Mini 845 - The Amish Village (Game Over)

[magnus_orion]

damn quotes

[chamber]

I'm going to assume you believe those to be mutually exclusive or something along those lines?
He didn't move his vote. He unvoted. My wagon wasn't hurtling toward a lynch at the time either.

Also, his next vote is on miteymouse. Based on what he says when he unvotes me, its highly likely he was already planning on switching to MM once he waited a little. The reasons he gives when he does vote MM are very limited.

He moved it like 12 hours later, and you yourself say he was setting it up at the point of his unvote.

[Herodotus]

@Magnus
I have two previous games with Claus. My opinion is that in this game, he's opaque. I can't read him very well, but there are two things working in his favor:
1. He has accused a player (le Chat) who would otherwise be going under the radar.
2. His posting in this game has a similar feel to his posting in Betrayal Mafia, where he was town. Lots of questions, a wide view, and some long posts. The biggest difference is that in that game, he was doing more votecount analysis than he is in this game... but due to something that I'm not allowed to discuss, this is not a reason to suspect him.
I also noticed that he voted Magnus after I changed from a random to a real vote, then he voted MiteyMouse in his next post after I did. But I don't find that scummy; I think it's more likely we find similar things suspicious about some other players.
I'd give him 10% on a scale from No Read to Definite Town.

There were a number of reasons why some time passed before I unvoted you, but the main one is that my vote ≠ my attention.
The post in which I voted Mitey was an ISO-read. It was short because she hasn't posted much, meaning there wasn't much on which to comment. I'm not going to write essays.

[magnus_orion]

herodotus's response doesn't feel like scum...
Alright, fine

unvote

But upon a bit of game review and recent activities,

vote: claus

this has very little grounding as of yet, but claus has vote hoped a bit and I'm starting to get scummy vibes from him.

Could claus please help me alleviate my paranoia by stating opinions in regards to nuwen?

[VP Baltar]

Got a bit behind here, catching up now:

If MM's 276 doesn't sound like noob scum making excuses, then I don't really know what will ever convince you she's scum.

Le Chat: Your previous post is an improvement. But I can expect that after I hounded you so much you would try to improve anyway. Your ISO 4 is nice because you explicitly says who you suspect, but I found that your suspicion at the time was kinda "too safe". Mind you, right now two of my suspects are the same as yours, so that counts points for you. Either you're town and I'm wrong, or you are distancing from Chamber-scumpartner, and I'm fine with that too.

This post kind of stinks to me. I'm fine with going after le Chat, but this really sounds like "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

Chamber's post 301 looks good in my eyes (as well as the previous leading posts). I'm not really seeing the difference that magnus is trying to point out.

But upon a bit of game review and recent activities,

vote: claus

this has very little grounding as of yet, but claus has vote hoped a bit and I'm starting to get scummy vibes from him.

This is ridiculously awful. You have no reason you can state why other than vote hopping "a bit", so you switch your vote?

I'm pretty sure magnus is flexing under the pressure. I also don't think much of him trying to chain people together without seeing a flip. I generally find that scummy behavior on Day 1.

I'd still like to hear more from Oj.

Mod, please prod Nuwen again, thanks

[Amished]

Mod Votecount 1-13

Chamber (3): Kairyuu; Artem; le Chat;
MiteyMouse (3): VP Baltar; Herodotus; Claus
Rosso Carne (2): Nuwen; MiteyMouse
Kairyuu (1): Chamber
Claus (1): magnus_orion

Not voting (2): Rosso_Carne; Ojanen

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


Nuwen has been prodded.

[magnus_orion]

I'm pretty sure magnus is flexing under the pressure. I also don't think much of him trying to chain people together without seeing a flip. I generally find that scummy behavior on Day 1.

*raises eyebrow*
why do you find that scummy behavior? That's how I've had most of my success on day 1.

[VP Baltar]

Because it is a convenient out. If you are saying I find player X scummy because I find player Y scummy and they are interacting with each other in a funny way, then you are essentially basing your opinion on absoultely nothing other than your original suspicion. If you truly find player Y scummy, then why not just lynch that player and see if you were right. You can then judge if your suspicions of buddying are accurate or not.

As you are going now, if we lynched Player X because you find their interactions with another player scummy, then it gives you a chance to say "oh well, guess I was reading their interactions wrong" and essentially take no accountability for it.

I understand the desire to find more than one scum at a time, but in my opinion of mafia theory it's pointless to do on Day 1 when you haven't seen any flips yet.

[magnus_orion]

Its been my opinion that I have been successful in doing so.
I am also of the belief that I am not in charge of the lynch, nor do I pretend to be. The town's majority chooses who to lynch, and the town is playing rather poorly if they use their votes to lynch just to check one player's reads. (ignoring roles like cops, of course)

[VP Baltar]

And that was a weak reply to the argument I am making. We only get one lynch a day. Why not lynch the player you think is scummiest rather than someone you see as related to them? And, as I said before, without an alignment flip you have no way of telling if you are correct or not. Regardless of your opinion on its efficacy.

[Rosso Carne]

still willing to get ont the tail end of MM

[magnus_orion]

And that was a weak reply to the argument I am making. We only get one lynch a day. Why not lynch the player you think is scummiest rather than someone you see as related to them? And, as I said before, without an alignment flip you have no way of telling if you are correct or not. Regardless of your opinion on its efficacy.

Oh yes, I was talking about past games, where my feelings on day 1 were confirmed in the following days, long after i had been killed on night 1. Of course I can't know I'm correct until someone flips. I'm talking about my own statistical evidence supporting my bias, which could be a large coincidence. I can't know I'm right until the flip, but that doesn't mean I cannot be right, or be confident I'm right.

And who said I was planning on lynching someone because I link them to a scummier player? Of course the scummiest player (what defines scummy being up for debate) should be lynched. However, that doesn't mean that I don't think that if I can link several players together that it ups their collective scumminess dramatically.

So, are you going to argue with my playstyle, explain why you think its scummy, or search for scum? One of the later 2 is preferable, as the first does nothing to attempt to accomplish the town's win-condition.

[Ojanen]

Nuwen is scummy in iso.

Low contribution. Notable almost complete lack of tangible stances on players, except of the statement of voting magnus, which was changed to policy wagon on Rosso. Tendency to comment game events by talking about theory without taking a stance on scumminess of players (iso 0, iso 10).
Contradiction:

Or we could stick it to The Man (insert your being of choice here if not The Man) and kill him off. I like that idea. Intentionally provocative players irk me in a way

that isn't alignment-oriented in the slightest.

I knew ABR would be with me on this one.

unvote, vote Rosso

GO GO GADGET WAGON

That's a terrible post, MM, for someone of ANY alignment. You've played in enough games that you should know full well that scuminess is sink or swim, and doing something to intentionally draw attention or behave in a visibly scummy way

will

get you lynched. Trying to plead personal meta will not trump the necessity of keeping the site meta squeaky clean: lynching players for behaving scummily is a fundamental component of mafia.

And at what point do you plan on taking some action toward this?

for someone of ANY alignment

of ANY alignment

ANY alignment

Are you really trying to goad a non-alignment-specific policy lynch

?

After this hypocritical tone and VP asking about the contradiction she disappeared and hasn't posted content since.

Needs votes.

vote: Nuwen

[Herodotus]

I'm confused. What players is Magnus trying to chain together (you mean accuse groups of people of being scumbuddies, right?) I don't see where Magnus is trying to do that, at least not yet.

[le Chat]

I do believe he means magnus' move from Hero (you) to Claus in 303. It is an interesting discussion bu I dunno what I can take from it.

Still kinda v/la as I'm stuck in ATL due to a car wreck. What an amazingly ridiculous weekend.

Understand oj's vote on Nuwen and I will

unvote vote Nuwen

as well for now. Want to have Nuwen jump back into the game, I believe I expressed similar opinion in my last post.

Rosso, how do you feel about Claus? Do you agree with Magnus' expressed opinions in 303, or Hero's earlier that Claus looks good for focusing on me who might otherwise be "under the radar?" I just know you're still up for a MM hammer.

And MM what's up on your end?

[magnus_orion]

It

was

Hero and Claus, but Hero eliminated my suspicions of him. However, my imagined link between the two of them had caused me to further investigate Claus, and I saw reason to vote him independently, if that makes sense. Its very little, but its the only reasonable thing I have at the moment to go on, and I intend to follow it through and interrogate.
So, to repeat myself, I'd like to hear Claus's opinion on Nuwen.

[VP Baltar]

Basically, le Chat is correct in terms of what I was referring to. However, I'm willing to accept that it may just be a difference in theoretical approach. I still don't like it because even in the above example where you stopped suspected hero, it means that you were lead to claus under a false presmise and may just be filling in details to fit that false premise. That being said, it's certainly not something I'm willing to lynch over.

Nuwen and MM, however, need to post or die. I'm down for the current bandwagon.

Unvote, Vote: Nuwen

[Artem]

Nuwen and MM, however, need to post or die. I'm down for the current bandwagon.

Unvote, Vote: Nuwen

Agreed, but

Unvote; Vote: MM

. (L-3)

[Amished]

Nuwen has not picked up her prod. She has til tomorrow night until her next prod is sent. If that isn't responded to, she will be replaced, and the deadline will most likely be extended.

That is all for now.

[Rosso Carne]

I do believe he means magnus' move from Hero (you) to Claus in 303. It is an interesting discussion bu I dunno what I can take from it.

Still kinda v/la as I'm stuck in ATL due to a car wreck. What an amazingly ridiculous weekend.

Understand oj's vote on Nuwen and I will

unvote vote Nuwen

as well for now. Want to have Nuwen jump back into the game, I believe I expressed similar opinion in my last post.

Rosso, how do you feel about Claus? Do you agree with Magnus' expressed opinions in 303, or Hero's earlier that Claus looks good for focusing on me who might otherwise be "under the radar?" I just know you're still up for a MM hammer.

And MM what's up on your end?

To answer your question, I'm not all about a claus lynch. c-man is helpful, and maybe a bit above the game right now, but I dont get the scummy vibes I sometimes do with someone like this.

Theory note: sper helpful people like that sometimes give off scum vibes since they are JUST SO HELPFUL and it seems like they know the setup. he scumminess comes from this idea, they know the setup becsue they are scum themselves.

I dont feel this from claus, but anyone with a better meta might be of help.

[VP Baltar]

Oi, MM, what are you thoughts on who is scum? What do you think of the wagon on you?

What is your reply to this:

@Mitey: I was under the impression you IC rather a lot. How do you deal with day ones there?

[magnus_orion]

Theory note: sper helpful people like that sometimes give off scum vibes since they are JUST SO HELPFUL and it seems like they know the setup. he scumminess comes from this idea, they know the setup becsue they are scum themselves

I assume you're meaning for this to be applicable to the context of this game in relation to claus? I mean you aren't saying this meaninglessly, right? Do you believe I should have reason from claus's posts to think that he knows the setup?

[Rosso Carne]

can we get more votes on mm os i can HAMMAH! him please?

[magnus_orion]

-_-
There's no reason for you to blatantly ignore that question.

[Rosso Carne]

Theory note: sper helpful people like that sometimes give off scum vibes since they are JUST SO HELPFUL and it seems like they know the setup. he scumminess comes from this idea, they know the setup becsue they are scum themselves

I assume you're meaning for this to be applicable to the context of this game in relation to claus? I mean you aren't saying this meaninglessly, right? Do you believe I should have reason from claus's posts to think that he knows the setup?

sorry, didnt even realize that was my own quote.

yeah, since it was a response to the post i quoted. Its possible, becuase claus is just so helpful, but in this case I myself done feel it.