Mini 844 - P-p-plain! - Over

[Pomegranate]

Doesn't really sound like you were looking for reactions then. Why bring that up?

I wasn't looking because that's what I meant by it. I should have clarified.

Also, Kmd, you seem extremely obsessed with getting me lynched. I would ask why, but I don't see the point. Just wanted to point that out.

Well, of course. You are my top suspect, so I want you lynched. That's how I play.

Sorry, I never played with you before. Now I know.

[Pomegranate]

Quote failure. Blah.

[Plum]

Nothing to say about why you voted Keelie?

Because I think wagons are a good thing.

unvote, Vote Kmd

kinda like your wagon too, I think I'll hop on.

On a side note I'm getting townie vibes off AlmasterGM.

Isn't this the guy my gut twinged on yesterday for about the same reason?

FOS: Raivann

.

Again, basic Mafia theory: You have to lynch to try to kill the scum and win. That's the only way to win, and if there's the risk that you lynch Town or Town Powerroles, or at least run up wagons on them, you just minimize it and keep going. Starting a wagon on someone who turns out to be a powerrole is much more null than jumping a wagon opportunistically, for example.

So Alm, Pom, and myself haven't given you any real content? Ouch. (Ok, I see that you mentioned that stuff. That makes me feel better.)

You've given real content. It's just the smooshy stuff which is directly related to the RVS, which can be more annoying scumhunting territory in many ways, simply because early reactions can be very hard to gauge because interpretation can be extremely broad. So I didn't get the fun of the RVS but I got the work .

What is wrong with listing my scum reads? I think you are mistaking it for connections between the three players, which isn't what I'm doing. Pom, Lew, and Raiv are my top three individual scum reads.

So, you're welcome guys. I've given you the scum team on Page 3. Pom, Lew, and Raiv.

I think the way I read it, that you were suggesting the three of them as a team, was pretty legitimate. I shouldn't like this, but it's not bothering me as much as I would expect it to do. Maybe my gut has finally matured enough.

Gah, no time.

Mod: I'll be on minor V/LA until Saturday Night Eastern Time. My computer time is limited till then and I realize it will affect how much I can put into this game until then.

Raivann's next post punches my gut hard. Scumdar rings. But I can't give a long explanation that I'd like to right now, so hopefully tomorrow.

[Raivann]

Maybe you just had some bad Taco Bell or something and thats why your gut is twinging Plum?

I had my reason for voting Kmd it was here...

Good job on getting the game started Kmd.It seems like you say you want a wagon on Keelie then depending on whatever the response to the wagon you already had a trap setup.If people jump on they're scummy or if they vote someone else they're scummy, looks like reaching and a possible scum maneuver.

Here's the real scumteam- Kmd, Plum, Scope.

[Kmd4390]

So I'm scum because I apparently set a trap to call everyone scum? Tell me where I called the following people scum:
CoCo
Rosso Carne
KaleiÃ

[CoCo]

Vote Alm.

1. Answering for other players is a big scumtell in my book.

2. In all my games of Mafia, only one or two have began with a Night phase. Phrasing it as best I can; only scum would want a Night start for the sole purpose of fishing out power roles and getting a free kill. I honestly don't understand why you want a game to start with scum advantage, unless you are scum.

[Raivann]

[quote="Kmd4390"]So I'm scum because I apparently set a trap to call everyone scum? Tell me where I called the following people scum:
CoCo
Rosso Carne
KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

Pomegranate is the biggest threat in the game? And Lew? And you? No offense to any of you guys, but if I were scum, I'd be more worried about someone like Plum, who knows how I play and can probably read me better than anyone else here. To say that my suspects are "threats" is terrible reasoning.

[Raivann]

I'm pretty sure that Alm is town, so therefor CoCo must be scum.

Unfortunately, I don't think lew is scum, so I don't think this is an issue.

I agree Lew is prob town too

[Raivann]

Pomegranate is the biggest threat in the game? And Lew? And you? No offense to any of you guys, but if I were scum, I'd be more worried about someone like Plum, who knows how I play and can probably read me better than anyone else here. To say that my suspects are "threats" is terrible reasoning.

It was supposed to be funny.

[Kmd4390]

I'm pretty sure that Alm is town, so therefor CoCo must be scum.

Elaborate. Also, what happened to the Kmd/Plum/Scope team?

I agree Lew is prob town too

Why?

It was supposed to be funny.

*headscratch*

ok then..

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah, she knows someone who has played. Me. I'd know if she had experience in the game. She knows a VERY basic version. Nothing that would help her fake a reaction like that.

Whatever, I guess you are in a better position to meta than I am. If she flips scum at the end, though, I'll laugh pretty hard.

No, I said I think he's town. I didn't say I know he is. And you're right that I don't see scummy motives in his posts, so I don't suspect him. Yes, I do think he is likely town. No, I'm not saying that is a definite read that will never change. 95% would even be a bit extreme IMO. I'm not 95% on anyone just yet.

First of all, go back and read your post Your exact rhetoric was "Rosso is town ... Therefore, Rosso is town." Obviously, if you want to retract that ex-post-facto, you can goright ahead. Pointless who-said-what aside, though, I'm still not seeing a justification for why you should even

think

he's town. Explain to me why the lack of motivation in a post is a TOWN tell and not just a null-tell? Scum post things for no particular reason all the time.

This is a semantics argument then. Pointless.

It's not a semantics argument. You said that because the play was "logical," it's was (probably) a town move. My question is why logical moves are a town tell, when, as you conceded yourself, scum play "logically" and townies can play poorly all the time?

You are arguing what would be "good" play while I'm arguing what is more "likely" play. We don't disagree on logic. Just the conclusions.

Fair.

Yeah, you were clear the first time. I disagree with this opinion. I'd be more likely to vote someone who isn't giving reads and is coasting through the game than I would be for someone whose reads I disagree with or consider "bad" or "wrong".

This is day one, not three. There hasn't even been enough game to coast through yet. In the late game, I'll agree with you, but right now, I think spreading bad information is much more dangerous than doing nothing.

That's fine, but why does disagreeing with my stances on players make me scum?

The vote was primarily to ensure there was a response elicited, not because I am actually convinced by any significant margin that you are scum. I do, however, disagree with your reads enough that I'm keeping my vote on you for now.

Vote: AlmasterGM

OMGUSSCUM

^^This is a good wagon^^

What?

1. Answering for other players is a big scumtell in my book.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

There

is

no meta on Keelie. I'm basing things off of general newbies and how she is IRL.

I didn't say Rosso is town for having no motivation. I said he's town because of the way he's going for reactions so early.

I am NOT AT ALL saying that scum always play logically and town always play poorly. I'm not even sure where you get that from.

If we, as you say, do nothing on Day 1, it screws the whole game. Day 1 is where you get all of your reads, and usually, the majority of the game's discussion. I'd rather be vocal and wrong than sit on my thumb all day and gain nothing.

Heh, you very rarely have to worry about me not responding. Question stands though. Why is a disagreement in stances a reason for me to be scum?

[CoCo]

I'm pretty sure that Alm is town, so therefor CoCo must be scum.

Is this a joke? Who's to say your read is wrong? What about the points I've made in regards to why I made my vote? In fact, shouldn't KaleiDoscope be under scrutiny for voting for the player you think is town without offering a reason?

FOS: Raivann.

Why?

I'm not going to repeat something that has already been discussed in the game.

[Pomegranate]

Kmd, am I still your #1 suspect? Why or why not? Would you still like to see me lynched?


Aside from that, I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on answering questions directed at another person/other people. Do you think it's scummy or not? Why?

I think I've expressed my views on this already.

[Kmd4390]

Pom, yes. You are still my top suspect for reasons I've clearly outlined. Yes, I'd like to see you lynched considering I think you are probably scum.

I think I've gone into enough detail about answering for people as well.

[Pomegranate]

Oh, I forgot in my previous post: Raivann just keeps getting scummier... he doesn't explain himself. How did you come to the conclusion that the scumteam is Kmd, Plum, and Kscope? Why is Alm town? Why is CoCo scum? What happened to your previous scum view? Why did it change? Did something specific invalidate it, or did you just have a change of mind? If you just changed your mind, then why?

Lotsa Whys.

[Raivann]

I'm pretty sure that Alm is town, so therefor CoCo must be scum.

Elaborate. Also, what happened to the Kmd/Plum/Scope team?

I agree Lew is prob town too

Why?

It was supposed to be funny.

*headscratch*

ok then..

I'm just putting my 2 cents in on Almaster and Lew. My read could very well be wrong. Notice I didn't vote you CoCo.
I'm more suspicious of the players who go hard after the players who make little textbook mistakes in the RVS.Like the player who unvoted or didn't vote or did whatever. Kinda like how lew was getting attacked.

[Raivann]

Oh, I forgot in my previous post: Raivann just keeps getting scummier... he doesn't explain himself. How did you come to the conclusion that the scumteam is Kmd, Plum, and Kscope? Why is Alm town? Why is CoCo scum? What happened to your previous scum view? Why did it change? Did something specific invalidate it, or did you just have a change of mind? If you just changed your mind, then why?

Lotsa Whys.

I'm suspicious of Scope & CoCo because of their votes on Alm when I have a town read on him.

I change my mind and vote alot day 1 and try to get reaads on multiple people. I usually get lynched for it.

[CoCo]

Raivann, what do you think of KaleiDoscope's vote?

[Raivann]

Raivann, what do you think of KaleiDoscope's vote?

Here's the real scumteam- Kmd, Plum,

Scope

.

[CoCo]

I don't know Raivann. You feel Alm is town, and then say I must be scum based on that read. You ignored Scope's post. You only felt to comment on your Alm read after I'd voted. You have not disputed my reasoning either.

[CoCo]

What I mean is, you're basing your suspicions off of a read on a player. This early in the game, I would like to hear WHY you get townie vibes off Alm, rather than make such blatantly defensive posts and/or cast suspicion on players voting against your read.

[Raivann]

Oh, I forgot in my previous post: Raivann just keeps getting scummier... he doesn't explain himself. How did you come to the conclusion that the scumteam is Kmd, Plum, and Kscope? Why is Alm town? Why is CoCo scum? What happened to your previous scum view? Why did it change? Did something specific invalidate it, or did you just have a change of mind? If you just changed your mind, then why?

Lotsa Whys.

I think it's alot scummier to sit back and lurk and try to blend in than it is to post your suspicions and ruffle feathers.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm. I agree with Pom about Raiv and all the questions that his posts leave. I also agree with Raiv that it's better to get your opinions out. Raiv's point is just theory though, so isn't connected to his alignment. And Pom could still be distancing or Raiv could be town, so I won't clear her for making good points against Raiv. Just want to get it out there that I agree with those two posts though.