Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[hitogoroshi]

@mod shouldn't it be 4 votes on Maemukli?

[Zachrulez]

@mod shouldn't it be 4 votes on Maemukli?

The votecount is correct.

[Battle Mage]

for the sake of clarity, i've PMed Zach asking if the majority required for today can be reduced to 6, given Ckool is not here, and thus cannot exercise his vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Neto can be tested tonight, because if Mae dies, we lynch him tomorrow. Mae has 1 rather glaringly obvious choice for the track, but it's her call.

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BATTLEMAGE. PUT YOUR VOTE ON MAEMUKI PLEASE. Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

I would reccomend most people do the same.

I don't totally believe the claim, but I do for the most part.

And I will break my deal with BM if it will stop a deadline no-lynch, but otherwise I am going to stick with it.

Ugh...

If the deadline wasn't a little over 12 hours away I would be starting a Kitty wagon right about now. This post is awful. Proxies are fun and cute at the start of the game but we are in a deadline situation and you are sat here trying to doge responsibility of your OWN VOTE.

The bold is extreme fence sitting. Make up your mind.

Apparently I wasn't very clear in the bold; my mistake: I'm leaning about 90% the claim is true.

Less than 12 hours left:

Unvote

Vote: Maemuki

not having the deadline-no lynch is more important. I'll make it up to BM later.

I appreciate your patience upto this point. But you must renew your vow to me now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

the double vote is fishy, and if i was a gambling man, i'd say DTMaster is responsible for this shenanigans.

BM

[yellowbunny]

Trying to write a wall of text on why Day 2 will be much harder if you guys lynch me. Half of it is done.

You wrote this Sunday...where is said wall of text?

This is one of the biggest issues I have with your play Mae...you promise content, but never deliver.

I don't see why Mea town you scum combo is so improbable. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't hyposcum CSL defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? In this case he is clearly looking for town points if Mea ever flips townie. Plus with BM being BM maybe CSL really thought the Mea wagon would take off. You say all this is improbable, I don't agree.

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me. But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

I was reading in between the lines because that is how your post felt to me. I just can't shake my unease about CSL and your whole “if Mea flips town I look better” part really rubs me the wrong way.

But that's not what you said. You said

she seems to be on the Mea wagon because it is not her wagon, unless you have some real suspicions of Mea you would like to voice Yellow? Because all I got out of your 535 was that we should lynch Mea to figure out what alignment you are. I would rather lynch you to see that.

Which is substantially different. You are backpedaling. Why?

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

How do you come to that conclusion, or are you joking here?

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

Is this due to their claims, or do you have other reasons?

[Maemuki]

This is one of the biggest issues I have with your play Mae...you promise content, but never deliver.

Neto said for me not to do it. That's life, if Neto wants to stall the discussion so much... bascially, D1 has been focused on me, you and occasionally BM. That means that pretty much 1/3 (or more) of the discussion would be completely wasted if I was lynched, right? That also means everybody has been under the radar. That means...the scum are still around.

See my logic? Everybody here has slipped under the radar, and the thing that makes me suspect you is the fact that you are throwing everythng against me, so (and this is me speculating) you can go under the radar again.

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me. But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

Why not? Buddying a townie is common scum play. Maybe he just did that and revealed more than what he wanted to.

Also, how is CSL's buddying pro-town? Why is it anti-town?

[yellowbunny]

Neto said for me not to do it.

Okay, why did you listen to him then? If you felt you had information which is important for town to know, then to hell with what anyone else says - you should post it.

D1 has been focused on me, you and occasionally BM

<stuff>

Everybody here has slipped under the radar, and the thing that makes me suspect you is the fact that you are throwing everythng against me, so (and this is me speculating) you can go under the radar again.

I never WAS under the radar, as you yourself point out, so how can I go "under the radar again"??

[yellowbunny]

Sorry, hit submit too soon.

Why not? Buddying a townie is common scum play. Maybe he just did that and revealed more than what he wanted to.

My argument boils down to this:

Buddying a townie -> logical scum move consistent with scum win condition

Defending a townie to the point of almost getting lynched yourself -> idiotic scum move inconsistent with scum win condition

Also, how is CSL's buddying pro-town? Why is it anti-town?

You are asking me to explain BOTH how CSL's buddying is pro-town and how its anti-town? I don't get what you are driving at here - are you asking me to play devil's advocate?

[Maemuki]

Okay, why did you listen to him then? If you felt you had information which is important for town to know, then to hell with what anyone else says - you should post it.

So you guys could realise how blatant anti-town that was. Noticed? Yes? Good.

I never WAS under the radar, as you yourself point out, so how can I go "under the radar again"??

Oh for god's sakes. Go under the radar for the first time then. The rest stays the same.

[yellowbunny]

Okay, why did you listen to him then? If you felt you had information which is important for town to know, then to hell with what anyone else says - you should post it.

So you guys could realise how blatant anti-town that was. Noticed? Yes? Good.

It would have been far better if you had said "Hey, Neto said something frikin' anti-town...and here is my post I promised! <insert post here>"

I never WAS under the radar, as you yourself point out, so how can I go "under the radar again"??

Oh for god's sakes. Go under the radar for the first time then. The rest stays the same

That is completely unfair. Because OTHER people are lurking, you are accusing me of making a case against you so that I can lurk in the future? You are calling my case against you scummy because of other people's actions (or lack thereof...), and not my own.

[Maemuki]

Sorry, hit submit too soon.

Happens.

My argument boils down to this:

Buddying a townie -> logical scum move consistent with scum win condition

Defending a townie to the point of almost getting lynched yourself -> idiotic scum move inconsistent with scum win condition

Agreed, but he can be newb-scum. There's always that posibility.

You are asking me to explain BOTH how CSL's buddying is pro-town and how its anti-town? I don't get what you are driving at here - are you asking me to play devil's advocate?

*facepalm*
Goodness, no. Why can we see that CSL's buddying is pro-town? What are the reasons to believe that it was anti-town instead? (in your view, of course.) If I was not clear, say it.

It would have been far better if you had said "Hey, Neto said something frikin' anti-town...and here is my post I promised! <insert post here>"

Oh live with it, won't happen anymore.

That is completely unfair. Because OTHER people are lurking, you are accusing me of making a case against you so that I can lurk in the future? You are calling my case against you scummy because of other people's actions (or lack thereof...), and not my own.

I guess we're on the same spot this time! I'm getting accused by actions that were not my own, and I don't even have a role PM to know a tiny bit more! Can you see what I mean? I'm not CSL's replacement, I should not (and won't and and can't) answer his behaviour, yet you all (*glares*) are going to lynch me either way! It makes no sense, but okay. Keep on going.

[DTMaster]

@Town
Wait what... are you guys seriously going to vote the town tracker off?

FoS on YB for not unvoting post-claim

. All PR claims today are best dealt with day 2. Deadline or not, lynching an unCCed investigation role is poor play.

@Sotty7
573: Deciding on lynching the claimed Tracker vs Doctor? Extremely scummy. The correct answer is: to lynch neither claims. Tomorrow will bring with it information and alignment flips.

FoS: Sotty7

for that statement, deadline or not.

@BM
During the time of the vote count you can see that I wasn't part of the vote wagon. But to test your theory out.

@YB
You do realize something:

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me. But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

One of the best ways to test this is to lynch you the unclaimed person to test the validity of Mae's claim.

And you are pushing for an unCCed tracker. Trackers are almost cop equivalents for the town (unless she is a Mafia Tracker). This role shouldn't be lynched and we need to test it out on day 2.

Vote: YellowBunny

[Nikanor]

I do find it unlikely that we've managed to put large bandwagons on 2 town power roles on Day 1, though. I mean, how many power roles are there, approximately, in a game this size?

Search for 'Foggy Londontown' to get an example of a game with a pair of lovers, a hider, and a doctor, all outed day one. Conveniently, there were also two scumgroups to help kill off the power roles.
Basically, the story went that we gave ourselves a false dilemma of lynching one of the power roles. That was bad, bad, bad.
Both claimed power roles are now easily tested. I suggest we go for a lynch on YB.

From my pov, I know this is a mislynch, but with CSL's budding behavior to Mae, this slot is simply to dangerous to keep around for town (think LYLO).

There you go.

Unvote. Vote: yellowbunny.

[Nikanor]

There are 6.5 hours left until deadline, folks. Get voting.
@hito: Do you have anything useful to say? Maybe a vote to throw?

[DTMaster]

@Town

Nik's meta is correct here, since both of us were in that game. x.x

Foggy London of HORRORS OH MY GOD WHY

[yellowbunny]

One of the best ways to test this is to lynch you the unclaimed person to test the validity of Mae's claim.

How does my lynch tell you anything about Mae's alignment?

From my pov, I know this is a mislynch, but with CSL's budding behavior to Mae, this slot is simply to dangerous to keep around for town (think LYLO).

There you go

Holy quoting out of context, Batman! I said this slot is too dangerous to keep around if Mae flips scum. And if you have an issue with this, why did you wait so long to post something?

hos: Nikanor

[Haylen]

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Can you explain why please?
I never said I thought Mae was confirmed town, I could be wrong, so all I know.

[Maemuki]

How does my lynch tell you anything about Mae's alignment?

Hypocrisy much?
How does my lynch tell you anything about your alignment is the question I've been asking you since, I don't know, forever?

[Nikanor]

So, in the case that we lynch Mae, and she pops scum, town should lynch me. From my pov, I know this is a mislynch, but with CSL's budding behavior to Mae, this slot is simply to dangerous to keep around for town (think LYLO).

Sorry yellowbunny, didn't mean to misrepresent there. I remember seeing the quote as I skimmed through your wall of text, and didn't reread as I pulled the quote, leading to my misunderstanding.
I'm still going to keep my vote on you, though.

[Sotty7]

I don't see why Mea town you scum combo is so improbable. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't hyposcum CSL defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? In this case he is clearly looking for town points if Mea ever flips townie. Plus with BM being BM maybe CSL really thought the Mea wagon would take off. You say all this is improbable, I don't agree.

Would hypo scum defend a townie he thought there was a weak case on? Maybe. If he had simply refrained from voting Mae and casually mentioned "yeah, I think this case is bs", your argument would make sense to me. But CSL did a hell of a lot more than that...he defended Mae so vehemently that he put himself in real danger of being lynched, and didn't back down. And unless you are going to argue that he was trying to pull of some sort of gambit, that is not consistent with a scum win condition.

?

Are you being serious here? The scum win condition isn't one dimensional otherwise we wouldn't get scum bussing other scum ever. The point of playing scum is to look as townie as possible. To some scum that is defending other townies to look better on their flip. Are you really arguing that this isn't possible?

I was reading in between the lines because that is how your post felt to me. I just can't shake my unease about CSL and your whole “if Mea flips town I look better” part really rubs me the wrong way.

But that's not what you said. You said

she seems to be on the Mea wagon because it is not her wagon, unless you have some real suspicions of Mea you would like to voice Yellow? Because all I got out of your 535 was that we should lynch Mea to figure out what alignment you are. I would rather lynch you to see that.

Which is substantially different. You are backpedaling. Why?

I'm not backpedaling.

I don't buy your reasoning for jumping on the Mae wagon when you were so apparently suspicious of BM before. Doesn't make sense to me. I don't believe you.

@Sotty7
573: Deciding on lynching the claimed Tracker vs Doctor? Extremely scummy. The correct answer is: to lynch neither claims. Tomorrow will bring with it information and alignment flips.

FoS: Sotty7

for that statement, deadline or not.

My worry is/was that no one was posting, we only had two viable wagons and now they had both claimed power roles. I never said we HAD to lynch one of them, I was worried that it would come down to one or the other. I said I would go back and look to see if I believed the claim. Note I haven't unvoted Yellowbunny though out all this. She is my preferred lynch, even more so now we have both claims out.

[yellowbunny]

@Nikanor: Fair enough - HOS retraced.

@Town: Based on the reactions thus far, it looks like Mae's claim complicates her lynch, so I doubt its going to happen. Among the competing wagons, I am the only one w/o a PR to claim - I am mere VT.

Tomorrow will be an utter cluster-fuck if we don't get a lynch off. So, as much as I hate to acquiesce to my own lynch, for the sake of town, I think its the best course of action.

vote: YB

I am inclined to believe Neto's claim.

I think Mae is scumtastic, and everyone should remember that while her lynch would have given a clue about my alignment, it doesn't work the same way in reverse. Contrary to what DT says, lynching me does not do anything to clarify the Mae situation.

I think DT is scum too. Actually, all things considered, he'd be my top pick for a lynch today - if I were a vig, he'd so be dead right now. You will note he was not on the scum list he asked for -- omission was on purpose. I was hoping he'd back off me for a little bit and we could lynch someone else (someone who was maybe actually scum) and realized that attacking him would prevent that from happening...and then I could mount my case against him on D2.

Look at how hard DT tunnels on me today. Once I pop town, over N1, reread his posts, and you will see how unfair his attacks are. He either twists my words, or ignores explanations when he cannot do that...repeatedly pounding on the same points I've already addressed. He puts me in a catch-22 repeatedly...if I try to address CSL's behavior, I'm scummy cuz I'm trying too hard. If I don't I'm scummy for not answering the question. Torquemada would be proud.

Furthermore, he stops voting for me to vote for Neto. Neto's heinously scummy crime? Oh, saying that he thought that what people (read: primarily DT) were doing against me was unfair.

I don't have much time atm...I have a bunch of errands to run, but I'll try to be around to ask any questions. Just remember, vote for me! YB, lynch candidate 2009! If I'm the lynch, I'll lower taxes, end world hunger, and give puppies and designer handbags to all!

Oh, and vote DT or Mae tomorrow! ^^

[jasonT1981]

@Town
Wait what... are you guys seriously going to vote the town tracker off?

FoS on YB for not unvoting post-claim

. All PR claims today are best dealt with day 2. Deadline or not, lynching an unCCed investigation role is poor play.

Vote: YellowBunny

So you FOS someone for not unvoting the countered claim....yet then vote the uncountered claim yourself in the exact same post?

thats weird

For the record... I also didnt unvote after the claim, is there any reason why I also am not FOS'ed

It only seems fair you would FOS me as well and anyone else who didnt unvote, however you just FOS'ed YB.... Why?

[jasonT1981]

bah at Self Hammer