Mini 870: Melee mafia. (Mod Abandoned)

[Kirbyoshi]

@Stark: Welcome! A point of clarification: you listed me as a "Possible Lynch Target". Does that mean you'd like to see me dead, or that you think I'm likely to be the MC?

[Snow_Bunny]

I fall a bit behind and I don't have much time now to catch up. Expect something useful from me in the evening.

[Yosarian2]

Hi Stark! Awesome to see you here again.



On another note, I'm a little confused by the mod ruling. You have to go within 24 hours of the last person who went, or within the weekend? I guess this means I have to attack sometime this weekend?

[stark]

@Stark: Welcome! A point of clarification: you listed me as a "Possible Lynch Target". Does that mean you'd like to see me dead, or that you think I'm likely to be the MC?

Nono, neither. I'm simply saying that there seems to be a lot of popular resentment against you for reasons unbeknownst to me, and I'd like it explained.


Also, maybe I missed it. What is the MC?

[Nuwen]

Huge NO on the idea of an "enforcement team."

Players on the squad - even though they're volunteers - have a reason other than their own to do damage. Unacceptable. If someone commits to the squad, he or she can dish out damage in the name of consensus without being personally culpable.

• Corollary: even though I want us to lynch by majority, every player doing damage must be responsible for his/her part in the lynch. If an individual player doesn't want to participate in a lynch, that's fine. Appointing a squad muddies motivations and makes damage info more difficult to read

TSQ hasn't mentioned

anything

about a real-time deadline for the full day. I don't think day 1 should drag on forever, but we shouldn't feel the need to act during this first melee phase. We can (theoretically) go through as many discussion-melee cycles as we want, doing no damage until a rough majority is ironed out. Don't feel rushed into submitting actions this phase. Damage done during this first melee phase is practically equivalent to speedlynching - this game is barely out of its "RVS" stage.

[Yosarian2]

TSQ hasn't mentioned

anything

about a real-time deadline for the full day. I don't think day 1 should drag on forever, but we shouldn't feel the need to act during this first melee phase. We can (theoretically) go through as many discussion-melee cycles as we want, doing no damage until a rough majority is ironed out. Don't feel rushed into submitting actions this phase. Damage done during this first melee phase is practically equivalent to speedlynching - this game is barely out of its "RVS" stage.

Hmm.

It's not a bad idea, but I would only agree to this if everyone else did. If other people are going to be attacking, though, then I will as well, because otherwise scum are likely to be over-represented in the day game.

[Kirbyoshi]

I'm cool with No-Attacking until we reach a consensus.

[Nuwen]

I don't understand the case against Kirby either. Looks like alignment neutral semantic bullshit to me so far.

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TonyMontana is my lynch of choice at the moment. Resisting the vote system set off all sorts of

red

(colored for

clarity

!) bells.

Besides, why does it matter how many people are close to death? Only one will die anyway, and I fail to see the advantage of everyone following the majority.

Vote: TonyMontana

[stark]

I'm down for a ceasefire

[Thestatusquo]

Each player has a day to complete their action after the person in front of them has been resolved. Unless that happens to come on a weekend, which I am counting together as one day, due to the fact that sometimes people have a harder time getting to a computer on the weekends.

[Yosarian2]

TonyMontana is my lynch of choice at the moment. Resisting the vote system set off all sorts of

red

(colored for

clarity

!) bells.

Besides, why does it matter how many people are close to death? Only one will die anyway, and I fail to see the advantage of everyone following the majority.

Vote: TonyMontana

It's probably worth mentioning that this was back when he misunderstood the rules; at the time he said that, he apparently thought

I was under the impression that stats were reset each day...

Still, I am not happy with any of his recent contributions. Recently he's been defending himself but not actually helping the town at all; I don't have a problem with defending himself, but most of his defense has just been to call Kast a liar, to claim he's "blowing smoke", and to basically stonewall. I wouldn't mind a Tony lynch at the moment.

[Snow_Bunny]

You are also potentially buddying with me, and potentially using me to to validate your position. You could be setting up to excuse any negative results by blaming me.

You have my word that if Tony flips scum, none of the blame will go to you.

I don't like this at all. You are not anyone to clear such thing. I'm seeing this as "go ahead and help me mislynch this one over here. Don't worry, I'll cover your back tomorrow morning."

1. How good of a scumhunter are you? No, really. Attach a percent to your abilities - is it any higher than random?
2. What kinds of damage patterns are scum likely to take? How would they differ from vig-style town patterns?

"So, guys, who should I NK at nights, and how should I act during day to blend in?"

MFOS: Nuwen.

Why do you need that info? Seems like a real fishing/budding here.

TSQ hasn't mentioned

anything

about a real-time deadline for the full day. I don't think day 1 should drag on forever, but we shouldn't feel the need to act during this first melee phase. We can (theoretically) go through as many discussion-melee cycles as we want, doing no damage until a rough majority is ironed out. Don't feel rushed into submitting actions this phase. Damage done during this first melee phase is practically equivalent to speedlynching - this game is barely out of its "RVS" stage.

Hmm... It's a good idea, but I personally don't think it's fair with the mod. This falls, imo, under finding a loop hole in the rules and use it to our own advantage. Sorry but I like to play it fair, and if the mod already made his point (this is technically the same than extending a single melee phase), then we should refrain from use it. I don't want to rush town, nor anything like that. Hell no. But I also don't want to cheat the mod, and I wouldn't feel right doing this (unless of course, the mod have NO PROBLEM AT ALL. At all.)

My scumlist goes as follows:

Kirby
Nuwen
Tony

Stark, my case on Kirby bases mostly on gut and what I said here:

Another reason I want to put a stop to the focus on mechanics is that I play better without talking about them. Once people start dropping some actual scumtells, my play will become much smoother.

So..... You're basically saying that you need someone to claim scum in order to start playing good? That's your scumhunting method? And I considered myself bad at it... ¬_¬ I really didn't like this post. Trying to justify yourself lamely. And, paired with your reaction against Tajo's attack, I'm getting a scum vibe from you. I'd vote for you, but there's also Tony, who contradicted himself, and who shows a scum play in general (trying to always go with majority).

I can see a Kirby-Tony-???? scum team with Kirby trying to early bus Tony.

Vote: Kirby

[Kirbyoshi]

Snow, that post does alot of what I would call "assuming the worst."

You assume that I know for sure that Tony is a mislynch, and that I'm scum trying to get rid of him.
You assume that Nuwen wants info that, if known, could only hurt town (which I don't see, tbh)
You assume that TSQ doesn't want us basically NL'ing first go-round.
You assume that Tony's my scumbuddy, and that I'm trying to bus him.

Wait a minute...

I'm seeing this as "go ahead and help me mislynch this one (Tony) over here. Don't worry, I'll cover your back tomorrow morning."

I can see a Kirby-Tony-???? scum team with Kirby trying to early bus Tony.

Huh??? Go-go Gadget contradiction explanation please.

[drowmage]

I'm down for a kirby lynch. The case on tony is being pushed by scum.

[Kirbyoshi]

Interesting Drow; can you prove it?

[Nuwen]

1. How good of a scumhunter are you? No, really. Attach a percent to your abilities - is it any higher than random?
2. What kinds of damage patterns are scum likely to take? How would they differ from vig-style town patterns?

"So, guys, who should I NK at nights, and how should I act during day to blend in?"

"How can I force a little perspective on a game that will be auto-lost if every town player thinks he's the bestest, awesomest scumhunter in the world?"

Number 2 is half-rhetorical: the answer is "Oh my goodness, Nuwen! Scum damage will be near-indecipherable from town players who choose to act alone!"

Hmm... It's a good idea, but I personally don't think it's fair with the mod. This falls, imo, under finding a loop hole in the rules and use it to our own advantage. Sorry but I like to play it fair, and if the mod already made his point (this is technically the same than extending a single melee phase), then we should refrain from use it. I don't want to rush town, nor anything like that. Hell no. But I also don't want to cheat the mod, and I wouldn't feel right doing this (unless of course, the mod have NO PROBLEM AT ALL. At all.)

"Fair to the mod" is irrelevant. Do you share a win condition with our mod? TSQ's rule change prevents stalling a

single

melee phase to keep the game from dying. I've already cautioned against letting Day 1 last too long. If the mod has a problem, let him implement new rules or learn from his mistakes. I see no reason not to bend the mechanics of experimental game to give the town an advantage.

Example number 1 of scum trying to writhe out of a very pro-town plan.

[Nuwen]

TonyMontana, who are your top three lynches?

[TonyMontana]

But consistant with my previous claim that you blow alot of smoke.

To be clear, you are admitting that you contradicted yourself to avoid giving a straight answer to a straight question.

@Kast: That's not what he said at all. That's not even worthy of being called a strawman; you're hearing what you want to hear, regardless of whether he said it or not. I have no idea how that could even be implied by what he said.

---

@TM Case-
(1) Claimed that players voting for their suspects was infeasible (Q1). Later changed this to claim voting should be done. Much later claimed that his initial statement meant players should not be prohibited from rogue behavior (Q4). Two objective direct contradictions.
(2) Was in favor of actions being in thread. Change his position to non-attack actions should be okay to PM. Objective indirect contradiction.

(1) You lie. I've corrected you repeatedly on this point, but you just won't listen. I never said you shouldn't vote, and I've been consistent in saying voting is a good way to emphasize any suspicions and gathering a consensus.
(2) Again you make up contradictions where the is once. I never amended my statements on this. I said that there was point in trying to hide attacks, and I don't think all actions should be posted in thread, if a person thinks it benefits town to not do so.

[TonyMontana]

TonyMontana is my lynch of choice at the moment. Resisting the vote system set off all sorts of

red

(colored for

clarity

!) bells.

Besides, why does it matter how many people are close to death? Only one will die anyway, and I fail to see the advantage of everyone following the majority.

Vote: TonyMontana

You didn't wanna explain why this quote was bad?
I mean, I know why this quote is bad, but as Yos pointed out, I didn't know damage was permanent at the time.

And you should also explain what "resisting the vote system" entails, and why I would be doing it as scum.

[TonyMontana]

(2) Again you make up contradictions where the is

none

. I never amended my statements on this. I said that there was

no

point in trying to hide attacks, and I don't think all actions should be posted in thread, if a person thinks it benefits town to not do so.

[Nuwen]

You. Top three lynches, please. Now.

[TonyMontana]

Kirb
Kast
Myself

[Nuwen]

Wait, you want to lynch yourself? I want to know who you think is scum, not who you believe is likely to be lynched.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Nuwen: Well, you may like to play bending the rules to gain advantage, I rather not. You are chaotic while I'm lawful. Got it? It's no fun for me if I need to bend rules to win a game. Maybe it's for you, but not for me.

@Kirby: I make a lot of assumptions there, but unless scum slip here and there, it's actually needed to assume somethings to find them. And also, I was just given my interpretation of things. Oh, and the "contradiction" you "find" it's actually none of that. The quote at the end of my posts was referring to an early post of mine. And, I only said "I can see" not "I strongly believe".

Both of you, trying to discredit me won't take you anywhere.

[Kirbyoshi]

And what if all your assumptions are wrong? You've already proven to us that you've apparently changed your mind on one of them, so what's to keep the others from being false?

You're also being hesitant over something that doesn't call for hesitation. The way this game is set up, I think Mod would be delighted to see us use the game mechanic of "if no one dies during a melee phase, another discussion phase without a Night starts." You hesitating to agree to something that, if disagreed on, could only help scum, is scummy. In fact, you're rising in my suspicions really fast.