Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[Netopalis]

Fair enough, I suppose. I guess it's easy to pull the bandwagoning argument now, but you are indeed right about the time crunch. I am satisfied with this explanation for now.

Unvote

Now, on to the next scummiest player: Malpa.

Vote: Malpascp

Can we get some content, please? Anything?

[crypto]

Actually, Malpascp now has a case going for him other than general lameness, though it's difficult to explain without explicitly dissecting ongoing games.

[foilist13]

So.... you want us to take your word for it?

[crypto]

Well, I was wondering if you'd have the industriousness to use my second to last quote to figure it out on your own. Evidently not the case.

Without going into detail, a meta of Malpascp shows he thinks OMGUS is a scum tell. But it's exactly what he did to me earlier in the game.

Therefore ...

[Netopalis]

Meh, both for the good of this game and the good of the site as a whole, I am adopting a new approach: Lynch all intentional lurkers.

[kikuchiyo]

Unvote, Vote: Malpascp

I'm fairly comfortable voting with Neto and Crypto. Voting blocks create pressure and tend to get things done.

Also:

My motivation above all was that we lynch someone, not that I had a case specific to Jester. There wasn't enough time to do anything else, and there was no way a wagon was going to form on another player that quickly.

The mal wagon had two votes when foilist switched. Mal was the second most viable wagon after Jester when measured by simple votes. foilist promised content and delivered none, but switched wagons even though he was suspicious of both Neto and Crypto but felt they could not be scum together. Why vote a lurker at all if you feel you have a fifty fifty shot at hitting scum between two other players? "Because we had to lynch

someone

" is simply not good enough, and the fact that he chose Jester over mal draws a pretty good line between the two.

Also:

Actually I take that back. unvote, vote:Malcasp

I'm going based on the expressions of suspicion I've read in the last couple pages. He seems to be a better lynch candidate than Mr Jester.

The most significant reason I am voting Jester is because he has been lurking, and we must lynch someone and at this point he is the only realistic candidate unless someone has a damn good case to put up.

At the time there was only one vote difference between the wagons. Deadline was close, but not imminent. Why abandon who you think is a "better" lynch for a lurker when the difference is only one vote?

I don't expect foilist to answer these questions as I am sure he feels that he already has. I just don't buy the answers.

[crypto]

the fact that he chose Jester over mal draws a pretty good line between the two

This is excellence.

I'm going based on the expressions of suspicion I've read in the last couple pages. He seems to be a better lynch candidate than Mr Jester.

The vague and potentially dodgy nature of this nags me.

[foilist13]

Well what did you expect? I told you guys that that weekend was hectic as shit for me and I didn't have time to make proper reads. With my vote on Malp it was what? 4-3 Jester? With my vote on Jester it was 5-2 and a near certain lynch. That was what needed to be done, so I did it.

[Netopalis]

I think that perhaps the best play is to lynch Malpa and see what he flips. If he flips scum, I think that Foilist deserves some serious scrutiny. Otherwise, I'm not sure how to read it.

[kikuchiyo]

Well what did you expect? I told you guys that that weekend was hectic as shit for me and I didn't have time to make proper reads. With my vote on Malp it was what? 4-3 Jester? With my vote on Jester it was 5-2 and a near certain lynch. That was what needed to be done, so I did it.

No. It was 3-2 Jester. 4-1 when you moved. Did you go to the same elementary school as Xvart?

I don't recall you saying the weekend was "hectic as shit". I remember you promising some content.

Do you still think Mal is scum?

[Faraday]

JereIC has requested replacement (computer issues) so I'll start looking for that now

foilist13 (1) [Raskol]
Gyro (3) [xvart, foilist13,Malpascp]
Netapolis (1) [walrus helmet]
Malpascp (3) [crypto, Netapolis, Kikuchiyo]

Not voting: (2) Gyro, JereIC, ]

With 10 alive it takesd 6 to lynch.

[crypto]

Moar Malpascp votes.

[Netopalis]

Agreed. We can take care of the rest after today, but Malpa absolutely must go.

[kikuchiyo]

I feel like the Three Musketeers.

Walrus: Would you mind switching to Mal? That would put him at L-2. At that point I think we could safely ask for a claim. I know people differ on this, but I think it is obvious he needs to be lynched before we proceed.

Gyro (3) [xvart, foilist13,Malpascp]

It would be quite hilarious if the entire scum team was on the Gyro wagon.

Anyways, if everyone is just going to lurk then let's at least agree to move the game along.

[walrus helmet]

Ah, sure I guess. Neto seems to have ignored my accusations anyway.

Unvote

Vote: Malpascp

[Raskol]

Hmmm. This is happening a little fast, don't you think?

I don't mind getting a claim, but I'd rather use our time today than lynch someone this quickly. If we mislynch again today we'll potentially be in LyLo tomorrow, so we have to be sure at the very least that we get as much info as possible.

[Gyro]

Vote: Malpascp

Best possible vote of the day from what I've seen so far. Intentional lurker and scummy play in general. He hasn't post much content throughout the game so I'm comfortable with this lynch. Although a bit nervous, but who isn't. If he isn't scum then I seriously need to look back and point fos at a lot of the guys who've gone under the radar for me so far. But yeh, hopefully it's just a win vote.

[kikuchiyo]

Hmmm. This is happening a little fast, don't you think?

I don't mind getting a claim, but

I'd rather use our time today than lynch someone this quickly.

If we mislynch again today we'll potentially be in LyLo tomorrow, so we have to be sure at the very least that we get as much info as possible.

If

you'd

rather use our time then use it. Also, if you want to use the time then why don't you mind getting the claim?


That said: Mal, please claim. You are going to be lynched today.

[Gyro]

agreed w/ Raskol.

One more to hammer. Allow him to claim..

[Raskol]

I plan to use it. I've been feeling a bit shit the past few days and haven't been online much, but I'm going to be more active again.

I don't mind the claim because it may give us a way to confirm his alignment one way or another. If we find out he has a confirmable role then we can keep him alive and use our lynch somewhere else today. If not, we can always lynch him (but not so soon, I think---unless no one really has anything to say at all).

[xvart]

Realized I've been on defense a lot more then trying to hunt scum. That's depressing..

I don't like statements like this. If you are actually trying to scum hunt more then do it, don't say it.

I don't like statements like this (Gyro's) either. You're basically admitting your fault to the group so they can't raise awareness of it later on. You're setting yourself up for a behavior that some might consider scummy and calling yourself out on it before anyone else can. Just because you notice it and bring it to everyone's attention does not make it less scummy.

With that being said...

Anyway, assuming there must be at least a couple of scum on last days vote so definitely going to focus more on who was on that wagon, pretty much everyone but whatever. I'll have to re-read a lot from last phase, *sigh* but that can happen tomorrow as I'm about to turn in for the night soonish and I'm lazy. :p

Thanks for all the valuable content of that wagon by posting nothing at all except that you are joining a bandwagon on a lurker.

----

As much as I hate to defend Malpsca...

Well, honestly, I don't know what else to do with him. I don't feel that he's the best lynch candidate for today...but I do feel that he's scummy and is a hindrance to our winning the game.

If he's not the best candidate then why are you voting for him? Who is the best candidate for today then?

I'm not convinced he's a good candidate for a lynch at all today. I do find him annoying, irresponsible, and having no clue about anything; but does that make him scummy? Not really. I just think he is a dunce. I'm not ready to lynch him. He may be behaving anti-town, but I do not see his behavior as detrimental to the town at this stage, since there is other scum and a lot of people to question and observe. There's other scum out there and I would be happy to hunt them in the meantime and hope that malp either gets his crap together or replaces out. I'm leaning (and hoping) on the latter.

I think that perhaps the best play is to lynch Malpa and see what he flips. If he flips scum, I think that Foilist deserves some serious scrutiny. Otherwise, I'm not sure how to read it.

I certainly am not ready to lynch someone, this early in the game, to see what alignment someone else might have.

Well, I was wondering if you'd have the industriousness to use my second to last quote to figure it out on your own. Evidently not the case.

Without going into detail, a meta of Malpascp shows he thinks OMGUS is a scum tell. But it's exactly what he did to me earlier in the game.

Therefore ...

I have a hard time believing that Malpascp actually knows what he is talking about, or is industrialist enough to have a meta at all. I also have a hard time buying the argument that "he thinks I'm scum because I OMGUSed someone, but since he OMGUSed me earlier, that must mean he's scum." Unless you both are scum, I find this circular logic unsubstantial. And, if you are using this logic as a basis for voting malpascp, then you must also be scum by the same logic. So if malpascp turns up scum, you must be scum too? Or should we lynch you first to determine if his logic was sound at the time of his post?

Walrus: Would you mind switching to Mal? That would put him at L-2. At that point I think we could safely ask for a claim. I know people differ on this, but I think it is obvious he needs to be lynched before we proceed.

If it so obvious then why do people still differ? And why are you asking Walrus and not individually asking the others not on this hasty bandwagon?

Moar Malpascp votes.

Agreed. We can take care of the rest after today, but Malpa absolutely must go.

I am more concerned with the speed at which you three want to lynch him all of the sudden. In an hour this day would have lasted 2 full days of our two week time period. That is less that 15% of our alloted time. Why is it so necessary that we lynch him so quickly. Time is a tool of the town, and the three of you don't want to utilize that tool.

At this point, I am more concerned about the three of you. What's the hurry? You don't want an obvious easy lynch to cut town numbers down before he can be replaced? Even if he does eventually turn up mafia, I wouldn't hold it against you guys to lead the charge against him since he is such an easy target, and then have that on your record.

Before anyone else places votes on malscpa, I would encourage a little more dialogue on these three guys: kikuchiyo, crypto, and Netopalis. We do have 85% of the day left, despite the urgency displayed.

----

Post 451:

There was no need for the vote, and the ultimate fail of not knowing the vote count in a thread where you "read it two dozen times," is deserving of the day 2 lynch in itself.

Post 480:

Why vote a lurker at all if you feel you have a fifty fifty shot at hitting scum between two other players?

Based on this logic, my question to you now is why are you changing your vote to someone who has no real case against him (other than he is lurking and behaves like he is not the sharpest tool in the shed) from someone you feel is a solid deserving day 2 lynch (me)? So you accost folist for not taking a 50-50 shot at hitting scum when you yourself are switching from a solid read to a lurking person with 12 posts to his credit? It sounds to me like you had a pretty strong argument on your hands, yet you switched to someone with 12 posts of

no content

. Don't you think your odds are a little worse? And if so, isn't that hypocritical?

Did you go to the same elementary school as Xvart?

If I actually was still in elementary school I might find your stupid personal jabs insulting. Otherwise, it just makes you look childish.

Mal also looks incredibly scummy early on.

Since he only has twelve posts, I went back to see if I did miss something "incredibly scummy early on." I couldn't find it, other than his OMGUS vote on Crypto; but as I already said, I don't find that scummy, just a terrible play. Here are his first posts, spanning one week and one day; and I realize that some of it may be out of context, but I think considering the person in question that that should not really be a problem.

/confirm

Vote:Darkstrike_11

You should think better about random voting...
RANDOM VOTE NOWWWWW

unvote Vote:Crypto

Please justify your vote Crypto

Crypto unvoted to vote for me
Why is this vote more random than the previous one?

I didnt complete any game yet, and Im playing in 7 games by now
Am I new?

Not here

Im not joining more games

This post had 5 words happy now?

So kikuchiyo... Care to enlighten me on mals incredibly scummy behavior early on? I recognize that it may be hard for me to comprehend advanced analytics of this mafia game, seeing as I apparently went to a defunct elementary school.

If we didn't have a second train on Gyro already going (and since I think I've made it obvious that he is scum) I would switch my vote to kikuchiyo in a second.

FoS: kikuchiyo, crypto, Netapolis

xvart.

[Gyro]

unvote

[xvart]

EBWOP:

FoS: kikuchiyo, crypto, Netapolis

I meant to mention that my FoS is heaviest in that order.

xvart.

[Gyro]

Raskol, JereIC, walrus helmet for right now are the most town based to me.


xvart, foilist13,Malpascp - - crypto, Netapolis, Kikuchiyo

I think that one of these two factions are scum without question. I mean there is definitely scum here but I think I'm confident enough to say that one of these two groups are scum.

crypto, Netapolis and Kikuchiyo, to me, seem to have been the key push for the Jester vote and the potential malpascp vote. In simpler terms just going for the easy vote out by voting players who seem to not be as active as others with a couple of odd reasoning tossed in the mix. It is surely a very slick style but I don't wanna be apart of a wagon like that, hence my unvote.

On the other hand there is the xvart, foilist13, Malpascp duo which all have seemed to have decided to see it best to vote me for my unorthodox/scummy posting style I guess. Since I've been a pretty big target of suspicion since day 1, assuming they are scum, pursing me could be seen as the easy way out - like the malpa vote for example.

I really have more of a lean on the crypto/Neta/Kikuchiyo faction at the moment over the others, but that could change at any time of course pending on what happens next.

I'm not comfortable with any of the current votes at the moment. I'm going to stay undecided until I can make up my mind on what's the right thing to do.

[crypto]

Re: Xvart.

No.

Voting for Darkstrike during RVS was scummy. Malpascp made it a mini-wagon, and it came

after

Darkstrike had explained that he disliked random votes.

Malpascp abused emotional appeals to excuse his lack of play and shake off a lynch. That is scummy.

Kill the newbie guy if you want.

Funny, because he implied strongly that he didn't even know he was a newbie in a previous post:

I didnt complete any game yet, and Im playing in 7 games by now
Am I new?

Fulfilling other players' view of you and using that to shake off suspicion is profoundly suspicious coming form an inexperienced player. An inexperienced townie

should

feel the need to prove himself and provide an inkling of pro-town content. Malpascp has not.

His piggybacking on arguments against Gyro today is also substantially scummy. What happened to me being his top suspect? He'd used me as a free pass not to scum-hunt day 1. Now he's attempting to bandwagon on Gyro.

I couldn't find it, other than his OMGUS vote on Crypto; but as I already said, I don't find that scummy, just a terrible play.

No. You can't argue that this isn't scummy. If you bothered to do the meta I alluded to, you'll see that in one ongoing Malpascp calls OMGUS a scum tell. He OMGUSed in this game. QED.

I don't like statements like this (Gyro's) either. You're basically admitting your fault to the group so they can't raise awareness of it later on. You're setting yourself up for a behavior that some might consider scummy and calling yourself out on it before anyone else can. Just because you notice it and bring it to everyone's attention does not make it less scummy.

If he didn't apologize, someone (you) would bitch at him for not scum hunting. Your proposition here is valid, but using it as a point against Gyro at this stage is bogus.

---

The FOS on Kiku is laughable. You don't FOS players simply because they don't spoon-feed you analysis.

The FOS on Neto is somewhat reasonable, but I'm biased. I do think his statement that "we can take care of the rest after today" is a warning sign.

The FOS on me ... well, like I said, meta Malpascp for the game I'm with him in.