming FC is scum and say that scum-FC are trying to get support and convincing others, but town player also need supports and they need to convince others to get their suspect lynch. it's guilty until proven innocent. also, if FC is looking for support only, he should have unvoted and get on some bandwagon. he holds his vote on toast for a long time, while no one support his accusation.

I completely agree with the first part of this paragraph about how town needs to gain support to get their lynch just like scum does. I don't see how it earns the label of "guilty until proven innocent" though. I saw him as scummy on my original read. I looked at it from a standpoint where I had no opinions on anyone yet coming in. After giving everyone a fair look, I decided Far_Cry is the scummiest player in the game. If you want to acknowledge that that process took place, and say that NOW he is guilty until proven innocent, that's fine. But I did keep an open mind when reading the game, and I don't think he's done a good job of defending himself.

His leaving his vote on Toast is why I think Pimj was his scumbuddy. It's not important until we get a scum flip from Far_Cry. If he's town, it means nothing.

Donkeyz, Flava, you both seem like ardent 'super town' hunters. That's what I noticed.

I've been trying to argue AGAINST the "super town" argument all game. It is the absolute worst way to scumhunt.

And then there is flave flare. Ah Flave Flare. He is building himself a zwet meta. Thus him being obv town is… weird. My general read says town, but from his meta it says non-town, so I am not sure.

Umm...

What is wrong with my meta?

@Flava Flave: To answer your last question, doing a good job of being protown as town

does not

make you supertown.

What is the definition of "super town"? Someone who looks so townie that you suspect them for it, right? Well, in order to look that townie, you have to look protown. The more protown, the more "supertown". Therefore, by lynching "supertown" players, all you are doing is lynching the towniest players. That's not scumhunting. It's townhunting and calling the protown players scum simply for being so townie. It's just dumb.

@ Flava Flave: assume the word "town" is removed from the quote, but only after you read my message. Add that bad town players might be acting naturally for themselves, but appear unnatural.

This is true.

[Pyromaniac]

@dev I saved it on google docs and it fucked up my paragraphs. Note that I wrote it before I got my role PM.

[Pyromaniac]

@flave flare A death in the family, a certain ongoing game

[saberwolf]

@flave flare A death in the family, a certain ongoing game

You're not allowed to discuss ongoing games.

[Flava Flave]

@flave flare A death in the family, a certain ongoing game

I don't think I played poorly in death in the family. Just happened to go against my instinct in LYLO, which I'm still kicking myself for.

An ongoing game, I won't talk about.

[Pyromaniac]

It is also likely that you are scum.

It is also likely that you are scum bussing scum. So that should be a valid reason to vote you, right?

No, it might be a not very good reason to vote me if he flips scum because there are better people to lynch. @donkeyz01749182072p301-70437946264471464129642 you have repeatedly said you don't buy the case on far_cry.

[Pyromaniac]

@flave flare A death in the family, a certain ongoing game

I don't think I played poorly in death in the family. Just happened to go against my instinct in LYLO, which I'm still kicking myself for.

An ongoing game, I won't talk about.

Hammering a townie day 1 in seven hours?