Mini 855: Colorless Rainbow Town (Halted for list mod error)

[Scien]

Before you made that post the pressure on me was merely Skruffs...

You are saying my defending myself is scummy now? What was the alternative... to not address concerns directed at me? How is that working for you...

[Scien]

Also, Rai. Are you caught up? You effectively told me to wait asking you questions because you were not caught up. I was waiting to continue our discussion until you did so. So far, you have been coming in and making the same self preservation posts.

(We can add the vote on me because I have suspicions on him, and the agreeing with Skruffs so far because he seems to be favorable towards Rai to my earlier comment that you think anything against you is scummy and anything positive towards you is townie)

This does read like scum hopping on a wagon to me. Sure he has posted his reasons but it reads like he doesn't really believe them.

I believe them. I want to discuss them with you. I was trying to give you some time for you to catch up.

Would you like to address some of my and the town's concerns here? Here are mine, I think the rest of the town was just harping on one though:

The town read is suspicious (even if I am dittoing everyone).
The jumping on d3x while feeling Fuzzy pro-town is suspicious.
The mistake about Manz vote placement, is curious.
The unexplained first dx3 "scummy post", is curious.

How can you have had a town read on Fuzzy when he made two posts?
Why did you think that Manz voted Monkey before your post in 123?
What was dx3's first scummy post in your eyes?
Why do you think the play of dx3 is scummy vs Fuzzy's play before post 125?

These are the reasons I am voting you. I would like to discuss them with you. But I was under the impression you were catching up. Apparently I was wrong, and I should have been pressuring you more for answers. Would you like to talk now?

[Scien]

sigh... that last quote block was me.

[cruelty]

Well at least your not fencesitting anymore.
Just hoping on the popular wagon with a reason that I've been drawing conclusions on day 1.

Actually I believe I was the first to call you out for your weird town read on Fuzzyman. I refrained from voting (and I stated as much) because I wanted more discussion.

Eventually you made your WIFOM post, which I replied to and in the process voted for you.

This isn't hopping on the popular bandwagon - I was suspicious of you before the wagon started and my posts will prove this. I find it reassuring that you're accusing me of doing this though, trying to insinuate my voting is scummy (or questionable) rather than defending yourself? It's subtle OMGUS.

@cruelty: So is it ok to lynch town just because they come off scummy? That's basically what you are saying here. It's almost like you know a mislynch is going to happen on him and want an out.

That's not what I said. I think he is scummy... I'm not 100%. Right now, in my mind he's the most likely candidate to be mafia. Hence my vote.

Re: lynching town, no. I am not giving myself an out. All I meant was that if he is town then the way he is behaving is hugely counter-productive. Could probably have been more clear.

[Scien]

All I meant was that if he is town then the way he is behaving is hugely counter-productive. Could probably have been more clear.

Agree. Him talking about the town's concerns would help.

Raivann?

[d3x]

Mod- Has hero responded to his prod? Also, jason said he'd be back by yesterday morning. Can we get a prod on him, please?

@all- I'll hopefully be able to post more on pertinent discussion later this afternoon. I'm still confident with my read/Vote on Raivann.

[jasonT1981]

Mod- Has hero responded to his prod? Also, jason said he'd be back by yesterday morning. Can we get a prod on him, please?

@all- I'll hopefully be able to post more on pertinent discussion later this afternoon. I'm still confident with my read/Vote on Raivann.

I spoke to the Mod yesterday informing him of what is going on. I am currently in out of hospital receiving treatment. Don't want to replace out though. Am slowly trying to get through this games posts.

[d3x]

#1 priority is to get better, man. Rest up and when you can make it, we'll be here.

[Josh Lyman]

MOD NOTE:

My laptop and phone were stolen yesterday; as a result, my net access is going to be exetremely limited for a while. I've requested a replacement for myself. Please accept my apologies.

Also, I have not heard from Hero; I am going to have to let the New Mod get that replacement.

[Raivann]

Also, Rai. Are you caught up? You effectively told me to wait asking you questions because you were not caught up. I was waiting to continue our discussion until you did so. So far, you have been coming in and making the same self preservation posts.

(We can add the vote on me because I have suspicions on him, and the agreeing with Skruffs so far because he seems to be favorable towards Rai to my earlier comment that you think anything against you is scummy and anything positive towards you is townie)

This does read like scum hopping on a wagon to me. Sure he has posted his reasons but it reads like he doesn't really believe them.

I believe them. I want to discuss them with you. I was trying to give you some time for you to catch up.

Would you like to address some of my and the town's concerns here? Here are mine, I think the rest of the town was just harping on one though:

The town read is suspicious (even if I am dittoing everyone).
The jumping on d3x while feeling Fuzzy pro-town is suspicious.
The mistake about Manz vote placement, is curious.
The unexplained first dx3 "scummy post", is curious.

How can you have had a town read on Fuzzy when he made two posts?
Why did you think that Manz voted Monkey before your post in 123?
What was dx3's first scummy post in your eyes?
Why do you think the play of dx3 is scummy vs Fuzzy's play before post 125?

These are the reasons I am voting you. I would like to discuss them with you. But I was under the impression you were catching up. Apparently I was wrong, and I should have been pressuring you more for answers. Would you like to talk now?

Yeah,
How can you have had a town read on Fuzzy when he made two posts?

Answered already.

Why did you think that Manz voted Monkey before your post in 123?

I didn't look when Manz voted. I know MM voted Manz early then Manz voted MM, then they both unvoted each other. But to tell truth the whole argument was kinda boring to me, I might have posted without really knowing who was saying what. I knew MM made his post about poss. scum roles then d3x and Manz argued with him about it.
Didn't you agree with MM that I should summarize a case on Manz?

What was dx3's first scummy post in your eyes?

I screwed up here, I went back and read d3x and that was only scummy post i could find, hence my unvote. I was thinking there was somethin in the posts where he was questioning MM, but yeah there wasn't.

Why do you think the play of dx3 is scummy vs Fuzzy's play before post 125?
d3x was for his case against me, but I have changed my views on d3x.

Would you support a Zeenon lynch, Scien?

[jasonT1981]

ok first off

unvote Hero

very interesting start to the game with the discussion about roles from the get go. i do agree with Monkey in post 14 that knowing the scum roles can help the town. but I also see a bit of role fishing going on I think. though his post 15 seemed to be a misrep of Manzcar as it was he interested in the roles and not Manzcar as he suggested. I don't think Manzcar was showing much concern over roles and you jumped all over him... I see you being alot more concerned about roles than Manzcar to be honest Monkey.


Manzcars post in post 36 is interesting. all he did was question your motives and you are all over him as if he is concerned about roles. I still see you doing the bulk of the conversation. Post 37 Monkey completly ignores Manzcars as for evidence and only talks about OMGUS.

OK bottom of page 2 now and Monkey is seeming very jumpy to me to be honest, I don't think it was antagonistic as discussed at top of page 3. I really believe Monkey is making to much out of nothing really. It seems like he is going guns blazing on Manzcar for him asking a question.

Monkeys post 61 saying the question shows anti-town position... how? all he asked is what does it matter what roles are out there?

Zeenon comes in with lots of votes and unvotes here and then im the middle of discussion votes Monkey for mispelling his name... in the middle of serious discussion he is adding nothing.

Note to Zeenon... PLEASE STOP with the changing colors its annoying.

Zeenons post 68- It seems town vs town arguement wise.. but Monkey is leaning more towartds town?? umm what?

post 71 again by Zeenon states he sees Sciens questioing as both pro-town and scummy? how is this?

post 74 by Monkey I agree with, town can look scummy alot more than the actualscum. usually scum sit back and let towns folks take the fall for being scummy.

onto page 4 now

post 76... Monkey talks about hammering and not hammering... quite early to be discussing that is it not? however yes I agree when he says it is too early to be calling for a lynch. I want to see more evidence than rolefishing.

Raivann in on action now, saying he does not like Manzcars posting about jumping all over monkey, seems like a bandwagon jump to me really. D3X in the very next post asks him to point out where it occured... I also want to know this. Raivanns response is the last 4 pages... I don't buy that at all.

Post 84 Monkey says Manzcar has not made a vaild point against him and his vote is an OMGUS.. well I am yet to see much valid points against Manzcar really from Monkey apart from saying he jumped all over me.

it os now post 87... Manzcar asking for Monkey to post his case. I also want to see a case other than ' rolefishing and jumped all over me'

monkey in post 89 tells him to read the thread.. well as I am reading it you have yet to lay out a case really.

page 5 now

Ah nice post by Fuzzy and a vote also... I actually like this vote as it does seem Zeenon is not wanting to take responsibility. Zeenon is saying it is to avoid a quick lynch.. I doubt by the stage Zeenon unvoted a quick lynch would have happened. I dont buy his explination.

Scien's post in 104 is very interesting. I get am getting a town vibe off him right now. He seems to be looking at things rationally rather than jumping all over someone for rolefishing.

Monkey... post 106 says Raivann should lay out the case instead of him.. very bad post here i feel, seems like he is now wanting to avoid responsibility as he has been asked to lay out a case and is yet to put out a convincing one

Scien asks in post 108 for monkey to lay out the case.. again requests for a case are ignored..

Post 103... you say Manzcar is doing everything to discredit you without taking on the actual arguement... I actually see you doing this your self as you have been asked many times to provide your case... the points you make in 103 are weak at best I feel.

post 122... Monkey unvotes and asks again for someone else to lay out the case he has been asked to lay out manytimes.. it reallyn seems like he is avoiding doing this for some reason and shifting responsibility.

post 123... by Raivann. another scummy post by D3x, where was the first? and why when asked quite a few times have you not laid out a case against MZ, seems you ignored it completly in your post. I think I can buy D3x's reasons for unvoting, we where clearly out of RVS by then

page 6 now. Rai is leaning towards scum D3X and town Fuzzy... umm by this stage fuzzy aint said very much, why is fuzzy coming across as town to you? nice ask as to why Monkey unvotes though.

post 127 Monkey says he is building his case on Manzcar.. I am yet to see one despite numerous pleas from people to list one!!! Raivann's post 128 is classic avoidance of a question at best.


cruelty asks the question i have been wondering myself and mentioned about about how Rai can see Fuzzy as town considering Fuzzy has posted so little.D3x asks has he no response to the rest of post 124.. seems like avoidance again to me by Rai

Zeenons posts 140,- 154... ARGH... why the constant changing of colors? that orange is soo bloody hard to read.


Monkeys 158 is a misrep of fuzzy. He was in no way suggesting people should not vote for who they think are scummy.


Monkey 163.. no one is twisting words, you misrepped fuzzys comments. if anyone you twisted words

Hmmm, just wondering why we have not heard a peep from Hero so far.. he is usually very opinionated.

FOS HERO

Page 8 now.

I like Scien's 183.. I am getting a town read off him as he seems controlled and level headed in all this madness.

post 178 Fuzzy asks Rai to show Dx3's first scummy post if he his post was 'another scummy one'

Monkey jumps on the Raivann bandwagon,Monkey spends alot of time saying he doesnt want a quick lynch yet puts Rai at -2... interesting... Ah, I see Dizzle points this out in his next post.Monkey seems to avoid this... Again avoidance from Monkey Why?

Ah finally an answer in 196

Page 9 post 200... why do you want your vote on record? surely voting is putting it on record.. it seems you want to draw attentioin to your vote incase Rai flips scum. It seems you are trying to hard to be town in this post.

Manzcar replaces out? BAH!!!

Scien in post 207 makes a great point, I missed Monkey saying this... why would you ask who you think are the top 3 town players? surely asking who you think is scum is a better question.You reply with any info is good for town... umm where you not all over Manzcar for wanting info on roles... that could help the town no? quite hypocritical

218 by Rai says abourt voting him because he gets a town read on someone... he had made 2 small posts. how did you get a town read.. you have been asked this before and failed to answer,

Page 10

229 Raivann unvotes D3x saying his opinion has changed but fails to give his reasons why. ah again you see Fuzzy as pro-town yet fuzzy has been quite inactive. I agree with you about seeing Monkey and Zee as scum though I am not rulling out possible bussing here.

Still waiting on Hero

238 Rai calls Cruelty on jumping on his wagon... I don't think it is a wagon hop, you have seemed very scummy to me his 248 vote for Scien he accuses him also of hopping on the wagon. He is really reaching out with OMGUS right here.

hmmm, you say in 259 that you have answered how you have pro-town on fuzzy after 2 small posts. I didnt see one?

OK, right now I am getting scum feels on Rai and Monkey.. Rai more so, I think Monkey is really jumpy though. both are avoiding questions and have been called on it many times. I do think Rai is the better chance of hitting scum though.

vote Raivann

Zeenon, please stop changing colors every post it is really annoying, including the light posts that are hard to read.

My appoligigies to everyone for my inactivity. I will explain, I am currently in and out of hospital for rehab on my back and knee which are basically screwed up to high hell right now. When I have got near a computer I am dosed up on 4 types of painkillers which really impares my judgement and preception. I have stayed off the tablets to read this... I am now going to take them now I am caught up. But I really do think we will hit scum with Rai.

I have not quoted anything as I got accussed in my last game of Mastin posting... eep

[Dizzle]

#1 priority is to get better, man. Rest up and when you can make it, we'll be here.

Um, no. I don't know about you guys, but IRL I never have to decide whether or not to lynch random strangers. MS is obviously the #1 priority....JK, glad to see you're back and relatively healthy Jason.

I honestly don't have much to add at this point other than I think Scien defended himself well against Skruffs.

Also

Would you support a Zeenon lynch, Scien?

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a somewhat random, blatant and desperate attempt to get a lynch started on someone else or at least to gauge the possibility. I'm fairly certain that Raivann is scum but I would still like to get the opportunity to get these last couple of days for Raivann's "defense" and further discussion. If anyone agrees, perhaps they could unvote.

I have not quoted anything as I got accussed in my last game of

Mastin posting

... eep

Is this a typo or am I just unfamiliar with this term?

[jasonT1981]

not a typo no, Mastin is notorious for huge posts with text walls of quotes upon quotes that go on for miles. hence the term Mastin posting. Anyone who has played with him understands the term.

anyway, it is 2.30am here so bed is calling me, night folks, and again sorry for my inactivity. However now I am caught up it will be easier for me to keep tabs on the game

[d3x]

Is this a typo or am I just unfamiliar with this term?

Mastin is a player notorious for his massive... post length.

[Raivann]

I'm not having fun.

[Fuzzyman]

^ WTF!?

[MonkeyMan576]

Jason, I hope you get better, but I've stated the Manzcar case many times and I don't appreciate you saying I'm dodging it.

[Scien]

How can you have had a town read on Fuzzy when he made two posts? Answered already.

Eh, I'll give you that you answered. It still seems strange after your answer however, and it didn't clear my concerns. Sorry for not pulling it out of the list of my current questions to you.

[1] I didn't look when Manz voted. I know MM voted Manz early then Manz voted MM, then they both unvoted each other. But to tell truth the whole argument was kinda boring to me, I might have posted without really knowing who was saying what. I knew MM made his post about poss. scum roles then d3x and Manz argued with him about it.
[2] Didn't you agree with MM that I should summarize a case on Manz?

[1] Manz voted MM much later in that whole discussion, and I'll give you that it was boring. I mean dang, it was boring to me too. That's why I was looking elsewhere at that time. I guess my question was designed to point out that it didn't seem like you were following the game. If you were truly bored, that could be a reason why you were not doing so. Could you tell me why you think that discussion bored you?

[2] Yes. I believe a more accurate representation of what I said however was, if you are going to come in and toss suspicion towards both party's you should say way you are doing so. Here I'll quote it for everyone:

[To Monkey] Well he can [post his case on Manz] if he wishes. If he does I would like him to back up his griefs on you as well since he said he suspected you in almost the same breath as he said he suspected Manz. People shouldn't just go around tossing out suspicion without talking about it.

What was dx3's first scummy post in your eyes? I screwed up here, I went back and read d3x and that was only scummy post i could find, hence my unvote. I was thinking there was somethin in the posts where he was questioning MM, but yeah there wasn't.

This is a completely valid answer. I give you town points for admitting a mistake, and admitting that you actively went back to check for backing. You didn't try to build a weak scum case or anything.

Why do you think the play of dx3 is scummy vs Fuzzy's play before post 125?
d3x was for his case against me, but I have changed my views on d3x.

Hmm. That's almost fair too. Why did your views change?

---

Actually your answering so far helps a bunch. I would like answers for my d3x question as as well as why you were bored at game start. I am willing to unvote if you cooperate here.

Would you support a Zeenon lynch, Scien?

Hmm. I have questions to him, and he has been lurking recently. I think he is my next target for scrutiny if you answer my last two concerns above. So I have to say yes. In fact let me

FoS: Zeenon

not answering my questions, and lurking.

[still catching up with posts after 259 my thoughts on those later]

[Scien]

[Mastin post]

I don't think I see anything in there I want to question about. Most of it seems to be in line with my thoughts. I think that you are very strangely positive about me, and it could be buddying, so IGMEOY, but thats a minor grief. Get well soon, and keep on the meds lol.

I have not quoted anything as I got accussed in my last game of Mastin posting... eep

Yes you do deserve a Mastination award there. I think I have gotten a few of those in the past as well.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a somewhat random, blatant and desperate attempt to get a lynch started on someone else or at least to gauge the possibility. I'm fairly certain that Raivann is scum but I would still like to get the opportunity to get these last couple of days for Raivann's "defense" and further discussion. If anyone agrees, perhaps they could unvote.

I am aware of this possibility as well, but there is something in his last set of answers that is giving me a feel that he truly is behind this game. I guess the main thing is him owning up to a mistake that more than one person has called him out on. I think I am willing to look elsewhere at the moment. I still want my last round of questions to him answered before unvote though.

I'm not having fun.

Aw... man... don't go modkill yourself. Jeze.

[Dizzle]

I am aware of this possibility as well, but there is something in his last set of answers that is giving me a feel that he truly is behind this game.

Behind this game...what exactly does that mean? That he's giving a full effort? That you now think he might be town?

I'm not having fun.

I strongly dislike WIFOM statements like this minor complaint or his earlier one that said we'd be sorry if we lynched his poor townie butt. If you're town, defend yourself and find the real scum. If you're scum, defend yourself and find a townie to lynch or a fellow scum to bus. As Scien has noted, Raivann has actually done a better job of defending himself recently, but don't waste our time with this nonsense.

[Fuzzyman]

I'm not having fun.

I strongly dislike WIFOM statements like this minor complaint or his earlier one that said we'd be sorry if we lynched his poor townie butt. If you're town, defend yourself and find the real scum. If you're scum, defend yourself and find a townie to lynch or a fellow scum to bus. As Scien has noted, Raivann has actually done a better job of defending himself recently, but don't waste our time with this nonsense.

No, this isn't WIFOM. Look at the final rule of the ruleset.

[Skruffs]

Raivann, bartering with someone you are suspicious of looks suspicious.
Jason: Scien seeming level headed "in all this madness" should not be equated to him being town; what about his behavior seems level headed to you?
Scien; pos response coming up

[Scien]

Behind this game...what exactly does that mean? That he's giving a full effort? That you now think he might be town?

No. Sorry. I was suggesting that he is not really caught up. This could be seen as a cause for much of what I have been taking as scummy actions. If he is just merely behind, I'm willing to give him a shot to correct it.

Does him being behind make him more likely to be town? No. But it doesn't mean much of what I was thinking made him scum move to null tells. That's why I have new questions. Want to make sure my new read is correct.

Is he giving a full effort? No. He should fix this, but not giving a full effort isn't necessarily a scum tell. And I believe his recent addressing of town concerns is helpful.

If you're town, defend yourself and find the real scum. If you're scum, defend yourself and find a townie to lynch or a fellow scum to bus.

Agree. I think you should play. No sense hiding behind a mod kill. You can save yourself. Do it, or die.

[Scien]

But it doesn't mean much of what I was thinking made him scum move to null tells.

But it does mean much of what I was thinking made him scum move to null tells.

I suck at posting.

[MonkeyMan576]

How can you have had a town read on Fuzzy when he made two posts? Answered already.

Eh, I'll give you that you answered. It still seems strange after your answer however, and it didn't clear my concerns. Sorry for not pulling it out of the list of my current questions to you.

[1] I didn't look when Manz voted. I know MM voted Manz early then Manz voted MM, then they both unvoted each other. But to tell truth the whole argument was kinda boring to me, I might have posted without really knowing who was saying what. I knew MM made his post about poss. scum roles then d3x and Manz argued with him about it.
[2] Didn't you agree with MM that I should summarize a case on Manz?

[1] Manz voted MM much later in that whole discussion, and I'll give you that it was boring. I mean dang, it was boring to me too. That's why I was looking elsewhere at that time. I guess my question was designed to point out that it didn't seem like you were following the game. If you were truly bored, that could be a reason why you were not doing so. Could you tell me why you think that discussion bored you?

[2] Yes. I believe a more accurate representation of what I said however was, if you are going to come in and toss suspicion towards both party's you should say way you are doing so. Here I'll quote it for everyone:

[To Monkey] Well he can [post his case on Manz] if he wishes. If he does I would like him to back up his griefs on you as well since he said he suspected you in almost the same breath as he said he suspected Manz. People shouldn't just go around tossing out suspicion without talking about it.

What was dx3's first scummy post in your eyes? I screwed up here, I went back and read d3x and that was only scummy post i could find, hence my unvote. I was thinking there was somethin in the posts where he was questioning MM, but yeah there wasn't.

This is a completely valid answer. I give you town points for admitting a mistake, and admitting that you actively went back to check for backing. You didn't try to build a weak scum case or anything.

Why do you think the play of dx3 is scummy vs Fuzzy's play before post 125?
d3x was for his case against me, but I have changed my views on d3x.

Hmm. That's almost fair too. Why did your views change?

---

Actually your answering so far helps a bunch. I would like answers for my d3x question as as well as why you were bored at game start. I am willing to unvote if you cooperate here.

Would you support a Zeenon lynch, Scien?

Hmm. I have questions to him, and he has been lurking recently. I think he is my next target for scrutiny if you answer my last two concerns above. So I have to say yes. In fact let me

FoS: Zeenon

not answering my questions, and lurking.

[still catching up with posts after 259 my thoughts on those later]

I appreciate Scien giving Raivann a chance, but he's agreeing with some stuff that is clearly scummy. Saying that the Manzcar discussion was "boring", possibly trying to derail the Wagon with a Zeenon wagon, giving Raivann "town points" for defending himself better, when he is clearly still behind on town points overall. It's like saying someone is a good baseball player for batting .240, because he was batting .180 before. I'm questioning the logic here, and the possibility of a Raivann/Scien scum team.