Mini 859 - Cleansing of Falls Church - Over

[Looker]

unvote

No not KoC...

that wouldnt accomplish

the goal

too well

. If you moved to CA, or we both moved to DJ that might work better. I guess it depends where the new replacements vote ends up.

The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.

Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because town are on his wagon already so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.

Why funny? I always have my set of goal to accomplish, built around defending town reads and lynching scum reads. One of my goals is not to have a DRK lynch.

Best way to reach two goals is a CA lynch, but a non-town read lynch is better then a no lynch, or town read one. KoC vote detracts from both goal.

My apologies, it reminded me of my math teacher. And I understand: a KoC vote would, indeed, detract from both of your goals. It's just that, with the situation currently as it is, neither lynch would help me set things straight either. I guess a re-evaluation is in order.

The purple part's funny to me in an off-beat kind of way.

Move to CA - I'm currently under the assumption that both CA and DRK are town.
Move to DJ - I don't know. DJ seems to be a great town target to me, because

town are on his wagon already

so you wouldn't look scummy if he flipped town. I think I'll stick with KoC.

What do you mean by the italicized? I would imagine there are town on every wagon. What makes the DJ wagon special?

Also, so psyched that archaebob is here.

My fingers will keep you updated with what my brain has to say whenever she gets back. So far, it seems, no one has had anything other than town reads on those perpetrating the DJ wagon.

unvote

This game is a real piece of work, lol. Y'all will be

very

lucky if I'm able to sort through this before next week.

And I love you too Sanjay.

I can't wait to see what you have to say.

[Sanjay]

Looker, do you have town reads on ZazieR, Shrinehme and Raskol?

If so, tell us about why.

[Looker]

- Currently, yes.
- Because they're not the ones I think are the Mafia, if that explanation will suffice.

You're in a room with an elephant on your right and a plant on your left. Over the intercom comes a voice, "Which one is the elephant."

You point to the elephant.

"Why? Why not the item on your left?"

"Because the elephant's right there," you say, still pointing.

"But why? What makes you believe that that which is on your right is an elephant?"

"Because it's an elephant!"

"Do you get non-elephant reads from the item on your left...?"

"No, what are you talking abo...?"

"Then why do you think what's on your..."

"It's an elephant."

"Why?"

"Because it's an elephant."

"Why would...?"

"Because it's G*ddamn elephant!"

ENDEX

[DeathRowKitty]

Under a week until deadline and I currently have the most votes despite lack of any sort of decent case whatsoever. I don't get it.

Let's see who's on my wagon so I can understand this better:

1. CA is on my wagon because I somehow started the jester discussion.
2. KoC is on my wagon because impying a jester is scummy (waiting on his response as to why it's scummy in my situation).
3. BB is on my wagon because...he read the argument between me and CA and yet didn't know I implied a jester (@ BB: If I haven't already directed the question at you, why would implying a jester be scummy in my situation, considering what I've pointed out).
4. DJ is on my wagon for everything I ever posted in my entire life and anything I have yet to post, but may or may not post in this or any future game.

Nope, still don't get it.

@Anyone and everyone
Am I just crazy or is something wrong here?

---

On a lighter note, lol @ Looker's post. I have an odd feeling that's not what SJ was looking for though...

[Looker]

Under a week until deadline and I currently have the most votes despite lack of any sort of decent case whatsoever. I don't get it.

Let's see who's on my wagon so I can understand this better:

1. CA is on my wagon because I somehow started the jester discussion.
2. KoC is on my wagon because impying a jester is scummy (waiting on his response as to why it's scummy in my situation).
3. BB is on my wagon because...he read the argument between me and CA and yet didn't know I implied a jester (@ BB: If I haven't already directed the question at you, why would implying a jester be scummy in my situation, considering what I've pointed out).
4. DJ is on my wagon for everything I ever posted in my entire life and anything I have yet to post, but may or may not post in this or any future game.

Nope, still don't get it.

@Anyone and everyone
Am I just crazy or is something wrong here?

---

On a lighter note, lol @ Looker's post. I have an odd feeling that's not what SJ was looking for though...

Town 1. I still don't get the Jester Wars.
Mafia 2. I don't get how it's scummy in any situation
Mafia 3.

Unvote:
Vote: Shrinehme

Nice. I want to vote you, but moreso probably because I don't trust your intelligence than I believe you to be scum.

__?__4. Why don't you just vote him instead? That's the most suspicious reason presented of the four.

[DeathRowKitty]

I still think CA is scummier. DJ is definitely second scummiest in my mind, but I don't plan on moving my vote unless I know the CA lynch isn't going to happen. If deadline comes closer and it has to be either DJ or [insert any name besides CA], I wouldn't hesitate to vote for him.

Can you explain why you think CA is town?

[Raskol]

unvote

---on a closer read-through, I'm nost sure I can justify to myself keeping my vote on don_johnson.

I still don't much like the CA or DRK wagons, though.

For everyone on the DRK and CA wagons: could you summarize your case against them briefly? Please tell me the reasons why you are currently voting for your target and why you think other people should consider them a better lynch than anyone else.

[Looker]

Q: Why would you think CA is town?
A: Because I don't see why you think he's scum. But, on top of that, I fail to see the reverance of the Jester Wars.

Hmm...I wonder where Zaz and Shrine have gone...

[Raskol]

The Jester wars were indeed a giant mass of nulltell. The positions taken by either side on them are of more interest to me.

Every post that's made by someone who is voting for either CA or DRK without me a solid case summary is going to make me more and more suspicious of them.

[Raskol]

EBWOP: without *giving* me

[Furry]

Already have done quite a bit of speaking on the CA wagon... but ok

I have covered his unwillingness to take a stance day one
his reaction over the "intentionally scummy" WIFOM
his really bad vote on EC
AtE stuff (someone else still needs to look at this)

all thats really left is the fact that he hasnt stopped talking about jesters for almost the rest of the game. Nearly every post he made since around the halfway point has been arguing over them, which really is not going to be productive at all, and should stop, yet never did. It took the place of scumhunting for him (the 'you talked about jesters, must be scum' doesnt qualify).

Like I said, more then willing to jump to a DJ wagon if it means not having a DRK lynch, but CA is the better lynch out of all three.

[Raskol]

Why limit it to those three?

[Furry]

I dont think I stand any chance of swinging an 'other' lynch in five days. It also lowers CA and raises DKR lynch chances.

[Looker]

The Jester wars were indeed a giant mass of nulltell. The positions taken by either side on them are of more interest to me.

Every post that's made by someone who is voting for either CA or DRK without me a solid case summary is going to make me more and more suspicious of them.

Is this a warning/threat or a breadcrumb?

Off-topic: What exactly is a "case" supposed to look like? Because I really don't get that much into them.

I just kinda

vote Sanjay

and then say why:
Trying to find the Mafia amongst the ranks of Bear, Cydonia, Sanjay, and Furry.

[Kreriov]

Vote Count

don_johnson (3) - ZazieR Shrinehme
ConfidAnon (3) - Sanjay DeathRowKitty Furry

DeathRowKitty (4)

- ConfidAnon don_johnson BigBear Knight of Cydonia
Sanjay (1) - Looker

Not voting: archaebob Raskol

With 12 alive is takes 7 to lynch.

Looking for a replacement for Shrinehme

In response to his third prod Shrinehme requested a replacement. I am particularly upset with him because he requested it not because he does not have time, but because he did not like someone in the game. To my knowledge, no one has insulted or otherwise abused him in this game. Replacing out like that is simply wrong. It is unfair to all of you and disrespectful to me. For my part, he will not be welcome in any future games I run and I will not join any games for which he signs up.

I will be considering extending the deadline and am requesting input on that issue. I will be V/LA starting on Wed, 11 Nov, until Sun, 15 Nov. No biggie if that is the night phase and people are sending in actions. If I extend it, however, I will not be able to post vote counts or approve a replacement. Anyway, that is the situation. I feel we have a really good group in here now and wish you all had been here from the begining.

DEADLINE SET: 10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 3pm EST

[archaebob]

nobody else leave,

please

. this game is already too confusing

More than half of this game is replacements...lol.

I'm just burning through this thread like it's Southern California, and might even have something to say tomorrow. We'll see.

[Looker]

Vote Count

don_johnson (3) - ZazieR Shrinehme
ConfidAnon (3) - Sanjay DeathRowKitty Furry

DeathRowKitty (4)

- ConfidAnon don_johnson BigBear Knight of Cydonia
Sanjay (1) - Looker

Not voting: archaebob Raskol

With 12 alive is takes 7 to lynch.

Looking for a replacement for Shrinehme

In response to his third prod Shrinehme requested a replacement. I am particularly upset with him because he requested it not because he does not have time, but because he did not like someone in the game. To my knowledge, no one has insulted or otherwise abused him in this game. Replacing out like that is simply wrong. It is unfair to all of you and disrespectful to me. For my part, he will not be welcome in any future games I run and I will not join any games for which he signs up.

I will be considering extending the deadline and am requesting input on that issue. I will be V/LA starting on Wed, 11 Nov, until Sun, 15 Nov. No biggie if that is the night phase and people are sending in actions. If I extend it, however, I will not be able to post vote counts or approve a replacement. Anyway, that is the situation. I feel we have a really good group in here now and wish you all had been here from the begining.

DEADLINE SET: 10 Nov 2009 (Tues) @ 3pm EST

I say no on the deadline extension and I would have rathered Shrinehme stick around, but it is what it is.

And RE:The Current Group - yea, I know, I'm awesome.

nobody else leave,

please

. this game is already too confusing

More than half of this game is replacements...lol.

I'm just burning through this thread like it's Southern California, and might even have something to say tomorrow. We'll see.

Can't wait to hear what you have to say, or see who you have to vote. Moreso the latter than anything else. Let's

kill

some people.

[DeathRowKitty]

Q: Why would you think CA is town?
A: Because I don't see why you think he's scum. But, on top of that, I fail to see the reverance of the Jester Wars.

For me, it's not about jesters. It's about what I see as an attempt by CA to push undeserved suspicion on me. The jester argument from (from my perspective at least) is to show that CA doesn't actually have a real argument and wants suspicion on me for no real reason.

@Raskol
Well, that's the gist of my case on CA. Post 459 contains my original case on CA (note: that post is not all-inclusive; it only covers the jester argument). There's also the issue of unvoting a semi-random vote (coincidentally enough it was on me) and switching to a random vote. I remember more of CA's recent stuff (things that happened since he came back from extended leave).

---

As for the deadline extension thing, I think it depends on shrine's replacement. If he/she comes in and says he/she needs a week for example, the game might benefit from a deadline extension. If the replacement either reads really fast or really slow, then a deadline extension would just make the day drag on.

[ConfidAnon]

Do you understand why I asked people to tell me why bringing up a jester is scummy?

To be honest, no. Mind explaining it to me, because I really don't see how this question connects to my post? (a little out of it today, lol)

Formation of wagons is quite a big one. Most of the people I have had anti-town reads on are attacking DKR. DRK has been on wagons of people that I have anti-town reads on. I know thinking the same things are not completely indicative of alignment, but I trust my reads enough.

Also I think the jester thing is a really bad thing to make a wagon on. Jester speculation is stupid, not scummy. Trying to make it scummy and actually basing an entire case off anything jester related, is far more scummy.

So wagons + other reads + case on DRK = town to me, and I am willing to vote most anyone but DRK to stop that lynch

Meh, obviously I disagree with your reasoning on the DRK town read.

And the reason I suspect him is more so because of the way he reacted when I pointed out the jester thing than the jester thing itself.

Case summary: The jester thing was a minor scummy point imo, but his reaction to my mentioning it solidified my suspicions.

[Sanjay]

The main reason I was voting for ConfidAnon was suspicious scumhunting:

A few times, ConfidAnon sort of threw around some wiki tells, like here and here and here. Unless pressed he doesn't actually explain why in the specific instance he thinks it is scummy. I think it could be scum trying to make other people look scummy without actually committing strongly to positions.

Also, a lot of his case against DRK is silly. DRK mentioned jesters before nook, but DRK did not start a jester discussion. DRK's answer was reasonable given that, and though this was most of the basis for CA's case, he has not abandoned it. This drew my attention because I feel like scum might be more inclined to hold on to bad cases, because they have less of a feel for what are good cases because they aren't making genuine cases.

I don't think making the initial case against DRK is scummy. I can definitely see why town would do it. But I can't for the life of me understand why it is a good case.

What first caught my attention was this, which I still don't like. Seems kind of like fence-sitting right now.

I'm not really positive I want the vote on him right now though. A lot of the reasons I think Confid is scum could be written off to personal style.

I'm kind of inclined to switch my vote to DJ if anyone, though I'll re-read him to see if that is justified.

[Sanjay]

Raskol, why aren't you feeling like riding the DJ train anymore?

[don_johnson]

just a post to update. one big test down, one more to go in the morning. i hope to catch up this weekend, however, the chance of me being fully caught up by deadline is slim. i am not afraid to ride a vote based on an incomplete read(wouldn't be the first time), but if you guys want me fully caught up i need an extension. that said: i will do my best this weekend so you can hold extension requests til monday.

furry: why me over CA? i haven't exactly followed your train of thought, but i remember you questioning my wagon upon entry to the thread.

[ConfidAnon]

The main reason I was voting for ConfidAnon was suspicious scumhunting:

A few times, ConfidAnon sort of threw around some wiki tells, like here and here and here. Unless pressed he doesn't actually explain why in the specific instance he thinks it is scummy. I think it could be scum trying to make other people look scummy without actually committing strongly to positions.

Also, a lot of his case against DRK is silly. DRK mentioned jesters before nook, but DRK did not start a jester discussion. DRK's answer was reasonable given that, and though this was most of the basis for CA's case, he has not abandoned it. This drew my attention because I feel like scum might be more inclined to hold on to bad cases, because they have less of a feel for what are good cases because they aren't making genuine cases.

I don't think making the initial case against DRK is scummy. I can definitely see why town would do it. But I can't for the life of me understand why it is a good case.

What first caught my attention was this, which I still don't like. Seems kind of like fence-sitting right now.

I'm not really positive I want the vote on him right now though. A lot of the reasons I think Confid is scum could be written off to personal style.

I'm kind of inclined to switch my vote to DJ if anyone, though I'll re-read him to see if that is justified.

Really, my only defense to the wiki tells is that I'm a relatively new player . . . I'm not that great at scumhunting and building cases yet.

[Furry]

furry: why me over CA? i haven't exactly followed your train of thought, but i remember you questioning my wagon upon entry to the thread.

Its CA over you over DRK. If it came down to you or DRK, I would vote you without much thought. I would like a CA lynch much more, but there are other lynches (whoever replaced PB, shine) who also would be acceptable to me. The case on your predicessor isnt overpowering, which is what I was checking, but it is there.

We need to figure out the replacement/deadline deal soon though, so we know what needs to be done about wagons.

[Kreriov]

I will make a decision tommorrow before I leave work. Right now I am inclined to keep the deadline in place.