Perfectionist Mafia - Resultas

[Wickedestjr]

Who's talking about a lynch? There's nothing scummy nor wrong about having two random votes.

Didn't you ask me this already?

You're telling me you find it not odd he needed to explicitly tell us he randomly voted? On page 3 or 4, when discussion was beginning to start.

Not really. The way he did it wasn't odd.

After rereading it's:
- snow (+dramonic)
- cookie
- MrSuave

For my candidates.

That's good and all, but I find it a bit strange that you just happen to have the same suspects as me. IGMEOY.

Why thank you. Would you like me to give my opinion on something?

What do you think of SW, saberwolf, Sanjay, BC, MrSuave, and MME?

1. 1:IMO, so they can justify their vote. 2: And actually something that I regret, is self voting so early. 3: I robbed the town of proper bandwagoning in an aspect.

1: It wasn't obvious why they were voting you?

2: Then why'd you do it?

3: Really. What makes you think this?

2. I hope the first part was sarcastic. As for getting through the RVS, where I pointed out that I thought there was a lack of questioning, I think there should have been more.

No, the first part of that was completely serious. If I was incorrect in thinking that, then how were you trying to get out of the RVS?

3. Because it shows that a player is putting pressure onto other players. The more pressure the better.

Random votes alone don't put much pressure on players. It is when random votes go on the same place to form a bandwagon that players get pressured. I think the time to switch your vote around and pressure people is shortly after the RVS which is what I am doing now. Also please explain how saberwolf's random votes were pressuring people.


246 --> Badposting.


Darn it. Can't finish catching up. Will try to later.

[My Milked Eek]

Who's talking about a lynch? There's nothing scummy nor wrong about having two random votes.

Didn't you ask me this already?

Yeah I noticed that after I reread my post. My amnesiac bad.

You're telling me you find it not odd he needed to explicitly tell us he randomly voted? On page 3 or 4, when discussion was beginning to start.

Not really. The way he did it wasn't odd.

>_>

After rereading it's:
- snow (+dramonic)
- cookie
- MrSuave

For my candidates.

That's good and all, but I find it a bit strange that you just happen to have the same suspects as me. IGMEOY.

All good 'n stuff, but I have those up there for a few reasons that differ from yours. Mrsuave's "random" vote comes to mind.

[EtherealCookie]

Let me rephrase: 1: do you believe that whats been done in this game so far is actual scumhunting, or us tunnelling on those who make poor choices of wording in posts? 2: Are we catching scum slips, or dumb slips in your opinion, 3: based on post value?

1: I don't think it's the best scumhunting, but we are certainly out of the RVS. I think we are making a pretty good effort to progress to a stage where we have strong enough cases worthy of a lynch.

2: Scum slips or just misinterpratations.

3: Post value?

SW and cookie, SW being either noobtown or noobscum and cookie trying to take some of the pressure off her through chainsaw defence

SW and BC: VERY unlikely, but you gotta consider everything.

I doubt that SW is scumbuddies with Ethereal or BC.

How do you not understand the sentence, yet claim I addressed one of your points but not the others?

I knew which point it was in response to, but I didn't understand it. So please explain it.

First: I looked over the other points later, and responded to them.

Second: I'm sorry, should we ignore posts until the sixth page? How about we change that. Let's all ignore all the posts until the 10th page!

First: Where?

Second: I'm not saying we ignore them, but how strong would you expect them to be that early in the game?

Question for everyone: How do you play as scum?

I'm not scum in any of my completed games, but if I was scum, I'd probably just be more cautious.


I'll finish catching up later. Sorry.

Do you read my posts?

First you don't even take into account that saberwolf has other points against Snow White.

See post #9.

Second, you critisize one of saberwolf's points for how weak it is, even though it was made on like page 5.

See post #10.

In both I'm trying to get discussion started and he's not helping me. Then he complains about it by saying;

Once again, I've mentioned that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. I'm sorry if I had nothing to say in RVS.

I knew which point it was in response to, but I didn't understand it. So please explain it.

I'm saying, it's a terrible reason to vote for someone simply because they have nothing to contribute in RVS.

[Wickedestjr]

Hello xRECKONERx!!! Nice to play with you again.

I think Mufasa is rather scummy for #23. I couldn't tell what he was trying to do... he basically jokingly hinted that the BC wagon should continue, then basically repeats Snow White's #18 posed to BC.

I questioned BC about it too. What do you think of me?

Sanjay's #65 is odd, and I don't like it. FoS: Sanjay
I think the game had progressed far past the RVS by the time he posted that, and it was a blatant attempt to add nothing to the game. Apparently, dramonic agreed with my assessment in his post #82. When Sanjay does receive a vote and finally gets pressured, he decides to come to BC's party a little late and vote him.

First of all, what makes you think Dramonic was voting Sanjay because of that? Sanjay had given other helpful posts prior to the vote. Also, what makes you think Sanjay voted BC because of that, because it was like ten posts after Dramonic voted? I do agree that Sanjay was kind of late to join the bandwagon though.

Suave's #104 is scummy as all get out, but I still don't like the Sanjay vibe a lot more than I dislike Suave using RVS-logic to explain a vote on Sanjay when we have obviously moved past the RVS. I also don't like his #110, where he says there's nothing to gather from the first few pages. If there's nothing to gather, or analyze, explain how I got my above paragraphs? And let's not even mention Suave's #129 where he openly admits to voting SW for regurgitated reasoning... right after he had just said he didn't see anything from what had happened so far literally 19 posts before.

I agree with you that MrSuave is probably scum, but I don't like the points you provide against him. Especially the last one.

Note: something about BC calling himself neutral after voting himself from the start just screams scum playing mind games.

Where'd BC call himself neutral?

I honestly can't believe the SW/saberwolf argument is still going on... dramonic hit the nail on the head with his post #150. Both SW and saber need to scumhunt instead of screaming bloody murder at each other for no apparent reason.

The screaming bloody murder at each other pretty much started the discussion imo.

Sanjay's #175: is he defending BC? Why? Sanjay, do you find BC townish?

I dislike this point.

According to her logic, no one should vote. At all. Yet she votes for Lowell. For being inactive in a previous game. That doesn't add up, does it?

It didn't really bother me. It looked like a newb asking a stupid question, which, looking back at my first game, appears to be very similar.

Wow, Mufasa, if I could, I would daykill you for that post.

FoS: Mufasa.

You are FoSing Mufasa for a terrible post, yet keep your vote on Lowell for bad reasons. That doesn't seem right. Also, have you ever seen any of Lowell's games before?

Also, I think this Snow White wagon is bullshit. There is nothing substantial upon it except bandwagon votes with crap reasons.

You say the Snow White bandwagon is crap, yet you never say anything in regard to saberwolf. Trying to avoid interacting with other players maybe?

Do you read my posts?

No. Absolutely not.

Once again, I've mentioned that's a terrible reason to vote for someone. I'm sorry if I had nothing to say in RVS.

That isn't really a good defense. Are you reading my posts?

I'm saying, it's a terrible reason to vote for someone simply because they have nothing to contribute in RVS.

You're right. Too bad that's not the reason I'm voting you.

Second: I'm not saying we ignore them, but how strong would you expect them to be that early in the game?

Okay. I'm going to

Unvote

. I'm still suspicious of Ethereal, but I would rather

Vote: MrSuave

. For:

1.) Complained about how nothing was happening in the game, yet didn't help to make it progress either.

2.) Warned somebody that he was going to vote them.

3.) Voted a lurker.


Also my opinions on the players;

Mufasa - Neutral - He has done nothing to raise my suspicions thus far. This is typical Mufasa I think. But I've never seen him as scum.

Sanjay - Neutral (a tad towards scum) - xRx provided a good point about Sanjay's late arrival to the BC wagon which is the tad bit pulling Sanjay towards scum, but my gut keeps changing.

SolemnJ - Town/Neutral - Too many people I could see being scum. He is probably town.

saberwolf - Town - I'm liking his presence in this game. He seems to be scumhunting and he has done nothing to bother me.

nook - Neutral/Scum - What has he contributed to the game?

xRECKONERx - Scum - Didn't like his catch-up post. Many of the points in it were bad.

BloodCovenent - Scum - Didn't like post 131.

DeathNote - Town/Neutral - Gut.

Santos - Scum - Haven't been impressed by any of his posts.

Lowell - Neutral - I'm sure it's obvious.

EtherealCookie - Scum - Reasons stated earlier.

AlmightyBob - Town/Neutral - He hasn't bothered me that much. I just don't feel safe calling him town though.

dramonic - Neutral/Scum - I looked at his town meta and scum meta, and his play here seems to be closer to his scum meta.

My Milked Eek - Town - His play doesn't seem similar to Save the Mafia, and he has done nothing to raise my suspicions.

Deuxieme Octopus - Town/Neutral - Gut.

Snow White - Neutral - Eh. I'm having trouble determining whether she is newbtown or newbscum.

MrSuave - Scum - Reasons stated above.

[Sanjay]

Wow, Mufasa, if I could, I would daykill you for that post.

FoS: Mufasa.

You are FoSing Mufasa for a terrible post, yet keep your vote on Lowell for bad reasons. That doesn't seem right. Also, have you ever seen any of Lowell's games before?

Doesn't really sound like me, Wickedestjr. You sure you got your quote tags straight?

[saberwolf]

pretty sure it was santos who said that and not sanjay

[EtherealCookie]

That isn't really a good defense. Are you reading my posts?

No, absolutely not.

Anyhow, you still haven't said the reason for voting for me. Honestly, I think you realize your case isn't great and switched votes due to that, yet don't want to appear foolish and claim I'm still scummy.

[Sanjay]

I want to apologize that a prod on me was necessary. I've wanted to do a big post involving everyone for a while, but that's a lot of work so I kind of put it off. I know this game has dragged and I take a lot of responsbility for that because I'm usually a pretty active player.

Mufasa

:

I didn't like these Mufasa posts:

Could someone justify for me why Snow white is a better lynch candidate than bloodcovenant in one sentence?

If I was to guess from post 162, I would assume Mufasa thought bloodcovenant was a better lynch candidate. It seems like an awkward way to phrase the question if he thought Snow White was a better candidate or he was undecided. If he was more undecided, why wouldn't he ask someone on both wagons? If he thought Snow White was more scummy, wouldn't a question about the BC wagon make more sense?

haha just for making that one sentence I might have to fos you haha just kidding.

But ya I agree that Snow White is more scummier because we have seen more from her we need more actions from bloodcovenant

It's a little ambiguous what Mufasa is saying here. As I understand it, he either:

A) He thinks Snow White is scummy because she made more posts

OR

B) Thinks that the only reason Snow White seems more scummy is because she has made more posts

If he meant A, I feel like that is slightly contradictory with the implication I was picking up from 162. Also, A doesn't really make much sense. If he meant B, that conflicts with post 170:

Whats wrong with being more talkative saberwolf it makes it so you dont have an easy reason to lynch me, but in all seriousness if BloodCovenant doesn't post today I am voting for Snow White

Why would you move your vote off someone because they didn't post? That just seems like an invitation for BC to lurk. And it doesn't make sense if Mufasa meant B. These posts feel like Mufasa was just trying to get a feel for his vote.

Incidentally, xRECKONERx, when I asked Mufasa why he was voting for BC in post 175, I was trying to get a feel for what exactly Mufasa was thinking when he made post 162. I thought I knew why Mufasa voted for BC, but he seemed pretty ready to move that vote, and I didn't really understand why.

If Mufasa had no reason to be voting BC and my question had him admit that, I don't really see the problem with that no matter what my read on BC is.

I'd still like Mufasa to answer the question. Mufasa, what was the basis for voting and keeping your vote on BC?

SolemnJ

:

SolemnJ has posted exactly nothing. Can't get much of a read based on three posts which is in itself a bit scummy, and I don't like that one of his posts came right after nook (of all people) called him out for not posting, but SolemnJ is pretty much a blank slate right now.

Looking forward to the replacement.

saberwolf

:

On my re-read, I was a little confused why saberwolf took his vote off Mufasa on page 3. He didn't seem to like Mufasa's reaction to the vote, and yet instead of turning pressure up he went after Snow White. saberwolf, could you explain more what you were thinking back here?

nook

:

Looking forward to the replacement, disappointed it is necessary.

xRECKONERx

:

Why do you feel asking for someone's justification for a vote constitutes defending? Is there a reason you didn't bring up post 96 as well?

BloodCovenent

:

I don't exactly understand BC's town read on me that he stated in this post and explained in this post:

I get a townish read from you somewhat off of gut read, and also your interactions between Wickedestjr. Although I disagree with what your are saying about mufasa, that doesn't mean you aren't trying. Where as others are not, imo. Its the same thing with my townish read on Saber, I feel as if Snow was correct in their spat, but I feel that saber is acting pro-town.

Could you explain why you felt my interactions with Wickedestjr made me look townish? I don't really see it. I was kind of being an ass.

DeathNote

:

DeathNote, why haven't you posted anything? A list of reads would be very nice.

Santos

:

Saying you need to do a Lowell reread seems a little strange to me, given that it is only two posts and nineteen words. I feel like you may be trying to inflate your pro-town contributions by calling it that.

What goes in to a Lowell reread?

Lowell

:

It seems like in his first post he might have been going out of his way to demonstrate he doesn't know how many scum there are. Since then, he's posted basically nothing.

EtherealCookie

:

EtherealCookie, how do you feel about your vote on saberwolf right now?

AlmightyBob

:

Could you explain what about saberwolf's argument was especially convincing to you here?

Also, to answer your question about how I would play as scum, my goal with almost any role is to play as much like I imagine a vanilla townie to play as possible. Just when I'm mafia my scumhunting would conveniently result in misinformation and misinterpretation.

Wickedestjr

:

Question for everyone: How do you play as scum?

I'm not scum in any of my completed games, but if I was scum, I'd probably just be more cautious.

This seems like a bit of a convenient answer for scum to make. It sort of gives you license to pull a "surely I must be town because I would be much more cautious as scum" defense whenever suspicion gets on you.

Could you elaborate on what ways you would be cautious?

Also, I'd be happy to wait until after DeathNote answers, but could you explain to me why you asked him about the specific people you did?

You have a neutral read on Lowell, a neutral/scum read on nook and a neutral/town read on SolemnJ. Could you explain where the difference is coming from?

dramonic

:

Looking forward to dramonic's promised reread of the thread.

My Milked Eek

:

How serious were you about the emoticon tell on Snow White?

Deuxieme Octopus

:

Do you have any strong reads besides the one on Snow White? Please share them. Did you actually expect the town to accept that elaboration was not necessary and just lynch her?

Snow White

:

I asked her why she felt arrogance was a scumtell and she told me [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1901571]how it was anti-town[/b]. This is kind of dodging the question and I don't like it that much.

However, I am not getting as much of a scummy read from Snow White as I was before though. As far as I can understand, she is attacking saberwolf because she feels like his arguments against her are illogical. Despite what people say about OMGUSing, this seems like a townish reaction to me.

MrSuave

:

MrSuave has said he will post more and I'm looking forward to it.

I don't think that much of MrSuave random voting late because it is at least consistent with his other posts. He doesn't seem to be getting very strong reads from people.

[Sanjay]

Here's the broken link to Snow White.

Also,

Vote: Mufasa

[saberwolf]

Sanjay: I have played one other game with Mufasa. He was town in that game and he's playing just like he was in that game. Posts votes haphazardly and doesn't care how scummy his posts look. Refusal to elaborate was also one of his things. So to see him doing it again bugs me, but He turned out town the last time he did that, so it was basically a choice of meta.

[My Milked Eek]

How serious were you about the emoticon tell on Snow White?

I need to do a readthrough of her past games to give you a decent answer to this. An sich it's pretty null, however, if her selfproclaimed behavior of (over)using emoticons is incorrect and conflicting with previous games it might be interesting to look deeper into it. Making it, effectively, a snow-tell.

The only interesting thing I found about it so far is that she almost immediately stopped using emoticons from the moment I noted it, as if she was trying to appease/calm me.

I'll get back on this later when I've read her games.

[My Milked Eek]

I did the quick math.

Averages of emoticons/posts per alignment for Snow white.

Town : 0.51 e/p (ignoring outliers, it's 0.35 e/p)
Scum : 0.89 e/p
Third party : 1 e/p

In this game,
Before I noted her of her emoticon use : 1.80 e/p
After I noted it : 0.36 e/p

Am I going somewhere with this? I don't know. I should have counted words in each topic as well but that's a bridge (or five) too far. But judging from the data above, there's something off. To switch from an excessive use of emoticons to 1/6th of that after someone noted it and saying you're expressive doesn't add up to her emometa.


I'll sleep on it.
And yes, I was this bored.

[EtherealCookie]

EtherealCookie, how do you feel about your vote on saberwolf right now?

Given I can't unvote, I am satisfied. However, I don't find him that scummy at the moment.

[Snow White]

status report: middle of reread. Page 8.

symptoms: headache, sleep deprivation.

Post soon.

unvote Saberwolf, Vote Lowell

I was being rash and probably stupid. Rereading afresh, Saberwolf reads townie. Ill admit i acted stupid in some regards. Full details upcomming.

[My Milked Eek]

Any reason to the Lowell vote?

[saberwolf]

on an unrelated topic, if that's SW in her d.p, she's cute ^_^

[Snow White]

lol. No other reason. He's inactive and far away enough from a lynch for me to be comfortable voting him.

At that i think ive seven votes...

@Mod, votecount please?

lol. you stop that Saber! but thanks. Better thaan EoS (but we're not getting back into that! )

Everythings wrote up on paper but my eyes have glazed over to the point where me even trying to analyze page 12 is going to end up *waffle, waffle, waffle*

First thing tomorrow. Ehm yah, anyone who votes me before i have my reread up should be treated like scum imho. Especially if im hammered. Seeing as im like only 2votes away from my lynch. Eep!

[xRECKONERx]

Hello xRECKONERx!!! Nice to play with you again.

I think Mufasa is rather scummy for #23. I couldn't tell what he was trying to do... he basically jokingly hinted that the BC wagon should continue, then basically repeats Snow White's #18 posed to BC.

I questioned BC about it too. What do you think of me?

Was this directed at me? You quoted BC... but in any case... I've got a pretty solid town read on you. You seem to be doing actual scumhunting, which can be a difficult thing to do this early in the game.

Sanjay's #65 is odd, and I don't like it. FoS: Sanjay
I think the game had progressed far past the RVS by the time he posted that, and it was a blatant attempt to add nothing to the game. Apparently, dramonic agreed with my assessment in his post #82. When Sanjay does receive a vote and finally gets pressured, he decides to come to BC's party a little late and vote him.

First of all, what makes you think Dramonic was voting Sanjay because of that? Sanjay had given other helpful posts prior to the vote. Also, what makes you think Sanjay voted BC because of that, because it was like ten posts after Dramonic voted? I do agree that Sanjay was kind of late to join the bandwagon though.

As I said, Dram's post 82 is what made me think he agreed with Sanjay's scumminess. I think he voted him because of that because he had to put his vote somewhere, so he chose the easy wagon.

Suave's #104 is scummy as all get out, but I still don't like the Sanjay vibe a lot more than I dislike Suave using RVS-logic to explain a vote on Sanjay when we have obviously moved past the RVS. I also don't like his #110, where he says there's nothing to gather from the first few pages. If there's nothing to gather, or analyze, explain how I got my above paragraphs? And let's not even mention Suave's #129 where he openly admits to voting SW for regurgitated reasoning... right after he had just said he didn't see anything from what had happened so far literally 19 posts before.

I agree with you that MrSuave is probably scum, but I don't like the points you provide against him. Especially the last one.

How is my last point not valid?

Note: something about BC calling himself neutral after voting himself from the start just screams scum playing mind games.

Where'd BC call himself neutral?

I'll find the post later, but I saw it in my re-read.

I honestly can't believe the SW/saberwolf argument is still going on... dramonic hit the nail on the head with his post #150. Both SW and saber need to scumhunt instead of screaming bloody murder at each other for no apparent reason.

The screaming bloody murder at each other pretty much started the discussion imo.

I'm not saying it didn't, I'm saying the continuation of it makes it easy for scum to split the town into two different wagons, and doesn't fuel much discussion elsewhere.

Sanjay's #175: is he defending BC? Why? Sanjay, do you find BC townish?

I dislike this point.

Why?

xRECKONERx - Scum - Didn't like his catch-up post. Many of the points in it were bad.

I don't get it... you agreed with me that Sanjay was late to the BC wagon, you agreed that MrSuave was "probably scum" but didn't like my reasoning (for reasons unstated), and you disliked my point about Sanjay "defending" BC... but didn't say why. That's enough to give you a scum read on me?

[xRECKONERx]

Why do you feel asking for someone's justification for a vote constitutes defending? Is there a reason you didn't bring up post 96 as well?

I don't think they're in the same category. To me, 175 looks like you questioning Mufasa keeping his vote on BC because you're uncomfortable with it being there. 96 is more you prodding at saber's argument because his reasoning in the previous post was a little murky, which I agreed with. I didn't really think Mufasa's vote on BC needed to be explained because I also found BC sorta scummy, I guess.

[Sanjay]

So did you not care about Mufasa's reasons as long as his vote was on BC, or did you just assume he saw what you saw?

[xRECKONERx]

I assumed he saw what I saw.

[Sanjay]

And does that assumption jive with post 170 to you?

[xRECKONERx]

Whats wrong with being more talkative saberwolf it makes it so you dont have an easy reason to lynch me, but in all seriousness if BloodCovenant doesn't post today I am voting for Snow White

This is the post in question, right?

I actually can see why you'd question it now. I guess when I was re-reading, I looked at things on the whole from my perspective and didn't really get the feeling of where the game was at that very moment (if that makes sense). I

agree

that BC is scummy, but I don't agree with Mufasa's lack of reasoning.

I guess when I saw the post, I saw it as scumbuddy defending suspicious scum.

[Sanjay]

Based on post 170, how eager do you think Mufasa was about his BC vote?

[xRECKONERx]

I don't know... it did seem rather opportunistic. Did he ever clarify his reasons for suspecting BC? If he did, I don't recall. I know why

I

would have voted BC (though there are a few others I'd rather vote for now), but I don't want to speak for everyone.