Open 163 (Jungle Republic)- Game Over before 835

[DTMaster]

@Nik
I use cleavers and paring knives to butcher the English language. It makes deboning the root words so the town can digest it easier. But as a side effect it makes grammar nazis like you cry inside. :3 /offtopicness

@Kill
Then why, knowing that you didn't answer question, still didn't give me an answer to my question. Yes your bussing theory is new and might be something to talk about, but the above issue still stands.

@Shotty
Part Deux

Summary:

1. Your first part of the argument states that Toro vote hopped between Cain and Sabre.

The attacks on Cain were valid , even if you use the noob counter argument. In fact Toro's points on Cain are still stronger since he replied to Cain's posts with quotes on these, while the noob argument implies more gut reasoning. There comes a point where we need to evaluate if x person is either playing noob-scum, or just plain noob had he not replaced. It's a dangerous position. Your argument with Cain would be strengthened if we have a Cain/Peace flip as townie but with the above, I don't see how this could be used against Toro. Kill yes with his contradictory posts pre-flip, but not when I did an Iso read.

The attacks on sabre as of 33, this is handed out to you since it's not as well defined.

Return to PBPA:

33-35: These posts reflect the anti-town side to Cain's posts where he ignored questions. Reflect this back onto my original questioning on Cain where it is more blatant.

36: More scummy points on Toro actually. He repeated what I said, you can see it in the quotes.

40-41: I don't see the issue with unvoting Cain/Peace when a new replacement is in. :< Usually you don't want to have a quick hammer of the replacement with the dangers of them being PR roles.

55: Actually Shotty you might be right here. Loookie lookie lookie!

If Saber was scum why would I vote for him earlier in the game and not take it off when he was at L-2?

If sabre wasn't scum then.... /is attacked by the WIFOM ninjas. This reads as a slip to me. The VI argument stretching thin here.

Posting now so await for Part 3! Need to collect brain and such.

@Admiral
I see, then I would like to see has' argument on this then. I would safely assume that you disagree with this VI idea correct?

@Town
No comments on the whole "Toro forgot mafia can kill exchange"? and Hohum's meta?

[hasdgfas]

Can we focus? I want opinions on Toro and an explanation of why you think either Nik or peace is more scummy then him at this point in time. What do you think of Toro Cow?

I think he's a VI.

Can you elaborate on this.
I know what a vi is but I feel that they are usually the victims of day 1 or 2 lynches, rather than day 3 or later lynches.

I dunno, it just seems like he has no idea what's going on. I have usually seen them as victims of early lynches, but I don't consider that a prereq to someone being lynched, because you can be a VI without being lynched, whether it's playstyle or just actions you've taken.

[Nikanor]

@Kill
Then why, knowing that you didn't answer question, still didn't give me an answer to my question. Yes your bussing theory is new and might be something to talk about, but the above issue still stands.

Unlike some people *ahem*saberwolf*ahem*, Kill-kill can't talk once he's dead.

[DTMaster]

Oh lol. Whoops. Meant Peace. >>;; I'm getting my names mixed up here.

[peacesells]

[quote="DTMaster

@Kill (You meant me right?)
Then why, knowing that you didn't answer question, still didn't give me an answer to my question. Yes your bussing theory is new and might be something to talk about, but the above issue still stands.

[/quote]

After I realized my mistake I actually attempted to try and meta him. But he has 100+ pages of posts. Sorry, but that is just too daunting a task and I don't have that much free time to do it.

[ThAdmiral]

@Admiral
I see, then I would like to see has' argument on this then. I would safely assume that you disagree with this VI idea correct?

I personally don't believe he's displayed many of the classic signs of being VI up to this point.

I dunno, it just seems like he has no idea what's going on. I have usually seen them as victims of early lynches, but I don't consider that a prereq to someone being lynched, because you can be a VI without being lynched, whether it's playstyle or just actions you've taken.

I think he has been following the game pretty well so far. While I see what you are saying I honestly believe his behavior stems from his being scummy rather than any lack of paying attention or knowledge of the rules/roles of mafia etc.

[Shotty to the Body]

Still haven't seen any reasons not to lynch Toro, chiming in to let you know I'm here.

[Nikanor]

Still haven't seen any reasons not to lynch Toro, chiming in to let you know I'm here.

This.

[DTMaster]

There's not much left in the other PBPA: :<

There is a lot of evidence of Hohum and Sabre tunneling later on, then we get to the events of today. Should I continue?

There isn't anything I can now disagree with you Shotty about this.

Vote: Toro

L-1 Folks. Though I still get odd vibes from the conflicting fact that he forgot Mafia couldn't kill, but also knew it at the start of the game. :<

[fuzzylightning]

Vote Count #18

peacesells

: 1

(Scott Brosius)

Nikanor

: 2

(Toro, peacesells)

Toro

: 4

(Nikanor, ThAdmiral, Shotty to the Body, DTMaster)

Not Voting

:

(hasdgfas)

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[hasdgfas]

L-1 Folks. Though I still get odd vibes from the conflicting fact that he forgot Mafia couldn't kill, but also knew it at the start of the game. :<

Woah woah, I must've missed this. Could you elaborate please?

[DTMaster]

I addressed this earlier. I'll quote so you won't miss it:

In Toro ISO 10 he pointed out that the mafia are like

masons that are bad

Problem with that is, it doesn't really make them look anti-town at all. And we've got a long deadline, I'm sure we're going to find scum without any distractions.

And oh that honor hasn't gone to me? Phew!

Well its better to voice one's opinions than not. It's extremely anti-town to just say "I don't know" and offer no reads.

Also the first line of your post seems weird to me. Almost over-confidence that would only be seen from an non-town player.


Anyway, I have never played in a game where there is a anti-town group that does not have NKs. Anyone have experience with this setup?

Don't know how that makes me seem overconfident at all, just pointing it out.

Umm...yeah, just think they're masons.

Except they're bad.

Today Toro did this ISO 91, 92:

@Town
To put things in perspective we are at 4 townies (with 1 seer) vs 3 mafia vs 1 wolf, which is basically consistent of 50% scum town population. While a wolf killing mafia will greatly benefit town, the reverse can happen and a mislynch/town night kill will cause in a 2 v 3 v 1 worst case scenario. Be wary of this has/Admiral/Nik. The goal remains the same regardless: lynch scum.

If we mislynch and the werewolf kills off a town member, mafia wins right? Just seeing if you know this.

Oh forgot they can't kill, my bad.

Hence my own gut vibe: Something doesn't add up.

[peacesells]

I've just completed a read through on Toro and noticed some subtle buddying going on. What is everyone's general feeling on buddying? Is it a scum tell or a null tell?

[DTMaster]

Buddying? Can you point this out?

I can recall some with Zazier I guess.

[peacesells]

It was with me. I'll post it tommorrow. Logging off from work now.

[Nikanor]

Why is the Cow lurking through this game?

[hasdgfas]

I've just completed a read through on Toro and noticed some subtle buddying going on. What is everyone's general feeling on buddying? Is it a scum tell or a null tell?

I find it depends on the buddying. I usually get feels when people buddy up based on how they do it, but I don't think I've seen anything with Toro.

[Shotty to the Body]

Why is the Cow lurking through this game?

I have some thoughts on this, but I'd rather not deflect off of Toro right now.

[hasdgfas]

Why is the Cow lurking through this game?

I lost a feel for this game during the hohum mess yesterday and am trying to get it back.

[Nikanor]

I have some thoughts on this, but I'd rather not deflect off of Toro right now.

Go ahead. If you think Cow is mafia, it's something to keep in mind for after we lynch Toro. If you think Cow is werewolf, we have no interest in lynching him today, so it's impossible to deflect off of Toro with those thoughts.

[Scott Brosius]

Cow who do you feel is scummy? You haven't placed a vote since you unvoted hohum D1 (as far as I remember).

[Shotty to the Body]

My gut says werewolf, but I haven't done a whole lot of factfinding to back that up yet.

[hasdgfas]

Cow who do you feel is scummy? You haven't placed a vote since you unvoted hohum D1 (as far as I remember).

I haven't? well how about that, I could've sworn I'd voted. Let's rectify that situation, shall we.

vote: peacesells

A lot of this is gut, but I've had a bad feeling from pretty much the very beginning, based on the way the game has gone. He's seemed a bit too jumpy.

[Shotty to the Body]

Cow who do you feel is scummy? You haven't placed a vote since you unvoted hohum D1 (as far as I remember).

I haven't? well how about that, I could've sworn I'd voted. Let's rectify that situation, shall we.

vote: peacesells

A lot of this is gut, but I've had a bad feeling from pretty much the very beginning, based on the way the game has gone. He's seemed a bit too jumpy.

How can you vote based on "gut" considering the enormous amount of evidence presented against Toro, what do you think of the posts that have been made about him? Do you still think he's just a VI, I can't really see how that remains true.

[DTMaster]

@Shotty

Do you believe Peace is town then?