Mini 869 - Frat Party Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Hoopla]

@Taranski - Not notes, analysis/suspicions. Also, I already stated how I felt about your 102. You were believing him without him even stating that he was a cop or some type of investigative role. Are you normally this gullible?

@Hoopla - If you know how I play, you know this is how I catch up. I make my analysis and my cases as I read through. Go ahead and ignore my posts if you must, but I will consider it anti-town as ignoring other players is an anti-town/scummy action.

No, Taranski is right. They're notes, not suspicions. Don't try and pass this off as analysis.

Filling the thread with walls of inane commentary is anti-town/scummy.

[Starbuck]

/sigh @ people who've never played with me

I will continue my analysis until I have caught up. My cases will be within my analysis's as they always are when I replace in. If you seriously can't handle this, then you really are taking this game too seriously.

If you need to meta me on this, all my games are in my Wiki and you will see I do the same thing every time when I replace into a game.

[Hoopla]

/sigh @ people who've never played with me

I will continue my analysis until I have caught up. My cases will be within my analysis's as they always are when I replace in. If you seriously can't handle this, then you really are taking this game too seriously.

If you need to meta me on this, all my games are in my Wiki and you will see I do the same thing every time when I replace into a game.

Zazie has terrible replacement habits, zwet/Empking are constantly bad, and Mastin's playstyle is ridiculously anti-town. Just because something is constant in your play, doesn't automatically make it a pro-town endeavour. Unless you can explain to me how your posts endeavour to catch scum, I suggest a radical overhaul of your playstyle, because I see nothing worthwhile there. Having said that, I look forward to your cases.

[Starbuck]

I'm offended that you've never played with me and are comparing me the likes of Zazie, Zwet and Mastin when you don't even know me. I am no where near that, and many of the people in this game can verify that for you.

You pretty much just said that you want me to jump in and be blind. To not post an analysis/suspicions of what I think and feel of how everyone else has behaved and acted thus far.

So how is the fact that I'm working on my analysis and posting what I think anti-town? When you are sitting here telling me that I shouldn't even post what I think.

[Starbuck]

Another point, you don't even know my playstyle, so how can you make an opinion on it when you know nothing of it, other than my few recent posts?

Who's the hypocrite now?

[Kise]

I think nothing of Dragon's alignment. An unbending habit of mine is to never call someone townie (nor neutral) unless I have reason to be certain. I do, however, have no problem making a scum list. With that said, Dragon is not on the scum list.

Now, I forget which one of you it is out of Hoop & Star, so could one of you tell me which one of you it is that doesn't have meta because you mimic the playstyles of others?

[Starbuck]

That would be Hoopla, I don't try to mimic anyone.

[Hoopla]

I'm offended that you've never played with me and are comparing me the likes of Zazie, Zwet and Mastin when you don't even know me. I am no where near that, and many of the people in this game can verify that for you.

You pretty much just said that you want me to jump in and be blind. To not post an analysis/suspicions of what I think and feel of how everyone else has behaved and acted thus far.

So how is the fact that I'm working on my analysis and posting what I think anti-town? When you are sitting here telling me that I shouldn't even post what I think.

I'm not telling you to not post your analysis/suspicions. I'm saying that what you're posting is not analysis/suspicions. Don't be offended, I am looking forward to hearing your insights!

[Hoopla]

I think nothing of Dragon's alignment. An unbending habit of mine is to never call someone townie (nor neutral) unless I have reason to be certain. I do, however, have no problem making a scum list. With that said, Dragon is not on the scum list.

So, you don't want to call someone townie or neutral? But you're prepared to say he's not scummy? That's such a cop out answer.

--

Flicking through some of your other games, I noticed you tended to be a bit more liberal with your votes/FoS's. Can you explain to me why you didn't place a vote on anyone (besides a joke vote on Joe Biden) until page 12?

[Hoopla]

Vote: nhammen

I don't know why, but I just got a private message from the mod telling me nhammen is scum.

I like this play. I've seen it done before a few times, and think outlandish stunts like this is a proactive way to leave the RVS behind. When you consider a couple of the players tiptoeing around the claim, and the timing of DeathrowKitty's withdrawl of the claim, it's a big town tell.

DeathrowKitty's explaination for this gambit feels genuine, in stark contrast to nhammen's post referencing the guilty investigation. It's the kind of response that feels very forced, and is the 'appropriate' way for scum disbelieving the claim, but mildly anxious nonetheless to deal with it. Play it off as a joke, and wedge it between a lot of other information in a post, to downplay it's importance.

Strong gut feeling is that DeathrowKitty is town, and lucked out with picking scum nhammen to gambit on.

This is also in conjunction with nhammen's one-vote day, where he rode a second-post BloodCovenent vote through to lynch. Seems like a REALLY safe place to drop a vote, and not have to deal with much suspicion. I have good feelings about this.

[Starbuck]

Day 1, page 6 to page 10

General Notes

Why does BC's use of the cat picture irk some of you so much?

Why can barely anyone understand joking or sarcasm?

Can everyone really get over the "OMFG HE WAS ON FACEBOOK AND NOT MS!!" arguments?

@Everyone - The question still hasn't been answered how self-voting is scummy.

Re the while BC joke thing: To be quite honest, I really didn't take any that was said seriously, because everyone was so over the top. Trying to build cases from this strikes me a bit unethical.

QFT

On groinhammer (who was replaced by saberwolf)

We then have the truely weird self vote which is a 101 scumtell!

Not always true!

On DeathRowKitty

I do like his case on BC in Post 131. He's one of the few people so far with his own case on the guy. DRK reads pro-town for me.

On canadianbovine who was replaced by OGML who was replaced by Hoopla

CB hits it perfectly right here:

so you think that we should lynch BC because of something that kitty said that wasnt true and therefore is irrelevant to the game?

honestly he had the correct mindset.

On nhammen

This is exactly what I saw too. And not only did all of this occur after you were messing around a lot in the RVS, but other players had made similar jokes in the RVS. I really don't get how anyone could have missed that it was a joke. It was obvious to me.

It was blatantly obvious on my read through. I don't understand how others took it so seriously either.


I also am not a fan of nham's saying that BC was pushing for a quicklynch. I really didn't see that.

On Dragonfly13

Post 145 - You made absolutely no sense in this post.

While I don't think you really meant 104 as rolefishing, it definitely came off as rolefishing. I can see where BC was coming from. You pretty much asked that DRK come out as the cop right there.

You then say that you realized that DRK wasn't joking, when everybody at this point (and from the get go) knew that he WAS joking. But even at this point, you are still believing that he is serious.

Where did BC say that he believed DRK? All he says in Post 93 is

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

I don't see how what he said here is any different from what anyone else said about him up to this point. Labeling him as scum with absolutely nothing to go on and listing off who could be his scum buddies.

When I voted I honestly didn't notice it would put him at L-2. Maybe an FoS would have been more appropriate. I'd definitely like to hear what he has to say.

Now with as many votes as BC had at this point, why wouldn't you count up the votes before voting in case you accidentally hammered?

Just wondering, do all 4 of you guys on BC still think he is scum? Personally, BC is still on my list of suspicions but not as high up as before.

Right now I don't see anyone scummier. That could possibly change as time goes on.

How so? At this point in the game, you were barely adding anything. It definitely seems like you are floating along trying not to get caught.

On Taranski

Post 126 - So you voted him because he questioned your motives? And rather than answer him, you voted for him. Real pro-town there, buddy.

What's really scummy about what he did [atleast to me]. Is his case against me. It's like he was desperately just trying to paint me in a bad light. There was no way I was rolefishing, and his accusing me of that is pretty much just bullshit[It's even worse when you consider that he was doing something similar but much worse to Nacho when he tells him to "Show [him] the confirm" and speculates about him being a day cop].

I also don't see how suggesting 2 alternate possibilities as to why DRK may do something like this both anti-town and scummy. He is just grasping for straws and purposely taking every thing I do and twisting and making it seem scummy.

Very weak defense of yourself here.

That post that BC referred to if read in a certain way does come off as rolefishing. The fact that you won't even admit the possibility of this bothers me.

BC then explains this more and I need to QFT it:

As for rolefishing, yes you were.
- you wanted him to "confirm," whether or not he actually had received a guilty result. If that were a true scenario, you would expect him to claim, or at least give something out that was about his role. And that information isn't necessarily needed to be discussed among the town. The only thing that should occur, is a bandwagon onto said guilty result, and a claim would follow. Maybe depending on the claim, we would lynch the player or not. If that guilty player flipped town, then we would have lynched DRK.
-By asking if he was serious, you would know that he was an information role. And as scum, you know that's bad.

Why should he not have asked Nacho to show him where he was confirmed scum? Nacho used the word 'confirmed' which in front of town or scum means irrefutable information that a person is such a faction.

I don't see where he was grasping for straws, care to show some examples?

I also don't think he was twisting your words because I can see what he saw about your actions.

My thought on the matter is that suggesting said roles just leads to more discussion and more places where other players have to chip in, which can be evaluated for information later and hence was a pro-town action.

Not on MS.

Post 172

BC explicitly tells nacho to show the confirmation. He then goes on to make a bad speculation as to what a day-cop would do if he got a guilty result on him. The speculation can be seen as attempted rolefishing because it would be fishing for tells in the response that Nacho would give the speculation. Especially since iirc, Nacho never even said anything about being a day-cop.

BC, what do you say to this? It seems like you are being hypocritical in your accusation of me rolefishing. It also seems like you are being blind if you can't see that I wasn't rolefishing at all.

How is the second quote in 162 in anyway rolefishing? Nacho blatantly called BC 'confirmed mafia' and BC asked him for proof. That's not rolefishing in the least imho. He wants to know where Nacho is getting his info from. Knowing his alignment now, you stating that as rolefishing is very, very scummy. I'm surprised no one else called you out on this when it happened.

I really don't like your constant defense of Nacho either. It definitely feels like buddying to me.


Post 177

hmmm, that makes sense. If he was scum he wouldn't really be rolefishing cuz hed know nacho was a daycop, if he was town then it doesn't matter if he's rolefishing or not.

hmm, i guess that makes sense. I guess if he was scum he could just be asking that to see if he could save his ass... but i'm convinced for now

First off, WIFOM!

Say what? How can you go from two posts ago saying he was rolefishing and flipping around to saying that he's not?

You then flip right back around to saying that he was rolefishing again with this:

I'm not really getting what you are saying here. Nacho and DRK said similar things. Nacho said, BC was confirmed scum, while DRK said he got a PM from the mod that Nham was scum. What I did was ask DRK if he was being serious or not because his claim seemed rather outlandish and it was during the RVS stage. What Blood did was ask nacho for confirmation on him being scum and then speculated to what a day cop would do. My whole point in this is that, BC's post can seems to be much more of a case of rolefishing then what I did.

Where did he speculate? Care to elaborate?

BC's post definitely doesn't look like rolefishing as much as yours does. You are definitely grasping for straws.

Why wasn't Taranski lynched Day 1? My god.

Also, how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?

I'm saying tha my original intention wasn't to get or hunt for reactions when I made that post. I was just openly speculation. What I am arguing is that I don't think that bringing them up were necessarily bad and may actually be pro-town because they generate discussion on a new topic and can be evaluated for information later. I'm not implying that I should be seen as pro-town because I brought up, but that the action in and of itself could be seen as protown.

Speculation at this point in the game is always scummy. It makes you look like you are scum feeling out for PRs, and at this point, it's definitely how I feel about you.

If he was scum, and Nacho said he was confirmed scum and wasn't joking, the only way that would make sense would be if Nacho was a daycop and investigated him.

And how would Nacho have been able to investigate him when this game didn't have a night start?

Your opinions and Nachomamma's opinions are coinciding far too convieniently for me.

Also, you place a vote on groinhammer without a reason. It makes it seem like you were purposely not on BC's lynch.

On Kise

So far not much from Kise, but from what I've seen I have no suspicion of him currently.

On Nachomamma8

Post 248 - WTF? How is the fact that BC used the same wording as Seraphim give any basis for a case? If this isn't strawmanning, I don't know what is.

hmmm, drk, can you confirm that you are being legit and not fuckin around cuz of RVS

dude, quit role fishing.

This post should not be answered, and it is scummy as hell.

This post screams scum to me; it is as if he's trying to stop people from questioning it by making the act of questioning itself scummy; on top of that, it's hypocritical for him to accuse someone of rolefishing when he just got done doing so.

Some serious buddying of Taranski here by going after BC for almost the exact same reasoning.



My top 3 suspicions are:

Taranski
Nachomamma
Dragonfly

[DeathRowKitty]

I was in Mini 807 with the rest of everyone else and CB's actions aren't a surprise.

I disagree. In that game, he made a few stupid mistakes (thinking someone was at L-2 when he actually wasn't, revoting after his unvote, misquoting himself, etc.). In this game, he didn't make any stupid mistakes. He just made questionable posts.

Also, does "the rest of everyone else" refer to me and the

SK

vig?


Reactions to anything else coming later. No time now.

[Nachomamma8]

DRK:

Obviously, you missed my point completely. I wanted to point out to BC that if he took your first post seriously and actually show that he did, he might want to avoid using the same reasoning as someone before him who was joking. Do you understand that much?

Wait, who used different reasoning on the BC case? One person, maybe two? If you're going to call agreeing with Taran buddying, then you have a few more people on that same wagon to look at.

[Taranski]

@Taranski - Not notes, analysis/suspicions. Also, I already stated how I felt about your 102. You were believing him without him even stating that he was a cop or some type of investigative role. Are you normally this gullible?

did you even read?

I didn't believe it at first until BC started shoving it down my throat. So i was checking with DRK to find out.

and I just saw your post on me. I'll respond to that in a bit

[Taranski]

On Taranski

Post 126 - So you voted him because he questioned your motives? And rather than answer him, you voted for him. Real pro-town there, buddy.

And? I thought his pushing for my lynch was not because he actually thought I was scummy. It felt like he was just looking for someone to paint suspicion on. I couldn't understand why anyone would find what I had said thus far even remotely scummy. [except for the lyncher/traitor thing]. And the way it seemed like he wanted me to quicklynch nhammen and called me scum when I said I thought DRK was kidding and that I wasn't going to quicklynch him.

What's really scummy about what he did [atleast to me]. Is his case against me. It's like he was desperately just trying to paint me in a bad light. There was no way I was rolefishing, and his accusing me of that is pretty much just bullshit[It's even worse when you consider that he was doing something similar but much worse to Nacho when he tells him to "Show [him] the confirm" and speculates about him being a day cop].

I also don't see how suggesting 2 alternate possibilities as to why DRK may do something like this both anti-town and scummy. He is just grasping for straws and purposely taking every thing I do and twisting and making it seem scummy.

Very weak defense of yourself here.

alright? maybe explain how its weak instead of just making dumb comments like this.

That post that BC referred to if read in a certain way does come off as rolefishing. The fact that you won't even admit the possibility of this bothers me.

BC then explains this more and I need to QFT it:

As for rolefishing, yes you were.
- you wanted him to "confirm," whether or not he actually had received a guilty result. If that were a true scenario, you would expect him to claim, or at least give something out that was about his role. And that information isn't necessarily needed to be discussed among the town. The only thing that should occur, is a bandwagon onto said guilty result, and a claim would follow. Maybe depending on the claim, we would lynch the player or not. If that guilty player flipped town, then we would have lynched DRK.
-By asking if he was serious, you would know that he was an information role. And as scum, you know that's bad.

Why should he not have asked Nacho to show him where he was confirmed scum? Nacho used the word 'confirmed' which in front of town or scum means irrefutable information that a person is such a faction.

I don't see where he was grasping for straws, care to show some examples?

I also don't think he was twisting your words because I can see what he saw about your actions.

I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone could read my post as rolefishing. I already explained that I wanted to know whether or not drk was joking or not. as it even explicitly states in the post where I am supposedly rolefishing.

That whole argument was dumb in the first place cuz scum would have no need to rolefish. If drk claimed he got a scum/town on someone, anyone would just automatically assume he was an investigative role.

Another reason why I found BC scummy. His trying to push that as rolefishing was just grasping for straws. Just taking everything I said and trying to make it seem like the scummiest shit ever.

My thought on the matter is that suggesting said roles just leads to more discussion and more places where other players have to chip in, which can be evaluated for information later and hence was a pro-town action.

Not on MS.

alright. I understand my mistake. I was just saying what came to mind without thinking about whether it would benefit the town to say these things.

Post 172

BC explicitly tells nacho to show the confirmation. He then goes on to make a bad speculation as to what a day-cop would do if he got a guilty result on him. The speculation can be seen as attempted rolefishing because it would be fishing for tells in the response that Nacho would give the speculation. Especially since iirc, Nacho never even said anything about being a day-cop.

BC, what do you say to this? It seems like you are being hypocritical in your accusation of me rolefishing. It also seems like you are being blind if you can't see that I wasn't rolefishing at all.

How is the second quote in 162 in anyway rolefishing? Nacho blatantly called BC 'confirmed mafia' and BC asked him for proof. That's not rolefishing in the least imho. He wants to know where Nacho is getting his info from. Knowing his alignment now, you stating that as rolefishing is very, very scummy. I'm surprised no one else called you out on this when it happened.

What? Are you serious right now? Like I can't comprehend why you would think that I'm scummy for bringing this up. I was pointing out how BC was
being hypocritical by doing something that can easily be seen as rolefishing but then biting my head off when he sees me make a post that only he seemed to think was rolefishing.

Are you implying that its different because nacho called BC 'confirmed mafia'? Like seriously? Cuz drk saying that the mod told him that someone was scum is completely different.

I really don't like your constant defense of Nacho either. It definitely feels like buddying to me.

Now this is just plain stupid. Link me to a post where I defended nacho. [I may have, but I don't remember.] Are you equating me bringing up the BC rolefishing thing to defending nacho? Was there even a point in time when nacho was under suspicion and needed defense?

Post 177

hmmm, that makes sense. If he was scum he wouldn't really be rolefishing cuz hed know nacho was a daycop, if he was town then it doesn't matter if he's rolefishing or not.

hmm, i guess that makes sense. I guess if he was scum he could just be asking that to see if he could save his ass... but i'm convinced for now

First off, WIFOM!

Say what? How can you go from two posts ago saying he was rolefishing and flipping around to saying that he's not?

um how is it wifom? I said if he was scum, there would be no need for him to rolefish because he would have already known if nacho was being legit or not.

Um.... if I remember correctly someone brought up something between the two posts which made me think of that. So I made that observation and decided that BC can't be held accountable/suspicious for roleishing.

You then flip right back around to saying that he was rolefishing again with this:

I'm not really getting what you are saying here. Nacho and DRK said similar things. Nacho said, BC was confirmed scum, while DRK said he got a PM from the mod that Nham was scum. What I did was ask DRK if he was being serious or not because his claim seemed rather outlandish and it was during the RVS stage. What Blood did was ask nacho for confirmation on him being scum and then speculated to what a day cop would do. My whole point in this is that, BC's post can seems to be much more of a case of rolefishing then what I did.

Where did he speculate? Care to elaborate?

BC's post definitely doesn't look like rolefishing as much as yours does. You are definitely grasping for straws.

My point was that BC was being hypocritical attacking me for fishing when he said something that seemed way more like rolefishing. I believe this post was me explaining this to someone.

Why wasn't Taranski lynched Day 1? My god.

you're really irking me. You're reminding me of why I was so suspicious of BC d1. Your case is basically his case. It was dumb and grasping back then and it is now.

Also, how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?

because if BC was scum, and nacho was being serious when said that BC was confirmed scum. [which bc thought at the time] Then bc,scum would know whether or not nacho was right about his confirmed scum statement and would just assume that he was some kind of investigative role that got results during the day time.

I'm saying tha my original intention wasn't to get or hunt for reactions when I made that post. I was just openly speculation. What I am arguing is that I don't think that bringing them up were necessarily bad and may actually be pro-town because they generate discussion on a new topic and can be evaluated for information later. I'm not implying that I should be seen as pro-town because I brought up, but that the action in and of itself could be seen as protown.

Speculation at this point in the game is always scummy. It makes you look like you are scum feeling out for PRs, and at this point, it's definitely how I feel about you.

really? really. I'm feeling out for PR's cuz I brought up the possibility of there being a lyncher/traitor? Really. care to tell me how those things are even connected?

If he was scum, and Nacho said he was confirmed scum and wasn't joking, the only way that would make sense would be if Nacho was a daycop and investigated him.

And how would Nacho have been able to investigate him when this game didn't have a night start?

yet again. can you read? I said DAYCOP.

Your opinions and Nachomamma's opinions are coinciding far too convieniently for me.

i'm sorry?

Also, you place a vote on groinhammer without a reason. It makes it seem like you were purposely not on BC's lynch.

someone brought up something against groin and I thought it was good so i switched to him. Also someone said something that made BC not seem as scummy so I decided that groin was a better candidate for a vote. Not too suspicious of saber right now though. He/she has seemed fairly town.

Honestly. If anything people should be suspicious of me going inactive after being active at the beginning of the day. Which I feel bad about.

[nhammen]

Wow! When I left there was no activity, and now more than a page in one day! Sweet!

you vote hop like crazy, and I don't like it. I personally think you're just looking for something that will stick.

FoS: Dragonfly13

I need to ISO you before I decide on turning that into a vote.

He kept his vote on blood for almost all day yesterday. How is this vote hopping? Although, the fact that I do not have a very clear memory of his actions does mean I need to look over him. It could be a sign that he has been avoiding attention. Or it could be a sign that my memory sucks... As I said, I need to look over this.

aww and i was coming back just in time. Could have avoided that prod

Are you deliberately trying to post just enough to avoid prods? We need more activity than that.

Vote: nhammen

May I ask why?

You pretty much just said that you want me to jump in and be blind. To not post an analysis/suspicions of what I think and feel of how everyone else has behaved and acted thus far.

So how is the fact that I'm working on my analysis and posting what I think anti-town? When you are sitting here telling me that I shouldn't even post what I think.

That is not what she is saying at all. She is saying that you aren't posting what you think. You are just posting a recap what has happened in the game. Or at least, that is what her accusation is, as I understand it.

in stark contrast to nhammen's post referencing the guilty investigation. It's the kind of response that feels very forced, and is the 'appropriate' way for scum disbelieving the claim, but mildly anxious nonetheless to deal with it. Play it off as a joke, and wedge it between a lot of other information in a post, to downplay it's importance.

Hmmm... so, this explains your vote at least. I am curious though, as to what response you would have deemed acceptable here. Because I would think that any response to drk's gambit could be perceived as scummy. Seems like you are asking me if I've stopped beating my wife yet.

BTW, if you read through this game, this is the way most of my posts look.

This is also in conjunction with nhammen's one-vote day, where he rode a second-post BloodCovenent vote through to lynch. Seems like a REALLY safe place to drop a vote, and not have to deal with much suspicion. I have good feelings about this.

I thought he was scummy. That is all. And it seems that a large portion of the town agreed with this.

[Starbuck]

@Taranski - Not notes, analysis/suspicions. Also, I already stated how I felt about your 102. You were believing him without him even stating that he was a cop or some type of investigative role. Are you normally this gullible?

did you even read?

I didn't believe it at first until BC started shoving it down my throat. So i was checking with DRK to find out.

and I just saw your post on me. I'll respond to that in a bit

Why, if you were so suspicious of BC, would it take for him to be shoving it down your throat for you to believe it?

What's really scummy about what he did [atleast to me]. Is his case against me. It's like he was desperately just trying to paint me in a bad light. There was no way I was rolefishing, and his accusing me of that is pretty much just bullshit[It's even worse when you consider that he was doing something similar but much worse to Nacho when he tells him to "Show [him] the confirm" and speculates about him being a day cop].

I also don't see how suggesting 2 alternate possibilities as to why DRK may do something like this both anti-town and scummy. He is just grasping for straws and purposely taking every thing I do and twisting and making it seem scummy.

Very weak defense of yourself here.

alright? maybe explain how its weak instead of just making dumb comments like this.

First off, insults towards someone are against the rules of this site, you need to back off that. Please take a gander at Forum Rules and Guidelines by mith.

Second, if you didn't cut off my statement in the middle you would see that I DID explain how it was weak, but you cut off my statement in a way to make yourself look better. This is called misrepresentation and it IS a scumtell.

I'm still dumbfounded as to how anyone could read my post as rolefishing. I already explained that I wanted to know whether or not drk was joking or not. as it even explicitly states in the post where I am supposedly rolefishing.

That whole argument was dumb in the first place cuz scum would have no need to rolefish. If drk claimed he got a scum/town on someone, anyone would just automatically assume he was an investigative role.

Another reason why I found BC scummy. His trying to push that as rolefishing was just grasping for straws. Just taking everything I said and trying to make it seem like the scummiest shit ever.

I don't get how you don't see that what you did was rolefishing. Scum have every reason in the world to rolefish, how come you don't understand this? Scum only know who's NOT town. They don't know who's a PR or not. You were asking DRK if he was joking or not which is the equivalent to asking him if he was a PR which = rolefishing.

IT IS STRAWMANNING. You made yourself look scummy, not anyone else.

What? Are you serious right now? Like I can't comprehend why you would think that I'm scummy for bringing this up. I was pointing out how BC was
being hypocritical by doing something that can easily be seen as rolefishing but then biting my head off when he sees me make a post that only he seemed to think was rolefishing.

Are you implying that its different because nacho called BC 'confirmed mafia'? Like seriously? Cuz drk saying that the mod told him that someone was scum is completely different.

Using the word 'confirmed' in any way to make a case on someone on this site is a big deal. Nacho said straight up that BC was CONFIRMED MAFIA, which means that there is irrefutable evidence that he is. Joking or not, confirmed is not a word that should be used unless it's true.

um how is it wifom? I said if he was scum, there would be no need for him to rolefish because he would have already known if nacho was being legit or not.

Um.... if I remember correctly someone brought up something between the two posts which made me think of that. So I made that observation and decided that BC can't be held accountable/suspicious for roleishing.

It's WIFOM because the scum DO NOT KNOW WHO THE PRs ARE. How would he absolutely know that Nacho was a Daycop? Unless scum have an investigative role of their own, they have no way to know whether he was being legit or not.

because if BC was scum, and nacho was being serious when said that BC was confirmed scum. [which bc thought at the time] Then bc,scum would know whether or not nacho was right about his confirmed scum statement and would just assume that he was some kind of investigative role that got results during the day time.

How does this answer to "how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?" make any sense whatsoever?

BC was not scum (his flip proved that). So how did he THINK that Nacho was serious when BC's role PM stated that he was town? BC stated from the get go that he wasn't scum, not that anyone believed him and I definitely feel scum had something to do with that. So this whole answer that you just made holds ABSOLUTELY no ground.

You still haven't answered how the scum would know that he was a Day Cop. You just completely skirted around the question.

someone brought up something against groin and I thought it was good so i switched to him. Also someone said something that made BC not seem as scummy so I decided that groin was a better candidate for a vote. Not too suspicious of saber right now though. He/she has seemed fairly town.

So you switched to groin because someone else made a good case on him and you didn't make one of your own? You were all over BC Day 1, your unexpected switch is very scummy.



I have another 5-6 pages to analyze on and I have watch (military stuff) all day today, so it will be coming tonight if not tomorrow morning my time.

But right now, Taranski is sticking out to me like a freaking cow in a haystack. With all of his contradictions and skirting around answers, I really don't like it.

Vote: Taranski

[Hoopla]

This is also in conjunction with nhammen's one-vote day, where he rode a second-post BloodCovenent vote through to lynch. Seems like a REALLY safe place to drop a vote, and not have to deal with much suspicion. I have good feelings about this.

I thought he was scummy. That is all. And it seems that a large portion of the town agreed with this.

My strong guess is that there is two scum on the wagon - I don't think scum would be so brazen to all jump on BloodCovenent by the end of the day. One of the best tells to go by is scum's collective conciousness - because scum play as a team, they are conciously trying to muddle links between them. All voting one player in a short amount of time is an obvious link they want to avoid.

I strongly believe there were two scum on BC, because he was scummy/anti-town enough for scum to not come under any pressure for their votes. This is one subtle difference between alignments, somewhere you can usually spot mistakes. Because scum are fabricating cases, they're more inclined to make votes they won't get called on, or challenged for.

So lets look at the Day 1 lynch:

DeathRowKitty (2): Seraphim,

BloodCovenent

BloodCovenent

(7): nhammen, DeathRowKitty, Dragonfly13, saberwolf, Nachomamma8, Kise,

fhqwgads

groinhammer (1): Taranski

Not Voting (2): OhGodMyLife, Starbuck

Most suspect on the BC lynch is Kise and nhammen. Both featured day 1 games with just ONE vote overall - both on BC. It's certainly possible both aren't scum, but from this point alone, I'd say it's quite likely one is. I want to do more analysis of Dragonfly, saberwolf and nachomamma - but my gut says out of these three it's Dragonfly.

Now, who is likeliest to be scum OFF the BC wagon. I believe Starbuck is town, so it's a toss-up between Seraphim and Taranski. An interesting point that incriminates Seraphim is this count;

Vote Count #10:

DeathRowKitty (4):

canadianbovine

, Seraphim,

BloodCovenent, fhqwhgads

BloodCovenent (6): nhammen, DeathRowKitty, Dragonfly13, saberwolf, Nachomamma8, Kise
Seraphim (1): MightyFireball
groinhammer (1): Taranski

Not Voting (0)

For the sake of this point, I'm assuming this from my own confirmed town perspective, and fail to see how 4 townies could possibly be on DeathRowKitty. That was such a bad wagon, it's not funny.

[Hoopla]

Starbuck:

Why did it take you 16 days to state your suspicions?

Saberwolf:

What do you think about Kise and nhammen's one-vote day? Are they likelier to have different alignments? Which is scummier? Could you see them both as town?

[Starbuck]

@Hoopla - Unfortunately with me being in the military, I had a lot of things go on the past few weeks, as well as things going on back home in Connecticut (my Great Grandmother will be passing some time soon and I've been on the phone with almost all my family there).

Where I live doesn't have the sturdiest of power and my power will brown out for no reason at least 3 or 4 times a day. I was lucky enough (note: sarcasm) to where a lot of those times were when I was typing up my analysis is notepad and it wiped everything.

[saberwolf]

Starbuck:

Why did it take you 16 days to state your suspicions?

Saberwolf:

What do you think about Kise and nhammen's one-vote day? Are they likelier to have different alignments? Which is scummier? Could you see them both as town?

hurray! I feel so included.

I'll get to you in a second...just gonna finish up this marketing project.

[Dragonfly13]

On Dragonfly13

Post 96 - You actually believe that the mod would randomly send someone a PM stating that someone else is scum? Are you for real? If it was a legitimate, "Hey guys, I'm the cop and I have a guilty on so&so", then sure. But that?

Did you even read the game? If you had, you would know that I didn't believe DRK's claim. Rather, I felt it sounded like a joke he was trying to play off as serious. Thanks for putting words in my mouth (or beliefs in my head, as it were). There's a lot of crap in that post that I don't agree with, and seeing as how most of it is commentary rather than analysis, consider my vote on you merited. Also,

FoS: Starbuck

just so I'm sure I got my point across. I don't like that you've taken some obvious RVS joke posts super-seriously and trying to build cases off of them. The only reason why I'm not pointing out the other flaws in your catchup post is that I don't like to defend other people; I'm sure they're capable of doing it themselves. Thanks for finally putting some effort into this game, but really, we could use a little more from you.

Dragonfly: What do you think of Kise's alignment?

To answer your question, I did an ISO read on Kise, because he was flying under my radar, probably due to his lack of notably lengthy posts and small absence on D1. After My ISO read, I'm getting a gut of slightly scummy. I don't have any specific reasons, that's just how I feel about his play thus far. I will probably do some more ISO reads soon to see if Starbuck is the best candidate for a lynch at this point. Hell, I haven't even looked for links from D1 between BC/fhq and others yet. The only reason why my vote's staying on Starbuck for the time being is because of her ridiculous attempt at a catch-up.

Starbuck: Your recent analysis post contains none. It's garbage wishy-washy fluff. Tell me who your suspects are rather than waffling, because I don't want to waste my time reading more posts like that.

Reposting this to further my own point about what I think of Starbuck's first post. I would appreciate the fact that you're asking so many questions, Starbuck, but some of the questions you're asking are based on half-assed ideas of what happened before you read the game.

Why can barely anyone understand joking or sarcasm?

Why can't you understand joke posts in the RVS?

Can everyone really get over the "OMFG HE WAS ON FACEBOOK AND NOT MS!!" arguments?

I agree, judging someone's alignment based on whether they post when they are online is fallacious in my eyes.

@Everyone - The question still hasn't been answered how self-voting is scummy.

I feel self-voting is a null tell. I myself once self voted when I was cop, before I was forced to claim. But that was my first game of mafia. I haven't seen many self-votes since, but because some people seem to assume it is a scum tell, I believe my own experience proves it is a null tell. Therefore, self-voting isn't scummy.

Bold italics in the following quote are my response.

On Dragonfly13

Post 145 - You made absolutely no sense in this post.

Care to elaborate? What don't you understand about it?

While I don't think you really meant 104 as rolefishing, it definitely came off as rolefishing. I can see where BC was coming from. You pretty much asked that DRK come out as the cop right there.

Um... I didn't even

make

post 104.

You're

the one who isn't making any sense here.

You then say that you realized that DRK wasn't joking, when everybody at this point (and from the get go) knew that he WAS joking. But even at this point, you are still believing that he is serious.

Read (the top of) this post and gain a better understanding of my thought process at the time.

Where did BC say that he believed DRK? All he says in Post 93 is

Very simple solution here. We lynch Nham, and if he flips town, then DRK dies. If he flips scum, then DRK is either town, or scum that is willing to lose his partner in a gambit.

We need more votes on Nham. Anyone that does not vote him will be labeled his scumbuddy.

I don't see how what he said here is any different from what anyone else said about him

--who?

up to this point. Labeling him as scum with absolutely nothing to go on and listing off who could be his scum buddies.

Where

didn't

he say he believed DRK? I think it's painfully obvious he

did

believe DRK's claim. Had he not, he wouldn't have been trying to get nhammen lynched.

When I voted I honestly didn't notice it would put him at L-2. Maybe an FoS would have been more appropriate. I'd definitely like to hear what he has to say.

Now with as many votes as BC had at this point, why wouldn't you count up the votes before voting in case you accidentally hammered?

It was an honest mistake. I'm an engineer, so math comes easy to me, and I do a lot of it in my head. I didn't feel BC was close enough to being hammered for me to bother counting them all up or waiting for a votecount to make my point. I shouldn't have placed him at L-2 so early in the discussion, but I was certain my vote would not be the hammer, so I went with it over an FoS. As I said before, an FoS might have been more appropriate.

Just wondering, do all 4 of you guys on BC still think he is scum? Personally, BC is still on my list of suspicions but not as high up as before.

Right now I don't see anyone scummier. That could possibly change as time goes on.

How so? At this point in the game, you were barely adding anything. It definitely seems like you are floating along trying not to get caught.

...how so? Well, when someone like you pops in with a bunch of nonsense about concrete things people have said, then yes, I can find other people scummier. I apologize for not adding much to the conversation. However, this type of behavior might remind you of November 2-18, when you didn't add anything at all.

I've skipped a lot of things here, so I'm sorry I couldn't get to all of it in time. I'll tackle it tomorrow.

[Taranski]

Why, if you were so suspicious of BC, would it take for him to be shoving it down your throat for you to believe it?

yet again i ponder about whether yu actually read the thread. This was early in the day before I was suspicious of him. And it seemed like a joke which is why I didn't believe it at first. but wtf? why are you asking this question? Before you were saying i was gullible for not believing it and now you are asking why did it take BC shoving it down my throat to believe it?

First off, insults towards someone are against the rules of this site, you need to back off that. Please take a gander at Forum Rules and Guidelines by mith.

Second, if you didn't cut off my statement in the middle you would see that I DID explain how it was weak, but you cut off my statement in a way to make yourself look better. This is called misrepresentation and it IS a scumtell.

Saying that someone is making dumb comments is not an insult.
I just reread what you said. Nowhere did you explain why it was weak. Yet another dumb comment.

I don't get how you don't see that what you did was rolefishing. Scum have every reason in the world to rolefish, how come you don't understand this? Scum only know who's NOT town. They don't know who's a PR or not. You were asking DRK if he was joking or not which is the equivalent to asking him if he was a PR which = rolefishing.

I honestly don't know what to say to you about this. I fail to believe you actually think what you are saying. Why is asking if DRK was joking or not a problem. It in no way would have outed whether he was a PR at all beyond what he already stated. What was i supposed to do? Take his word for it when it seemed like a joke? Brush it off as a joke? What if he was being serious. jeez

He claimed he had an investigation. this = an investigative role + during the day = daycop. It doesn't take a genius for someone to come to this conclusion. Scum would have, and would have had no need to want to fish his role out of him when he basically already claimed it.

IT IS STRAWMANNING. You made yourself look scummy, not anyone else.

right.

Using the word 'confirmed' in any way to make a case on someone on this site is a big deal. Nacho said straight up that BC was CONFIRMED MAFIA, which means that there is irrefutable evidence that he is. Joking or not, confirmed is not a word that should be used unless it's true.

ok? dunno what you are getting at here. My point about him rolefishing still stands.

It's WIFOM because the scum DO NOT KNOW WHO THE PRs ARE. How would he absolutely know that Nacho was a Daycop? Unless scum have an investigative role of their own, they have no way to know whether he was being legit or not.

You are telling me, that if a cop claimed guilty on one of your scumpartners. You wouldn't automatically assume that he is what he says he is?

How does this answer to "how would scum know that Nacho was a Day Cop?" make any sense whatsoever?

I already explained this above.

BC was not scum (his flip proved that). So how did he THINK that Nacho was serious when BC's role PM stated that he was town? BC stated from the get go that he wasn't scum, not that anyone believed him and I definitely feel scum had something to do with that. So this whole answer that you just made holds ABSOLUTELY no ground.

Well duh. (wtf.) You obviously have trouble understanding the points that I am making here. I was presenting to scenarios based on him being scum or town. If he was scum he'd have no reason to rolefish, if he was town it wouldn't matter. This is what I was thinking at the time.

You still haven't answered how the scum would know that he was a Day Cop. You just completely skirted around the question.

above

So you switched to groin because someone else made a good case on him and you didn't make one of your own? You were all over BC Day 1, your unexpected switch is very scummy.

Oh cuz its soooo incredibly scummy to agree with a case someone made. I made the switch pretty early in the day. I was all over BC only because I was responding to the bullshit case he brought up.

But right now, Taranski is sticking out to me like a freaking cow in a haystack. With all of his contradictions and skirting around answers, I really don't like it.

Vote: Taranski

You have yet to point out any contradictions. Nor have I skirted around any questions that the answer wasn't already obvious to. Pretty annoyed that I have to defend myself against the same shit d2 that I had to in d1.

Hoopla made a good post. I was very willing to hammer BC at the end of d1. I dunno what that does to your theory. I'm interested in why you think starbuck is town.

[Taranski]

also, Starbuck, I'm sure you ignored some questions I brought up/statements I made. But I am too lazy to reread my post and find them.

[saberwolf]

ok, so....

Kise: ISOing him, he appears active enough, but it appears more liek a lurking active, posting fluff and not giving it the usual kiseness I see him do when he's town. I find when he's scum his posts tend to lack a bit, so I can see Kise being scum based off of that. However, I don't feel that's enough information to lynch him over. As for the one vote on BC, it's really hard to say. There are so many explanations you could give it that you have no problem making it appear scummy, it's just an issue of accuracy.

Nhammen: Exact same case as Kise really. HE stands out even more though, cause when I played with him as town, he really shone as our leading scumhunter, and was the first one NKed. I'm not seeing that from him here, so same deal.

I have only played with scum-kise out of the two. Kise's manner doesn't seem to change much, but I notice he posts less and goes on quiet streaks a lot. That's all I have to offer there.

I could see both as town, if I had to pick a scummier I'd maybe lean Kise, it's really hard to say. I'd play it more to not who I think is scum, but more who of the two would I rather keep around in case they are both town. Honestly as of right now I don't see a solid case on either one of them yet, so it's a tough call.

They're much more likely to be both town than both scum though, that's just simple probability mathematics.