Mini 62: Pokemafia!

[mlaker]

And WHY are you suspicious of me again? I SWARE that I am pro-trainer. Although right now I think you might be rocket.

Vote massive

[massive]

Uh, shouldn't that be "trainer"? As of yet we have no reason to believe that there are roles like gym leaders or other TV-show characters beyond the trainers ... in fact, it would be my opinion that if there WERE certain characters, it would unbalance the town and push aside all the hard work that was done on our Pokemon.

Well, here are my reasons. I started out voting for you because, in the last few games where we have played together and you have been Mafia (at least two to my knowledge), you have acted exactly like you were acting at the beginning of the game: little inflamatory posts seemingly designed to whip up the ire of the populace without involving yourself in any real debate. That was a good place to start for me; better than random in any event. Then you "cleared" PBuG with your announcement of having the same Pokemon as he did, when that doesn't clear him OR you despite what the town thinks. THEN the random shifting of focus to me for "protecting PBuG" for merely stating I would have said the same thing as he did: that I was a generic townie (and certainly not stated I was "pro-trainer"). THEN the pro-trainer statement, which I delineated above.

There. Do you want me to ask why you're voting me? Or do you want to put OMGUS in your next vote for me?

[mlaker]

I have already stated that I was wrong in clearing PBuG with Bulbasaur because rockets might be able to have pokemon too.

[Fletcher]

I agree with you massive but right now I don't think it's enough evidence to vote for him. I will vote him if I see anything else though.

[Stewie]

can we get a vote-count?

[mathcam]

Well, I'm sure this will be played off as just an innocent slip-up, but I sure find it interesting that mathcam has commented twice about maintaining his PBuG vote despite having unvoted him at the top of this page.

Ummm, yep. I could have sworn I revoted him. I even have it written in my notes that I did. Oh well.

Vote: PBuG

Cam

[massive]

At this point, I'd be happy with a random lynching. You guys sure are stalling this game out.

Unofficial vote count:

massive (2):

Maverick, mlaker

PBuG (2):

shadyforce, mathcam

mlaker (4):

massive, discer, Stewie, PBuG

No vote: Someone, Fletcher

Well, since no one seems to want to press mlaker for info, and he's not giving any up despite having four votes, does anyone else have any good ideas?

[mlaker]

Do you want me to claim? I wasn't aware I had 4 votes but will not give up any more of my pokemon info unless I am asked. And since no one seems to want to push massive and a random lynching although not desired seems the best thing right now for info

Unvote massive Vote PBuG FOS Maverick

where is Maverick anyway?

[TBuG]

To be honest, at this point, I whole-heartedly believe both massive and mlaker (and myself ) in sayng they are protown. However, voting mlaker is the only thing keeping me safe, so my vote stands.

[shadyforce]

Well this game has stagnated (where the heck is mole?) and I'd be quite happy to see PBuG killed just to get it out of the way. I don't see us geting any more info today and PBuG is imo the best target.

Confirm Vote: PBuG

[massive]

The reason that we're stagnating is because we're all deadset on voting for people for first-day reasons and no one's willing to move. We've apparently gotten all the info we can, and I'm not willing to start more bandwagons just to gain info. Mole seems to be content to let us wade through our mediocrity though.

shadyforce: Pretend I'm totally lazy and walk me through again why you feel PBuG is the best lynch choice for today? Or cam, either one.

[mathcam]

He's the only person I find at all suspicious other than my permanent suspicion of mlaker. I think PBuG made a slip by calling his role "generic townie". Of course he could have been good and done this, but if he was evil, he probably would have

had

to do it, because he didn't know what the "generic townie" was actually called.

I may have had more reasons and I probably stated them in an earlier post. Maybe someone coudl explain the mlaker bandwagon to me?

Cam

[massive]

At the top of this page are listed reasons why I, at least, am still voting for mlaker.

And, uh, wow. I just looked at my role PM and realized something. There's no reason anyone should have had to make up the "generic townie" name, since both Boo and Electra were "generic townies" and are listed by the generic townie name, "Pokemon Trainer," on the front page AND in their death scene on page 2.

Sorry, cam, but the continued argument of the name slip-up now earns you a

healthy FOS

. Maybe YOU didn't know the real name of the "generic townie" despite it being listed in the thread already?

[mlaker]

Well I definetely think if PBuG is a rocket we should lynch massive tomorrow. He's backing him up and in my role PM I don't recall saying I'm a generic townie, it said I was a trainer. And if memory serves a generic townie would have no special abilities and well guess what PBuG has pokemon which are basically abilities.

Definite Confirm Vote PBuG

[mathcam]

I don't understand that post at all. You're saying that I shouldn't be suspicious of PBuG because I don't think he knew the name of the "generic townie" role, but now you're suspicious of me because

I

might not have known the name of the generic townie role?

And I wasn't continuing an argument...I was re-stating it because you asked me to. I can certainly see why people wouldn't find it as suspicious as I do, but that doesn't mean I didn't/don't find it suspicious. On top of this is that generic townie is the easiest claim for evil. This of course doesn't mean he's not a townie, but a) it's a likely role for evil to pick early in the game before they know the game's setup, and b) if he's telling the truth, lynching him is better than killing someone with a powerful pro-town role.

As for mlaker, I just don't see it. This is one of the few times I've been in a game with mlaker and not found him incredibly suspicious. One of the arguments is that he tried to vouch for PBuG...but that's not evil in and of itself unless PBuG is his fellow mafia anyway.

I feel like you're trying to convince the rest of the town to jump on the superior bandwagon. It's worth noting the people joining you on the mlaker bandawgon are PBuG, discer, and Stewie, who have given the below reasons:

Vote: mlaker

, because I should do something and don't know what else to go on.

Vote: mlaker

, reason stated above by discer.

Vote: mlaker

, same as Stewie and discer.

Cam

[massive]

I didn't mean to imply you were continuing it here without provocation, cam. But you also brought it up two or three times on page 5 during your "confirm non-vote" stage. Maybe we all forgot that the term "Pokemon Trainer" was already put out in the thread, but saying he was forced to say "generic townie" because he couldn't say "Pokemon Trainer" with certainty is incorrect. And I'm saying I get to be suspicious of you (at least for now) because I know the "generic townie" name WAS out in the thread and no longer a criteria in and of itself for lynching despite the continued discussion of it.

I do agree, though, that "generic townie" right now is the easiest claim a Mafia can make. We've had two dead trainers already, and two more (now that mlaker has shifted his claim from "pro-trainer" to "trainer") in the thread, and I reckon we'll have more before the game is done. But your argument originally was "he didn't know the townie name" and not "townie is the easiest claim for him to make". It's semantics.

And I'm also not saying that mlaker is trying to clear PBuG by claiming the same Pokemon. It feels more like mlaker was trying to clear his OWN name by saying "Oh, obviously PBuG is town since I am town and have the same Pokemon," thus tying his innocence to PBuG's.

The bandwagon is less than spectacular. Not only is it not going to lynch anyone, but it's alsos having no effect in terms of gathering information. As I said earlier, mlaker is the most suspicious at this time, to me. The only other options currently are to bandwagon PBuG (which we already did, and enough people jumped off with the Bulbasaur revelation) or to bandwagon myself, since I'm the other person with votes, and I'll pass on that, thanks.

mlaker continues to proclaim that I should be lynched next if PBuG turns out to be Rocket. He's not actually VOTING for PBuG mind you ... he just, again, is trying to redirect attention away from himself and to the next target.

mlaker: No Mafia would blatantly "back up" a Mafia buddy like this. Not a smart one, at least. You've played enough Mafia games to know that.

[mathcam]

What can I say? Mostly valid points all around. But...

I did think mlaker's post was an attempt at clearing PBuG. It seemed to me like mlaker was trying to help the town get off a bandwagon of someone he thought to be innocent. But, of course, he could have been doing as you suggest.

The only other options currently are to bandwagon PBuG (which we already did, and enough people jumped off with the Bulbasaur revelation)

I personally (and I think you agree) think the Bulbasaur revelation is worthless. I guess that's another psychological reason why I'm staying on the bandwagon...because other people got off for what I deem a stupid reason.

From my point of view we can either continue bandwagonning or go with someone we've already bandwagoned and has made a dubious (even if only slighly so) role claim.

Cam

[massive]

[enter Talitha mode]

And it should be noted that discer's post where he votes (quoted by mathcam above) also quoted my initial vote for mlaker where I put forth the initial opinion that mlaker is playing as he's played when Mafia.

[/Talitha mode ]

[mathcam]

Yeah, I did see that, but I didn't take it too seriously. He was voting because of your vibes? Plus, my argument looked stronger if I left it off.

Cam

[shadyforce]

Vote: mlaker

, because I should do something and don't know what else to go on.

Vote: mlaker

, reason stated above by discer.

Vote: mlaker

, same as Stewie and discer.

I laughed out load when I read that, nice one Cam .

Anyway, I mentain PBuG is our best lynch because I really hate people who claim "Generic Townies". It's the oldest claim in the book. Plus it has the added bonus of not killing a power role if he turns out to be pro-town. And I do still think he is the most suspicious, for the reasons given above by Mathcam and mlaker.

[massive]

Plus it has the added bonus of not killing a power role if he turns out to be pro-town.

Well, both mlaker and PBuG claim to have Bulbasaurs. Not spectacular in that it only prevents someone from catching another Pokemon. That leaves only their initial Pokemon as indicators of their relative strength to the town. Should we be forcing them to reveal their initial Pokemon? Name only perhaps, to start with, so we don't get into the "yeah me too" commotion again?

Other people who have not been talking: Please weigh in here.

[Someone]

I think we should go ahead and ask them to reveal their starting pokemon, since it seems to be the only one that may be able to confirm them.

[Fletcher]

I was for the mlaker thing but since so many people turned it down and I understand the case against PBuG I'll just

FoS: PBuG

because I don't want a quick vote by the mafia. I at least want to hear him plead his case one more time.

[TBuG]

People, did you ever notice that a lot of times people are telling the truth about being a townie, but are lynched because it's an easy claim?

Also, you may notice that I have 5 votes compared to mlaker's 4. I say that since the TR hasn't tried to finish me off, they already voted for me and bandwagoned me because they have a steady number, or they were smart and didn't try to cast the finishing vote because, assuming that I am telling the truth, they would be first on the scum to lynch list.

BTW, Bulbasaur was my original pokemon.

[massive]

I'm a generic townie. The first pokemon I chose was Bulbasaur, who prevents it's target from catching any pokemon.

Uh. Okay that settles it. I don't know about other trainers, but I didn't get a choice of who my original Pokemon was.

unvote mlaker
vote PBuG

mlaker: don't worry, I'll come back for you later.