Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim.

By 'scummy posting,' are you talking about the fact that she is insulting herself? I would agree that that is usually scummy, but Maemuki's meta regularly calls herself dumb, so this is more of a nulltell. Correct me if I'm on the wrong track about what you mean, here.

This:

2. Kitty seemed to respond to BM a lot, and I still don't know how BM did it if Kitty was town...Or why Kitty let herself be controlled by BM.

Is horrendously scummy. If there's one thing scum absolutely despise and fear, it's townies who inexplicably trust each other. Often, it's a good guise to assume in order to make them sweat a bit.

I think the Doc-kill reads newb-scum more than anything.

Agreed. More experienced scum would have left Netopalis alone, especially when his target is easily predicted and avoided. This is a WIFOM argument, however, and should not be taken as too big a tell.

Yep. Wanna join me on a Sotty wagon? Or do you have a better idea?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Nothing in that quote by me pertains to my affiliation. If you want to attack me for not hammering, please explain why scum-BM would not hammer town-YB. Then, apologise, and move your vote to YB, or alternatively, someone we might actually lynch. There's a good boy.

At this point I am thinking that one of Yellow and Battle Mage are scum. With how BM came in so close to the deadline and stopped us from getting a lynch just screams scum to me. Yellow's initial attacks on BM were pretty bad and I just can't see them as bussing. I am still suspious of Yellow, but it has been downgraded in the face of BM's actions.

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

What changed?

Haylen needs to post more, if she doesn't I could be happy lynching her too.

BM, Yellow and Haylen are my top three.

I'm happy lynching Haylen. At least you have been consistent.

Vote: Haylen

As far as Kitty goes, i cant remember. But i'm not 100% convinced she is town.

BM

[jasonT1981]

You do know your vote is already on me BM?

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

Again, you are happy to see Haylen lynched but where is your case against her? (just like your vote and no case against me) Seems to me you are lynch happy not caring who gets lynched. you spend the entire post attacking others, then vote Haylen.. don't really make sense to me

I'm happy with my vote on you as it is right now.

[Battle Mage]

You do know your vote is already on me BM?

eh? I unvoted ages ago. I should be on Haylen now.

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

I dont think so. In fact, have you actually seen me "happy to lynch" ANYONE yet? xD

Haylen isnt voting me, so it isnt OMGUS either. Altho OMGUS is null.

Again, you are happy to see Haylen lynched but where is your case against her? (just like your vote and no case against me)

She's lurking. That's a scumtell for her, no matter what she says. From what i'm aware, she is participating actively elsewhere. And as i've said already. We have to lynch someone reasonable today. That means, not a PR claim, and not a believable vanilla claim.

Seems to me you are lynch happy not caring who gets lynched. you spend the entire post attacking others, then vote Haylen.. don't really make sense to me

Lynch happy? Naaaaahhhh. Sense is for scumbags. All a townie has is gut and the element of surprise. If you think i don't care who is lynched, you obviously forgot already that yesterday, i chose not to hammer YB.

And btw, if anyone is playing the OMGUS game, it is you.

I'm happy with my vote on you as it is right now.

okey doke.

BM

[jasonT1981]

OK Yea,you unvoted sorry... and BTW how am I playing OMGUS?

I just think you are being very lazy with your vote, thats 2 votes you have made so far on day 2 and yet to make a case on either of them

[Battle Mage]

OK Yea,you unvoted sorry... and BTW how am I playing OMGUS?

You're currently voting for me because i've attacked you. You're denying that is OMGUS?

I just think you are being very lazy with your vote, thats 2 votes you have made so far on day 2 and yet to make a case on either of them

You might have a point. But i'll take you alot more seriously if you provide some content yourself, and read my posts. Why do you feel Haylens lurking is protown?

BM

[Haylen]

BM, I have a question for you. Do you recall that conversation we had last night about a game that finished yesterday morning? In which I said I had I only made 2 posts in a 60 page game? And do you recall me explaining to you why i only made two posts in that game? Well the same reason applies to this game. I'm extremely busy, stressed and havent been in the right frame of mind to post. I'm slowly trying to get back to it though.

Therefore, your point about me being active in other games is a complete misrepresentation. I haven't been posting anywhere, at least anything that involves content, it's mainly been me getting aggressive about people accusing me of lurking.

I don't like that way you are trying to lead the game, BM, by making people vote with you ect. I find it suspicious.

FoS BM

[jasonT1981]

You might have a point. But i'll take you alot more seriously if you provide some content yourself, and read my posts.

Why do you feel Haylens lurking is protown?

BM

Stop putting words in my mouth and misrepping me. I never said anything about Haylen's lurking being pro-town. However I feel lurking is a null-tell as Both scum and town do it.

What I did say however was that I did not like how you where voting for people without making any case against them. I pointed out both your posts on me...

Day 1 vote on me just efore deadline - 'Worth A Punt I guess'
Day 2 vote on me - 'I could see Jason being in that group'
Day 2 vote on Haylen 'I am happy lynching Haylen'

all 3 votes you are yet to provide any kind of case for any of your votes. I find this highly suspicious.

As for questioning me on providing content, I am providing content and posting actively so you have no reason to question me on that. You just don't acknowledge my content as being useful as it is directed against you.

[jasonT1981]

Oh and BM I am still waiting for an answer on how asking you to present a case is actually a scum tell on me.

As well as me saying BLAGH on what I thought was a self hammer was me BLATENTLY knowing YB was town?

I await your answers apart from me using a sad face shows I know she is town.. as I do not accept this as a valid reasoning for me being annoyed at a self hammer.

[DTMaster]

@Jason

This is a lie:

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

Iso 69 is an example on a disagreement between BM and myself and I and don't see any votes or attacks on myself. Same with a disagreement between 78 and 80.

It's lying to say that BM attacked everyone who disagrees with him. Plus with his recent attack on Haylen it's the otherway around. Haylen is retaliating on BM for attacking her. This is misrepresenting BM.

Also why didn't you change your vote on Neto last day when he wasn't CCed? You said I had a good point but this could be scum gambit outing the real doctor. The fact that the NK would confirm or deny the alignment makes your vote a poor vote.

@Haylen
But you are posting in other games. Comments about lurking lead to discussion and it is a passive way of scumhunting. I don't get how it's complete misrepresentation when you did post in other games but use: "It's not full of content" as your excuse to let you off the hook.

Example: Page 1 before the offtopic speach about your studio, you just said you suspected someone as scum.

That reads as: contributing to the game in other games, but not here.

[Haylen]

No. Go and read my other games. My posts include telling people im not lurking and i'll post later. That isnt contributing, is it?

[DTMaster]

Since September 30ish yes this pattern is there that you are really busy. I concede to you since when I read the full posts the content were just 1 liners. :<

[Battle Mage]

BM, I have a question for you. Do you recall that conversation we had last night about a game that finished yesterday morning? In which I said I had I only made 2 posts in a 60 page game? And do you recall me explaining to you why i only made two posts in that game? Well the same reason applies to this game. I'm extremely busy, stressed and havent been in the right frame of mind to post. I'm slowly trying to get back to it though.

Actually, if i recall correctly, your reason was "i'm scum".

It's not like you've got a broken bone or anything. Drop the excuses! xD

Therefore, your point about me being active in other games is a complete misrepresentation. I haven't been posting anywhere, at least anything that involves content, it's mainly been me getting aggressive about people accusing me of lurking.

Yeh, i concede i might be wrong on this. I got the impression you were posting elsewhere, both from knowing a particular participant in one game, and because

you have, quite clearly, indisputably, been active on site.

I don't like that way you are trying to lead the game, BM, by making people vote with you ect. I find it suspicious.

FoS BM

That's old news. How about you catch up and get back to us?

Also, my vote stands. I'm not impressed with you playing the "OMG, you're misrepping me" card, nor do i seriously think you feel that me leading the town is scummy. You know me well enough not to make this mistake.

BM

BM

[Battle Mage]

@Jason

This is a lie:

not 100% sure here, but it seems you are OMGUSing alot here... anyone who attacks you or disagrees with you, you are happy to see lynched.

Iso 69 is an example on a disagreement between BM and myself and I and don't see any votes or attacks on myself. Same with a disagreement between 78 and 80.

It's lying to say that BM attacked everyone who disagrees with him. Plus with his recent attack on Haylen it's the otherway around. Haylen is retaliating on BM for attacking her. This is misrepresenting BM.

Lol, that quote was Jason, not me. Also, to add to your evidence, Jason did not find me suspicious until i attacked him. Jason, think - would your vote be on me if i hadnt attacked you?

BM

[DTMaster]

Whoopsies. Fail quotes. :<

[Battle Mage]

Oh and BM I am still waiting for an answer on how asking you to present a case is actually a scum tell on me.

As well as me saying BLAGH on what I thought was a self hammer was me BLATENTLY knowing YB was town?

I await your answers apart from me using a sad face shows I know she is town.. as I do not accept this as a valid reasoning for me being annoyed at a self hammer.

Rofl!

SOMEONE has an attitude problem.

I'm sorry if i've been unclear to this point. Just in case there was any doubt, I do not give a

flying rats ass

whether you accept my comments or not. Do you really think i make an attack on someone, and expect them to roll over and confess? This is the exact reason why making cases is over-rated. And it's also the reason why it's very hard for someone to sufficiently defend themselves without claiming. Regardless of alignment, there is no way you can excuse your scummy play. Arguing about it, is not only pointless, it's anti-town, because you waste everyone's time.

I dont think anything more needs to be said regarding you asking for an argument either. There's no need for me to present a case on ANYBODY unless i am 98% certain they are scum.

Buck your ideas up bud. You have 1 post to comment on something other than me or YB, or my vote will go back to you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

You might have a point. But i'll take you alot more seriously if you provide some content yourself, and read my posts.

Why do you feel Haylens lurking is protown?

BM

Stop putting words in my mouth and misrepping me. I never said anything about Haylen's lurking being pro-town. However I feel lurking is a null-tell as Both scum and town do it.

You said i didnt provide a case on Haylen, when i had. I assumed that meant you felt Haylens lurking was not scummy. I was right. Following?

What I did say however was that I did not like how you where voting for people without making any case against them. I pointed out both your posts on me...

eh? lmao

Day 1 vote on me just efore deadline - 'Worth A Punt I guess'
Day 2 vote on me - 'I could see Jason being in that group'
Day 2 vote on Haylen 'I am happy lynching Haylen'

all 3 votes you are yet to provide any kind of case for any of your votes. I find this highly suspicious.

You should play some more mafia games then. Not elaborating on your votes, and being generally elusive is a towntell. You know what i find scummy? Your use of adverbs to try and make it sound like you're more convinced than you are about me being scum.

Psych Psych Psych!

As for questioning me on providing content, I am providing content and posting actively so you have no reason to question me on that. You just don't acknowledge my content as being useful as it is directed against you.

Lol...ok, let's put it like this. ASSUME i am town. Now, in your next post, provide some HELPFUL content.

BM

[Zachrulez]

1st vote count of day 2:

Battle Mage - 2 (Sotty7, JasonT1981)
Haylen - 1 (Battle Mage)

Not voting (Nikanor, Haylen, Yellowbunny, Maemuki, KittyMo, hitogoroshi, DTMaster, Vi)

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

[jasonT1981]

Why should I automatically ASSUME you are town?

[Battle Mage]

Why should I automatically ASSUME you are town?

So you can salvage some dignity in the game? Lol xD

But seriously. If i assume you're town, you do not KNOW 100% that i am scum. Therefore there is a possibility i am town. And if i am town, you're going to need to look at other people tomorrow.

Tbh man, if you dont have the possibility of me being town in the back of your mind already, i dunno if there's anything i can say to help you. That's one of the most basic townie principles in Mafia. 0.o

BM

*Oh and btw, the reason i'm so jumpy with my vote, and quick to change opinions, is because i dont want to revert back to the kind of player i was. A player not unlike yourself. Tunnel-vision to the max can be epic-fail.

[Sotty7]

2. The plan to confirm Mae's claim is to wait till tomorrow. If Mae is the town tracker then there is no doctor to protect her. If she isn't then I suggest we look at Mae and hang her up. Given the fact that she said Kitty did nothing, if Kitty supports this then Mae's claim of tracker is confirmed. A mafia tracker is yet to be determined but should be kept in mind. Any problems?

This point is pointless. Of course Kitty is going to come out and confirm Mae's result. If she were scum she isn't gong to admit that and if she is a town power of some kind she isn't going to come out and claim that.

@Sotty
Why would scum push for a no lynch with the whole: deadline is nearing argument is avaliable to them. :<.

Why do we lynch everyday? (for the most part) For links, for information. Lynches and flips of said lynches are the towns most powerful weapon in hunting scum. Obviously scum will want to limit that.

You are setting up for a false dilemia where it's scummy to not hammer, and it would be scummy to hammer at the same time. Considering the last vote count was split up 3:3: 2:1:1:1:1 you can clearly see that the town was extremely divided on the lynch. You needed 7. Blaming BM for the no lynch when the above vote count seems moot. You have yet to attack me to premature claim and switch to self voting, or to Jason maintaining his vote on the unCCed doctor. You also didn't attack Nik for not going with a YB lynch but rather went for a Jason lynch. There are so many other examples of other attacks and such that it was clear the town was divided.

BM was a BIG reason why didn't get a lynch yesterday. The town was starting to roll towards some kind of settlement and BM came back mere hours before the deadline to derail that. Now, if both BM and Yellow are some how town, then what he did can be seen as a good thing. However, the facts are that on day one BM shouldn't have any idea what Yellow's alignment is. He was also calling Yellow scum right up until the deadline switch. Are you telling me you don't find these sequence of events scummy?

I'm not sure what you mean by attack you for premature claim, could you explain that? I will admit that I haven't been looking at Jason a lot and I should probably change that. The vote on the doc is suspect, but I have a gut town read on him. We used to play a lot on a different site.

---

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Wait. You think the lack of hammer on Yellow makes her more likely to be scum?

Crap, I totally read that the wrong way. I thought you were implying that the people who could have hammered and didn't were scummy and the whole “scum tell” applied to them. Face palm indeed.

Unvote

You are weighing the self vote thing in very high regard, why is that? Outside of the mountainous mafia you spoke about, have you seen other townies voting for themselves?

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

Well I have no idea if you did or didn't prevent a mislynch and neither should you. My issue with you is that you seem so confident that it would have been. I don't know how you could be with the info we had that day or even now.

---

Haylen, as soon as someone calls you out on your lurking you post to say you aren't lurking or you are busy. To me this looks like you are

actively following the game and not posting

AKA

LURKING

. If you are as busy as you say you are, ask for a replacement. If in your next post you talk about how you aren't lurking while not actually playing the game then I will vote you. You missed a whole bunch of content yesterday, read it, catch up and give us something to go on.

@Kitty: Who are your suspects today?

Also really want Yellow to check in to see where she stands now.

[Maemuki]

I tracked KittyMo - she did nothing at all.

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

BM

Yeah, this makes no sense. Explain.

[Battle Mage]

2. The plan to confirm Mae's claim is to wait till tomorrow. If Mae is the town tracker then there is no doctor to protect her. If she isn't then I suggest we look at Mae and hang her up. Given the fact that she said Kitty did nothing, if Kitty supports this then Mae's claim of tracker is confirmed. A mafia tracker is yet to be determined but should be kept in mind. Any problems?

This point is pointless. Of course Kitty is going to come out and confirm Mae's result. If she were scum she isn't gong to admit that and if she is a town power of some kind she isn't going to come out and claim that.

Erm, i'd hope that if she was a town PR, she WOULD claim. She wouldnt have to claim what. She'd just say that the result is false, and we can nail scum, and leave them in the dark.

@Sotty
Why would scum push for a no lynch with the whole: deadline is nearing argument is avaliable to them. :<.

Why do we lynch everyday? (for the most part) For links, for information. Lynches and flips of said lynches are the towns most powerful weapon in hunting scum. Obviously scum will want to limit that.

No, DTMaster is right. NL is seen as anti-town, therefore scum will play the long-game and attack people pushing an NL. Also, as DTMaster was suggesting- scum can use the prospect of NL to push through a second-rate mislynch. Scum rarely try and play for quick-wins, because a NL on Day 1 is far from catastrophic. In fact, with 1 kill per night, it actually works out in our favour.

You are setting up for a false dilemia where it's scummy to not hammer, and it would be scummy to hammer at the same time. Considering the last vote count was split up 3:3: 2:1:1:1:1 you can clearly see that the town was extremely divided on the lynch. You needed 7. Blaming BM for the no lynch when the above vote count seems moot. You have yet to attack me to premature claim and switch to self voting, or to Jason maintaining his vote on the unCCed doctor. You also didn't attack Nik for not going with a YB lynch but rather went for a Jason lynch. There are so many other examples of other attacks and such that it was clear the town was divided.

BM was a BIG reason why didn't get a lynch yesterday. The town was starting to roll towards some kind of settlement and BM came back mere hours before the deadline to derail that. Now, if both BM and Yellow are some how town, then what he did can be seen as a good thing.

Actually, i dont see how my affiliation comes in to play at all here. Care to enlighten me? As far as i see, if YB is town, i did something protown. Whether im scum or not is a completely different issue.

However, the facts are that on day one BM shouldn't have any idea what Yellow's alignment is. He was also calling Yellow scum right up until the deadline switch. Are you telling me you don't find these sequence of events scummy?

Ugh, Sotty, tell me- why the hell are we even bothering to play this game if we arent going to try and ascertain individual alignments?? I cant stress enough that changing opinions is GOOD! haha

---

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now. Whether scum want to risk it is a different story. The lack of hammer on YB concerns me a little-normally that would say "scumtell". But, i'm still kinda leaning town with the whole self-vote shenanigans. And i assume i bought into the vanilla claim. By not hammering i couldve really screwed us over, so let's hope for my sake that YB is in fact, town. xD

The reason there was no hammer on Yellow was because of you. You came in a decided Yellow was town too late for us to HAVE another wagon. So, normally this would be a scum tell for you, but because you were the one responsible, it's just not?

*Facepalm*

Had to read that about 6 times before i realised what you THOUGHT i was saying. But, you have completely misinterpretted me. haha

What i meant was, the lack of hammer on YB would normally make me think he was scum, because a townie wagon is generally opportunistically hammered.

Wait. You think the lack of hammer on Yellow makes her more likely to be scum?

Crap, I totally read that the wrong way. I thought you were implying that the people who could have hammered and didn't were scummy and the whole “scum tell” applied to them. Face palm indeed.

Unvote

You are weighing the self vote thing in very high regard, why is that? Outside of the mountainous mafia you spoke about, have you seen other townies voting for themselves?

*shrug* i've self-voted as town. More than once. Lol
Not sure if i've ever done it as scum. Probably, but only as a gambit.

Logically, this is appalling. If you think the prevention of a lynch yesterday was anti-town, is that still true if i prevented a mislynch? Your attack is totally inconsistent.

Well I have no idea if you did or didn't prevent a mislynch and neither should you. My issue with you is that you seem so confident that it would have been. I don't know how you could be with the info we had that day or even now.

Ah, so your attack is on the grounds that i "knew" YB was town? Why wouldnt i just hammer him though? He was at -1, and it'd be so much less conspicuous than defending him. Plus, numerically, a mislynch yesterday is far worse than a NL, given what we've seen so far.

Also, what does lynching me tell you about YB? Not alot. I'm not 100% sold on him as town, but i felt lynching him yesterday was unwise, as there are people more likely to be scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I think Hito could be scum.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I tracked KittyMo - she did nothing at all.

Despite her incredibly scummy posting so far today, i'm still inclined to believe Maemuki's claim. We can let her slide for now.

I'd also consider a Kitty-lynch, if anyone was wondering.

BM

Yeah, this makes no sense. Explain.

What part of those quotes do you not understand?

BM