Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[Iecerint]

I thought that might be the case, @ elvis.

I agree with ML's post. This might end up like a genocide, but there's hope. I think you should shoot SC. If he's town, at least you didn't kill a townie. If he's lying scum, a winnar is you. This is moderated a little based upon whether Seol is scum and whether the details of your role make other things worth it, but we don't necessarily need to know about that.

[StrangerCoug]

As I said, I thought the game was unbalanced. The Mafia could have lost out of sheer bad luck, but more likely to happen anyway—and I fear it's something I've allowed—the town can lose a lot of people if a lot of kills happen.

Perhaps a better argument would have been it being swingy, but looking at my role, this

MIGHT

make some sense. I realized this between the vig/no vig argument and now, but didn't want to give myself away as bulletproof. I didn't expect three killing roles regardless, however (four if you count the bomb).

That my name makes sense with my role is also why I questioned Netopalis's claim.

[elvis_knits]

I thought that might be the case, @ elvis.

I thought you knew! Because you seemed to believe there was a vig from the beginning, and be picking up on me.

You also argued with SC a little about there being a vig, which I hoped people might think YOU were the vig, and thus not make me so obvious. So I thought you were helping me out, trying to throw people off. One of the reasons I thought you were town, btw.

I agree with ML's post. This might end up like a genocide, but there's hope. I think you should shoot SC. If he's town, at least you didn't kill a townie. If he's lying scum, a winnar is you. This is moderated a little based upon whether Seol is scum and whether the details of your role make other things worth it, but we don't necessarily need to know about that.

The thing about my role is that if my action is not completed I will lose it. So if I target a bulletproof, or an NK immune SK or a NK immune GF, I will turn vanilla. Which is not horrible, but I would like to kill scum.

[MacavityLock]

OK, ran the numbers only (not considering pointing at who elvis should vig). In all cases, worst case scenario means that all scum kills hit town.
If Seol is SK: We will likely be left in either a 4/2 or a 5/1 situation before vig. Due to odd/even arguments, I think vigging someone is worthwhile, your choice as to who.
If Seol is maf: There may still be 2 killing factions out there, or they may not. Worst case scenario leads to either 3/1/1 (if originally 3 maf) or 5/1 (if originally 2 maf) before vig. Unsure whether vigging someone other than SC is worthwhile.
If Seol is town: Worst case scenario puts us either in 2/2/1 or 3/1/1 before vig. 2/2/1 is already a loss and 3/1/1 is too risky. Do not vig someone other than SC.

My conclusion:
Seol-SK: Vig whoever you want.
Seol-maf: Not sure, but at the very least Vig SC.
Seol-town: Vig SC.

[SpyreX]

And more and more the pieces unravel.

I'll be that guy: shoot Percy. Period.

[SpyreX]

EBWOP: Or you could shoot me if you really need to (if Seol-town) to eliminate that whole vein tomorrow. I'm mos def not BP.

[elvis_knits]

I'm not shooting you, Spyrex. If you're scum, good job.

[MacavityLock]

The thing about my role is that if my action is not completed I will lose it. So if I target a bulletproof, or an NK immune SK or a NK immune GF, I will turn vanilla. Which is not horrible, but I would like to kill scum.

And simul-post with this crap. Dammit, elvis, why you gots to be throwing this wrench in my awesome plan?

[Iecerint]

I wasn't sure enough to take it to that level; that was an accident. But I thought the double kill flavor was pretty unambiguous; ignoring it looks like willful ignorance to me.

I will be very cross with SXSK if he is nonmafia and SC isn't. <_<

[elvis_knits]

The thing about my role is that if my action is not completed I will lose it. So if I target a bulletproof, or an NK immune SK or a NK immune GF, I will turn vanilla. Which is not horrible, but I would like to kill scum.

And simul-post with this crap. Dammit, elvis, why you gots to be throwing this wrench in my awesome plan?

lol

Sorry.

[SpyreX]

Yea, I think I'm swinging my support behind Percy (scum) or Konowa (other).

I actually have that warm feeling in my belly about all the talkers at the moment.

[elvis_knits]

Yea, I think I'm swinging my support behind Percy (scum) or Konowa (other).

I actually have that warm feeling in my belly about all the talkers at the moment.

I have warm feeling about you, Iecerint and ML. Still not sure about SC.

[elvis_knits]

Well, if Seol is town, probably all of SC, Percy and Konowa are scum.

If Seol is scum, only two of them are.

[SpyreX]

I think we have this worked out. I'm anxious for the flip now.

[MacavityLock]

Honestly, I think we have to assume that elvis will be dead soon, and I'd rather have her fully utilized than avoid the risk of her turning vanilla. I stand by my 778.

[elvis_knits]

I will probably do a little reading after the flip but I anticipate vigging SC or Percy. Partially may have to do with what Seol flips.

[DraketheFake]

Final Vote Count of Day 2

Seol:

5 (StrangerCoug, Iecerint, elvis_knits, SpyreX)

SpyreX:

2 (Percy, Seol)

StrangerCoug:

2 (Konowa, MacavityLock)

Not Voting:

None

Nouns Seol villain. Seol mule, mute. Restriction mod scenes evil.

Seol corpse.

Seol

who was a

Sacagawea Golden Dollar,

Town Doctor

, Dis-Nouned Day 2

.

It is now

Night

. People with night actions must submit them by 12:00 PM Noon, December 5th[/b]. However:

Day 3

will not begin until I find a replacement for

Konowa

.

[DraketheFake]

Budja

replaces

Konowa

.

It is still

Night

.

[DraketheFake]

Daylight. Unease. Town square.

SpyreX

? Oh, SpyreX.

Head dent. Fire

.

6

Nouns.

SpyreX

, who was

Benjamin Button,

Vanilla Townie*

, bludgeoned and on fire Night 2

.

[elvis_knits]

First of all, why does a doctor not claim?

Second, why did all the scum target spyrex? It was supposed to be me.

Third, I targetted StrangerCoug last night. Obviously, my kill did not go through. I do not know the exact cause for my kill failing. I am trying to sort out what everything means. I'll lay it out for you because it's sort of complicated.

My role is Mega Man. My role is Vig. But there is a twist. If my kill/action is unsuccessful, I lose all abilities. If my kill/action is successful, I gain all abilities of the player I targetted, and they replace my current action(s). So, N1, when I targetted boxman/hoopla, I gained both boxman/hoopla's abilities (kill and redirect). I could only use one of these actions, however. I chose to kill StrangerCoug.

I was under the impression that the redirect would be lost since I used my kill. And the kill would be replaced with any abilities StrangerCoug had. But my kill failed. The flavor sounds like I might have been blocked. And I was told that my kill ability is gone but that I still retain the redirect ability for use tonight.

I am unsure whether the flavor indicates that I was blocked or that I failed because SC is NK immune. And even if he is NK immune, I don't think that necessarily indicates him being town (and BP, like he said). He could just as easily be SK or GF.

All in all, I do not buy his crappy hammer on Seol when Seol had promised to give replies (even though he refused to claim.)

I do not buy that SC failed to read the post before his hammer, where I laid out the potential problem with the night actions, and the town's possibility of being decimated.

I do not buy all of SC's vig fishing, and claims that the game was unbalanced if he knew he was a BP townie.

I do not buy that he didn't think to try to draw nightkills if he was a BP townie.

I think SC should die today.

However, it's probably lylo, and I don't think anyone should be voting yet.

We need to do a mass claim, and we need to try to figure out who ALL the scum are.

We need to lynch scum today and then we need to figure out who the other scums are so that I can redirect one scum to kill the other one. I think we can still win if we do that, right?

[Iecerint]

There is pretty much a 100% chance that ML, elvis, and I are town. If that is not true, I will cry a little on the inside.

Assuming SK + 2 scum, that means that all of the other players (Percy, SC, and Budja/Konowa) are non-town.

So I don't think a mass claim is necessary. We should decide whether we want to kill the SK or scum, and then look for connections between those players accordingly to guess which is SK. The scum can share their opinions about this, too, if they'd like.

[Iecerint]

I will be very cross with SXSK if he is nonmafia and SC isn't. <_<

lol

[MacavityLock]

Iec, you shouldn't be clearing yourself, and you shouldn't be clearing me. I'm glad you think I'm town, but we need to be far more careful than that today.

We absolutely need to treat this as LYLO. If we started with 3 maf, 1 SK, then we're 3/2/1 right now. If we lynch the SK, we need elvis's redirect to be perfect, otherwise it means town loses. Awkward. If we lynch maf, we've got potential for cross-kills, hopefully boosted by elvis's redirect.

If however, we started with 2 maf, 1 SK, then we're 4/1/1. Maf and SK lynching are equivalent in this circumstance. A mislynch does not guarantee a town loss either, but it would rely on cross-kills to get to a potential town win.

So, I guess we've got to go after maf. And I think a mass-claim is probably a good way to go. Popcorn, elvis chooses next to claim?

----

Elvis, I really want you to dig in to your role PM and ask mod whatever questions you need to to figure out why you still have a redirect ability. Based on the way you describe it, it shouldn't matter how your kill was stopped; the way I'm reading it, both a block and a protect (either doc or bulletproof) would cause you to go vanilla. Figure it out, because it doesn't make sense.

----

I also think Elvis is right in that we should look into why SpyreX was double-killed. Here's a hypothesis:
Kill 1) SC knows that he's bulletproof, but either no one else does (SK), or his maf-buddy does. Therefore, his scum faction knows that elvis will become vanilla. Given that SpyreX is "evolving townie", he's more dangerous than vanilla-elvis. SC's faction kills SpyreX.
Kill 2) Other scum faction has a roleblocking ability, and they plan to block Elvis last night. They know that she will become vanilla, and same SpyreX-kill reasons apply.

Conclusion: As a direct result of the above, it is likely that SC is some sort of scum, and that the scum faction that doesn't include him has a roleblocker. I think the most likely case is that SC is NK-immune SK, and that there is a maf faction with two players remaining, one who killed SpyreX, and one who roleblocked elvis.

----

We've got quite a bit of work to do.

Do not vote right now!

FoS or whatever if you have to. As much as I think SC is scum, we may not want to lynch him today. Dammit all.

[Iecerint]

I could be persuaded to lynch any of those three. Target plan AFAIK:

Lynch scum
Redirect SK -> scum
Lynch SK

The potential RBer could mess things up.

[elvis_knits]

I agree with ML and don't think we should be confirming people. End of yesterday I did pretty much think Iecerint and ML were town, but I am not willing to hang the game on that. I want to go through everything and question everything.

Regarding my night actions.

I have had some pming with him throughout the game trying to figure out what I can and cannot do and repercussions of that.

At one point, he specifically told me that if I targetted someone for a kill, and was successful, and gained their actions, they would replace all actions that I previously held, whether I had used them or not. In essence, if my kill on SC had gone through, I would gain whatever he had, but lose the kill and the redirect, even though I had never used the redirect.

I took this to mean that if my night actions were not successful that I would lose all actions whether I had used them or not.

Which seems like it is not the case.

It seems that whatever action I use (if it gets blocked or is unsuccesful for some reason) gets lost, but I still retain the unused ability because I have not replaced my actions due to unseccessful attempt (and it is the success that causes my actions to change).