/in-vitational 2 - Chosen, Karaoke - Game over! before 830

[MiteyMouse]

Wow...ot much happened while I was gone. I would be all for a Nik lynch right now and would drop the hammer but, I want to get as much as we can out of today.

[Incognito]

Vote Count #4 of Day 3

Nikanor (2) <-~ Papa Zito, Zorblag

Not voting (3) <-~ MiteyMouse, Nikanor, Scien

With 5 living, 3 will do it.

Monday, September 21st at 7 P.M. EDT.

[Nikanor]

Wow...ot much happened while I was gone. I would be all for a Nik lynch right now and would drop the hammer but, I want to get as much as we can out of today.

So are you going to actually try to get something out of the day, or are you just going to say you'd like something more out of today, then continue lurking?
Scummy.

[Papa Zito]

So Nikanor, who is your top suspect and why aren't you voting him/her?

[Scien]

Yes please to Zito's question...

1) Papa Zito: If he were Cojin's buddy, I doubt he would come up with such a thing. If he wanted to bus Cojin into oblivion, I can't see any reason for him to make up something like that to make Cojin appear more town. (As I'm writing this, I see that the Cojin suicide theory doesn't work here, either. Cojin wouldn't feign a mistake if he were trying to commit suicide, unless he were Zorblag's partner [see below]).
2) Zorblag: The fact that he almost immediately pointed out the mistake as a fabrication means nothing to me. I would have done the same as scum. I think that if Zorblag is scum, and he made up the mistake plan, he would have some very good reasons for pointing out the mistake immediately. For one, he would gain town brownie points for calling out something that would inevitably be called out, avoiding suspicion for nearly the entire game. Secondly, he would be able to sew confusion among the town by accusing the wafflers (namely Scien and I) of waffling, futher avoiding suspicion and setting up possible future lynches. I believe that as scum, Zorblag had at least a couple reasons to point out Cojin's 'mistake,' so clearing him for that is a bad idea.
3) MiteyMouse: As far as I know, she could have made up the mistake. However, many people seem to be discounting her based on her meta, so I shall do the same.
4) Scien: Your waffling at the end of day one can as easily be confused town as it could be flip-flopping scum. I consider it a nulltell.

1) You have anything specifically that would have you doubt him coming up with something? I agree the bus thing seems odd, and wouldn't work with the plan. What makes you think that a scum player would wish to be sacrificed so early in a new game? I think that would be fairly odd.

2) What you say makes some sense, but in my opinion is fairly unlikely. For it to go down like you are saying you think it might have would have meant that a plan was concocted, presented, outed immediately even though the plan might have worked out saving Cojin, then hoped the town would believe that there was indeed a mistake plan and lynch for the proof. That seems fairly unlikely. What are your thoughts?

I know it seems advantageous for Zorblag to have things go down like that, but we've kind of slipped into WIFOM here, it went from accident, to planned accident, to planned outting of planned accident and hoping for a town lynch to clear you?

3) Playing devils advocate here. Why? If you have no history with her, why completely write her off because of others? You haven't been reading her critically or seriously? Why trust us?

4) You are suggesting that the only grief you might have of me is day 1 end of day actions? And that itself is merely null tell? What about the rest of my play?

I kind of get the feeling that you are either not keeping up, or don't care about many of the players here. Would you say one or both of those are accurate?

[Nikanor]

So Nikanor, who is your top suspect and why aren't you voting him/her?

I'm not sure yet. I'm wondering where Zorblag is at the moment, though.
MiteyMouse is still lurking, as usual.

My post in which I propose situations for Cojin's mistake has little to do with my suspicions. I think Cojin made the mistake for himself; that post was answering your question based on the assumption I thought Cojin wasn't intelligent enough to make the mistake himself.

[Zorblag]

Oh, Troll be about and has been commenting on things that Troll finds interesting when Troll thinks it no will get in the way of any interesting thoughts people might express. Unfortunately the game be a bit listless at the moment. Troll be comfortable with Troll's vote and mostly be waiting for the three who no have cast votes yet to make some sort of decision.

Troll no be sure what it is MiteyMouse wants to make sure we get out of this day but we no be in danger of hitting the deadline so Troll no be pushing it for now.

Troll finds Scien's behavior to be a fairly unsurprising continuation of what him has done before though Troll be watching to see what him does with Nikanor's responses to his questions (or the lack of them where it be an issue.)

Nikanor be curiously short on strong opinions just now but him can react to this situation as him chooses.

If any would like input from something in particular Troll be happy to provide it but the ball no be in Troll's court at this time in general.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MiteyMouse]

This thread seems to be stalling a bit here and though, I wanted to get more info out of today, I'd be willing to drop the hammer if the people that I think are Town think I should.

[Zorblag]

Troll no be sure if Troll counts as one that MiteyMouse thinks be town but Troll thinks that MiteyMouse controls her own vote. Troll be responsible for how Troll votes and casts it without asking for permission as Troll sees fit. If either Troll or Papa Zito thought hammering Nikanor were a bad idea now them no should have their votes on him. On the other hand Troll no will push the hammer now and would prefer to have MiteyMouse make a decision and give reasons on her own rather than having her do as someone else says. If there be other particular things that MiteyMouse had hoped to see today then perhaps doing something more active to make them seen would be of use.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Scien]

Going to answer my last round of questions Nik? You're still my vote.

Is that all you are willing to share of your current views Mitey? Answer this if you would, how would you get more out of the day by sitting back like you have? You've been quiet, and that seems like normal play from you in both alignments, but are you content to just sit and watch the game percolate? If you want more out of the day, why are you just threatening the hammer, and not engaging where you think we should engage?

Oh... pretty much just rewording of Zorblag there... but in a more accusatory way.

[Nikanor]

Well, the things you questioned me about are on a hypothetical situation which I don't believe happened. I think that Cojin could have easily made the mistake himself, and I have no idea why you all are putting so much stock into this notion.
So really, I see no point in answering your questions. I'm still trying to decide who the last scum is. It depends on what I flip, honestly. I'm going to do a reread to decide.

[Scien]

Um... no?

Every single one of my questions is directed to

your

thoughts. Not anything about what I believe.

I am asking you to explain to me some of the things that you said about what

you

believe.

Did you read any of the questions? What you are claiming doesn't make sense.

[Nikanor]

I am asking you to explain to me some of the things that you said about what you believe.

No, I meant that I wrote that post even though it didn't follow what I believe. That post was about possibilities regarding the Cojin 'mistake'. Since none of those possibilities are ones I truely think to be the case, I can't really answer questions about them. Does that make more sense?
Also, those things that I said are not indicative of my opinion of that person on a whole. In order to provide that opinion for you, I must finish a reread.

[Scien]

I think I understand what you are saying... but don't understand how it applys.

You say that you don't think PapaZ would plan some hypothetical. I ask what makes you think that...

You say that an action of Zorblags would make sense from scum in some case, I ask you how likely that case is.

Those two I get why you would have the griefs you describe... however I still think that they are worthy of answering, and are now based on what you have said is your take on things, and less about whether the mistake took place.

However these following questions are removed from that entirely:

You are willing to just believe town when they say something about meta? You don't have your own opinions of her from what she has done in this game?

You have a null tell on me, based on waffling but that is it? Rereading for more information? You have no thoughts at the moment about me or others?

---

The final question I asked above also meant nothing in terms of any hypothetical...
"I kind of get the feeling that you are either not keeping up, or don't care about many of the players here. Would you say one or both of those are accurate?"

I would add to that now. I would say, I also get the feeling that tossing out a bunch of hypothetical in defense and then refusing to talk about it on grounds that it was hypothetical is pretty funny.

[Scien]

Sigh this is pointless.

We hit you as scum, we win.

We hit you as vanillia, townie, I think we have our victory in my lynch.

We hit you as Chosen, we have more information and in my mind realize that this mistake plan thing needs some looking at.

As it stands now, I believe the mistake plan scenario, you were the last possible suspect. You have had time to win me over by attacking my assumptions. You have had time to attack others about the assumptions they want me to believe.

You have been under pressure and have remained fairly silent or tossing out stuff that you yourself don't even want to talk about.

Your lynch is the best option I believe. I hope you are not chosen.

Vote: Nikanor

[Incognito]

Nikanor (3) <-~ Papa Zito, Zorblag, Scien

Not voting (2) <-~ MiteyMouse, Nikanor

With 5 living, 3 will do it.

---

Death scene coming soon.

---

Nikanor, Karaoke Singer, lynched Day 3

It is now Night 3. Please have your Night action in to me within 72 hours. Thanks.

[Incognito]

Gonna start Day early since obvious Night actions are obvious.

---

Nobody has died Night 3.

It is now Day 4. With 4 alive, 3 will do it.
Deadline for Day 4 is Thursday, October 1st at 7 P.M. EDT.

[Papa Zito]

Yah.

One scum, two Chosen, one VT.

50/50 shot of winning this thing.

[MiteyMouse]

Hmmm...not this is an interesting state for this game.

I want to kind of steal an idea from Zorblag with our last Chosen game. He suggested and then really explained it in the after party that getting the Scum might not be as important as keeping the Chosen alive. I mean at this point, the Scum cannot win with the Chosens alive right? So, it may be in our best interest to place a safe, less likely to be Chosen vote as opposed to getting the Scummy.

Thoughts?

[Papa Zito]

A lynch of the VT or the scum means a town win, so I'm cool either way. We'd have to identify the VT somehow to do it.

Based on a reread, I think the setup is:

MiteyMouse: Chosen
Papa Zito: Chosen
Scien: Scum
Zorblag: VT

Let's all post these and see if we can find a common thread.

[Zorblag]

The Sajin kill on night two continues to be as troublesome for Troll as anything else that has happened this game. We now be left with four players who all know each other reasonably well. Exactly one of the four of us be a vanilla townie who, based on everything that Troll saw from Sajin, should have been a better kill night two. Sajin was most likely town but him was also reasonably like to be taken for possibly being the chosen. Someone that be left seems to have been working to get an endgame with these players (or not trying to avoid it) which seems that it should be the sub-optimal play for anyone here.

Troll has gotten essentially no attacks throughout the game and it no particularly be for lack of trying on Troll's part. Troll thinks that Troll should be at least as likely to be the vanilla townie as anyone else. If Troll be a chosen it would explain why Troll still be alive but the night kills seem to be designed to take such arguments away from anyone here.

MiteyMouse probably be the one that would be most likely to leave this collection of people for the end game but Troll just has trouble with the idea that she and Cojin would cross-bus so vigorously in the early game. She do be pegged as likely chosen as of now by most but that process no finished until after both the night kills happened. For now Troll will say that chosen be the most likely role for her especially is it fits so well with Cojin voting for her.

Scien and Papa Zito then be the most likley to be scum in Troll's opinion. If it be Papa Zito him must have been willing to aggressively bus Cojin right from the start of the game and never try to get a chosen lynched unless Scien be a chosen. Him would have to think that him would both be able to avoid lynch himself and get one of the two chosen lynched today though him could pretty easily have been setting up to lynch MiteyMouse after day one as chosen.

With Scien it be a matter of deciding whether him would be willing to spend the entire game as passively as him has. The vote for Nikanor no was all that bold as MiteyMouse was likely to vote for her anyhow and neither Papa Zito nor Troll had given much indication that them would be switching to anyone else other than perhaps Scien (and even that be a stretch.) If him be scum his initial tentativeness probably cost him the chance to act in a manipulative way later on as him was in a spot where him had to defend or actively go against what the more active/agressive players were doing to push any chosen lynch. The trouble be that this be worse play than Troll thinks him should do as scum.

Troll supposes that Troll thinks the most likely scenario be the one Papa Zito came up with but it still makes Troll uncomfortable. If Scien be scum then either Troll or Papa Zito should be vanilla and should be dead by now and that clearly no be the case.

Troll still be thinking this over.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Papa Zito]

Troll supposes that Troll thinks the most likely scenario be the one Papa Zito came up with but it still makes Troll uncomfortable. If Scien be scum then either Troll or Papa Zito should be vanilla and should be dead by now and that clearly no be the case.

This part is bugging me too.

[Zorblag]

We actually no have to be fairly sure that someone be the vanilla townie if we be trying to win simply be avoiding chosen (which currently be by default easier than trying to win by lynching scum as the set of wins for that be a super set of the set of wins from lynching scum.) Rather we just have to be fairly sure that someone be either the vanilla townie or scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Scien]

I want to kind of steal an idea from Zorblag with our last Chosen game. He suggested and then really explained it in the after party that getting the Scum might not be as important as keeping the Chosen alive. I mean at this point, the Scum cannot win with the Chosens alive right? So, it may be in our best interest to place a safe, less likely to be Chosen vote as opposed to getting the Scummy.

It doesn't matter if we go for scum or go for the vanilla townie. All that maters is that we accurately hit one of them. Using the best information to get us to one of them is key here. If its easier to find the VT we go for him, if it is easier to find the scum we gof for him.

Let's all post these and see if we can find a common thread.

I have tried to put my thoughts down 5 times now. Its hard.

Here is what I am sure of.

Zorblag is chosen or scum. One or the other. He shouldn't be alive and yet lives. We should not touch him. If he is chosen btw, why oh why did he not get a veto since there is a scum in present company.

PapaZ is probably protown. I don't know if he is chosen or townie but he is probably protown.

Mitey I don't know. I could see arguments for her from all roles.

I am townie or chosen. I'm not sure of which anymore. I have caught flack this game. But not a lot of it... I have played poorly and caught some interest... but nothing really huge except on day 3.

How sure are you guys are that I am scum? If you assumed that I was not scum would you see me as vanilla or chosen? I ask because I am still fighting if I should be the lynch. Someone could vote me, and see if I was hammered... if not I would be confirmed vanilla or scum, and the town could finish me for the win. Risky...

[Scien]

Of course we could do that with anyone... actually we should probably find the person with the highest combined vanilla/scum chance...