Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Battle Mage]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty

Have 'at!

BM

[jasonT1981]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty

Have 'at!

BM

No, Explain please... I insist. I am not going to let you keep getting away with voting people without giving reasons. This is another example of why I am sure you are scum. Yet more vote hoping without explanation.

[Sotty7]

I don't follow your reasoning here. Firstly, unless I'm misremembering/can't find where he wrote it, I don't think DT said he was the BEST lynch...he said he was a good lynch. And if DT's behavior is "suspicious" and "bizzare", how is his lynch not better than, say, a Jason lynch (whom you say you have meta to support him being town)?

DT said something like his lynch would be the most informative didn't he? That's what I am talking about. As for putting Jason in there now I am obviously taking him out now. That was back when nearly all the game was suspicious of him and his flip would have provided info. I also had an issue with his vote on the claimed doc.

However yesterday I spent a long time (READ: Several hours) re-reading those games I posted in my JasonMeta post and it pretty much convinced me he is town. There is no way I am supporting his lynch today.

Speaking of that meta...what you posted was really informative. I have been getting gut town-feelings from Jason today, and this makes me feel more confident in that. Also, upon rereading, I am inclined to agree with Jason's assertion that Hito's Jason vote was opportunistic.

It was very opportunistic and is why he is my number two right now. He does later explain, but there is more after the fact while he is getting heat. While the reasoning is somewhat good, why not

say

that initially?

Also the whole “my vote isn't opportunistic because it wasn't pushing a bandwagon” still doesn't fly with me.

I'd like to clarify something about my vote. It was 'opportunistic' in that I seized the opportunity of Jason responding to BM's pressure to vote, and that this would provide a clear razor of whether or not he was attacking his attacker or if it was a 'coincidence' that he suspected BM, as it were. But you seem to be using the word to indicate that 'opportunistic' is someone synonymous with 'scummy' and frankly I don't see how. I've said before that I took great pains to ensure that was not a bandwagon-encouraging vote. So how exactly was it scummy? I did use the

opportunity

, so it is opportunistic in that sense, but that definition is a positive modifier; e.g, that I did my vote at the correct opportunity to elicit a meaningful response.

Dude no. lets take another look at your vote shall we?

Sorry for not posting. Because I had posted one page back I thought I was safe, I hadn't realized that that was all the way back on Wednesday. xD

So BM I am asking... infact no I am now DEMANDING you make a case against me and show how I am indeed 'confirmed scum and will be lynched today'

I demand your case NOW.. no more pussy footing, no more side stepping as you have done, I have asked many times, as have others. I DEMAND your case on me if I am confirmed scum.

Jason, his "case" is that you're more concerned with self-preservation than scumhunting and even when he's not starting a bandwagon you're simply yelling at the person attacking you rather than doing anything else. And that's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

vote: JasonT1981

Why is it scummy to ask for a case to made on you? Jason was annoyed because BM provided no case! His reaction is some what understandable in that respect, wouldn't you be pissed if someone kept going on that you were scum but yet wouldn't say why?

You tried to make this natural reaction seem scummy, it's not. The behavior

is

annoying and will raise the players heckles towards Jason. No one likes this kind of behavior... But it's not scummy! This is why your vote is opportunistic. You jumped all over him.

No, Explain please... I insist. I am not going to let you keep getting away with voting people without giving reasons. This is another example of why I am sure you are scum. Yet more vote hoping without explanation.

Eh. It's obviously because I am defending you, his once top suspect.

[jasonT1981]

...ok, Sotty. If you say so...I'm inclined to believe Jason is town. But Haylen? Well, gut is nice and helps to get reads. On early game. Not when it's day 2.

Sotty touched on this, but this quote makes me uncomfortable. Its almost going with the flow 'if you say so' not liking it at all.

[hitogoroshi]

It was very opportunistic and is why he is my number two right now. He does later explain, but there is more after the fact while he is getting heat. While the reasoning is somewhat good, why not

say

that initially?

Because, as I've stated, the purpose of the vote was to see whether or not Jason would attack his attacker immediately, and saying "hey Jason this is to see whether or not you'll immediately attack your attacker" would make it an exercise in futility. (Or perhaps not - apparently no one is reading what I post regarding information/vote dynamics.)

Also the whole “my vote isn't opportunistic because it wasn't pushing a bandwagon” still doesn't fly with me.

Once again, I'll quote myself on this:

I think the point none of you are getting is if someone (mostly BM that's doing this) casts the first or second vote, it is meaningless except for bandwagon potential, and a vote without rationale, and ergo, without bandwagon potential, is basicially nothing more than a little statement of intent. People reacting to BM's unjustified votes by voting him are missing the entire point - an early vote is ONLY AS STRONG AS IT'S JUSTIFICATION, and so, if there's an incredibly weak vote on you, and you respond with disproportionate force, you're showing that you're a paranoid sort. Now whether or not paranoia is a scum tell is a different question, but I think it's at least a slight one.

back to Sotty:

Why is it scummy to ask for a case to made on you? Jason was annoyed because BM provided no case! His reaction is some what understandable in that respect, wouldn't you be pissed if someone kept going on that you were scum but yet wouldn't say why?

You tried to make this natural reaction seem scummy, it's not. The behavior

is

annoying and will raise the players heckles towards Jason. No one likes this kind of behavior... But it's not scummy! This is why your vote is opportunistic. You jumped all over him.

It's not scummy to ask for a case to be made. But - and here I could reasonably re-quote my post I just quoted - BM had cast the FIRST AND ONLY VOTE ON JASON. And Jason literally did nothing else but attack him. No other scumhunting. Just sweating it out and demanding evidence. I might be peeved in his situation, but pissed? I don't know about you, but it's not suddenly about self-defense the first time someone ever casts a vote on me for no reason.

And I have a serious, serious problem with the phrasing "jumped all over him." Let's recap - I saw Jason attacking BM for, in essence, attacking him. I voted Jason to see whether or not he would continue to scum-hunt BM, ignoring my vote, or if I would become just as scummy in his eyes because I dared vote him. I was completely right - I suddenly became scum target #1 for doing such. And Sotty, how do you describe this?

Opportunistically jumping all over him.

The opportunity was a time when he was already responding to pressure and I could add more. He, beyond a shadow of a doubt, reacted disproportionately. To say I jumped all over him, and that this is a bad behavior, is to say that

it is an anti-town behavior to apply pressure to someone who is already showing a stressful reaction to player pressure.

It's saying that it's poor form to create a situation where Jason has to deal with pressure because he might deal with it wrong. I think it goes without saying that doing such - to 'jump all over someone' - is the entire purpose of active scumhunting (as opposed to analytical scumhunting.)

[jasonT1981]

WRONG....

It's not scummy to ask for a case to be made. But - and here I could reasonably re-quote my post I just quoted -

BM had cast the FIRST AND ONLY VOTE ON JASON. And Jason literally did nothing else but attack him. No other scumhunting.

Just sweating it out and demanding evidence. I might be peeved in his situation, but pissed? I don't know about you, but it's not suddenly about self-defense the first time someone ever casts a vote on me for no reason.

Hito, you seem to think that my suspicions on BM came ONLY AFTER his vote on me today, however if you will read back and see, my suspicions on BM where evident on day 1 also. And they carried through to day 2.

Infact I was VERY vocal against BM on day 1.

[hitogoroshi]

This is my point exactly! If you were legitimately chasing BM as your sole scum target, then it wouldn't have mattered that I voted for you. The point I proved is that for however many scum tells you say you've found on BM, those were outweighed by the simple fact that I was voting you.

[jasonT1981]

This is my point exactly! If you were legitimately chasing BM as your sole scum target, then it wouldn't have mattered that I voted for you. The point I proved is that for however many scum tells you say you've found on BM, those were outweighed by the simple fact that I was voting you.

So hold on... you blast me for only going after BM?

then blast me for going after you, based on how I feel about your vote?

I'm not allowed to suspect more than one person, no?

[hitogoroshi]

I said 'outweighed', not 'eliminated'. It's not about how many people you suspect, it's why. Your "suspicions" are in essence defined as "people who are voting for me are scum." This is incredibly anti-town, and the point I was/am "blasting" you on; however, I'm looking at the evidence Sotty provided to suggest that it's not a scumtell for you.

[Maemuki]

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Let's make a deal - I'll bake cookies if you explain, ok?

Just on my say so?

Yes, but if you flip scum I'll remember this.

Sotty touched on this, but this quote makes me uncomfortable. Its almost going with the flow 'if you say so' not liking it at all.

See above.

@ Jason, top three suspects for scum

without saying BM and hito.

[Battle Mage]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Unvote, Vote: Sotty

Have 'at!

BM

No, Explain please... I insist. I am not going to let you keep getting away with voting people without giving reasons. This is another example of why I am sure you are scum. Yet more vote hoping without explanation.

im pissed off now like you wouldnt believe. Not your fault tho, so ill humour you.

I'm voting Sotty because he has vouched for you, and if he flips town, we can take you as confirmed town. Nice huh?

I'd also be willing to lynch Haylen, on grounds she is useless, and Hito, on grounds he is far too good to be town here.

And i still cant bloody differentiate between Kitty and Mae, in terms of claims? -.-

BM

[Battle Mage]

ive lost this post twice now. so i cant even be arsed to explain.

Let's make a deal - I'll bake cookies if you explain, ok?

i see nothing in the contract about me getting said cookies.
Are you a tracker? Or the tracked?

@ Jason, top three suspects for scum

without saying BM and hito.

so what ur really asking is:

@Jason, 3rd, 4th and 5th suspects for scum?

lmfao

BM

[jasonT1981]

@ Jason, top three suspects for scum

without saying BM and hito.

Sigh... I thought I already DID this.... but I'll humor you also..

@ DTMaster re: post 778 request for List of suspected scum

BM – Obivious reasons outlined many times

Hito – his vote on me is very opportunistic, as well as him answering for BM, when I asked for BM's case. seems weird to me

Haylen – Moving up my scum list rapidly as she is not very active and seems content to lurk

YB/CSL – I have a very good scum meta on CSL and his actions matched. CSL has not really done much to ease my suspicions still but is providing more content which I feel is helpful

Mae: Seems to just randomly comment at the minute and not really making a contribute to the game.

Next time dont be so lazy and read game content that has already been posted?

there's 5 suspects there, including BM and Hito exclude them then there is 3.. so I hope that qualifies as acceptable for you.

[Vi]

Posting before prod.

I'm working on a post now, but I have to stop typing and start grading if I want to keep my job. The post should be ready at this time tomorrow at the very latest.

I apologize for failing at Life, Mafia, and Everything recently.

[KittyMo]

Hey everyone,
I do know what I have, finally. I've got these lovely things called cysts.
GOOD NEWS: I don't have some chronic illness or something that is life-threatening. Cysts are fairly harmless. ^.^
BAD NEWS: They won't go away for

2-3 months.

And while the pain isn't getting any worse, my pain killers aren't working as well, so I am feeling slowly worse. Believe me, it's no fun having your pain killers wear off 2 hours early... /rant

Issue though: Nikanor likes playing with Mastin, therefore he is a text wall masochist.

No, Nik hates text walls. I have no freakin' clue why he likes Mastin. Lemme go find this one game that I was reading a while back... (totally not stalking d3x [who doesn't even know me] and Nikanor. Of course not.)

Here we go, from Newbie 809:

By the way, Nikanor was a dumb kill. d3x was a better scum hunter but had just as little suspicion.

This definitely would've forced Nik to choose between idk and sirdan. And he had been randomly suspicious of ikd for a while.

I would've just voted for sirdan after ikd posted all those huge walls. No way was I going to read all those.

That's the only actually quotable evidence I have, but trust me, Nik hates text walls.

I smell favoritism from Kitty for a Kitty/Nik scum team or Kitty buddying. (is serious here)

Uhhhh.
DTMaster should know from personal experience with playing with Nik and I (I can't quote it, sorry) that when I have played town, I buddy Nik way more than I do when I have played scum. He should know that there are some people I buddy, cuz they're mah buddies. The fact that he's attacking me for this is odd. Explain, DT, please?

And i still cant bloody differentiate between Kitty and Mae, in terms of claims? -.-

Huh?

If you forgot what my claim was, I claimed that I didn't go anywhere last night.

-------

I'll work on getting out a suspicion list soon. I just find specific questions to have a priority.

Meeeeeeh.

[Vi]

ITT, Haylen posts nothing. Again <_<

Hay len. What do you think of replacing out, since you don't have time for this game?

-----

if it's true that (etc.) I would be perfectly happy unvoting.

...and then you would pursue whom?

Attacking your attacker instead of pro-actively hunting is anti-town behavior, regardless of your alignment.

Not necessarily. Is it anti-Town to call out a bad case (or nonexistent case) against yourself?

And perhaps most importantly, is jason scum?

-----

I like Mastin's posts

hahaha

because even though they are massive,

Chock-full of amazingness

they are not very dense

although sometimes they're written about dense people...

because of the amount of one-liners,

NOT TRUE.
Quotes take up more than one line.

and because he USES QUOTES EFFECTIVELY,

my rear

something other players in this game seem to have trouble doing.

Gee, I wonder who

And that was only one sentence, Mastin-style. Yes, he goes sentence by sentence.

In more related news, I'd like for you to restate your reasons on DTMaster. I only picked up on the self-vote.

-----

@Battle Mage: Have you ever seen scum grab someone by the proverbial lapels and say

MAKE A CASE ON ME OR GO HOME?

-----

People who need to post more actual content:
*Haylen
*DTMaster
*Maemuki
*More Haylen
*KittyMo (best wishes though)

[DTMaster]

@Town
Sorry guys. I've been doing catch ups for 2-3 games so far. I should get one done for this game tomorrow.

@Vi
I'll post my responses soon. You can verify that I am somewhat active, and have yet to produce vapour ware.

[hitogoroshi]

if it's true that (etc.) I would be perfectly happy unvoting.

...and then you would pursue whom?

My immediate concerns are a.) Getting Nik to actually say/do something of substance b.) slogging through DTM's post (that is, actually going to the posts he provided numbers for...gonna take a while :/) and c.) the obvious cajole lurkers to post more. (Hayl and Kitty mostly, although apparently they're both on the mend?)

Attacking your attacker instead of pro-actively hunting is anti-town behavior, regardless of your alignment.

Not necessarily. Is it anti-Town to call out a bad case (or nonexistent case) against yourself?

It's a matter of degree. When Haylen posted that her gut said I was scum, I responded with one thing that might trigger a gut reaction and left it there. If Haylen were to vote me on a gut reaction (as she has said she's perfectly willing to do) the appropriate reaction would be much the same thing. The inappropriate reaction is to say "THAT IS THE SCUMMIEST THING SOMEONE CAN EVER DO. ALL OTHER SCUMTELLS PALE IN COMPARISON TO A POORLY JUSTIFIED VOTE ON MYSELF. DIE SCUM DIE VOTE HAYLEN."

And perhaps most importantly, is jason scum?

That depends on meta-reads. I'll confess my reading of Sotty's post is going slowly - that wresting forum is formatting hell. If her summaries are accurate then I'm willing to concede that Jason is probably town; however, she would obviously say those summaries regardless of the actual game content so I'm checking how she said the game went versus how it actually went.

[Nikanor]

And that was only one sentence, Mastin-style.

Yes, and it took me not even a minute to go through. That much content would take me five minutes to go through if you were imitating DTM's posting style here.

Yes, he goes sentence by sentence.

Yeah, that part gets annoying.

In more related news

Related how?

I'd like for you to restate your reasons on DTMaster.

I already have.

I only picked up on the self-vote.

That's because that's pretty much the only reason I'm voting him, hehe.

[yellowbunny]

Because, as I've stated, the purpose of the vote was to see whether or not Jason would attack his attacker immediately, and saying "hey Jason this is to see whether or not you'll immediately attack your attacker" would make it an exercise in futility. (Or perhaps not - apparently no one is reading what I post regarding information/vote dynamics.)

So if that was the purpose, is it fair to say you didn't find Jason scummy when you voted him? Also, if you were right and he was just OMGUSing BM (or whoever attacks him), I am not convinced that is a horribly scummy thing to do. (Logically flawed, yes...but scummy.../shrugs) Explain your rationale, please.

@Nikanor: You have previously stated you thought Jason was scummy (example...your iso 70). Has the meta Sotty posted modified your opinion?

@Kitty: Geeze...glad to hear its nothing scary...feel better!!!

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor: You have previously stated you thought Jason was scummy (example...your iso 70). Has the meta Sotty posted modified your opinion?

Yes, I think I said that recently.

[Battle Mage]

@Vi - What do u mean by that?

Also, thanks Kitty. I'd also be willing to string you and Vi up i think, but not Mae. Let's just run somebody up, k?

BM

[Maemuki]

And i still cant bloody differentiate between Kitty and Mae, in terms of claims? -.-

lolwhut. I'm the tracker, Kitty's the tracked. Duuh.

so what ur really asking is:

@Jason, 3rd, 4th and 5th suspects for scum?

Pretty much, so?

Also, you get to keep the cookies. I can even give you a cake, I just want you to justify the Sotty vote.

@ Jason, heh, sorry. Missed it. >.<

@ Kitty, hope you get better!

Also, thanks Kitty. I'd also be willing to string you and Vi up i think, but not Mae. Let's just run somebody up, k?

Why would you like to string Kitty/Zii up, but not me?

[Haylen]

BM. You know exactly where I am right now, so dont go saying Im lurking. Im not replacing out, I never replace out. I'm gonna post content tonight. But right now Im busy. Yes busy, just like every bugger else in the world.

[Battle Mage]

BM. You know exactly where I am right now, so dont go saying Im lurking. Im not replacing out, I never replace out. I'm gonna post content tonight. But right now Im busy. Yes busy, just like every bugger else in the world.

You should replace out, if participating is that much of an issue for you. Saying "i will post content" is cheap. You should post because you want to participate, not because you feel it benefits us to know what you are thinking. Find scum.

BM